Stop voting for fucking Tories

[sockwithaticket]

Rishi looked rattled and broken in that press conference

This government gave up a while ago, not that I have much faith in Labour’s competence but they may as well step aside and let some people with some energy have a go.

This lot do have energy - just that they are only prepared to expend it in serving their own interests

On the one hand it irritates me that they've been so pre-occupied with infighting for so long rather than doing any governing, but on the other whenever they do manage to focus for five minutes on passing some legislation it's something ghastly that further inhibits freedoms to strike and protest, worsens wealth inequality and social mobility or looks to kill off what little biodiversity remains in our shit-filled waterways.

So perhaps it's best if they bicker among themselves until the election.

[SaintK]

This quote from Sunak:

"It is the only approach because going any further, that difference is an inch, but going any further means that Rwanda will collapse the scheme and then we will have nowhere to send anyone to and that is not a way to get this going,".

He's telling Tory MPs they cannot have even more extreme legislation, because Paul Kagame's Rwanda will not allow it. Sunak not long ago (last week? the week before?), was saying "foreign courts" (actually two UK courts) do not decide the law. A whole UK PM is saying if an African dictator type guy decides he wants to follow international law then that compels the UK to do so.

This is nuts.

Doesn't begin to describe it

[fishfoodie]

This quote from Sunak:

"It is the only approach because going any further, that difference is an inch, but going any further means that Rwanda will collapse the scheme and then we will have nowhere to send anyone to and that is not a way to get this going,".

He's telling Tory MPs they cannot have even more extreme legislation, because Paul Kagame's Rwanda will not allow it. Sunak not long ago (last week? the week before?), was saying "foreign courts" (actually two UK courts) do not decide the law. A whole UK PM is saying if an African dictator type guy decides he wants to follow international law then that compels the UK to do so.

This is nuts.

Doesn't begin to describe it

Whoever is doing the strategies for this Government is Labours greatest asset in their campaign.

Even by random chance they should occasionally hit on a good one, but no, every one a dumpster fire.

[tabascoboy]

They absolutely have to be hoping that pre-Christmas inertia is their friend here and that people have other things on their mind to distract thoughts away from this utter shitshow. However they for some reason refuse to hunker down and try to get into the background for a while and just keep on digging themselves ever deeper.

[dpedin]

They absolutely have to be hoping that pre-Christmas inertia is their friend here and that people have other things on their mind to distract thoughts away from this utter shitshow. However they for some reason refuse to hunker down and try to get into the background for a while and just keep on digging themselves ever deeper.

Agree 100% - Labour approach has to be to stand back and leave them to get on with the self emollient. Last thing they want to do is to try and take away their spade, leave them to get on with it. Labour need to avoid getting dragged into the shitshow - as Sunak was keen to do in his speech - and put their focus onto something different, something positive and let the feckin nutters get now with destroying their own party.

[Hal Jordan]

In other tragic news, Rees-Mogg's boutique investment fund has gone tits up after St James's Place Independent Financial Saleforce took its funds and terrible customer service elsewhere.

Although Sunak will probably pass an Emergency Law saying that's not allowed, no backsies, they get a do over.

[tabascoboy]

The Daily Mirror ( yes, I know) is claiming that 18 MPs have already sent letters to oust Rishi Sunak

[robmatic]

The Daily Mirror ( yes, I know) is claiming that 18 MPs have already sent letters to oust Rishi Sunak

Is it because he's useless or because he isn't going far enough for the swivel-eyed set?

[tabascoboy]

The Daily Mirror ( yes, I know) is claiming that 18 MPs have already sent letters to oust Rishi Sunak

Is it because he's useless or because he isn't going far enough for the swivel-eyed set?

Well, you'd hope it was unease at aiming to ignore/bypass rulings of the highest Court in the land but I suspect the swivel-eyed loons have it

[Tichtheid]

Not usually a fan of Nick Robinson but this was a bulls eye!!!

I've just listened to that segment of the programme. Braverman starts out by saying "This is s time for action, not slogans" and proceeds to say "Stop the boats" twelve times during the interview (yes I did count them).

[Uncle fester]

[Slick]

I saw Tobias Elwood call this out and ask HQ to delete it

[Tichtheid]

I saw Tobias Elwood call this out and ask HQ to delete it

It's still there seven hours after posting, so I guess it has been met with approval at Tory party HQ

[Tichtheid]

In fact looking through that Cons twitter feed they have gone all in on the immigration gambit.

The next election campaign from them is going to be absolutely foul.

[fishfoodie]

"The Tories when the electorate ask for an Election to allow them to choose those who Govern them"

If the Tory scum want to do memes, then I will feel free to do my own !, as may you ....

[Tichtheid]

"The Tories when the electorate ask for an Election to allow them to choose those who Govern them"

If the Tory scum want to do memes, then I will feel free to do my own !, as may you ....

