Stop voting for fucking Tories

[weegie01]

I know. But people always make the ‘he invested at a smart time’ argument, even though it’s bs. But again, it’s the emphasis that I think is important - the dead aren’t paying tax, the living are. And the living definitely didn’t earn it.

The tax is paid by the estate, not the recipient(s). The beneficiaries have no tax liability, the liability is on the estate and the executor has to discharge it. Nor is it a tax on a transfer as you say above. It is a tax on dying, after it is paid the money gets distributed.

That’s the way it’s set up, but it’s dumb to think of the dead paying tax. It’s being paid by the living, and frankly should be structured that way.

Regardless of that, you can’t say that it’s ever unaffordable or casting anyone into poverty.

Why is it dumb to think of it operating the way it was set up? It is explicitly a charge on the estate of the dead, not on the living recipients.

Who has said it is unaffordable or casting anyone into poverty?

[Biffer]

The tax is paid by the estate, not the recipient(s). The beneficiaries have no tax liability, the liability is on the estate and the executor has to discharge it. Nor is it a tax on a transfer as you say above. It is a tax on dying, after it is paid the money gets distributed.

That’s the way it’s set up, but it’s dumb to think of the dead paying tax. It’s being paid by the living, and frankly should be structured that way.

Regardless of that, you can’t say that it’s ever unaffordable or casting anyone into poverty.

Why is it dumb to think of it operating the way it was set up? It is explicitly a charge on the estate of the dead, not on the living recipients.

Who has said it is unaffordable or casting anyone into poverty?

What I’m saying is it should be set up as a tax on unearned income. In the meantime I don’t have any sympathy for anyone complaining about it.

[shaggy]

Very predictable responses. None of which invalidate the position that many of the people/families impacted will not be ‘rich’.

‘Impacted’ ffs this is all financial upside for beneficiaries- the only ‘impact’ is they will receive a bit less - many people -less than 4% the population? - how do you define rich in this circumstance?

I am not the one defining those subject to IHT as rich.

Maybe those who have used it can provide a defnition?

[weegie01]

The average total net wealth per household in the UK is c£300k.

If you have a net worth of c£1m then you are in the top 15% of the UK in terms of net wealth. If you have a net worth of c£1.4m then you are in the top 10% ie the rich end!

It suits the ‘it is only a few people’ rhetoric to use the whole population as a comparator. But it is the wrong comparator to use in a conversation about death taxes.
It would be a valid comparator if death was spread evenly across the population, which it is clearly not. Death occurs overwhelmingly amongst the older cohort, so in a conversation about death taxes, the wealth of those above 65 (for example) is a more accurate comparator. That group have had a lifetime to acquire wealth, wealth is concentrated in that group compared to the population as a whole, and thus the number of £1m plus estates in that group will be much higher than the UK as a whole.

If you are interested in a true comparison for IHT, maybe use the older cohort as a comparator and you might find the £1m plus estates are not as much of an outlier as you think.

So in reality most folk will not pay any IHT - 96% didnt in last tax year. Those that do pay IHT will probably have used up all these tax free exemptions and even after that these their estate was still large enough to incur IHT on any amount over and above the tax free element.

And the point that keeps getting made is that the number of people who pay IHT is low because it is so easy to avoid, not that so few people fall into the relevant group. Those with reasonable wealth avoid it, it falls on those who do not have the ability to do so. One of the reasons it is a bad tax is it hits the wrong people.

[TheNatalShark]

Scrap IHT and treat any amounts left to individuals as taxable income with a 200k exemption.

If you want, you can have a separate tax banding. Apply it to gifts as well to avoid admin on gifts within 7 years blah blah blah.

[Paddington Bear]

‘It only really affects London and the SE’ is to an extent true, but London and the SE is what? 30% of the country’s population? Maybe more now? To counter the obvious response, yes I am aware that not every one of those 30% has a large IHT liability. The point stands - something that affects London and the SE affects a large amount of the country and can’t be considered niche, particularly at an election where a lot of the Tory held seats in this area are in play.


