Stop voting for fucking Tories

[petej]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

[Paddington Bear]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

No doubt at all. There’s only so many grad jobs in our economy

[_Os_]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

I think I've pointed it out once or twice?

Exeter was mentioned in the article, lets hypothetically say it goes bust because without foreign students the finance model doesn't work. Do you think it's allowed to fold, how much of a free market do you think it really is? Probably the government step in and dictate what the banks can or can't do (jobs, the local community, etc), it's cut to the bone and continues as a much weaker institution. Anyone with an Exeter degree is also potentially downgraded over time (mileage may vary depending on work experience etc).

The other way "let them fold" doesn't work, is you still need a new funding model to maintain the unis without foreign students. Which unless you're pushing for government ownership (are you?) means higher UK student fees. The average UK house price is £300k, average salary is £33k, average life time earnings is £600k. There's a maximum debt carrying capacity an average person can take. Lumping £45k+ of inflation linked student debt onto half the young population, to reduce foreign students, will likely have the unintended consequence of increasing immigration. Someone that indebted with likely limited earning power (only 10% earn £60k+), isn't having children or is emigrating, both will mean more immigration.

If your answer is no foreign students, no new government funding, and no increased UK student debt. Then the quality of UK education declines regardless, either outright (unis are lower quality) or relatively (less people go to uni). Guess how the UK government will fix that problem without funding unis more or increasing UK student debt? More immigrants.

[C69]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

That's a pretty crass and patronising post tbh.
It's very passive aggressive in its nature and adds nothing to by he debate, what happens when the Unis close?
Massive job losses and no real jobs.

[_Os_]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

No doubt at all. There’s only so many grad jobs in our economy

If Mr.Bear has children, and they want to study history/media/art/ etc etc. They should be barred. Instead his children should go into a services dominated economy where all those degrees give them an entry ticket, and they should compete against both British and immigrants who have degrees when they do not.

Doesn't really work when it's put into those specific terms. Only works when people you don't care about have to sacrifice.

[sockwithaticket]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

I think I've pointed it out once or twice?

Exeter was mentioned in the article, lets hypothetically say it goes bust because without foreign students the finance model doesn't work. Do you think it's allowed to fold, how much of a free market do you think it really is? Probably the government step in and dictate what the banks can or can't do (jobs, the local community, etc), it's cut to the bone and continues as a much weaker institution. Anyone with an Exeter degree is also potentially downgraded over time (mileage may vary depending on work experience etc).

The other way "let them fold" doesn't work, is you still need a new funding model to maintain the unis without foreign students. Which unless you're pushing for government ownership (are you?) means higher UK student fees. The average UK house price is £300k, average salary is £33k, average life time earnings is £600k. There's a maximum debt carrying capacity an average person can take. Lumping £45k+ of inflation linked student debt onto half the young population, to reduce foreign students, will likely have the unintended consequence of increasing immigration. Someone that indebted with likely limited earning power (only 10% earn £60k+), isn't having children or is emigrating, both will mean more immigration.

If your answer is no foreign students, no new government funding, and no increased UK student debt. Then the quality of UK education declines regardless, either outright (unis are lower quality) or relatively (less people go to uni). Guess how the UK government will fix that problem without funding unis more or increasing UK student debt? More immigrants.

Exeter is currently 15th out of 121 on the Guardian's table. It's not the likes of them that go under in a 'let them fold' situation, it's Bedfordshire, Westminster, De Montfort etc. who go.

As the article notes, UK student numbers going to university are falling. A lot of the work force areas with skill shortages don't need a degree and it seems some are waking up to that. The UK may be heavily service based, but those aren't the only decently to well paying jobs on offer.

On top of that employers for a long time now have been pitching sub-sub-median wage, entry level office jobs as requiring a degree when they simply don't. Those employers will have to adjust their requirements.

[Biffer]

Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

No doubt at all. There’s only so many grad jobs in our economy

But there should be more. We can, and should have more high tech high value jobs in this country, and universities can help to create them, by helping create startups and spin outs. But tge way IP ownership is set up / approached by the unis is often fucking pointless, and many academics approach spin out companies as a vehicle to help their research, rather than as viable companies that can grow.

[_Os_]

Exeter is currently 15th out of 121 on the Guardian's table. It's not the likes of them that go under in a 'let them fold' situation, it's Bedfordshire, Westminster, De Montfort etc. who go.

As the article notes, UK student numbers going to university are falling. A lot of the work force areas with skill shortages don't need a degree and it seems some are waking up to that. The UK may be heavily service based, but those aren't the only decently to well paying jobs on offer.

