Alien television series - here we go

[Jethro]

“There are some big surprises in store for the audience. Alien takes place before Ripley. It’s the first story that takes place in the Alien franchise on Earth. So, it takes place on our planet. Right near the end of this century we’re in — so 70-odd years from now." - TV show creator Noah Hawley

A gold star to anyone who can point out why Hawley knows shite about this franchise, and hence why I have zero belief that we are about to see something decent

So how's the new movie coming along, the artwork was looking cool.

[Ymx]

Definitely please pop this in the tv series thread, so I don’t forget it.

[Niegs]

I don't remember much of the first film ... I thought it was something no one had ever seen / heard of before? Did Paul Reiser's shady corporate character or something in the later films hint at contact much earlier?

Or maybe they just make it up and screw with things like the new Star Treks? Guessing it'll also be a typical American series explaining that shady covered-up origins bit, extending to 10 episodes of not much happening with a cliffhanger reveal at the end of the 10th?

[Tilly Orifice]

I don't remember much of the first film ... I thought it was something no one had ever seen / heard of before? Did Paul Reiser's shady corporate character or something in the later films hint at contact much earlier?

Or maybe they just make it up and screw with things like the new Star Treks? Guessing it'll also be a typical American series explaining that shady covered-up origins bit, extending to 10 episodes of not much happening with a cliffhanger reveal at the end of the 10th?

As far as I can recall, that's about right. You could infer from the first film that the thing was previously unknown, subsequent films increasingly developed a bullshit backstory in which it becomes clear that the company was already aware of the organism, amnd much much more garbage.

[Brazil]

I don't remember much of the first film ... I thought it was something no one had ever seen / heard of before? Did Paul Reiser's shady corporate character or something in the later films hint at contact much earlier?

Or maybe they just make it up and screw with things like the new Star Treks? Guessing it'll also be a typical American series explaining that shady covered-up origins bit, extending to 10 episodes of not much happening with a cliffhanger reveal at the end of the 10th?

As far as I can recall, that's about right. You could infer from the first film that the thing was previously unknown, subsequent films increasingly developed a bullshit backstory in which it becomes clear that the company was already aware of the organism, amnd much much more garbage.

The company does know about the alien, as Ash makes clear to Ripley just before he tries to kill her. The crew are deliberately set up to bring it back. That doesn't quite explain why the company subsequently forgets about it in the intervening fifty years between Alien and Aliens, but it's clear from the film that they and Ash habe prior knowledge and are looking for it.

On the TV series, I'm not confident, but Noah Hawley is very good at what he does so maybe it'll be a surprise. Just hope he sticks to Alien and Aliens, and doesn't have anything to do with Prometheus or Covenant which, lest we forget, are absolute unforgivable shit.

[Tilly Orifice]

I don't remember much of the first film ... I thought it was something no one had ever seen / heard of before? Did Paul Reiser's shady corporate character or something in the later films hint at contact much earlier?

Or maybe they just make it up and screw with things like the new Star Treks? Guessing it'll also be a typical American series explaining that shady covered-up origins bit, extending to 10 episodes of not much happening with a cliffhanger reveal at the end of the 10th?

As far as I can recall, that's about right. You could infer from the first film that the thing was previously unknown, subsequent films increasingly developed a bullshit backstory in which it becomes clear that the company was already aware of the organism, amnd much much more garbage.

The company does know about the alien, as Ash makes clear to Ripley just before he tries to kill her. The crew are deliberately set up to bring it back. That doesn't quite explain why the company subsequently forgets about it in the intervening fifty years between Alien and Aliens, but it's clear from the film that they and Ash habe prior knowledge and are looking for it.

On the TV series, I'm not confident, but Noah Hawley is very good at what he does so maybe it'll be a surprise. Just hope he sticks to Alien and Aliens, and doesn't have anything to do with Prometheus or Covenant which, lest we forget, are absolute unforgivable shit.

Ah, fair enough I missed that. I thought it was just opportunism.