Anyway, Happy New Year all, I’m sure in 2024 someone will change their mind on an issue as a result of a post in this thread

[Prembore]

Anyway, Happy New Year all, I’m sure in 2024 someone will change their mind on an issue as a result of a post in this thread

If I were a floating voter I think the sheer weight of preening piety in this thread would make me plump for the Tories.

[Sandstorm]

Anyway, Happy New Year all, I’m sure in 2024 someone will change their mind on an issue as a result of a post in this thread

If I were a floating voter I think the sheer weight of preening piety in this thread would make me plump for the Tories.

If you’re a floating voter after the last 5 years of Tory Govt, then you’re either just out of a coma or a cnut.

[C69]

Latest polls showing a 6 point lead for labour in Scotland now.
Worse to come for the Govt with NHS pay strikes likely again and 1m seeing fixed rate mortgages ending this year and today's 5% increase in energy costs.

[Biffer]

Latest polls showing a 6 point lead for labour in Scotland now.
Worse to come for the Govt with NHS pay strikes likely again and 1m seeing fixed rate mortgages ending this year and today's 5% increase in energy costs.

Have to point out there haven’t been any NHS strikes in Scotland so ‘again’ seems a bit odd. Others are outwith Scot gov control.

[C69]

Latest polls showing a 6 point lead for labour in Scotland now.
Worse to come for the Govt with NHS pay strikes likely again and 1m seeing fixed rate mortgages ending this year and today's 5% increase in energy costs.

Have to point out there haven’t been any NHS strikes in Scotland so ‘again’ seems a bit odd. Others are outwith Scot gov control.

My quote about the NHS strikes highlights what is expected to happen in England.

[Insane_Homer]

BREAKING: Tory MP for Kingswood resigns the Conservative whip with immediate effect AND will QUIT parliament as "soon as possible" causing another by-election nightmare for Rishi Sunak.

[fishfoodie]

BREAKING: Tory MP for Kingswood resigns the Conservative whip with immediate effect AND will QUIT parliament as "soon as possible" causing another by-election nightmare for Rishi Sunak.

A Tory quitting because they can't square the Leaderships actions with their own conscience; & they might not be lying

Is this a sign of the coming apocalypse ?

[ASMO]

BREAKING: Tory MP for Kingswood resigns the Conservative whip with immediate effect AND will QUIT parliament as "soon as possible" causing another by-election nightmare for Rishi Sunak.

Caught fingering little boys/girls?

[sockwithaticket]

BREAKING: Tory MP for Kingswood resigns the Conservative whip with immediate effect AND will QUIT parliament as "soon as possible" causing another by-election nightmare for Rishi Sunak.

A Tory quitting because they can't square the Leaderships actions with their own conscience; & they might not be lying

Is this a sign of the coming apocalypse ?

Yeah, in fairness to him he's been on the right side of this issue for a while. Done a lot of cross-party work to create the net zero stuff that was signed into law under May and continued to do so.

Says a lot that Caroline Lucas spoke up in praise of him

Caroline Lucas, Green MP for Brighton Pavilion, said: “Memo to Rishi Sunak – this is what principled politics looks like. It has been a real pleasure working with Chris Skidmore on climate and he’ll be much missed. It’s a huge indictment of a government that is maxing out fossil fuels.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... cence-plan

[TheNatalShark]

Pretty good

[C69]

Pretty good

It's amusing but factually shite.

[Camroc2]

Pretty good

It's amusing but factually shite.

Anyone who thinks that Sinn Féin are in any way libertarian needs their head examined. More tightly controlled than the Chinese Communist Party.

[fishfoodie]

Anyone who thinks that Sinn Féin are in any way libertarian needs their head examined. More tightly controlled than the Chinese Communist Party.

Yeah, they actually overlap with the Galloway fans, so it's 180 degrees wrong.

