Stop voting for fucking Tories

[TedMaul]

Meanwhile Baroness Mone has released a snivelling self-serving video whilst she wriggles like an overfed worm in a corset on a moral hook.

[_Os_]

When the Tories said there were no additional Rwanda costs, what they actually meant was the cost has doubled from £140m to £290m. This is only the up front cost, there's also the operating costs.

Whilst the treaty is uncapped (I've skimmed it there's no cap), it is limited by Rwandan capacity to process claims (the treaty is explicit that Rwanda can decline to accept asylum seekers), estimates of Rwandan capacity range from 200 to 500 per year. Processing the claims in the UK (the treaty makes clear that Rwanda is provided so much info, that there's been processing in the UK), enforced deportation, and then processing the claim in Rwanda and other operating costs in Rwanda, trying to find numbers on all that looks like about £30k-£40k per person (processing an asylum case in the UK £12k per person, enforced removal £15k per person for the detention/guards/flight, then the cost of processing the claim again in Rwanda and other Rwandan operating costs).

The treaty is explicit that it expires in April 2027 unless it's renewed. If 1500 asylum seekers are deported over that time, the total cost is around £340m, or £230k per person.

When the Tories said there was no additional Rwanda costs, which actually meant a further two payments of £100m and £50m. They actually meant after that £290m has been paid, there's an additional two instalments of an undisclosed amount that will then be paid. Could be looking at £400m+ before operating costs.

The whole thing is insane in general, but even if you take it on face value that deporting migrants to Rwanda is a good idea in principle, the amount of money being spent for the tiny number of migrants it will handle is bonkers. They'd have been better off using the money to hire more processing staff in the UK.

All it's about is the frontpages of the Express/Sun/Mail/Telegraph having a photo of a plane going to Rwanda and the title "FUCK OFF BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM!!".

That's the entirety of what it's about.

It's not supposed to make any sense, if it costs shitloads for very little the Tories don't care, if the plane returns with broken refugees from the DRC wars that Rwanda fuels the Tories don't care. Tory brains have been cooked by Brexit, including supposed "moderates" like Sunak. One of the very few things Farage is correct about is it doesn't seem plausible that Sunak is a Brexiter, his constituency was pro-Brexit though and he picked wisely. Tories like Sunak think they have the cheat codes to UK politics, it goes something like this: "give up all your morals or even just basic rationality, it is foolish to try and act in the best interests of the UK, panda to whatever crazy thing people seem to want and do so without even thinking, then you will get a majority like Big Dog". Sunak is not a normal person, he's a billionaire that gets helicopter rides like other people catch a bus. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Sunak has such a low opinion of the UK electorate that he views those voting for him as literal savages.

[PornDog]

The whole thing is insane in general, but even if you take it on face value that deporting migrants to Rwanda is a good idea in principle, the amount of money being spent for the tiny number of migrants it will handle is bonkers. They'd have been better off using the money to hire more processing staff in the UK.

This has always been the case.

I've always assumed their motives to be twofold - 1. delay the processing as long as possible because too high a percentage of applicants would actually be legally eligible for asylum; and 2. make the entire process as physically and mentally tortuous (literally) as possible on the applicants as a means to discourage future legitimate asylum claims.

Cunts are gonna cunt!


As previously stated, the only real way to combat the migration crisis is to have a much more equitable world, which lets face it, is unlikely to happen without Dr. Guillotin's invention making a reappearance!

[dpedin]

The whole thing is insane in general, but even if you take it on face value that deporting migrants to Rwanda is a good idea in principle, the amount of money being spent for the tiny number of migrants it will handle is bonkers. They'd have been better off using the money to hire more processing staff in the UK.

This has always been the case.

I've always assumed their motives to be twofold - 1. delay the processing as long as possible because too high a percentage of applicants would actually be legally eligible for asylum; and 2. make the entire process as physically and mentally tortuous (literally) as possible on the applicants as a means to discourage future legitimate asylum claims.

Cunts are gonna cunt!