[yermum]

Priority one — Ensure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable.

Special order 937

[PornDog]

I always thought they stumbled across it by accident, and then realising what they had stumbled across, Ash/Corporate decided that it was worth more than the crew.

[Brazil]

I always thought they stumbled across it by accident, and then realising what they had stumbled across, Ash/Corporate decided that it was worth more than the crew.

That's undermined by Ash explaining how perfect it is, which suggests prior knowledge, along with stopping parker killing it when he has the chance. Though I suppose it's a possibility.

[Jethro]

I always thought they stumbled across it by accident, and then realising what they had stumbled across, Ash/Corporate decided that it was worth more than the crew.

That's undermined by Ash explaining how perfect it is, which suggests prior knowledge, along with stopping parker killing it when he has the chance. Though I suppose it's a possibility.

In either the extended cut of the movie or the novel, they mention that the original science office was replaced by Ash just prior to the Nostromo's final flight - food for thought.

No one picked up on "the franchise has never been to Earth before" as being completely delusional. Two movies set on Earth, AvP and Avp2 (neither of which is recommended though AvP is growing on me). Not even going to mention the expanded universe.

Anywise, for those of us Downunder looks to be dropping on Disney+, cause everyone's got that right.

[lemonhead]

I always thought they stumbled across it by accident, and then realising what they had stumbled across, Ash/Corporate decided that it was worth more than the crew.

My take as well, in film it comes across as more opportunistic. Mother evidently has consistent communication with the Company back on earth and they would've had the means and time enough to decipher part or all of the transmission.

If not, surely the execs would've been better served by sending a dedicated expedition to recover a specimen rather than leaving so much to chance. There is the question of order 937 and how Ash receives it but if pre-voyage, surely he'd have been instructed to simply murder all the remaining crew to protect their investment once Kane becomes host.

[Raggs]

I always thought they stumbled across it by accident, and then realising what they had stumbled across, Ash/Corporate decided that it was worth more than the crew.

My take as well. Mother evidently has consistent communication with the Company back on earth and they would've had the means and time enough to decipher part or all of the transmission.

If not, surely the execs would've been better served by sending a dedicated expedition to recover a specimen rather than leaving so much to chance. There is the question of order 937 and how Ash receives it but if pre-voyage, surely he'd have been instructed to simply murder all the remaining crew to protect their investment once Kane becomes host.

Putting a synthetic crewmember on board at the last minute, who could be easily controlled, but would be immune to facehuggers, seems like a fairly large coincidence. Suggests to me that at the very least, the idea that the corporation knew what was on the planet, should be seriously entertained even if not taken as gospel.

[lemonhead]

Entertained for sure, that's the one single reason it's plausible. Unless it's company policy to always have a synthetic on board.

It's not clear and like all brilliant films, heavily open to interpretation but Ash's role feels more like an observer throughout. His admiration of the creature slowly earned by experiencing it take out the crew.

Let's be fair, Dallas could well have succeeded in torching the fecker or driving it to the airlock and Ash is the one who suggests using flamethrowers. If Lambert hadn't panicked it'd be a much shorter film.

[lemonhead]

* No doubt with a post credits scene of Ash dumping a sack of half defrosted facehugger corpse on the front desk at Company HQ.

"Get Mr Weyland on the phone - and clear his diary"

[PornDog]

I always thought they stumbled across it by accident, and then realising what they had stumbled across, Ash/Corporate decided that it was worth more than the crew.

My take as well. Mother evidently has consistent communication with the Company back on earth and they would've had the means and time enough to decipher part or all of the transmission.

If not, surely the execs would've been better served by sending a dedicated expedition to recover a specimen rather than leaving so much to chance. There is the question of order 937 and how Ash receives it but if pre-voyage, surely he'd have been instructed to simply murder all the remaining crew to protect their investment once Kane becomes host.

Putting a synthetic crewmember on board at the last minute, who could be easily controlled, but would be immune to facehuggers, seems like a fairly large coincidence. Suggests to me that at the very least, the idea that the corporation knew what was on the planet, should be seriously entertained even if not taken as gospel.