[_Os_]

We're now not many days into the 15th calendar year of Tory rule. Sunak has already decided it was a good idea to "privately" talk to Cummings, a man it's blatantly obvious struggles with keeping anything private. He is also rebooting himself yet again and committing to cutting welfare spending to cut taxes, a proposition that anyone with any familiarity with UK polling knows has under 10% polling support, the vast majority in the UK always want taxes maintained or increased so that services are never cut (it's usually "increase taxes to maintain/increase services" which polls highest, but during a lot of the 2010s it was "maintain taxes to maintain services"). Seems an election isn't coming in the first half of the year and there's talk of December.

There's two possibilities.

1. Sunak doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, and whatever advisors he has are young/stupid and unable to add much. So he's flopping around, the 5 pledges, then other random pledges no one remembers when the original 5 pledges became difficult. Saying the UK had undergone 30 years of failure then getting Cameron onboard not long after.

2. Sunak has given up on governing the UK. He's going to do lots of mad shit for the whole year, fully aware he'll lose a general election. Because all he cares about is placating Tory members and winning a future leadership election. Among far right loonies he's regarded as a socialist, because he hasn't gone on a Truss style unfunded tax cutting bender. Which means he's going to cut the welfare state to cut taxes until no one is calling him a socialist. Then onto whatever stage the Rwanda scheme has reached and shovelling £100s of millions into that, something he is known to think is mad and unworkable, but something he's doing because he knows Tory members love it. Probably what motivated him axing HS2, there's plenty of NIMBY Tory members (investment decisions would've been made based on it happening, and investors now know any largescale infrastructure project in the UK probably doesn't happen as any PM during its implementation can shit can it without consulting anyone or any institution being able to stop the PM, Sunak didn't care).

... I used to think it was 1 but I'm leaning towards 2 now, his entire platform was "I'm sensible not a wild Truss tax cutter" now he's saying cut every tax possible. That's not about winning a general election, it's about winning a Tory leadership contest. If that's his plan then he'll do Truss like damage but Tory members will love it. All so he can lose a general election, then lose the Tory leadership contest, and then emigrate to America to do tech bro stuff. If he cared about the UK at all he would've already held a general election, at the very least he would've committed to a date.

[TheNatalShark]

Anyone who thinks that Sinn Féin are in any way libertarian needs their head examined. More tightly controlled than the Chinese Communist Party.

Yeah, they actually overlap with the Galloway fans, so it's 180 degrees wrong.

It's UK twitter, not the actual party. I almost always see UK twitter types that blather about Sinn Fein thinking they are libertarians based on absolutely nothing

Some are dumb or could be in opposite sections, but have to cut the line somewhere

[sockwithaticket]

Sunak knows exactly what he's doing - continuing to facilitate the reward of Tory donors and mates via the public purse for as long as possible until the inevitable electoral defeat at the end of this parliament.

He's crap at throwing up a smoke screen around those efforts or simply doesn't care about doing so.

[Hal Jordan]

He'll go once he's secured a huge stipend for his family under the guise of a deal with India which will no doubt utterly fuck us, but hey, he and his own need the money, right?

And the country will continue to fall apart at the seams, and a lot of.people will get badly affected by the lack of governance and the mindless culture war bullshit from the likes of Badenoch.

[Biffer]

Pretty good

It's amusing but factually shite.

Yeah, putting all Scottish nationalists in one box is just another demonstration of how Labour people in England don't understand Scottish politics.

[dpedin]

