As the dust settles - RWC debrief

[Paddington Bear]

Leaving a trail of regrets


Scotland. The draw was cruel but they barely fired a shot and seemed to have mentally accepted their fate long before it was mathematically confirmed.

I'm not sure about that, Scotland did exactly as expected, dished out the required bullying of the T2 teams in the group and lost to the two teams especially equipped to dish out the bullying to us.
In the warm up games Scotland beat Italy handily, then struggled in the first half against a second string France before finally getting out of the changing rooms and going on the win comfortably in terms of the game. We then went on to lose by three points to full noise France in Saint-Ettiene, but we were scoring tries.

Going back further to the 6N, we rather shot ourselves in the foot against France before getting duffed up by Ireland.

The team is what it is, flaky under pressure but fun to watch when it clicks.

Do we regret doing exactly as expected? I don't particularly regret it, I'd rather we can find a way to beat those teams like South Africa and Ireland for sure, but do so playing the expansive style that we have.

I get where you’re coming from, but surely you expected more in defeat, particularly to Ireland? That’s a side who’s ceiling is far higher than a side pulling off all their starters 45 mins in. It’s why I think quite genuinely they arrived in France already knowing their departure date.

[Muttonbird]

Of all the asterisks, this asterisk is the biggest.

[Biffer]

With a 24 team World Cup next time out, maybe broadcasters will realise that the excitement in the pool games shouldn't be NZ vs Tonga. It's about Portugal vs Samoa or Namibia vs Canada.

[Tichtheid]

Leaving a trail of regrets


Scotland. The draw was cruel but they barely fired a shot and seemed to have mentally accepted their fate long before it was mathematically confirmed.

I'm not sure about that, Scotland did exactly as expected, dished out the required bullying of the T2 teams in the group and lost to the two teams especially equipped to dish out the bullying to us.
In the warm up games Scotland beat Italy handily, then struggled in the first half against a second string France before finally getting out of the changing rooms and going on the win comfortably in terms of the game. We then went on to lose by three points to full noise France in Saint-Ettiene, but we were scoring tries.

Going back further to the 6N, we rather shot ourselves in the foot against France before getting duffed up by Ireland.

The team is what it is, flaky under pressure but fun to watch when it clicks.

Do we regret doing exactly as expected? I don't particularly regret it, I'd rather we can find a way to beat those teams like South Africa and Ireland for sure, but do so playing the expansive style that we have.

I get where you’re coming from, but surely you expected more in defeat, particularly to Ireland? That’s a side who’s ceiling is far higher than a side pulling off all their starters 45 mins in. It’s why I think quite genuinely they arrived in France already knowing their departure date.

Our defence was really poor against Ireland, that was part us and part Ireland. The Irish were really hitting their straps in the pool stages, beating South Africa too.
The fixture over the last 23 years directly reflects how The IRFU and the SRU have dealt with the game going open - in the 80s and 90s it felt like Ireland couldn’t beat us, since then the reverse is true.

Yes I had hoped for more in defeat to Ireland but I didn’t really expect anything else, there were a few rub of the green moments that went against us but ultimately it was our defence that let us down immediately after those moments.
Hope and expectation are two very different things in sport.

[OomStruisbaai]

I'm not sure about that, Scotland did exactly as expected, dished out the required bullying of the T2 teams in the group and lost to the two teams especially equipped to dish out the bullying to us.
In the warm up games Scotland beat Italy handily, then struggled in the first half against a second string France before finally getting out of the changing rooms and going on the win comfortably in terms of the game. We then went on to lose by three points to full noise France in Saint-Ettiene, but we were scoring tries.

Going back further to the 6N, we rather shot ourselves in the foot against France before getting duffed up by Ireland.

The team is what it is, flaky under pressure but fun to watch when it clicks.

Do we regret doing exactly as expected? I don't particularly regret it, I'd rather we can find a way to beat those teams like South Africa and Ireland for sure, but do so playing the expansive style that we have.

I get where you’re coming from, but surely you expected more in defeat, particularly to Ireland? That’s a side who’s ceiling is far higher than a side pulling off all their starters 45 mins in. It’s why I think quite genuinely they arrived in France already knowing their departure date.

Our defence was really poor against Ireland, that was part us and part Ireland. The Irish were really hitting their straps in the pool stages, beating South Africa too.
The fixture over the last 23 years directly reflects how The IRFU and the SRU have dealt with the game going open - in the 80s and 90s it felt like Ireland couldn’t beat us, since then the reverse is true.

Yes I had hoped for more in defeat to Ireland but I didn’t really expect anything else, there were a few rub of the green moments that went against us but ultimately it was our defence that let us down immediately after those moments.
Hope and expectation are two very different things in sport.

You will be fucked without your inbreds from the highveld.

[Tichtheid]

I get where you’re coming from, but surely you expected more in defeat, particularly to Ireland? That’s a side who’s ceiling is far higher than a side pulling off all their starters 45 mins in. It’s why I think quite genuinely they arrived in France already knowing their departure date.

Our defence was really poor against Ireland, that was part us and part Ireland. The Irish were really hitting their straps in the pool stages, beating South Africa too.
The fixture over the last 23 years directly reflects how The IRFU and the SRU have dealt with the game going open - in the 80s and 90s it felt like Ireland couldn’t beat us, since then the reverse is true.

Yes I had hoped for more in defeat to Ireland but I didn’t really expect anything else, there were a few rub of the green moments that went against us but ultimately it was our defence that let us down immediately after those moments.
Hope and expectation are two very different things in sport.

You will be fucked without your inbreds from the highveld.

Scotland has provided an opportunity to players considered surplus to requirements in SA - WP Nel for example has had an 11 year, 189 cap career with Edinburgh and has represented the country he chose to live in 61 times, that's a terrific career and it's not over yet, he is signed until next summer when he'll be approaching 38 years old.
Pierre Schoeman is probably the most popular player with Edinburgh fans and he's a couple of games off his 100th cap

Duhan van der Merwe scored the World Rugby Try of the Year a few months ago, Kyle Steyn has been a big player for us this year.

There are Scots-born replacements coming up behind, though we don't have anyone else like Duhan

[OomStruisbaai]

Our defence was really poor against Ireland, that was part us and part Ireland. The Irish were really hitting their straps in the pool stages, beating South Africa too.
The fixture over the last 23 years directly reflects how The IRFU and the SRU have dealt with the game going open - in the 80s and 90s it felt like Ireland couldn’t beat us, since then the reverse is true.

Yes I had hoped for more in defeat to Ireland but I didn’t really expect anything else, there were a few rub of the green moments that went against us but ultimately it was our defence that let us down immediately after those moments.
Hope and expectation are two very different things in sport.

You will be fucked without your inbreds from the highveld.

Scotland has provided an opportunity to players considered surplus to requirements in SA - WP Nel for example has had an 11 year, 189 cap career with Edinburgh and has represented the country he chose to live in 61 times, that's a terrific career and it's not over yet, he is signed until next summer when he'll be approaching 38 years old.
Pierre Schoeman is probably the most popular player with Edinburgh fans and he's a couple of games off his 100th cap

Duhan van der Merwe scored the World Rugby Try of the Year a few months ago, Kyle Steyn has been a big player for us this year.

There are Scots-born replacements coming up behind, though we don't have anyone else like Duhan

According to you they are inbreds. What a kant you are. Pierre Schoeman who is a born and inbred Gautenger mom would stole your skirt.

[Tichtheid]

You will be fucked without your inbreds from the highveld.

Scotland has provided an opportunity to players considered surplus to requirements in SA - WP Nel for example has had an 11 year, 189 cap career with Edinburgh and has represented the country he chose to live in 61 times, that's a terrific career and it's not over yet, he is signed until next summer when he'll be approaching 38 years old.
Pierre Schoeman is probably the most popular player with Edinburgh fans and he's a couple of games off his 100th cap

Duhan van der Merwe scored the World Rugby Try of the Year a few months ago, Kyle Steyn has been a big player for us this year.

There are Scots-born replacements coming up behind, though we don't have anyone else like Duhan

According to you they are inbreds. What a kant you are. Pierre Schoeman who is a born and inbred Gautenger mom would stole your skirt.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

[OomStruisbaai]

Scotland has provided an opportunity to players considered surplus to requirements in SA - WP Nel for example has had an 11 year, 189 cap career with Edinburgh and has represented the country he chose to live in 61 times, that's a terrific career and it's not over yet, he is signed until next summer when he'll be approaching 38 years old.
Pierre Schoeman is probably the most popular player with Edinburgh fans and he's a couple of games off his 100th cap

Duhan van der Merwe scored the World Rugby Try of the Year a few months ago, Kyle Steyn has been a big player for us this year.

There are Scots-born replacements coming up behind, though we don't have anyone else like Duhan

According to you they are inbreds. What a kant you are. Pierre Schoeman who is a born and inbred Gautenger mom would stole your skirt.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

my mistake its Biffer Doos.

[Tichtheid]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I was just reminded of a guy who played with our team in Edinburgh (this was before professional rugby so it wasn't the Edinburgh side that is there now, it was a club in the city)

https://www.rugbycards.co.za/player/Andrew-Blakeway

He had a real taste for port wine.

There was a long history of players coming from overseas to play in Scotland in the amateur days, particularly Kiwis, Aussies and South Africans who would come and play in the Scottish Borders whilst working on local farms.

[Sards]

Scotland has provided an opportunity to players considered surplus to requirements in SA - WP Nel for example has had an 11 year, 189 cap career with Edinburgh and has represented the country he chose to live in 61 times, that's a terrific career and it's not over yet, he is signed until next summer when he'll be approaching 38 years old.
Pierre Schoeman is probably the most popular player with Edinburgh fans and he's a couple of games off his 100th cap

Duhan van der Merwe scored the World Rugby Try of the Year a few months ago, Kyle Steyn has been a big player for us this year.

There are Scots-born replacements coming up behind, though we don't have anyone else like Duhan

I think Scotland is doing very well.

[Openside]

Only France and England whinged about the refereeing?
Do fuck off of you one eyed twat

It was almost unbearable.
Talking as a Springbok supporter. The RWC holders and World number 1 ranked team

Not enough videos or family death threats for you?

[Uncle fester]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I was just reminded of a guy who played with our team in Edinburgh (this was before professional rugby so it wasn't the Edinburgh side that is there now, it was a club in the city)

https://www.rugbycards.co.za/player/Andrew-Blakeway

He had a real taste for port wine.

There was a long history of players coming from overseas to play in Scotland in the amateur days, particularly Kiwis, Aussies and South Africans who would come and play in the Scottish Borders whilst working on local farms.

Thread Scottished (or glassed maybe)

[Enzedder]

I just want to play against England at the moment.

Given that in our last match up you managed to blow a 19 point lead in 8 minutes against a side that had just lost to an undercooked Argentina, had morale at all time lows and sporting a 10/12 combo that struggled to manage a 6N try a game, I for one say bring it on

Absolutely correct. My point being that we don't play them enough because $$$ and I love the rivalry.

Also, no Pommy officials which helps the spectacle.

[derriz]

I'm not sure about that, Scotland did exactly as expected, dished out the required bullying of the T2 teams in the group and lost to the two teams especially equipped to dish out the bullying to us.
In the warm up games Scotland beat Italy handily, then struggled in the first half against a second string France before finally getting out of the changing rooms and going on the win comfortably in terms of the game. We then went on to lose by three points to full noise France in Saint-Ettiene, but we were scoring tries.

Going back further to the 6N, we rather shot ourselves in the foot against France before getting duffed up by Ireland.

The team is what it is, flaky under pressure but fun to watch when it clicks.

Do we regret doing exactly as expected? I don't particularly regret it, I'd rather we can find a way to beat those teams like South Africa and Ireland for sure, but do so playing the expansive style that we have.

Yeah, I don't think either Scotland or Ireland belong in the "trail of regrets" category, maybe not even France. All victims of a horrendous draw but played pretty much the level expected - mostly high-quality high-skilled rugby. For Ireland, I don't think there's any shame in playing both finalists and losing to one while keeping up high standards of play throughout. Nor do I see why England or Argentina would be "pretty pleased". Both played painful-to-watch mistake-ridden rugby - and despite their finishing positions being flattered by an easy draw, if anything the world cup demonstrated that the gap in skills and strength between these 2 and the top 4 sides has widened.

If you look at France, NZ, SA and Ireland, in head-to-heads against each other, they all lost one game. SA just did it early in the group stages. Thems the breaks in a competition like this, no regrets.

[Gumboot]

If you look at France, NZ, SA and Ireland, in head-to-heads against each other, they all lost one game. SA just did it early in the group stages. Thems the breaks in a competition like this, no regrets.

Not just an early loss for SA - the ABs lost to France in the first game of the tournament.

[Paddington Bear]

I just want to play against England at the moment.

Given that in our last match up you managed to blow a 19 point lead in 8 minutes against a side that had just lost to an undercooked Argentina, had morale at all time lows and sporting a 10/12 combo that struggled to manage a 6N try a game, I for one say bring it on

Absolutely correct. My point being that we don't play them enough because $$$ and I love the rivalry.

Also, no Pommy officials which helps the spectacle.

Fwiw I like the fact we play each other infrequently, makes it something more to look forward to

[Uncle fester]

If you look at France, NZ, SA and Ireland, in head-to-heads against each other, they all lost one game. SA just did it early in the group stages. Thems the breaks in a competition like this, no regrets.

Not just an early loss for SA - the ABs lost to France in the first game of the tournament.

So essentially anybody in the top 4 can beat any of the others. It's the timing that's critical.

[Sards]

If you look at France, NZ, SA and Ireland, in head-to-heads against each other, they all lost one game. SA just did it early in the group stages. Thems the breaks in a competition like this, no regrets.

Not just an early loss for SA - the ABs lost to France in the first game of the tournament.

So essentially anybody in the top 4 can beat any of the others. It's the timing that's critical.

Some teams are just better at finals than others.

[Guy Smiley]

Not just an early loss for SA - the ABs lost to France in the first game of the tournament.

So essentially anybody in the top 4 can beat any of the others. It's the timing that's critical.

Some teams are just better at finals than others.

You paranoid Saffa flogs and your manly man chest beating over a game... you very nearly lost to a 14 man ABs side. You rode your luck... the point is that all the top 4 sides can beat the other 3 on any given day, which is a bloody good thing as it's been a very long time since that was the case. In every game, small things go your way or against you and they can be the difference at the end.

[Gumboot]

Some teams are just better at finals than others.

Objectively, that's quite true as of now. After all, even though NZ won the inaugural RWC in '87, Australia won it twice before we did. So did SA. Then we wrested ascendency back with consecutive wins by McCaw's great sides, only to see the Boks do the same under Kolisi. Fair to say we've under-achieved on the highest stage, certainly compared to SA.

Enjoy your reign while it lasts, Saffas. I'm quietly confident about our prospects for '27, with Razor taking charge, and a stack of great young talent coming through.

[OomStruisbaai]

That's why I don't like the WC tournament. Way to much importance.

We need a long tour to NZ in June next year.

Both countries will make a fortune out of it.

[Gumboot]

That's why I don't like the WC tournament. Way to much importance.

We need a long tour to NZ in June next year.

Both countries will make a fortune out of it.

Absolutely, the re-introduction of long tours with mid-week games against each nation's provinces would be bloody awesome.

[mat the expat]

I watched one game of this RWC - and only because I was in England for it

I've totally gone off the current game. It's boring as hell

[Sards]

You paranoid Saffa flogs and your manly man chest beating over a game... you very nearly lost to a 14 man ABs side. You rode your luck... the point is that all the top 4 sides can beat the other 3 on any given day, which is a bloody good thing as it's been a very long time since that was the case. In every game, small things go your way or against you and they can be the difference at the end.

And there I thought you were handling this so well.........shame

[Gumboot]

@mat

Yep, most of what we're served up these days is dull as ditchwater coated in water breaks and Sweet Caroline. There's still the odd thriller, but it feels like they're becoming fewer and farther apart by the year. On a weekly basis, I find the NFL much more entertaining tbh. I used to hate all the breaks, but now rugby's hardly any different, so the better spectacle wins. And compared to most other contact sports, rugby is losing big time.

[OomStruisbaai]

You paranoid Saffa flogs and your manly man chest beating over a game... you very nearly lost to a 14 man ABs side. You rode your luck... the point is that all the top 4 sides can beat the other 3 on any given day, which is a bloody good thing as it's been a very long time since that was the case. In every game, small things go your way or against you and they can be the difference at the end.

And there I thought you were handling this so well.........shame

Its Kanterbury talk. Looking forward to their excuses when a Razor coach All Black team lose.

[OomStruisbaai]

Enjoy your reign while it lasts, Saffas. I'm quietly confident about our prospects for '27, with Razor taking charge, and a stack of great young talent coming through.

I think you got deeper worries. The NPC and Soup is far from the products compare to the past and your u20s is totally out of touch since many moons ago.

The future team to watch is France.

But hey lets take it day by day, as long as Rassie is in charge of the Springboks we will be good.

[Gumboot]

I think you got deeper worries.

Yes, but right now I'm going with a glass half full until proven otherwise.

After everything we've been subjected to in recent years, we still made the final and came damn close. No shame in that.

Can't wait to meet again!

[OomStruisbaai]

I think you got deeper worries.

Yes, but right now I'm going with a glass half full until proven otherwise.

After everything we've been subjected to in recent years, we still made the final and came damn close. No shame in that.

Can't wait to meet again!

Like I posted before the final. Losing to the All Blacks is OK. We can take that on the chin. Hope your glass is full now.

[Gumboot]

It's the greatest rivalry in rugby.

A return to meaningful tours would be massive. I'd get up at stupid a.m. to watch the ABs vs Boland. The Saders vs the Lions? Not a chance.

[Gumboot]

Having said that, I didn't bother with the last test of the most recent Lions series. Sorry, but that series was as ugly as test rugby gets. I hope.

[boere wors]

Having said that, I didn't bother with the last test of the most recent Lions series. Sorry, but that series was as ugly as test rugby gets. I hope.