I think you're assigning too much knowledge of the Alien to too many people here.

If they knew about it, certainly to that degree, why not send a crew there with a bunch of kidnapped "receptive vessels" (ala Alien Resurrection) to act as hosts and treat as a much more military styled mission. It's the only way to be sure!

[Raggs]

I think you're assigning too much knowledge of the Alien to too many people here.

If they knew about it, certainly to that degree, why not send a crew there with a bunch of kidnapped "receptive vessels" (ala Alien Resurrection) to act as hosts and treat as a much more military styled mission. It's the only way to be sure!

------------


What is special order 937 (this was the command Ripley gave to Mother):

Nostromo rerouted to new coordinates.
Investigate lifeform. Gather specimen.

Priority one
Insure return of organism for analysis.
All other considerations secondary.
Crew expendable.

-------------

The corporation, at the very least, knew about the xenomorph and it's importance before they sent the ship there, since the rerouting is part of order 937.

In Aliens, they state that the moon/rock etc has no indigenous life, which suggests the xenomorph was brought there deliberately.

[lemonhead]

Again, all open to interpretation. It took Ripley barely an hour or two to decipher part of the transmission. If Mother picked it up en route, relayed to Earth and got Special Order 937 back in response it all plays out the same way.

The fact it's straight up quoted as company policy means they surely look out for this sort of thing.

[PornDog]

Indeed, but it was always my understanding that this was an order issued in the wake of the Nostromo's discovery of the xenomorph, not in place before it "set sail".


It all makes much more sense to me in that context.

[Raggs]

Again, all open to interpretation. It took Ripley barely an hour or two to decipher part of the transmission. If Mother picked it up en route, relayed to Earth and got Special Order 937 back in response it all plays out the same way.

The fact it's straight up quoted as company policy means they surely look out for this sort of thing.

Happy to admit it's open to interpretation, which should mean we can interpret comfortably that the corp already knew? One thing though, is it established that they can communicate with the corporation or earth?

Every suggestion from the opening of the film is that they do not have contact with anyone. They attempt to make contact with earth, realising they're nowhere near, and never get a response. Suggesting they don't have instant comms. They can't contact the corporation either. They don't ask for instructions when they get the signal, they don't send out a signal for more assistance, they follow the protocols. It's not even a distress signal, it's a transmission of unknown origin that they're told to investigate. Surely if they had better comms, they would tell a science vessel to go there (or rescue).

All of which suggests that the corporation already knew about the signal, translated it, and wanted the specimen since 937 was already programmed in, rather than transmitted and received in such short time.

Of course, I could be wrong, and we might get indications of instant (or near to) comms later on.

At the very very least, there's plenty of evidence to suggest the Corp knew about it beforehand. More than enough to later establish that as canon, without trampling over a ton of prior evidence to the contrary.

[lemonhead]

For sure. Both are interesting ideas that don't destroy the film.

Though I do prefer that it was the Company reacting on the fly a bit more. If premeditated there is the fairly large question of why let such a prized military asset in the hands of a tugboat crew who naturally would try and kill it. Motives of short term expediency, cost savings and time - so no one else could claim it first - I can get behind. But if they already know then just send a dedicated ship and crew instead.

And Ash helping them hunt and kill it is entirely bizarre - my take on him is that he was programmed to carry the order out but had genuine sympathy for the crew, admiration for the alien and some very interesting feelings towards Ripley. Plus, by the letter he can still technically fulfil 937 by tendering the preserved facehugger, alive or dead. Any added internal conflict and giving him greater agency over the outcome is far more interesting.

[PornDog]

My reading, was always that there was delayed contact from corporate. Ash sent off his findings and continued to act in the best interests of the original mission and standing orders until he got his reply, when his orders changed.

Now it's a long time since I've watched it so maybe there is something in there to suggest that's not the case, but it was always how I figured it transpired.