Labour and Starmer just need to avoid any fuck ups and leave the Squatter and his mates to keep digging their own graves. The last thing they want is to get involved in any spat be it culture wars type stuff or whatever. The Tory twats will continue to ramp up the right wing populist rhetoric and try and draw Starmer and his party out into the open for a full on fight. The Tories are desperate to try and draw clear dividing lines between themselves and the Labour Party, hence the continual throwbacks to Corbyn. socialism, etc but Labour just need to stay stum and stay focused on the Gov failings. It will of course lead to accusations that no-one knows what Starmer stands for and accuse him a lacking detailed policies but that is the price they are willing to pay. Why take away the Tories spade when they are busy digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves? Labour know the right wing Tory supporting press will jump onto anything that they think will help the Tories so Labour are desperate to hold the line, avoid any major policy differences and let the press do their best with made up stories. Labour know that the Tories and their press buddies have built up a bank of dirt on the Labour Party and know it will get dirty but they will try and stay high as the Tories go lower. Labour are desperate to appear as the sensible, calm, serious party in contrast to the nutters and crooks of the past 14 years of Tories, and will leave all the bullshit to the Tories who will become increasingly mad and bad as the election gets closer.

The Tories will go to extremes to try and hold onto power and will throw every right wing, racist, fascist, populist grenade they have in the armory at Labour - they are seriously desperate! They know that they are in real danger of sliding into oblivion, particularly as their criminal cronyism is exposed once Labour get into power. Any serious investigation into the PPE VIP lanes will inevitably lead to criminal prosecutions, publication of the Russian Report will have heads rolling and destroy the Brexit result. They know Labour will try and clear the decks of any inherited shite and use it to attack the Tories and they are shitting themselves. The Tories will therefore salt the ground and try and lay as many mantraps as they can for Labour in the next 6-9 months in order to vainly protect themselves. The Tory MPs who have any sense of reality and good connections elsewhere have already made plans and declared they are off, others will declare they are not standing in the next few months. The Squatter will be off to California faster than Cameron was to his gypsy caravan. In the lead up to the election the Tory Party will be left fighting the election with a rump of sitting MPs who are at the extreme end of the party and who have no where else to go, a few moderates and a bunch of nutters as new candidates who are in the 30p Anderson mould. After their loss there will then be an almighty internal fight with the tories splitting into two - the new Reform Party, led by Farage, and the bare bones of the old traditional Tory Party ie the Whigs.

Its going to be very messy!

[C69]

Labour and Starmer just need to avoid any fuck ups and leave the Squatter and his mates to keep digging their own graves. The last thing they want is to get involved in any spat be it culture wars type stuff or whatever. The Tory twats will continue to ramp up the right wing populist rhetoric and try and draw Starmer and his party out into the open for a full on fight. The Tories are desperate to try and draw clear dividing lines between themselves and the Labour Party, hence the continual throwbacks to Corbyn. socialism, etc but Labour just need to stay stum and stay focused on the Gov failings. It will of course lead to accusations that no-one knows what Starmer stands for and accuse him a lacking detailed policies but that is the price they are willing to pay. Why take away the Tories spade when they are busy digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves? Labour know the right wing Tory supporting press will jump onto anything that they think will help the Tories so Labour are desperate to hold the line, avoid any major policy differences and let the press do their best with made up stories. Labour know that the Tories and their press buddies have built up a bank of dirt on the Labour Party and know it will get dirty but they will try and stay high as the Tories go lower. Labour are desperate to appear as the sensible, calm, serious party in contrast to the nutters and crooks of the past 14 years of Tories, and will leave all the bullshit to the Tories who will become increasingly mad and bad as the election gets closer.

The Tories will go to extremes to try and hold onto power and will throw every right wing, racist, fascist, populist grenade they have in the armory at Labour - they are seriously desperate! They know that they are in real danger of sliding into oblivion, particularly as their criminal cronyism is exposed once Labour get into power. Any serious investigation into the PPE VIP lanes will inevitably lead to criminal prosecutions, publication of the Russian Report will have heads rolling and destroy the Brexit result. They know Labour will try and clear the decks of any inherited shite and use it to attack the Tories and they are shitting themselves. The Tories will therefore salt the ground and try and lay as many mantraps as they can for Labour in the next 6-9 months in order to vainly protect themselves. The Tory MPs who have any sense of reality and good connections elsewhere have already made plans and declared they are off, others will declare they are not standing in the next few months. The Squatter will be off to California faster than Cameron was to his gypsy caravan. In the lead up to the election the Tory Party will be left fighting the election with a rump of sitting MPs who are at the extreme end of the party and who have no where else to go, a few moderates and a bunch of nutters as new candidates who are in the 30p Anderson mould. After their loss there will then be an almighty internal fight with the tories splitting into two - the new Reform Party, led by Farage, and the bare bones of the old traditional Tory Party ie the Whigs.