As previously stated, the only real way to combat the migration crisis is to have a much more equitable world, which lets face it, is unlikely to happen without Dr. Guillotin's invention making a reappearance!

Rwanda is the new Brexit - it is just a vehicle for the Tories to hang all their racist anti EU crap on and a call to arms of their racist Little Englander voters . They need a target, a foreign enemy, someone to blame everything on and to distract us all for the complete shitshow they have made of the economy, social services, Covid, PPE crookedness, etc. It is also a vehicle for attacking the ECHR and all that stands for - they are desperate to deregulate and to pawn off the remaining social services, including the NHS, to all their big corporate mates. Dismantling the UK interconnectedness to EU and international laws is a key step in making all this happen. Rwanda, illegal immigrants and 'stop the boats' are all just vacuous slogans about a fictitious enemy of the state that they are desperate to have so they can all rally around the Union Jack and spout puerile Make Britain Great again shite.

The current Tory infighting is just plain made up nonsense and it is all about keeping them and this agenda in the headlines It is all about managing the national debate and making them all seem as desperate to fight off the 'foreign invasion' and all they are arguing about is how extreme they need to be and gives them a chance to slag off Labour for being all woke and weak. We, with the help of the UK press, are being played by the current Gov and they are using our cash to do this. £300m on Rwanda is pocket money compared to how much they think they will gain by staying in power and pushing their populist, deregulation agenda.

What they have managed to achieve is to shift the agenda, get the discussion going about 'illegal immigration' and how bad it is whilst legal immigration is sky high mainly due to Brexit and the loss of the valuable EU workforce in the last few years. Now they are attacking legal immigrants for 'playing the system' that they designed and implemented post Brexit and fully knew we needed high immigration to compensate for the loss of the EU workforce.

We are all being played guys, the Gov clearly thinks we are all mugs and can't join the dots with their current strategy to stay in power and are happy to distract us with 'Stop the Boats' whilst they get on with the job of deregulation, running down public services and the NHS, privatising essential services, running up largest ever UK debt and creating Freeports and Charter cities which they will sell off to their dodgy big corporation mates. It has also been an excellent cover for some of the Covid Enquiry interviews where the 'Big Dog' and the 'Head Boy' were found to be IT incoherent twats who were both suffering form early onset dementia and severe memory loss.

The sooner this bunch of populist, racist charlatans are gone the better, unfortunately the damage they have done over the past 14 years will take decades to recover from!

[Sandstorm]

We, with the help of the UK press, are being played by the current Gov and they are using our cash to do this.

This is the real issue in the UK. The Press are absolute wankers, who are more corrupt and/or incompetent than any MP in Parliament.

[tabascoboy]

Tory group put three options to Sunak as he works the phones

Chris Mason
Political editor
BBC

I am told at their meeting in Downing Street with the prime minister, Danny Kruger - the co-chair of New Conservatives group of Tory MPs - told Rishi Sunak he had three options:

• Pull the vote tonight

• Make clear he would accept "significant" amendments in the new year if it passes

• Press on regardless

The New Conservatives believe there is sufficient anger on the Tory backbenches that the government can be defeated. "There are more than 29 Conservative MPs who are very, very concerned about this,” is how one source put it.

But, but, but: do they decide to vote against later, or abstain? And were some won around by the prime minister?

The European Research Group will meet at 17:00 to decide what they are planning to do. The New Conservatives are expected to be at that meeting too.

Meanwhile, the prime minister continues to make phone calls, and speak to people in person. No 10 argue they want to "keep listening and keep talking" but also say they have limited room for manoeuvre.

The persuading, the arguing, the deciding continues.

[sockwithaticket]

The whole thing is insane in general, but even if you take it on face value that deporting migrants to Rwanda is a good idea in principle, the amount of money being spent for the tiny number of migrants it will handle is bonkers. They'd have been better off using the money to hire more processing staff in the UK.

This has always been the case.

I've always assumed their motives to be twofold - 1. delay the processing as long as possible because too high a percentage of applicants would actually be legally eligible for asylum; and 2. make the entire process as physically and mentally tortuous (literally) as possible on the applicants as a means to discourage future legitimate asylum claims.