The Tories when you ask where all the money and the accountability went.

[_Os_]

When the Tories said there were no additional Rwanda costs, what they actually meant was the cost has doubled from £140m to £290m. This is only the up front cost, there's also the operating costs.

Whilst the treaty is uncapped (I've skimmed it there's no cap), it is limited by Rwandan capacity to process claims (the treaty is explicit that Rwanda can decline to accept asylum seekers), estimates of Rwandan capacity range from 200 to 500 per year. Processing the claims in the UK (the treaty makes clear that Rwanda is provided so much info, that there's been processing in the UK), enforced deportation, and then processing the claim in Rwanda and other operating costs in Rwanda, trying to find numbers on all that looks like about £30k-£40k per person (processing an asylum case in the UK £12k per person, enforced removal £15k per person for the detention/guards/flight, then the cost of processing the claim again in Rwanda and other Rwandan operating costs).

The treaty is explicit that it expires in April 2027 unless it's renewed. If 1500 asylum seekers are deported over that time, the total cost is around £340m, or £230k per person.

[lemonhead]

Single Transferable Vote please. May as well take responsibility for sinking the boat ourselves.

[Hal Jordan]

Want to make £290m with no effort? President Kagame will be streaming live at 8 p.m. tonight! Don't miss out!

[dpedin]

When the Tories said there were no additional Rwanda costs, what they actually meant was the cost has doubled from £140m to £290m. This is only the up front cost, there's also the operating costs.

Whilst the treaty is uncapped (I've skimmed it there's no cap), it is limited by Rwandan capacity to process claims (the treaty is explicit that Rwanda can decline to accept asylum seekers), estimates of Rwandan capacity range from 200 to 500 per year. Processing the claims in the UK (the treaty makes clear that Rwanda is provided so much info, that there's been processing in the UK), enforced deportation, and then processing the claim in Rwanda and other operating costs in Rwanda, trying to find numbers on all that looks like about £30k-£40k per person (processing an asylum case in the UK £12k per person, enforced removal £15k per person for the detention/guards/flight, then the cost of processing the claim again in Rwanda and other Rwandan operating costs).

The treaty is explicit that it expires in April 2027 unless it's renewed. If 1500 asylum seekers are deported over that time, the total cost is around £340m, or £230k per person.

Good analysis - do you also need to offset the costs of the UK accepting vulnerable refugees back from Rwanda as well? Treaty states the intention is 'to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”. As with UK to Rwanda movement there are no numbers quoted for the this direction.

[dpedin]

Want to make £290m with no effort? President Kagame will be streaming live at 8 p.m. tonight! Don't miss out!

It isn't really the best place from which to negotiate a deal ... 'my Gov will collapse if the Rwanda deal doesn't go through'! Like with the EU it looks like Rwanda holds all the cards! UK must be the world's worst negotiators.

[tabascoboy]

Want to make £290m with no effort? President Kagame will be streaming live at 8 p.m. tonight! Don't miss out!

It isn't really the best place from which to negotiate a deal ... 'my Gov will collapse if the Rwanda deal doesn't go through'! Like with the EU it looks like Rwanda holds all the cards! UK must be the world's worst negotiators.

All this idiocy just to appease the forehead vein popping "stop the boats" brigade

and now

[Sandstorm]

Want to make £290m with no effort? President Kagame will be streaming live at 8 p.m. tonight! Don't miss out!

It isn't really the best place from which to negotiate a deal ... 'my Gov will collapse if the Rwanda deal doesn't go through'! Like with the EU it looks like Rwanda holds all the cards! UK must be the world's worst negotiators.

All this idiocy just to appease the forehead vein popping "stop the boats" brigade

and now

They finally "Got Something Done!" Maybe.

[Hal Jordan]

Sunak didn't waste time striking back, did he?

[Slick]

I was with a few Rwandans yesterday and they were basically pissing themselves laughing at what is going on. They are absolutely convinced nothing will ever actually happen and thought it was hilarious that the U.K. keep giving them cash.

Was also with a group from Côte d’Ivoire today who were furious with it all and took massive offence to the way the U.K. government is using Africa as a deterrent.

As an aside, they were also pissing themselves at the state of Edinburghs roads

[TedMaul]

We’ve all chatted to the till staff at TKMaxx in Edinburgh you know.

[Slick]

We’ve all chatted to the till staff at TKMaxx in Edinburgh you know.

Edgy

[Uncle fester]

[tabascoboy]

Author is a reporter at Bloomberg

[_Os_]

Still not much mention of this in the media. The general assumption is the Tories are doing badly but the polls will get closer (how? why?), and then the election somehow isn't a wipe out for the Tories (how does this make sense?). We know why the truth doesn't appear in the media much, billionaire Tories own most of the newspapers and fund them at a loss, the broadcast media then mostly follow like lemmings (if they do not they're targeted like Newsnight and Channel 4 News have been).