Its going to be very messy!

Very messy with most of the NHS staff taking industrial action.

[sefton]

The contempt they have for the electorate.

The partner of disgraced ex-Tory MP Peter Bone has been chosen as the Conservative candidate to replace him in the Wellingborough by-election.

Helen Harrison, who is a Conservative councillor in Wellingborough's North Northamptonshire area, was selected by members of the party on Sunday afternoon, according to party chair Richard Holden.

[Paddington Bear]

The contempt they have for the electorate.

The partner of disgraced ex-Tory MP Peter Bone has been chosen as the Conservative candidate to replace him in the Wellingborough by-election.

Helen Harrison, who is a Conservative councillor in Wellingborough's North Northamptonshire area, was selected by members of the party on Sunday afternoon, according to party chair Richard Holden.

Bone threatened to run as an independent if she wasn’t chosen. You’ve got to laugh, limping off the stage with no dignity at all, staring down the barrel of a defeat that will render them unelectable for a generation

[dpedin]

The contempt they have for the electorate.

The partner of disgraced ex-Tory MP Peter Bone has been chosen as the Conservative candidate to replace him in the Wellingborough by-election.

Helen Harrison, who is a Conservative councillor in Wellingborough's North Northamptonshire area, was selected by members of the party on Sunday afternoon, according to party chair Richard Holden.

Bone threatened to run as an independent if she wasn’t chosen. You’ve got to laugh, limping off the stage with no dignity at all, staring down the barrel of a defeat that will render them unelectable for a generation

They have literally no self awareness nor insight into how they are viewed by the public at large. Tory Party HQ must be fizzing at this. As I said earlier all Starmer has to do is stand back and let them self-emollate, so far they are doing a wonderful job!

[Tichtheid]

The latest polls have Labour on 47% and 25% of those asked are admitting that they will still vote Tory, even after the last near 14 years they are still going to vote for them

[Biffer]

The latest polls have Labour on 47% and 25% of those asked are admitting that they will still vote Tory, even after the last near 14 years they are still going to vote for them

25% of the population is either paranoid loonies or proudly selfish and fuck everyone else.

[Paddington Bear]

The contempt they have for the electorate.

Bone threatened to run as an independent if she wasn’t chosen. You’ve got to laugh, limping off the stage with no dignity at all, staring down the barrel of a defeat that will render them unelectable for a generation

They have literally no self awareness nor insight into how they are viewed by the public at large. Tory Party HQ must be fizzing at this. As I said earlier all Starmer has to do is stand back and let them self-emollate, so far they are doing a wonderful job!

Starmer is on the cusp of winning a majority beyond 1997, if he manages to keep his party sane for a few more months.

Chesham and Amersham, where I grew up, has already gone Lib Dem albeit in a by-election. It was at one point I believe the safest Tory seat in the country. Across the ‘blue wall’ where I live this stands to repeat itself. One of my neighbours is a Tory member and was saying they’re aware they could lose this seat (Blair never even got close here), but don’t have the numbers to campaign properly. Tories face existential wipeout.

[fishfoodie]

The contempt they have for the electorate.

Bone threatened to run as an independent if she wasn’t chosen. You’ve got to laugh, limping off the stage with no dignity at all, staring down the barrel of a defeat that will render them unelectable for a generation

They have literally no self awareness nor insight into how they are viewed by the public at large. Tory Party HQ must be fizzing at this. As I said earlier all Starmer has to do is stand back and let them self-emollate, so far they are doing a wonderful job!

Well the residents of Dover quite happily elected the wife of a rapist, so why the hell not go for it ?