[lemonhead]

There is also the question of what happens if the xenomorph is too successful and takes Ash out along with all the others. Does Mother simply park the Nostromo off Antarctica TC and keep an infested ship in orbit with no questions asked - what if someone escapes in the shuttle and gives the game away?

And why would the last surviving crew member not do exactly as Ripley did and blow ship and asset both to hell? Very risky. Cynical corporate opportunism works, meticulously ham fisted not so much.

And finally continuity with Aliens. If it's simply a 'bad call' you could easily see repercussions of the Nostromo incident getting someone fired back at head office and the whole shitshow buried in a filing cabinet for 50 years.

[Raggs]

There is also the question of what happens if the xenomorph is too successful and takes Ash out along with all the others. Does Mother park the Nostromo off Antarctica TC and keep an infested ship in orbit with no questions asked - what if someone escapes in the shuttle and gives the game away?

And why would the last surviving crew member not do exactly as Ripley did and blow ship and asset both to hell? Very risky.

Cynical corporate opportunism works, meticulously ham fisted not so much.

If Ash is killed, they probably assumed that no one else would have survived either? Or as you say, Mother just parks the ship regardless for pickup elsewhere.

If you send a dedicated mission there, you perhaps lose plausible deniability? You're not looking to keep anyone alive, you just want to get a sample on board, whether that's an egg, an infected human, or a xeno.

The fact that the order 937 itself includes the rerouting, makes me think the order must have been there at the start. The ship autowakes when it receives the signal, that's the trigger (from the intro sequence), it's already going to change it's flight path at that point, with no order from corp needed.

[lemonhead]

Again, interpretation. If you know exactly what's going on in that opening sequence, fair play. All that's certain is Mother wakes up and wakes the crew up.

Alternative is plausible as I said but hugely risky for something major going wrong. And I still don't have an answer for Ash helping them kill it in any way. He should be killing them, straight off the bat.

And the outbound crew should've been at least six of him, not one. Deniability's easy when you have all synthetics running the show to clear and concise orders.

[Brazil]

Again, interpretation. If you know exactly what's going on in that opening sequence, fair play. All that's certain is Mother wakes up and wakes the crew up.

Alternative is plausible as I said but hugely risky for something major going wrong. And I still don't have an answer for Ash helping them kill it in any way. He should be killing them, straight off the bat.

And the outbound crew should've been at least six of him, not one. Deniability's easy when you have all synthetics running the show to clear and concise orders.

You can explain Ash helping them kill it by the fact that the specimen doesn't have to be alive, just returned for analysis. So if they kill it they're none the wiser, and he can insist on preservation because yada yada yada. He does of course stop Parker from killing it when it's at it's most vulnerable.

For me, all this serves to show is that one small part of Alien is infinitely superior to the entirety of Prometheus and Covenant.

[Raggs]

Again, interpretation. If you know exactly what's going on in that opening sequence, fair play. All that's certain is Mother wakes up and wakes the crew up.

Alternative is plausible as I said but hugely risky for something major going wrong. And I still don't have an answer for Ash helping them kill it in any way. He should be killing them, straight off the bat.

And the outbound crew should've been at least six of him, not one. Deniability's easy when you have all synthetics running the show to clear and concise orders.

I could be wrong, but a xenomorph can kill Ash, and potentially damage the ship. There's still a shipful of eggs (right?) on the surface of the planetoid, Ash can theoretically just go and grab another should he fancy it. Insist on the crew returning a sample to base. (It's been a while!).

And if he only replaced the science officer last minute, then it's perhaps not possible for them to send a full shipload of androids.

I think the "official" canon is that the corp only translated the signal a short time before the ship departed, they got their android on as quickly as possible, but couldn't do more plans. Are there plenty of ships heading that way all the time? Seeing as space travel is done in cryosleep it sort of suggests it not commonplace of everyone whizzing around.

I don't think it's hugely risky that something could go wrong either. Worst comes to the worst, mother kills any remaining humans in cryosleep so they can't spread the story.