The Tories have been polling consistently below where they were at the end of 1996. The low end of Tory poll numbers in 1996 was the high 20s, which is at the high end of Tory polling now. The high end of Tory polling in 1996 was the mid 30s, which the Tories are nowhere close to now. Then there's real elections, by-elections and council elections, where the Tories have been smashed. Some of their voters also have a taste for voting for loonies to the right of the Tories with no chance of winning, which wasn't true in 1997. They're in far worse shape than they were going into 1997.

About the only thing working in the Tory's favour is Labour don't look as hot as they were going into 1997, they're polling at the low end of where they were in 1996. But that's not much to shout about given the Tory numbers. Even if the Tories get back half of the Reform crazies, it's still a worse vote share than 1997.

[weegie01]

As an aside, they were also pissing themselves at the state of Edinburghs roads

But what are their cycle lanes like?

[dpedin]

As an aside, they were also pissing themselves at the state of Edinburghs roads

But what are their cycle lanes like?

Edinburgh roads are just plain awful and getting worse, more potholes that road in many areas. At least it slows the traffic down to 20mph, Welsh Gov should try it.

[Hal Jordan]

Meanwhile, someone blew up a ULEZ camera and this attracts less attention than some orange powder chucked at a building.

[tabascoboy]

Eh, isn't this the kind of thing we denounce nations like Russia and China for?

Mr Jenrick said it was his view that border control would be "far more straightforward if we [the UK] extricated ourselves from the web of international frameworks that have taken on near mythical status within government".

"One of the advantages of our uncodified constitution is the unfettered power of our sovereign parliament to create law," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67669609

[Paddington Bear]

Eh, isn't this the kind of thing we denounce nations like Russia and China for?

Mr Jenrick said it was his view that border control would be "far more straightforward if we [the UK] extricated ourselves from the web of international frameworks that have taken on near mythical status within government".

"One of the advantages of our uncodified constitution is the unfettered power of our sovereign parliament to create law," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67669609

A democratically elected parliament making laws? No

[petej]

Eh, isn't this the kind of thing we denounce nations like Russia and China for?

Mr Jenrick said it was his view that border control would be "far more straightforward if we [the UK] extricated ourselves from the web of international frameworks that have taken on near mythical status within government".

"One of the advantages of our uncodified constitution is the unfettered power of our sovereign parliament to create law," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67669609

A democratically elected parliament making laws? No

Pushing democratically elected considering the leadership changes. They are along way from what blobby Johnson was elected on. Pretty sure they've broken multiple parts of the uncodified constitution.

[Paddington Bear]

Eh, isn't this the kind of thing we denounce nations like Russia and China for?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67669609

A democratically elected parliament making laws? No

Pushing democratically elected considering the leadership changes. They are along way from what blobby Johnson was elected on. Pretty sure they've broken multiple parts of the uncodified constitution.

They’re dodgy as hell. There’s nothing inherently undemocratic about changing leader, albeit multiple times takes the piss. Doesn’t change that we don’t live in a dictatorship now that after 13 years the Tories have discovered they can legislate

[Biffer]

Eh, isn't this the kind of thing we denounce nations like Russia and China for?

Mr Jenrick said it was his view that border control would be "far more straightforward if we [the UK] extricated ourselves from the web of international frameworks that have taken on near mythical status within government".

"One of the advantages of our uncodified constitution is the unfettered power of our sovereign parliament to create law," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67669609

A democratically elected parliament making laws? No

We expect our politicians to produce laws that are legal. And to meet our international obligations (many of which we wrote)

[Paddington Bear]

Eh, isn't this the kind of thing we denounce nations like Russia and China for?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67669609

A democratically elected parliament making laws? No

We expect our politicians to produce laws that are legal. And to meet our international obligations (many of which we wrote)

We’ll have a general election next year where you can vote out a government if you think their conduct stinks, and if they end up with fewer seats than the opposition they’ll leave office. Hence we are not like Russia or North Korea

[petej]

A democratically elected parliament making laws? No

Pushing democratically elected considering the leadership changes. They are along way from what blobby Johnson was elected on. Pretty sure they've broken multiple parts of the uncodified constitution.

They’re dodgy as hell. There’s nothing inherently undemocratic about changing leader, albeit multiple times takes the piss. Doesn’t change that we don’t live in a dictatorship now that after 13 years the Tories have discovered they can legislate

Not disagreeing with you - I was hinting at their dodgy behaviour. The impressive thing with Tories legislating is how bad they are at it. They seem to briefly try to legislate then realise it is complicated and are too lazy to try to understand the nasty detail and then blame the EU or some treaty or the civil service or on occasion UK businesses for it being difficult/complex.