[_Os_]

Just seen this:

"UK government ministers are quietly working on a major loosening of budget rules for local councils, giving them the ability to sell assets to fund front-line services and helping to stave off a wave of bankruptcies.
The measures if adopted could unlock £23 billion to help stabilize the budgets of local government authorities and reduce the risk of financial chaos in the months leading up to the next general election."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nkruptcies

Further back in the thread I explained how a major reason behind rising corruption at council level was the Tories abolishing the audit commission during austerity (it appointed auditors, set standards, and generally oversaw the work), this was all replaced by a mess of ad hoc NGOs/non-profits/private sector/nothing at all. Some of the local government bankruptcy problem is about not having the money, but in some councils it's definitely about corruption and stacking up suspicious giant debts.

The new Tory solution for all this is further loosening the rules, this time around privatisation. The best case from this plan, is that assets of councils will be hoovered up by asset management companies which will milk them for profit (the same model as the water/energy/rail companies).

There's going to be an entity called the council that has a huge debt, owns no assets, and provides limited services. Council tax will still have to be paid, which will amount to paying £50-£100 per bin collection. In reality the council will not do much. Any former council service provided at a discount to the market rate or for free, will only be accessed at huge cost through the new private owner. Residents that need or want the service end up paying twice (the old council tax and the new private fee). And that's if the residents are fortunate, more likely is some Tory asset management company acquires the leisure centre/golf course/library/park/theatre and then it all becomes houses. Higher density living with less services.

... It's almost like the Tories never stop thinking up ways to lower the quality of life in the UK.

[Biffer]

Just seen this:

"UK government ministers are quietly working on a major loosening of budget rules for local councils, giving them the ability to sell assets to fund front-line services and helping to stave off a wave of bankruptcies.
The measures if adopted could unlock £23 billion to help stabilize the budgets of local government authorities and reduce the risk of financial chaos in the months leading up to the next general election."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nkruptcies

Further back in the thread I explained how a major reason behind rising corruption at council level was the Tories abolishing the audit commission during austerity (it appointed auditors, set standards, and generally oversaw the work), this was all replaced by a mess of ad hoc NGOs/non-profits/private sector/nothing at all. Some of the local government bankruptcy problem is about not having the money, but in some councils it's definitely about corruption and stacking up suspicious giant debts.

The new Tory solution for all this is further loosening the rules, this time around privatisation. The best case from this plan, is that assets of councils will be hoovered up by asset management companies which will milk them for profit (the same model as the water/energy/rail companies).

There's going to be an entity called the council that has a huge debt, owns no assets, and provides limited services. Council tax will still have to be paid, which will amount to paying £50-£100 per bin collection. In reality the council will not do much. Any former council service provided at a discount to the market rate or for free, will only be accessed at huge cost through the new private owner. Residents that need or want the service end up paying twice (the old council tax and the new private fee). And that's if the residents are fortunate, more likely is some Tory asset management company acquires the leisure centre/golf course/library/park/theatre and then it all becomes houses. Higher density living with less services.

... It's almost like the Tories never stop thinking up ways to lower the quality of life in the UK.

The fucking idiocy of it. The reason our public finances are in a mess is because we’ve been using one off sources of income to fund ongoing public service commitments. So they get funded for a few years but then you’re fucked again. We’ve been doing this so long, using oil income, privatisation income, and borrowing, that we’ve got used to have a level of public services that doesn’t align with our tax burden. This will make that even worse.

And of course it aligns with the extreme small govt types who want to strip the national assets bare because they can’t abide something of any value sitting there and not making profit for someone.

[dpedin]

Just seen this:

"UK government ministers are quietly working on a major loosening of budget rules for local councils, giving them the ability to sell assets to fund front-line services and helping to stave off a wave of bankruptcies.
The measures if adopted could unlock £23 billion to help stabilize the budgets of local government authorities and reduce the risk of financial chaos in the months leading up to the next general election."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nkruptcies

Further back in the thread I explained how a major reason behind rising corruption at council level was the Tories abolishing the audit commission during austerity (it appointed auditors, set standards, and generally oversaw the work), this was all replaced by a mess of ad hoc NGOs/non-profits/private sector/nothing at all. Some of the local government bankruptcy problem is about not having the money, but in some councils it's definitely about corruption and stacking up suspicious giant debts.

The new Tory solution for all this is further loosening the rules, this time around privatisation. The best case from this plan, is that assets of councils will be hoovered up by asset management companies which will milk them for profit (the same model as the water/energy/rail companies).

There's going to be an entity called the council that has a huge debt, owns no assets, and provides limited services. Council tax will still have to be paid, which will amount to paying £50-£100 per bin collection. In reality the council will not do much. Any former council service provided at a discount to the market rate or for free, will only be accessed at huge cost through the new private owner. Residents that need or want the service end up paying twice (the old council tax and the new private fee). And that's if the residents are fortunate, more likely is some Tory asset management company acquires the leisure centre/golf course/library/park/theatre and then it all becomes houses. Higher density living with less services.

... It's almost like the Tories never stop thinking up ways to lower the quality of life in the UK.

The fucking idiocy of it. The reason our public finances are in a mess is because we’ve been using one off sources of income to fund ongoing public service commitments. So they get funded for a few years but then you’re fucked again. We’ve been doing this so long, using oil income, privatisation income, and borrowing, that we’ve got used to have a level of public services that doesn’t align with our tax burden. This will make that even worse.

And of course it aligns with the extreme small govt types who want to strip the national assets bare because they can’t abide something of any value sitting there and not making profit for someone.

Agree - nothing left to privatize now apart from Local Gov assets!

The UK is a rich country and we raise huge amounts in tax etc but could raise significant more legally if we pursued tax avoidance, big businesses, non does, offshoring, etc. The bigger issue however is what our Gov spend our money on.

[Paddington Bear]

Anyone seen Mr Bates vs the Post Office? I followed some of the court case but fuck me it makes your blood boil

[weegie01]

Anyone seen Mr Bates vs the Post Office? I followed some of the court case but fuck me it makes your blood boil

Having worked in some large corporates, it is remarkable the degree to which people can become institutionalised. In this case I would bet good money that even some of the more egregious issues were down to Post office employees being actually incapable of believing the Post Office got it wrong, and for many who did the paramount issue would be protecting the Post Office.

But yes, it was good.

[SaintK]

Anyone seen Mr Bates vs the Post Office? I followed some of the court case but fuck me it makes your blood boil

I've been following it for years in Private Eye. The ongoing dithering and delays to overturning the convictions and paying compensation is a fucking disgrace.

[yermum]

Anyone seen Mr Bates vs the Post Office? I followed some of the court case but fuck me it makes your blood boil

Amazing how Adam Crozier wasn't mentioned at all.

wonder where he worked after he left the Royal Mail:

Crozier was CEO of Royal Mail at a crucial period in the Post Office scandal when the Post Office was still part of Royal Mail, in which hundreds of sub-postmasters were falsely accused of, and prosecuted for, theft or false accounting. Prosecutions were conducted based on revenue shortfalls identified by the Post Office's Horizon computer system. These were erroneous and the result of bugs and errors in the system.[15] Post Office officials knew about the bugs as early as 2002, but chose to continue with the prosecutions regardless.[16]

ITV
Crozier left the Royal Mail in 2010 to become the chief executive of media group ITV plc.[17][18]

ITV plc is one of three partners within ITV Network Limited, the not-for-profit organisation which runs the ITV television network, the United Kingdom's first commercial network effectively created under the Television Act 1954. Crozier was replacing Michael Grade, who announced his intention to leave in April 2009.[18] Crozier was given the task of increasing ITV's advertising revenues which had fallen with the proliferation of new channels in the British television market.[18] On announcing the appointment, ITV chairman Archie Norman said of Crozier that he is a "very strong leader with a great track record in delivering transformational change".[18]