[lemonhead]

Again, interpretation. If you know exactly what's going on in that opening sequence, fair play. All that's certain is Mother wakes up and wakes the crew up.

Alternative is plausible as I said but hugely risky for something major going wrong. And I still don't have an answer for Ash helping them kill it in any way. He should be killing them, straight off the bat.

And the outbound crew should've been at least six of him, not one. Deniability's easy when you have all synthetics running the show to clear and concise orders.

I could be wrong, but a xenomorph can kill Ash, and potentially damage the ship. There's still a shipful of eggs (right?) on the surface of the planetoid, Ash can theoretically just go and grab another should he fancy it. Insist on the crew returning a sample to base. (It's been a while!).

And if he only replaced the science officer last minute, then it's perhaps not possible for them to send a full shipload of androids.

Lost me there, is Ash dead or alive in that scenario? And again, bit of a cut price masterplan.

Also, while I favour a mid flight instruction, Special Order 937 also simply be standard company policy, hard coded into the ship's computer and printed on screen for Ripley's benefit. The fact even a towing vessel has a mandatory science officer on every trip is a hint they may have their own special remit. Mother deciphered the transmission to begin with, the company don't necessarily have to know about it in advance. Plenty to think about

I don't think it's hugely risky that something could go wrong either. Worst comes to the worst, mother kills any remaining humans in cryosleep so they can't spread the story.

Sorry, that just doesn't work for me. Mother should've flat out refused a manual detonation of the ship if so. Ash can't be relied on for everything and is just as vulnerable to alien attack

Braz - only hitch there is how much value a barbecued hunk of smoking meat will be and the original plan was to blow it out the airlock anyway. Re Prometheus completely agree. Wouldnt surprise me if all this discussion didn't register a flicker on Ridley's radar at the time.

[Ovals]

Not likely to be on our screens until 2025 !!!!

https://www.imdb.com/news/ni64316979/?ref_=tt_nwr_1

[Ovals]

Again, interpretation. If you know exactly what's going on in that opening sequence, fair play. All that's certain is Mother wakes up and wakes the crew up.

Alternative is plausible as I said but hugely risky for something major going wrong. And I still don't have an answer for Ash helping them kill it in any way. He should be killing them, straight off the bat.

And the outbound crew should've been at least six of him, not one. Deniability's easy when you have all synthetics running the show to clear and concise orders.

I could be wrong, but a xenomorph can kill Ash, and potentially damage the ship. There's still a shipful of eggs (right?) on the surface of the planetoid, Ash can theoretically just go and grab another should he fancy it. Insist on the crew returning a sample to base. (It's been a while!).

And if he only replaced the science officer last minute, then it's perhaps not possible for them to send a full shipload of androids.

Lost me there, is Ash dead or alive in that scenario? And again, bit of a cut price masterplan.

Also, while I favour a mid flight instruction, Special Order 937 also simply be standard company policy, hard coded into the ship's computer and printed on screen for Ripley's benefit. The fact even a towing vessel has a mandatory science officer on every trip is a hint they may have their own special remit. Mother deciphered the transmission to begin with, the company don't necessarily have to know about it in advance. Plenty to think about

I don't think it's hugely risky that something could go wrong either. Worst comes to the worst, mother kills any remaining humans in cryosleep so they can't spread the story.

Sorry, that just doesn't work for me. Mother should've flat out refused a manual detonation of the ship if so. Ash can't be relied on for everything and is just as vulnerable to alien attack

Braz - only hitch there is how much value a barbecued hunk of smoking meat will be and the original plan was to blow it out the airlock anyway. Re Prometheus completely agree. Wouldnt surprise me if all this discussion didn't register a flicker on Ridley's radar at the time.

Evidently it won't be the Weyland Corp that has the Aliens on Earth - which makes the premise more consitent with the films.

[Sandstorm]

Evidently it won't be the Weyland Corp that has the Aliens on Earth - which makes the premise more consitent with the films.

The experiments will take place in the basement of this evil place: