Gatland: How To Fix Rugby

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Guy Smiley
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Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm

We're going to see a lot of these types of articles over the next little while, every coach past and present is going to want a slice of the action...

paywalled link
How to fix rugby: The sport needs less kicking in order to thrive - Warren Gatland
Daily Telegraph UK
By Warren Gatland[/size

I recently attended a World Rugby conference in Sydney to provide a presentation on our World Cup experience in France. I was joined by Simon Raiwalui, who has recently stepped down as Fiji coach to take up a post with World Rugby, who represented the tier two sides.

The event was to provide a World Cup review for tier-two countries such as Chile, Portugal, Uruguay, Romania and Namibia. It was fascinating to see the statistics that were put up in terms of the successful teams and eye-opening to hear about the difficult challenges those teams face over the course of a four-year World Cup cycle and how tough it is for them to get up to speed in time for the tournament.

The review also shed some light on what we need to change in the game. We talked about how defence dominates the game, but the biggest thing in the game at the moment which is probably having the biggest influence on performance and results is the kicking game and the kicking strategy.

That includes the number of kicks by a side, the type of kicks and kicking metres. What has happened is that the middle part of the field has become the area where no side wants to be turned over, particularly if the concession is a penalty at the breakdown, whether it is for a player not releasing, going off his feet or in at the side of a ruck. Giving away a penalty in that area of the field can have a big consequence on what happens next and how long it takes for you to get the ball back.

Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate. It is a damning statistic from the perspective of a coach and a player who wants to play rugby and shift the ball when the opportunities arise and take chances. Instead, there is a greater emphasis on territory, of needing to be smart when you have the ball and limit the amount of turnovers in the game, particularly in the middle part of the pitch – and that means more territorial kicking.

It was a statistic that came back to bite Wales during the World Cup. I was delighted that we topped the pool, beating Fiji and Australia along the way, but we had a brilliant chance to reach the semi-finals, which would have been a fantastic return. However, during our quarter-final defeat by Argentina, it was the one game when we lost the kicking duel despite making more line breaks, more carry metres, and more passes. Argentina finished the game with more kicks and more kicking metres than us. It is one thing knowing about the stats, but you must have the ability to apply them as well.

To address this issue, we need to do something to swing the balance back in favour of the attack, but with so much pressure on results at international rugby I hope people can understand why the kicking game has such a massive influence at present.

I believe there are a number of changes that can be made to improve the game going into the start of the new World Cup cycle. The first thing is the officiating. As a game we have to do everything we can to support the referee and match officials. Rugby union has always prided itself on showing respect for officials as players, but that has to be broader. We have to make sure we all look at that.

The engagement of the television match official and bunker system needs to be reviewed as well to decide whether we proceed with that. I would also like discussions on the use of red cards. I liked what they did in Super Rugby by bringing in a 20-minute red card.

It wasn’t accepted by the northern hemisphere nations, but I think it needs to be looked at again because we don’t want semi-finals or finals decided by cards. Those are the moments when the world is watching our game, and it is the chance to grow the audience and you don’t want to ruin the spectacle. A 20-minute sanction is something I think most people could live with.

Speed up scrums

There are some law changes I would also like to see that might help improve the game from an attacking perspective. One I have been thinking about is taking the ‘mark’ out of the game. I am not sure there is a need for it anymore. It just slows the game down and takes some of the jeopardy out of putting high balls up into the opposition 22.

We also need to speed up scrums. Referees have stopped teams holding huddles before line-outs but what about scrum time? I said to one of my coaches that we need to run there, get set up as quickly as we can and put the referee and the opposition under a bit of pressure to speed up the scrums. Keep an eye out for Wales implementing this in the upcoming Six Nations.

These are the sort of quick fixes that can have quite a major impact in making our game more exciting. I would also like to see the 50:22 kicking law changed so that teams can attempt them even if the ball is passed into their own half. That could have an impact on creating more space in the back field.

Currently if the team in possession has a breakdown just inside their own half, the opposition back three are dropping back, making it difficult to execute a 50:22 kick. But as soon as the team in possession crosses the half-way line, the defensive line tends to flatten because the opposition knows that a 50:22 cannot be attempted if the ball is passed back over the half-way line. Changing that would force teams to hang back more often, which could create more space to attack, as well as making the law easier to referee.

Encourage teams to be more creative

Defences are also getting better in holding up attackers over the line to win a drop-out from under their posts, which can clear the ball to the half-way line. How about a compromise that if a team is held up over the line, they are awarded a five-metre scrum or line-out – even better a tapped free-kick?

We have to look at ways to keep the game moving and encourage teams to become more inventive and creative.

The final item on my Christmas wish list would be to review how we use replacements. The game is producing incredibly powerful athletes and when you see teams like South Africa at the World Cup name a bench with seven forwards and just one back, it means that your forwards only have to play for 40 minutes. That was not what it was intended for.

Rugby used to be about attempting to tire out a forward pack so that the space opened up in the final 20 minutes and there were more opportunities to attack. We are not seeing that at the moment because of the number of replacements and the incredible athletes we are producing. I think the time has come to trial a reduction in the number of replacements or even a return to when they were only for injuries. This ruling may just apply to top level or international rugby.

Chilli2
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:17 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:03 am We're going to see a lot of these types of articles over the next little while, every coach past and present is going to want a slice of the action...

paywalled link
How to fix rugby: The sport needs less kicking in order to thrive - Warren Gatland
Daily Telegraph UK
By Warren Gatland[/size

I recently attended a World Rugby conference in Sydney to provide a presentation on our World Cup experience in France. I was joined by Simon Raiwalui, who has recently stepped down as Fiji coach to take up a post with World Rugby, who represented the tier two sides.

The event was to provide a World Cup review for tier-two countries such as Chile, Portugal, Uruguay, Romania and Namibia. It was fascinating to see the statistics that were put up in terms of the successful teams and eye-opening to hear about the difficult challenges those teams face over the course of a four-year World Cup cycle and how tough it is for them to get up to speed in time for the tournament.

The review also shed some light on what we need to change in the game. We talked about how defence dominates the game, but the biggest thing in the game at the moment which is probably having the biggest influence on performance and results is the kicking game and the kicking strategy.

That includes the number of kicks by a side, the type of kicks and kicking metres. What has happened is that the middle part of the field has become the area where no side wants to be turned over, particularly if the concession is a penalty at the breakdown, whether it is for a player not releasing, going off his feet or in at the side of a ruck. Giving away a penalty in that area of the field can have a big consequence on what happens next and how long it takes for you to get the ball back.

Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate. It is a damning statistic from the perspective of a coach and a player who wants to play rugby and shift the ball when the opportunities arise and take chances. Instead, there is a greater emphasis on territory, of needing to be smart when you have the ball and limit the amount of turnovers in the game, particularly in the middle part of the pitch – and that means more territorial kicking.

It was a statistic that came back to bite Wales during the World Cup. I was delighted that we topped the pool, beating Fiji and Australia along the way, but we had a brilliant chance to reach the semi-finals, which would have been a fantastic return. However, during our quarter-final defeat by Argentina, it was the one game when we lost the kicking duel despite making more line breaks, more carry metres, and more passes. Argentina finished the game with more kicks and more kicking metres than us. It is one thing knowing about the stats, but you must have the ability to apply them as well.

To address this issue, we need to do something to swing the balance back in favour of the attack, but with so much pressure on results at international rugby I hope people can understand why the kicking game has such a massive influence at present.

I believe there are a number of changes that can be made to improve the game going into the start of the new World Cup cycle. The first thing is the officiating. As a game we have to do everything we can to support the referee and match officials. Rugby union has always prided itself on showing respect for officials as players, but that has to be broader. We have to make sure we all look at that.

The engagement of the television match official and bunker system needs to be reviewed as well to decide whether we proceed with that. I would also like discussions on the use of red cards. I liked what they did in Super Rugby by bringing in a 20-minute red card.

It wasn’t accepted by the northern hemisphere nations, but I think it needs to be looked at again because we don’t want semi-finals or finals decided by cards. Those are the moments when the world is watching our game, and it is the chance to grow the audience and you don’t want to ruin the spectacle. A 20-minute sanction is something I think most people could live with.

Speed up scrums

There are some law changes I would also like to see that might help improve the game from an attacking perspective. One I have been thinking about is taking the ‘mark’ out of the game. I am not sure there is a need for it anymore. It just slows the game down and takes some of the jeopardy out of putting high balls up into the opposition 22.