Cunts are gonna cunt!

As previously stated, the only real way to combat the migration crisis is to have a much more equitable world, which lets face it, is unlikely to happen without Dr. Guillotin's invention making a reappearance!

Well, yes, there are very few problems in the UK right now that couldn't have been solved by investment rather than cuts and privatisation that siphons money from the public purse.

I'd add 3. Tory donors and mates making money running the detention facilities/hotels where migrants are held for eye-watering sums per day e.g. Serco

The only civilised and ethical way to curb migration is to drastically reduce push factors from points of origin. There are certainly other means, though we're quite distant from the socio-political environment for them at this stage.

[_Os_]

The MPs have started the debate the vote is tonight many hours away. The PM is fighting off a revolt from the right because the PM promised them impossible shit and staked everything on it. Tory far right factions have given themselves silly names and have formed a party within a party. Mark Francois is giving press conferences. Ian Dunt is posting live commentary on the debate in an already massive Twitter thread.

No it is not 2018 or 2019.

[_Os_]

Ian Dunt is posting live commentary on the debate in an already massive Twitter thread.

He has a way with words ... "will of the people = Brexit shit-filled nappy".

[tabascoboy]

[yermum]

Every time I think this country can’t go any lower we somehow find a way to manage.

Please can we have a GE soon.

With the run we are on there will be some freak set of circumstances that mean Farage ends up as PM

[Insane_Homer]

JRM get ratiod good...

JRM: "If we don’t leave the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights we will not solve our immigration problem."

MG: “The ECHR is British in origin. It is our heritage and our standards. If you cannot operate by our British values, you should not be in our Parliament.”

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/polit ... wn-364963/

[Hal Jordan]

Meanwhile, someone poor sod has died on Braverman's prison hulk. It would appear to be suicide.

[_Os_]

Sammy Wilson the brain surgeon from the DUP says "Ulster says no!". Among all the waffle he claimed immigrants are stopping people accessing the health service, a Farage line, not sure who he thinks is staffing the health service in the UK.

Looks like the bill will pass so far, not many declaring outright their voting against it, just Danny Kruger who is one of the leaders of the "five families".

[tabascoboy]

Bill may well just scrape through but wouldn't mind betting on pressure for amendments and a second reading

[fishfoodie]

Sammy Wilson the brain surgeon from the DUP says "Ulster says no!". Among all the waffle he claimed immigrants are stopping people accessing the health service, a Farage line, not sure who he thinks is staffing the health service in the UK.

Looks like the bill will pass so far, not many declaring outright their voting against it, just Danny Kruger who is one of the leaders of the "five families".

Ooooh; so it's not because the DUP threw their toys out of the Pram when they lost their majority, & the biggoted scum couldn't deal with a Catholic actually having power. Got it

I see Generic brought up ever crime a refugee has been accused of, as some sort of justification for deporting them.

I'll bet though if you compared the rate of criminal offenses committed by the members of the last 13 years worth of Tories, & refugees, you deport the Tories for the worse ratio of criminality !!!

[C69]

Francois says the Bill is dead in the water.
The 5 families will not support the Bill.

Open warfare.

[fishfoodie]

Francois says the Bill is dead in the water.
The 5 families will not support the Bill.

Open warfare.

So "Not Support" means abstain I assume, so the Government doesn't have the numbers if that happens ?

[geordie_6]

Vote pulled in 3...2...

[fishfoodie]

Vote pulled in 3...2...

The head boy hasn't so much painted himself into a corner, so much as he's sowed a minefield, & then realized that the ERG et al have sowed one too, that backs up to his .

Another new PM for the New Year ?

[_Os_]

Sunak wins this round. The 5 families have shown they have the numbers if they vote against him.

The 5 families are aiming to make amendments. The one nation Tories during the debate were clear they would not vote in support of anything more extreme, some specifically said any amendments and they're not supporting it.

My guess is the amendments will happen. The one nation Tories are wimps and not well led (their big beasts have been purged), they tend to waffle a load of bullshit then "regretfully vote with the government", a lot of the worst the Tories have come up with would've got nowhere if they showed any spine. I reckon it's not going to be stopped, how extreme it becomes who knows. Creatures lurking in the 5 families will want this to be really extreme, for them it's an added bonus the more rights can be stripped from more people.

[tabascoboy]

[Hal Jordan]

The fact that a man like Francois (as puppeted by the likes of Bill Cash) has any influence on anything more important than serving tea at a school fête shows what a state this country is in, and how spineless Sunak is. Thatcher, rot her soul, would have crushed Francois' balls in a vice before he had a chance to get in front of the camera.

[fishfoodie]

The fact that a man like Francois (as puppeted by the likes of Bill Cash) has any influence on anything more important than serving tea at a school fête shows what a state this country is in, and how spineless Sunak is. Thatcher, rot her soul, would have crushed Francois' balls in a vice before he had a chance to get in front of the camera.

I'm surprised the Russians & Chinese bother hacking your comms; the Tory MPs couldn't be more obviously, "For Sale", if they were standing on street corners wearing fishnets & latex mini skirts.

[Hal Jordan]

It also turns out that everything the Tory right wing said and did was just empty posturing and in the end they voted to prolong their stay on the political gravy train rather than stand up for what they supposedly believe in. Who knew?

[C69]

It also turns out that everything the Tory right wing said and did was just empty posturing and in the end they voted to prolong their stay on the political gravy train rather than stand up for what they supposedly believe in. Who knew?

This is exactly what they wanted. They knew the figures.
They want to make amendments later
The Tories are now just a bunch of factions.
There is now open warfare and just a load of hatred.

[dpedin]

The Gov were never going to be defeated in the vote - Tory self preservation is strong - those swimming pools dont heat themselves you know! They dont have a shred of morality amongst them and will continue to fight like rats in a sack until it comes to threatening their own gravy train at which point they would vote to strangle their own Granny to stay in power. It is all just a big dead cat and the papers and media fall for it, it will continue to provide them with a racist vehicle up to the next election to appeal to their gammon voters. In the interim the Tory psycho-drama will give them lots of headlines about being strong on immigration, about how weak Labour are and will create open borders, about how we are being invaded by criminals and rapists, about how immigrants are ruining everyones chances to get affordable housing, a GP appointment, etc. The sad things is that many of the voting public, aided and abetted by the right wing media, will believe all this shite.

Meanwhile all the time this Rwanda and 'Stop the Boats' war nonsense stays in the headlines and everyone has by now forgotten the lies and falsehoods told by the Head Boy and the Blonde Bumblecunt to the Covid Enquiry. It is also drowning out the early warning signs of the NHS beginning to buckle under the winter pressures, negative growth in the last quarter, rising homeless numbers, implementation of Brexit tariffs and veterinary checks for EU goods, etc. £300m well spent in the Tory eyes.

[tabascoboy]

On being asked about the 140 000 homeless children this coming Christmas, Sunak doesn't exactly look composed...

[Insane_Homer]

Has Mark's psychotherapist let him talk to the public again?

[_Os_]

I'm not buying that it's 4D chess by the Tories. At the end of November I listed some cracks that were showing in Sunak's administration, things were becoming chaotic.

For this vote there were 29 Tory rebels that went against the Tory whip and abstained, mostly the usual backbench Tory crazies. 29 is enough if they voted against the government. There's others that voted with the government, but will switch sides and abstain or vote against the government if they think there's advantage in it for them, these are chancers and cowards like Rees-Mogg, Shapps, Zahawi, Truss. My guess is there's 40 to 60 MPs in and around the five families who are strongly opposed to Sunak.

What this means is Sunak cannot do much as he risks looking weak. Especially if he tries to legislate on the favourite topics of the five families (immigration/Brexit/international treaties/sovereignty). Don't expect much legislating and governing through 2024, it'll be a zombie government that decides it's much safer to campaign for an entire year. They'll keep going with Rwanda on the basis of they've come this far and the media profile it has, and that'll be it.

[dpedin]

I'm not buying that it's 4D chess by the Tories. At the end of November I listed some cracks that were showing in Sunak's administration, things were becoming chaotic.

For this vote there were 29 Tory rebels that went against the Tory whip and abstained, mostly the usual backbench Tory crazies. 29 is enough if they voted against the government. There's others that voted with the government, but will switch sides and abstain or vote against the government if they think there's advantage in it for them, these are chancers and cowards like Rees-Mogg, Schapps, Zahawi, Truss. My guess is there's 40 to 60 MPs in and around the five families who are strongly opposed to Sunak.

What this means is Sunak cannot do much as he risks looking weak. Especially if he tries to legislate on the favourite topics of the five families (immigration/Brexit/international treaties/sovereignty). Don't expect much legislating and governing through 2024, it'll be a zombie government that decides it's much safer to campaign for an entire year. They'll keep going with Rwanda on the basis of they've come this far and the media profile it has, and that'll be it.

I suppose I am saying the same thing roughly. They will be happy to delay any votes on the Rwanda policy as long as possible whilst giving the impression that they are being held up by woke lefties in the HoL and HoC, in committees and by left wing 'enemy of the people' lawyers producing sound legal opinions and shout they are being frustrated on implementing the 'will of the people'. They won't bring it to a vote prior to the next election, it will get bumped down the line but it will be kept live and that is the plan as it gives them an opportunity to make 'Stop the Boats' and 'Immigrant Rapists' the focal point of their GE campaign. They are desperate to make this the key wedge issue on which to fight the GE, the last thing they want is the economy, the NHS, housing, etc to be the fighting ground. They want to blame immigrants for their failure in all these areas - despite the opposite being true. They also need to deflect from the unmitigated disaster of Brexit. None of the Tory MPs really want to bring the Gov down as they know this would trigger a GE and make it even more likely they would lose their seat. None of them want to lose their cushy numbers as MPs with their expenses and GBabiesNews contracts! They will huff and puff about Rwanda and push it as far as they can but will not commit political harakiri - they will just use it to play to their own voters and to try and avoid losing more votes to Reform Party/Farage. They know their only hope is to yet again use immigration and Union Jack waving in order to win the Little Englander vote, they think the further right they go the more votes they will win and in some seats this is true. Rwanda is just the equivalent of the Farage 'Breaking Point' poster but a little bit more expensive.

It is the death throes of a zombie gov who are desperate to stay in power and happy to destroy what is left of the country in order to protect their own and their mates vested interests. Some are also shitting themselves over future Covid Enquiry into PPE procurement and possible criminal prosecution and want to push that as far into the future as possible. Sunak will, by the time that happens, will be ensconced in his new high tech role in California or India with Father in Law.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not buying that it's 4D chess by the Tories. At the end of November I listed some cracks that were showing in Sunak's administration, things were becoming chaotic.

For this vote there were 29 Tory rebels that went against the Tory whip and abstained, mostly the usual backbench Tory crazies. 29 is enough if they voted against the government. There's others that voted with the government, but will switch sides and abstain or vote against the government if they think there's advantage in it for them, these are chancers and cowards like Rees-Mogg, Shapps, Zahawi, Truss. My guess is there's 40 to 60 MPs in and around the five families who are strongly opposed to Sunak.

What this means is Sunak cannot do much as he risks looking weak. Especially if he tries to legislate on the favourite topics of the five families (immigration/Brexit/international treaties/sovereignty). Don't expect much legislating and governing through 2024, it'll be a zombie government that decides it's much safer to campaign for an entire year. They'll keep going with Rwanda on the basis of they've come this far and the media profile it has, and that'll be it.

I keep saying that while this would normally be a bad thing, given what constitutes their attempts to govern and legislate, their not doing so wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

[Hal Jordan]

I'm sure they'll all unite to so something to fuck the environment without too much fuss, however. Sunak only understands the money the fossil fuel donors bring, and he's far too rich to be impacted by climate change, and that puts him in lockstep with the aims of the sceptics, cranks and outright liars on the Anti Net Zero griftwagon, who coincidentally happen to be the ERG, Star Chamber and the usual other suspects... Funny, that.

[_Os_]

I suppose I am saying the same thing roughly.

Our picks are different.

I definitely don't think they want Rwanda still going through parliament or in the courts during an election. To them that'll look like failure. They want Rwanda done and planes carrying people on the front pages of the Tory press, that's what they want during an election. My expectation is it passes with amendments that make it more extreme. If that's enough to get planes going to Rwanda on the frontpages of the Tory press by the end of 2024 and there's no possible legal challenges, I have no clue. They want to be able to make Starmer say if he supports or opposes Rwanda, which doesn't work unless Rwanda is real.

The treaty expires in 2027, so even if it happens it would have to be Labour that carries out of the bulk of it. I cannot see that happening. Starmer has already said all the money spent is a waste and has written it off. Even if Labour tried to pilot it because they're scared of losing voters, as soon as any problems come up they would use that as a reason to dump it.

Where I agree with you is the Tories are going to try and fight on immigration, Labour are ahead on everything but the Tories are closest to Labour in that area. The Tories have decided they want to win back the Reform vote, using them to avoid going under entirely. They could've tried to position themselves to win back the numerically larger amount of voters they've lost to Labour and the Lib Dems, but they've given up on them. The Tory election campaign will be nasty and focused on winning their nastiest voters back. Polling shows most people put the economy/cost of living and the NHS as the top two priorities, that's where the real election will be won.

[dpedin]

I suppose I am saying the same thing roughly.

Our picks are different.

I definitely don't think they want Rwanda still going through parliament or in the courts during an election. To them that'll look like failure. They want Rwanda done and planes carrying people on the front pages of the Tory press, that's what they want during an election. My expectation is it passes with amendments that make it more extreme. If that's enough to get planes going to Rwanda on the frontpages of the Tory press by the end of 2024 and there's no possible legal challenges, I have no clue. They want to be able to make Starmer say if he supports or opposes Rwanda, which doesn't work unless Rwanda is real.

The treaty expires in 2027, so even if it happens it would have to be Labour that carries out of the bulk of it. I cannot see that happening. Starmer has already said all the money spent is a waste and has written it off. Even if Labour tried to pilot it because they're scared of losing voters, as soon as any problems come up they would use that as a reason to dump it.

Where I agree with you is the Tories are going to try and fight on immigration, Labour are ahead on everything but the Tories are closest to Labour in that area. The Tories have decided they want to win back the Reform vote, using them to avoid going under entirely. They could've tried to position themselves to win back the numerically larger amount of voters they've lost to Labour and the Lib Dems, but they've given up on them. The Tory election campaign will be nasty and focused on winning their nastiest voters back. Polling shows most people put the economy/cost of living and the NHS as the top two priorities, that's where the real election will be won.

Whichever way to goes it is going to get really interesting and probably all depends on when we think they will call an election. I am going for a May election which is why I dont think they will try too hard to get Rwanda done as time will be tight, they will use let the timetable drift to avoid the inevitable showdown across the Party.

[dpedin]

Meanwhile HoC Committee has recommended that Tory twat Scott Benton is suspended from HoC for 35 days. Next week we should hear if Peter Bone recall petition will lead to a by election. Cunts keep in cunting!

[C69]

Meanwhile HoC Committee has recommended that Tory twat Scott Benton is suspended from HoC for 35 days. Next week we should hear if Peter Bone recall petition will lead to a by election. Cunts keep in cunting!

Corrupt and for sale apparently.
Even amongst the present bunch of cnuts he is spectacularly dishonest.

[Uncle fester]

This is the content I come to this thread for.

Also "five families"

[Begbie]

Mark Francois definitely stands at the bar (on a box) and tells people 'the Pride's pouring well'. Then tells everyone he could have joined the Paras but broke his leg during basic training, before waddling home to beat his chode to The Dam Busters.

[Brazil]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.