Of course that Lions Series was atrocious. Played in the height of covid. Empty stadiums. Half the bok squad ill the week before the first test. It should never have taken place.

[Paddington Bear]

Having said that, I didn't bother with the last test of the most recent Lions series. Sorry, but that series was as ugly as test rugby gets. I hope.

Of course that Lions Series was atrocious. Played in the height of covid. Empty stadiums. Half the bok squad ill the week before the first test. It should never have taken place.

100%. And the next one could be one sided enough to finish off the concept

[ASMO]

It says something that from an entire RWC, there were probably about 4 games (and i don't include the final) that really were of the highest quality and would have been worth the entry fee.

Any non rugby person watching that RWC would likely walk away not wanting to watch another game...if we want to grow the sport and bring more money in, some drastic changes need to happen.

It all starts at the top, the governing bodies need a complete overhaul, most of the old boy types put out to pasture, they are killing the game.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

It says something that from an entire RWC, there were probably about 4 games (and i don't include the final) that really were of the highest quality and would have been worth the entry fee.

Any non rugby person watching that RWC would likely walk away not wanting to watch another game...if we want to grow the sport and bring more money in, some drastic changes need to happen.

It all starts at the top, the governing bodies need a complete overhaul, most of the old boy types put out to pasture, they are killing the game.

This popped up on an Aussie humour site. It's equally applicable to England

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncateg ... art-trish/

[Gumboot]

ASMO

Yep, so much this. Professional sport is moving ahead at such a pace that rugby risks being left behind unless they make drastic changes to better the game. Now.

[sockwithaticket]

It says something that from an entire RWC, there were probably about 4 games (and i don't include the final) that really were of the highest quality and would have been worth the entry fee.

Any non rugby person watching that RWC would likely walk away not wanting to watch another game...if we want to grow the sport and bring more money in, some drastic changes need to happen.

It all starts at the top, the governing bodies need a complete overhaul, most of the old boy types put out to pasture, they are killing the game.

"Winning is all that matters" is a sentiment I see all too frequently. You only have the privilege of thinking that way if your sport is thriving regardless. Rugby isn't.

Teams, coaches and players seem to forget that they're part of the entertainment industry and too often they're failing to entertain.

National teams are essentially billboards for the sport. From an England perspective ours has been a mass of grey for a whole world cup cycle. I can't imagine anyone not already into rugby has watched us over the last four years, even when we won the shit 2020 Six Nations, and thought "I'll have some more of that". That's a core failing. The national team should be fun to watch, not a test of one's own masochism.

[OomStruisbaai]

Rugby the fastest growing sport in Africa. All this thanks to the boring Springbok gameplan and Kolisi
https://e-playafrica.com/rugby-the-spor ... 20included

Rugby is regarded as the fastest growing sport in Africa, despite the fact that there are some people who are not aware that the sport is played in their country, especially Nigeria. As a sport, it does not command the same popularity as football and basketball do in the country.

In the year 2002, only six African countries had taken part in continental and global showcase in the sport, including South Africa, Morocco, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, and Ivory Coast. More than 15 years later, the growth of the sport in the continent has increased by 84 percent, with Rugby Africa having 42 members in the union, with Nigeria included.

Countries that depicted the highest and fastest growth:
• Nigeria
• Kenya
• Madagascar
• South Africa
• Namibia
• Mauritius
With these details it is a clear indication of the fact that there is a growing passion of the sport in Africa.

[Tilly Orifice]

It says something that from an entire RWC, there were probably about 4 games (and i don't include the final) that really were of the highest quality and would have been worth the entry fee.

Any non rugby person watching that RWC would likely walk away not wanting to watch another game...if we want to grow the sport and bring more money in, some drastic changes need to happen.

It all starts at the top, the governing bodies need a complete overhaul, most of the old boy types put out to pasture, they are killing the game.

"Winning is all that matters" is a sentiment I see all too frequently. You only have the privilege of thinking that way if your sport is thriving regardless. Rugby isn't.

Teams, coaches and players seem to forget that they're part of the entertainment industry and too often they're failing to entertain.

National teams are essentially billboards for the sport. From an England perspective ours has been a mass of grey for a whole world cup cycle. I can't imagine anyone not already into rugby has watched us over the last four years, even when we won the shit 2020 Six Nations, and thought "I'll have some more of that". That's a core failing. The national team should be fun to watch, not a test of one's own masochism.

In my limited experience of watching rugby with people who are new to the sport, they don't make these sort of complaints. Rather they are more likely to enjoy a tight tough game, which this world Cup provided several of.