We also need to speed up scrums. Referees have stopped teams holding huddles before line-outs but what about scrum time? I said to one of my coaches that we need to run there, get set up as quickly as we can and put the referee and the opposition under a bit of pressure to speed up the scrums. Keep an eye out for Wales implementing this in the upcoming Six Nations.

These are the sort of quick fixes that can have quite a major impact in making our game more exciting. I would also like to see the 50:22 kicking law changed so that teams can attempt them even if the ball is passed into their own half. That could have an impact on creating more space in the back field.

Currently if the team in possession has a breakdown just inside their own half, the opposition back three are dropping back, making it difficult to execute a 50:22 kick. But as soon as the team in possession crosses the half-way line, the defensive line tends to flatten because the opposition knows that a 50:22 cannot be attempted if the ball is passed back over the half-way line. Changing that would force teams to hang back more often, which could create more space to attack, as well as making the law easier to referee.

Encourage teams to be more creative

Defences are also getting better in holding up attackers over the line to win a drop-out from under their posts, which can clear the ball to the half-way line. How about a compromise that if a team is held up over the line, they are awarded a five-metre scrum or line-out – even better a tapped free-kick?

We have to look at ways to keep the game moving and encourage teams to become more inventive and creative.

The final item on my Christmas wish list would be to review how we use replacements. The game is producing incredibly powerful athletes and when you see teams like South Africa at the World Cup name a bench with seven forwards and just one back, it means that your forwards only have to play for 40 minutes. That was not what it was intended for.

Rugby used to be about attempting to tire out a forward pack so that the space opened up in the final 20 minutes and there were more opportunities to attack. We are not seeing that at the moment because of the number of replacements and the incredible athletes we are producing. I think the time has come to trial a reduction in the number of replacements or even a return to when they were only for injuries. This ruling may just apply to top level or international rugby.



Are Gatlands teams well known for their creative rugby?
User avatar
Guy Smiley
Posts: 6815
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm

You're the only poster to reply and you still felt the need to quote the whole fucking post?
Format, you fucking goose :lol:
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Gumboot
Posts: 8886
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:17 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:03 am We're going to see a lot of these types of articles over the next little while, every coach past and present is going to want a slice of the action...

paywalled link
How to fix rugby: The sport needs less kicking in order to thrive - Warren Gatland
Daily Telegraph UK
By Warren Gatland[/size

I recently attended a World Rugby conference in Sydney to provide a presentation on our World Cup experience in France. I was joined by Simon Raiwalui, who has recently stepped down as Fiji coach to take up a post with World Rugby, who represented the tier two sides.

The event was to provide a World Cup review for tier-two countries such as Chile, Portugal, Uruguay, Romania and Namibia. It was fascinating to see the statistics that were put up in terms of the successful teams and eye-opening to hear about the difficult challenges those teams face over the course of a four-year World Cup cycle and how tough it is for them to get up to speed in time for the tournament.

The review also shed some light on what we need to change in the game. We talked about how defence dominates the game, but the biggest thing in the game at the moment which is probably having the biggest influence on performance and results is the kicking game and the kicking strategy.

That includes the number of kicks by a side, the type of kicks and kicking metres. What has happened is that the middle part of the field has become the area where no side wants to be turned over, particularly if the concession is a penalty at the breakdown, whether it is for a player not releasing, going off his feet or in at the side of a ruck. Giving away a penalty in that area of the field can have a big consequence on what happens next and how long it takes for you to get the ball back.

Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate. It is a damning statistic from the perspective of a coach and a player who wants to play rugby and shift the ball when the opportunities arise and take chances. Instead, there is a greater emphasis on territory, of needing to be smart when you have the ball and limit the amount of turnovers in the game, particularly in the middle part of the pitch – and that means more territorial kicking.

It was a statistic that came back to bite Wales during the World Cup. I was delighted that we topped the pool, beating Fiji and Australia along the way, but we had a brilliant chance to reach the semi-finals, which would have been a fantastic return. However, during our quarter-final defeat by Argentina, it was the one game when we lost the kicking duel despite making more line breaks, more carry metres, and more passes. Argentina finished the game with more kicks and more kicking metres than us. It is one thing knowing about the stats, but you must have the ability to apply them as well.

To address this issue, we need to do something to swing the balance back in favour of the attack, but with so much pressure on results at international rugby I hope people can understand why the kicking game has such a massive influence at present.

I believe there are a number of changes that can be made to improve the game going into the start of the new World Cup cycle. The first thing is the officiating. As a game we have to do everything we can to support the referee and match officials. Rugby union has always prided itself on showing respect for officials as players, but that has to be broader. We have to make sure we all look at that.

The engagement of the television match official and bunker system needs to be reviewed as well to decide whether we proceed with that. I would also like discussions on the use of red cards. I liked what they did in Super Rugby by bringing in a 20-minute red card.

It wasn’t accepted by the northern hemisphere nations, but I think it needs to be looked at again because we don’t want semi-finals or finals decided by cards. Those are the moments when the world is watching our game, and it is the chance to grow the audience and you don’t want to ruin the spectacle. A 20-minute sanction is something I think most people could live with.

Speed up scrums

There are some law changes I would also like to see that might help improve the game from an attacking perspective. One I have been thinking about is taking the ‘mark’ out of the game. I am not sure there is a need for it anymore. It just slows the game down and takes some of the jeopardy out of putting high balls up into the opposition 22.

We also need to speed up scrums. Referees have stopped teams holding huddles before line-outs but what about scrum time? I said to one of my coaches that we need to run there, get set up as quickly as we can and put the referee and the opposition under a bit of pressure to speed up the scrums. Keep an eye out for Wales implementing this in the upcoming Six Nations.

These are the sort of quick fixes that can have quite a major impact in making our game more exciting. I would also like to see the 50:22 kicking law changed so that teams can attempt them even if the ball is passed into their own half. That could have an impact on creating more space in the back field.

Currently if the team in possession has a breakdown just inside their own half, the opposition back three are dropping back, making it difficult to execute a 50:22 kick. But as soon as the team in possession crosses the half-way line, the defensive line tends to flatten because the opposition knows that a 50:22 cannot be attempted if the ball is passed back over the half-way line. Changing that would force teams to hang back more often, which could create more space to attack, as well as making the law easier to referee.

Encourage teams to be more creative

Defences are also getting better in holding up attackers over the line to win a drop-out from under their posts, which can clear the ball to the half-way line. How about a compromise that if a team is held up over the line, they are awarded a five-metre scrum or line-out – even better a tapped free-kick?

We have to look at ways to keep the game moving and encourage teams to become more inventive and creative.

The final item on my Christmas wish list would be to review how we use replacements. The game is producing incredibly powerful athletes and when you see teams like South Africa at the World Cup name a bench with seven forwards and just one back, it means that your forwards only have to play for 40 minutes. That was not what it was intended for.

Rugby used to be about attempting to tire out a forward pack so that the space opened up in the final 20 minutes and there were more opportunities to attack. We are not seeing that at the moment because of the number of replacements and the incredible athletes we are producing. I think the time has come to trial a reduction in the number of replacements or even a return to when they were only for injuries. This ruling may just apply to top level or international rugby.



tl;dr

:wink:
Chilli2
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:17 am

Gumboot wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:56 am
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:03 am We're going to see a lot of these types of articles over the next little while, every coach past and present is going to want a slice of the action...

paywalled link
How to fix rugby: The sport needs less kicking in order to thrive - Warren Gatland
Daily Telegraph UK
By Warren Gatland[/size

I recently attended a World Rugby conference in Sydney to provide a presentation on our World Cup experience in France. I was joined by Simon Raiwalui, who has recently stepped down as Fiji coach to take up a post with World Rugby, who represented the tier two sides.

The event was to provide a World Cup review for tier-two countries such as Chile, Portugal, Uruguay, Romania and Namibia. It was fascinating to see the statistics that were put up in terms of the successful teams and eye-opening to hear about the difficult challenges those teams face over the course of a four-year World Cup cycle and how tough it is for them to get up to speed in time for the tournament.

The review also shed some light on what we need to change in the game. We talked about how defence dominates the game, but the biggest thing in the game at the moment which is probably having the biggest influence on performance and results is the kicking game and the kicking strategy.

That includes the number of kicks by a side, the type of kicks and kicking metres. What has happened is that the middle part of the field has become the area where no side wants to be turned over, particularly if the concession is a penalty at the breakdown, whether it is for a player not releasing, going off his feet or in at the side of a ruck. Giving away a penalty in that area of the field can have a big consequence on what happens next and how long it takes for you to get the ball back.

Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate. It is a damning statistic from the perspective of a coach and a player who wants to play rugby and shift the ball when the opportunities arise and take chances. Instead, there is a greater emphasis on territory, of needing to be smart when you have the ball and limit the amount of turnovers in the game, particularly in the middle part of the pitch – and that means more territorial kicking.

It was a statistic that came back to bite Wales during the World Cup. I was delighted that we topped the pool, beating Fiji and Australia along the way, but we had a brilliant chance to reach the semi-finals, which would have been a fantastic return. However, during our quarter-final defeat by Argentina, it was the one game when we lost the kicking duel despite making more line breaks, more carry metres, and more passes. Argentina finished the game with more kicks and more kicking metres than us. It is one thing knowing about the stats, but you must have the ability to apply them as well.

To address this issue, we need to do something to swing the balance back in favour of the attack, but with so much pressure on results at international rugby I hope people can understand why the kicking game has such a massive influence at present.

I believe there are a number of changes that can be made to improve the game going into the start of the new World Cup cycle. The first thing is the officiating. As a game we have to do everything we can to support the referee and match officials. Rugby union has always prided itself on showing respect for officials as players, but that has to be broader. We have to make sure we all look at that.

The engagement of the television match official and bunker system needs to be reviewed as well to decide whether we proceed with that. I would also like discussions on the use of red cards. I liked what they did in Super Rugby by bringing in a 20-minute red card.

It wasn’t accepted by the northern hemisphere nations, but I think it needs to be looked at again because we don’t want semi-finals or finals decided by cards. Those are the moments when the world is watching our game, and it is the chance to grow the audience and you don’t want to ruin the spectacle. A 20-minute sanction is something I think most people could live with.

Speed up scrums

There are some law changes I would also like to see that might help improve the game from an attacking perspective. One I have been thinking about is taking the ‘mark’ out of the game. I am not sure there is a need for it anymore. It just slows the game down and takes some of the jeopardy out of putting high balls up into the opposition 22.

We also need to speed up scrums. Referees have stopped teams holding huddles before line-outs but what about scrum time? I said to one of my coaches that we need to run there, get set up as quickly as we can and put the referee and the opposition under a bit of pressure to speed up the scrums. Keep an eye out for Wales implementing this in the upcoming Six Nations.

These are the sort of quick fixes that can have quite a major impact in making our game more exciting. I would also like to see the 50:22 kicking law changed so that teams can attempt them even if the ball is passed into their own half. That could have an impact on creating more space in the back field.

Currently if the team in possession has a breakdown just inside their own half, the opposition back three are dropping back, making it difficult to execute a 50:22 kick. But as soon as the team in possession crosses the half-way line, the defensive line tends to flatten because the opposition knows that a 50:22 cannot be attempted if the ball is passed back over the half-way line. Changing that would force teams to hang back more often, which could create more space to attack, as well as making the law easier to referee.

Encourage teams to be more creative

Defences are also getting better in holding up attackers over the line to win a drop-out from under their posts, which can clear the ball to the half-way line. How about a compromise that if a team is held up over the line, they are awarded a five-metre scrum or line-out – even better a tapped free-kick?

We have to look at ways to keep the game moving and encourage teams to become more inventive and creative.

The final item on my Christmas wish list would be to review how we use replacements. The game is producing incredibly powerful athletes and when you see teams like South Africa at the World Cup name a bench with seven forwards and just one back, it means that your forwards only have to play for 40 minutes. That was not what it was intended for.

Rugby used to be about attempting to tire out a forward pack so that the space opened up in the final 20 minutes and there were more opportunities to attack. We are not seeing that at the moment because of the number of replacements and the incredible athletes we are producing. I think the time has come to trial a reduction in the number of replacements or even a return to when they were only for injuries. This ruling may just apply to top level or international rugby.



tl;dr

:wink:


Don't fucking quote the whole article.
It annoys GS.
Biffer
Posts: 10205
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm

So Gatland wants to tackle the fact that kicking is dominant by introducing law changes that will encourage more kicking. Ok. Fucking idiot.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Gumboot
Posts: 8886
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:17 am

Chilli2 wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:50 amDon't fucking quote the whole article.
It annoys GS.
Maybe him posting the whole article in the OP annoys other people?


Just kidding, I'm pissed as a fart. :grin:
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Tichtheid
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Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:00 am So Gatland wants to tackle the fact that kicking is dominant by introducing law changes that will encourage more kicking. Ok. Fucking idiot.
Exactly.

Taking the mark out of the game will lead to teams hoisting the pill into the air on the 22 at every opportunity - “get it into the facking mixer” in football parlance.

One thing I’d like to see is the refs applying the laws as they stand, who knows it might lead to the game we want to see.
It really grinds my gears when a penalty is awarded for a defender getting one hand on the ball at the breakdown

Coaches and players have ruined scrummaging for the most part in attempts to milk penalties. I don’t see a way back now, to be honest. Packs weigh in at nearly a tonne and the players are all supercharged on weight lifting, I’d wager in favour of a modern day tight five beating any whole pack from the 90s, my point being that there is so much pressure in the front row now that set up is crucial to safety, you just cannot engage in the same way as in the amateur days.
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assfly
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My slightly leftfield idea to help improve the game is to reduce the number of players on the field from 15 to 14. Perhaps one of the centers. It will create more space naturally.
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Sandstorm
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assfly wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:02 am My slightly leftfield idea to help improve the game is to reduce the number of players on the field from 15 to 14. Perhaps one of the centers. It will create more space naturally.
Farrell ?
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Gumboot
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assfly wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:02 am My slightly leftfield idea to help improve the game is to reduce the number of players on the field from 15 to 14. Perhaps one of the centers. It will create more space naturally.
Nah, rugby league is 13-aside, and tactically it's dull as ditchwater.
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assfly
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Sandstorm wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:02 am Farrell ?
He removes himself with his yellow cards :lol:
Slick
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Rucking
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
_Os_
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Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate.
This sounds meaningful. But the side which won the tournament played every other side ranked in the top 6, in all those matches the side which won the tournament were beaten on kicking metres and sometimes kicks made. If your exception to the rule is the winner of the tournament in question then maybe it's time to think a bit harder.

He had a moan about the Boks using the bench though ffs.
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Guy Smiley
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Chilli2 wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:50 am Don't fucking quote the whole article.
It annoys GS.
It's a cunt act... because there are a lot of people who access the forum via phone and lengthy quotes are a bitch to navigate that way.

By now, you should know this. Ideally, you'd have some awareness and empathy for what is a pretty small community of fellow users and take some care with posting.

Or maybe not. Maybe that sort of awareness isn't a thing out there where people cry and scream for a second login because they can't navigate the internet alone. I dunno. You do you, man.
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Guy Smiley
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_Os_ wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:09 am
Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate.
This sounds meaningful. But the side which won the tournament played every other side ranked in the top 6, in all those matches the side which won the tournament were beaten on kicking metres and sometimes kicks made. If your exception to the rule is the winner of the tournament in question then maybe it's time to think a bit harder.

He had a moan about the Boks using the bench though ffs.
The side that won came fucking close to losing to an undermanned team, too... an undermanned team coached by a moron with two good assistants. If you're thinking hard, that might be worth adding to the mix.
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Gumboot
Posts: 8886
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:17 am

_Os_ wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:09 am
Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate.
This sounds meaningful. But the side which won the tournament played every other side ranked in the top 6, in all those matches the side which won the tournament were beaten on kicking metres and sometimes kicks made. If your exception to the rule is the winner of the tournament in question then maybe it's time to think a bit harder.

He had a moan about the Boks using the bench though ffs.
That's a legit moan, imho. The Boks rotating their whole pack just after half time has completely tranformed the game. Fair play for implementing it successfully when it mattered, but is this really the direction we want our sport to go down?
sockwithaticket
Posts: 9347
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

Encourage teams to be more creative

Defences are also getting better in holding up attackers over the line to win a drop-out from under their posts, which can clear the ball to the half-way line. How about a compromise that if a team is held up over the line, they are awarded a five-metre scrum or line-out – even better a tapped free-kick?
Here's an idea, instead of mindlessly picking and driving for successive phases and getting held up, how about shifting the point of attack and getting the ball wider?

To me being held up over the line is a failure of the attack to best the defence and them getting to retain possession at the five metre line, in whatever form, is too much reward for having a blunt attack thwarted.

Also the whole idea of 'be more creative' is annoying to me. We see time and time again that creativity, usually being used as a synonym for attack focused play, is generally subject to the playing philosophy of the head coach, it's not a fault in the laws. Perhaps Gatland and his ilk should look within before advocating for changes to be made to the game at large.
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ASMO
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Remove tactical substututions, injuries only as it was in the old days, and injuries verified by an independant doctor (Blood Replacements are fine) Will mean that players have to lose muscle and weight to last the entire game, impacts will be reduced and hopefully injuries reduced.
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Guy Smiley
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ASMO wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:57 am Remove tactical substututions, injuries only as it was in the old days, and injuries verified by an independant doctor (Blood Replacements are fine) Will mean that players have to lose muscle and weight to last the entire game, impacts will be reduced and hopefully injuries reduced.
I reckon that's the most easily achievable way to transform the game and make it

i) more competitive

ii) more attractive
Chilli2
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:31 am
Chilli2 wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:50 am Don't fucking quote the whole article.
It annoys GS.
It's a cunt act... because there are a lot of people who access the forum via phone and lengthy quotes are a bitch to navigate that way.

By now, you should know this. Ideally, you'd have some awareness and empathy for what is a pretty small community of fellow users and take some care with posting.

Or maybe not. Maybe that sort of awareness isn't a thing out there where people cry and scream for a second login because they can't navigate the internet alone. I dunno. You do you, man.
I think that I preferred you when you were AC's fuckbooi.
Chilli2
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:33 am
_Os_ wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:09 am
Through the World Cup in France, the team that registered the most kicking metres enjoyed roughly an 80 per cent win rate.
This sounds meaningful. But the side which won the tournament played every other side ranked in the top 6, in all those matches the side which won the tournament were beaten on kicking metres and sometimes kicks made. If your exception to the rule is the winner of the tournament in question then maybe it's time to think a bit harder.

He had a moan about the Boks using the bench though ffs.
The side that won came fucking close to losing to an undermanned team, too... an undermanned team coached by a moron with two good assistants. If you're thinking hard, that might be worth adding to the mix.
They still won
Winners are grinners
Chilli2
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Gumboot wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:33 am
Chilli2 wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:50 amDon't fucking quote the whole article.
It annoys GS.
Maybe him posting the whole article in the OP annoys other people?


Just kidding, I'm pissed as a fart. :grin:
A link would have sufficed.
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Guy Smiley
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ahhhh...

jaapies.
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LoveOfTheGame
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:45 am ahhhh...

jaapies.
Sheez GS, you can be a grumpy old fart sometimes.
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Sandstorm
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sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:46 am
Encourage teams to be more creative

Defences are also getting better in holding up attackers over the line to win a drop-out from under their posts, which can clear the ball to the half-way line. How about a compromise that if a team is held up over the line, they are awarded a five-metre scrum or line-out – even better a tapped free-kick?
Here's an idea, instead of mindlessly picking and driving for successive phases and getting held up, how about shifting the point of attack and getting the ball wider?

To me being held up over the line is a failure of the attack to best the defence and them getting to retain possession at the five metre line, in whatever form, is too much reward for having a blunt attack thwarted.

Also the whole idea of 'be more creative' is annoying to me. We see time and time again that creativity, usually being used as a synonym for attack focused play, is generally subject to the playing philosophy of the head coach, it's not a fault in the laws. Perhaps Gatland and his ilk should look within before advocating for changes to be made to the game at large.
Teams tend to shift the point of attack from 5 meters out by passing to the flyhalf, who sends the ball wide to the winger by kicki.....ah shit! That won't work either, Warren. :cry:
Dinsdale Piranha
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During the last Lions tour Gatland & Rassie served up quite the worst rugby I've ever seen. The sort or Rugby that actively shrinks the game globally.

My suggestion is to do the opposite of what either of them suggest.
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fishfoodie
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Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:00 am So Gatland wants to tackle the fact that kicking is dominant by introducing law changes that will encourage more kicking. Ok. Fucking idiot.
Well that, & he wants to speed up scrums, which has nothing to do with Wales having the worst scrum in tier 1, absolutely not.

Did he mention getting rid of lineouts ?, because they're fucking dire there too.
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OomStruisbaai
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Why would you want to change rugby rules? Vokken why?
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Guy Smiley
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LoveOfTheGame wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 12:06 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:45 am ahhhh...

jaapies.
Sheez GS, you can be a grumpy old fart sometimes.
:lol: ... all the time.

I worked through Christmas and had my first drink in two weeks last night. Polished off a bottle of red on my own.

Apologies.
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Enzedder
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3 subs only - tactical or injury, I don't care.

Depower the scrum by legislating that the ball must be in the middle and both hookers MUST strike for it.

Stay on your feet (no porpoising and must roll away immediately) in all rucks and mauls.
I drink and I forget things.
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Sandstorm
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As soon as the 9 puts his hands on the ball, it’s out! That way he has to pass unless he has lots of time. Stops 90% of box kicks immediately and no more caterpillars either.
Biffer
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I e said this before, many, many times, my mates are sick of hearing it, but I’d like to see refs being draconian on offside. Benefit of the doubt is against the defence. People rave about top players being able to work wonders with half a yard of space, so give them it by being absolutely rigid on offside. It’ll be a penalty fest to begin with but then players will adapt.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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fishfoodie
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Enzedder wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:48 pm 3 subs only - tactical or injury, I don't care.

Depower the scrum by legislating that the ball must be in the middle and both hookers MUST strike for it.

Stay on your feet (no porpoising and must roll away immediately) in all rucks and mauls.
+1

I'm sick of seeing the likes of Antonio getting wheeled out, when there's no way he could play 80 mins, & he & other front rows are just there to wear down the opposition, secure in the knowledge that a 6-2 bench will allow him to be replaced after ~40 minutes.
Simian
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Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:43 pm I e said this before, many, many times, my mates are sick of hearing it, but I’d like to see refs being draconian on offside. Benefit of the doubt is against the defence. People rave about top players being able to work wonders with half a yard of space, so give them it by being absolutely rigid on offside. It’ll be a penalty fest to begin with but then players will adapt.
Yep. That and refs penalising instead of saying ‘hands off’ would do wonders, imo.
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Tichtheid
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Simian wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:08 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:43 pm I e said this before, many, many times, my mates are sick of hearing it, but I’d like to see refs being draconian on offside. Benefit of the doubt is against the defence. People rave about top players being able to work wonders with half a yard of space, so give them it by being absolutely rigid on offside. It’ll be a penalty fest to begin with but then players will adapt.
Yep. That and refs penalising instead of saying ‘hands off’ would do wonders, imo.
I agree, but there was a directive from World Rugby that refs should manage games as a spectacle, hence the coaching of players from refs even at the level of the World Cup final. The blame for this one resides firmly with World Rugby.
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Sandstorm
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Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:10 pm
Simian wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:08 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:43 pm I e said this before, many, many times, my mates are sick of hearing it, but I’d like to see refs being draconian on offside. Benefit of the doubt is against the defence. People rave about top players being able to work wonders with half a yard of space, so give them it by being absolutely rigid on offside. It’ll be a penalty fest to begin with but then players will adapt.
Yep. That and refs penalising instead of saying ‘hands off’ would do wonders, imo.
I agree, but there was a directive from World Rugby that refs should manage games as a spectacle, hence the coaching of players from refs even at the level of the World Cup final. The blame for this one resides firmly with World Rugby.
Have to keep playing please, otherwise we just have more penalties and then more kicking which no-one enjoys.

A full penalty for every defender timing his jackal off by just a mili-second is unfair anyway. Turnovers are all defenders have to win back possession now that they can’t ruck….. :cry:
yermum
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Team weight limit.
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Guy Smiley
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yermum wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:40 am Team weight limit.
It's a game for all shapes and sizes, remember?

Weight limits work at age grade levels but trying to enforce that at professional level would fuck the game. You start prescribing stuff like that and you end up with a monocultural mess of repeat pattern clone contests.
I like neeps
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Gatland complaining about boring rugby is incredibly ironic.

But, thanks to him and others rugby is getting very boring. I'd suggest

For more fluid and attacking rugby as there is space:
Every non scrum penalty in the 22 is a yellow card.
Penalties are only worth 2 points and conversions worth 3 - priority is tries.

To stop big teams milking the clock:
TMO time limit of one minute
Lineout set up to throw is 1 minute otherwise penalty
Players down injured have to miss the next phase of play like in football or NFL.
Players who go down holding their head automatically have a HIA
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