The Official English Rugby Thread

[SaintK]

Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.

Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.

I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).

Ford been playing very well for Sale
Smith not so much for Quins
Liking the way Fin Smith is running the Saints back line again this season
All depends on the game plan Borthwick's going to play

[Raggs]

Ford, Smith and Smith in the squad?

Need to sort out the midfield without Farrell.

Sucks that he and his family have received abuse.

[Paddington Bear]

Absolutely did not see that coming.

No doubt his family have taken a pasting from keyboard warriors

Quite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.
Sarries will delighted mind you.

Yep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessary

[inactionman]

Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.

Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.

I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).

I'd think it would be Ford, much as I rate Smith. I'd not be too unhappy either way.

I take the point about giving Smith some time at 10, however we're at the start of a 4 year WC cycle and there's a fair few 6Ns to compete in first. Ford would only be 34 come the next WC so should still be in the mix.

[sockwithaticket]

Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.

Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.

I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).

Ford will be 34 at the next world cup. Certainly that's getting on, but not an unselectable age, particularly for a fly half.

I don't think Borthwick will select Smith at 10 unless left without other viable choices.

[inactionman]

I'm sure the crap he got on media (press and social) hasn't helped, but I'm hoping this is more just a chance to step back for a bit after many, many years of high-intensity rugby.

He's 32 and has been doing this for, what, 12 years or so, including through the beastings Eddie Jones handed out. I'd think a year or two out and maybe a return nearer the next WC (if he plans on reaching it? He'll be 36) would make sense.

[Paddington Bear]

Anyone whos directly abusing him or his family is well over the mark obviously.

Think its ok to criticise his performance and selection online though.

Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though

[Paddington Bear]

Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.

Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.

I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).

30 caps for England now, not so much blooding as increasingly blind hope at this stage

[tc27]

Anyone whos directly abusing him or his family is well over the mark obviously.

Think its ok to criticise his performance and selection online though.

Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though

.

Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.

[Paddington Bear]

Anyone whos directly abusing him or his family is well over the mark obviously.

Think its ok to criticise his performance and selection online though.

Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though

.

Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.

Yeah sport is in a funny space full stop on this. I remember Jonny Bairstow and the media hitting the roof when he got called fat by Aussie fans in the last away Ashes. He was/is fat! He’s a pro sportsman! Taking some shit, particularly at the games, is part and parcel of the job.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.

Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.

I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).

30 caps for England now, not so much blooding as increasingly blind hope at this stage

A bit like Farrell then, only he's up to 100 and something caps of blind hope he'll stop being a pumpkin. Positives to both for sure, but plenty that hasn't worked, and really too much that hasn't worked

[Slick]

Anyone whos directly abusing him or his family is well over the mark obviously.

Think its ok to criticise his performance and selection online though.

Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though

.

Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.

Agree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.

On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.

Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though

.

Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.

Agree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.

On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.

Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby

Frankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugby

Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.

[Line6 HXFX]

Rugby is resenta'tainment, just like the shit the daily mail churns out, but much much worse as at least they are purported to have some professional journalistic standards..sports journalists are completely unrestrained...and then you all lose your knickers when it all turns nasty and a bit "reactionary"?

No wonder the players are fucking bored of it.

[Slick]

.

Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.

Agree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.

On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.

Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby

Frankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugby

Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.

Nah it's very obvious and snarly

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Agree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.

On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.

Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby

Frankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugby

Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.

Nah it's very obvious and snarly

Very likely it's a ronseal moment, thus it would seem odd in life. But some people do use the word somewhat differently, mind the person saying to Oliver's baby probably didn't have aggression in their voice, and my guess is the person shouting at Farrell and his child did.

My own standards would be I cannot see why it's acceptable to shout even just wanker at the referee or a player, people are there with their kids and it's not appropriate even if you are happy with some of the more colourful turns of phrase. Rubbish or wrong would seem to be apt if you must shout a negative

[Paddington Bear]

Frankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugby

Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.

Nah it's very obvious and snarly

Very likely it's a ronseal moment, thus it would seem odd in life. But some people do use the word somewhat differently, mind the person saying to Oliver's baby probably didn't have aggression in their voice, and my guess is the person shouting at Farrell and his child did.

My own standards would be I cannot see why it's acceptable to shout even just wanker at the referee or a player, people are there with their kids and it's not appropriate even if you are happy with some of the more colourful turns of phrase. Rubbish or wrong would seem to be apt if you must shout a negative

Also a massive difference to saying something to a mate and yelling something at someone. It’s definitely a cultural difference between us and the States that we tend to insult our mates

[petej]

Absolutely did not see that coming.

No doubt his family have taken a pasting from keyboard warriors

Quite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.
Sarries will delighted mind you.

Yep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessary

I do wonder how much of this is to actually stop him from being selected when out of form and not playing as well as others?

I don't think Borthwick or Jones have done him any favours by selecting him regardless of form or how the team was playing without him over the last 4 years. Giving him the captaincy was always a mistake.

[SaintK]

Quite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.
Sarries will delighted mind you.

Yep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessary

I do wonder how much of this is to actually stop him from being selected when out of form and not playing as well as others?

I don't think Borthwick or Jones have done him any favours by selecting him regardless of form or how the team was playing without him over the last 4 years. Giving him the captaincy was always a mistake.

What?

[Biffer]

Good to see McCall coming out and saying today that this started in the mainstream media. The same guys who are clutching their pearls and going ‘oohhhhhhh, damn that social media’ in the last couple of days.

[Tichtheid]

Sale lucky to not be down to 13 here, Hill was stupid there.

Quins taking full advantage

[Oxbow]

Jonny Hill still as dumb as ever, should have got at least a yellow for that.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Good to see McCall coming out and saying today that this started in the mainstream media. The same guys who are clutching their pearls and going ‘oohhhhhhh, damn that social media’ in the last couple of days.

He should give examples, or it just sounds like you can't criticise performance and touch the precious one. Which isn't to say some writes haven't gone OTT, I can't say I read most of them. Because he has all too often stank the place out in some very limited England performances, even allowing for he does offer a good number of positives

[SaintK]

Sale lucky to not be down to 13 here, Hill was stupid there.

Quins taking full advantage

Quins well worth the win.
Smith was very good, particularly the accuracy of his kicking to the backfield giving them excellent field posotion. Quins forwards fully turned up for a change and laid a very solid platform.
That's the second time this season that Sale have failed to turn up after long trips South

[Paddington Bear]

Quite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.
Sarries will delighted mind you.

Yep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessary

I do wonder how much of this is to actually stop him from being selected when out of form and not playing as well as others?

I don't think Borthwick or Jones have done him any favours by selecting him regardless of form or how the team was playing without him over the last 4 years. Giving him the captaincy was always a mistake.

He led the side well in France and grew into the role.

Just caught the game from last night. Best Quins have played for ages. Hill really is a prat. Now off to freeze my bollocks off in Barnet

[sockwithaticket]

Glaws are trash. Getting pumped by a mediocre Bristol team.

[SaintK]

Glaws are trash. Getting pumped by a mediocre Bristol team.

Glaws playing as if they've been on the piss all week. Bar a couple of handling errors Bristol would have had 40 at half time

[Stranger]

Glaws look awful

[Paddington Bear]

Gloucester now attacking nicely

[Paddington Bear]

Phenomenal shithousery that

[SaintK]

Saints............................yay!!!
New defence coach has made a significant difference

[Oxbow]

Out all afternoon so missed this, great result though.

[Paddington Bear]

Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap

[Ovals]

Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap

Lawes was immense - really going to miss him in an England shirt - tough to find a replacement close to his quality.

Cracking game though and well deserved win for the Saints - they are head and shoulders improved from last season.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap

Lawes was immense - really going to miss him in an England shirt - tough to find a replacement close to his quality.

Cracking game though and well deserved win for the Saints - they are head and shoulders improved from last season.

Tend to feel for England he's one of those you'd select for the individual but maybe not select for the team if he's being picked at flanker, the old best players vs best team argument. That said he's hardly the only English flanker with some stilted ideas of how to go about supporting play on attack.

[SaintK]

Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap

Lawes was immense - really going to miss him in an England shirt - tough to find a replacement close to his quality.

Cracking game though and well deserved win for the Saints - they are head and shoulders improved from last season.

Tend to feel for England he's one of those you'd select for the individual but maybe not select for the team if he's being picked at flanker, the old best players vs best team argument. That said he's hardly the only English flanker with some stilted ideas of how to go about supporting play on attack.

Eh?
You've not watched him recently then?

[sockwithaticket]

I think I get what he's saying, as good as Lawes has been in the latter stages of his career, he's still relatively slow and we haven't often picked a back row to accommodate that. That said, singling Lawes out is unfair, the whole England team has been crap at supporting attacking breakdowns and linebreaks for a long time. We seemingly don't place much value on it, which is wild.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

it makes more sense if you want to 'play' as we recently did against SA, which is to say don't have any attack and then you have no phases to support

and no, it's not all on Lawes, and if one didn't pick Lawes that does weaken the lineout. still, I largely pick a side (want to see a side) based on how it can attack, and I can get everything I like about Lawes from lock and get better support play picking someone else on the flank

[Tichtheid]

Luc Smith, younger brother of Marcus, scores a belter

[Margin__Walker]

Looks like Arundell's taken himself out of the equation as far as England goes.

Pretty impressive move from him if this turns out to be true. Doesn't sound like a money issue going off the Times article in the week. Seems to be genuinely enjoying playing rugby over there. Good luck to him as I think it will be genuinely good for him as a player. England will be fine without him. There are always decent outside backs around if Borthwick fancies using them in a more conventional way.