On top of that employers for a long time now have been pitching sub-sub-median wage, entry level office jobs as requiring a degree when they simply don't. Those employers will have to adjust their requirements.

So they're not all going to be allowed to fold? Would it be legal to save the ones you like and not the ones you dislike (I have no clue)?

Sadly what you want the UK job market to be isn't what it is. It's services dominated and employers can demand a degree as a filtering method so they do. Can't see that changing anytime soon.

Actively aiming for a less educated population seems like a bad move. The problem isn't people being educated, it's the lack of investment. Cutting education to fit an environment where the private and public sector aren't investing, just looks like a recipe for stagnation.

[C69]

My daughter is applying to Cambridge for history nex year not too sure how this pans out.
Do you apply to the Uni or college etc...

[Paddington Bear]

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

No doubt at all. There’s only so many grad jobs in our economy

If Mr.Bear has children, and they want to study history/media/art/ etc etc. They should be barred. Instead his children should go into a services dominated economy where all those degrees give them an entry ticket, and they should compete against both British and immigrants who have degrees when they do not.

Doesn't really work when it's put into those specific terms. Only works when people you don't care about have to sacrifice.

Depends how smart my hypothetical kids are. An arts degree from Anglia Ruskin opens no doors for them anyway, and I’d encourage them to do something else.

[sockwithaticket]

Exeter is currently 15th out of 121 on the Guardian's table. It's not the likes of them that go under in a 'let them fold' situation, it's Bedfordshire, Westminster, De Montfort etc. who go.

As the article notes, UK student numbers going to university are falling. A lot of the work force areas with skill shortages don't need a degree and it seems some are waking up to that. The UK may be heavily service based, but those aren't the only decently to well paying jobs on offer.

On top of that employers for a long time now have been pitching sub-sub-median wage, entry level office jobs as requiring a degree when they simply don't. Those employers will have to adjust their requirements.

So they're not all going to be allowed to fold? Would it be legal to save the ones you like and not the ones you dislike (I have no clue)?

Sadly what you want the UK job market to be isn't what it is. It's services dominated and employers can demand a degree as a filtering method so they do. Can't see that changing anytime soon.

Actively aiming for a less educated population seems like a bad move. The problem isn't people being educated, it's the lack of investment. Cutting education to fit an environment where the private and public sector aren't investing, just looks like a recipe for stagnation.

It's not about liking them or not. I just don't really see a situation where if prohibited from bringing in seriously sub-standard foreign students the top 50 or so universities wouldn't find some way to comepensate. They have the reputations and connections to leverage greater industry partnerships. British students would flock upwards as far as they are able, institutions might have to open themselves up to students getting AAB - BBB instead of foreign students getting substantially worse grades in order to fill their places.

The ones without prestige and pedigree, that consistently rank low across the board from career prospects to satisfaction with teaching, would struggle to recruit and be the ones likely to fold.

It'll sound snobby, but the idea of sending as many people to uni as possible wasn't necessarily delivering a more educated population. I played football at uni with a guy doing a film studies degree who went right back to working at his local petrol station when he finished with a 2:2. He's not along in that sort of trajectory. How many sports-science degrees are really churning out a better educated population (it's a course two thirds of unis offer, vs. half offering mechanical engineering)?

We've discussed previously that I think the Tory approach to tertiary education is all wrong, there should be more government funding so that institutions don't see themselves as being reliant on foreign student fee levels. Maybe it can't be free, but it doesn't need to be the level of debt burden it currently is for most who attend. However, not all institutions are equal and fewer of the ones offering low quality teaching and low quality degrees sees more central funding to go around.

[sockwithaticket]

My daughter is applying to Cambridge for history nex year not too sure how this pans out.
Do you apply to the Uni or college etc...

Application is done via UCAS as you would for any other institution.

They then have their own thing they send out to the applicant:
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac. ... pplication

Both Oxford and Cambridge allow applicants to specify a college or submit an open application.

[petej]

Exeter is currently 15th out of 121 on the Guardian's table. It's not the likes of them that go under in a 'let them fold' situation, it's Bedfordshire, Westminster, De Montfort etc. who go.

As the article notes, UK student numbers going to university are falling. A lot of the work force areas with skill shortages don't need a degree and it seems some are waking up to that. The UK may be heavily service based, but those aren't the only decently to well paying jobs on offer.

On top of that employers for a long time now have been pitching sub-sub-median wage, entry level office jobs as requiring a degree when they simply don't. Those employers will have to adjust their requirements.

So they're not all going to be allowed to fold? Would it be legal to save the ones you like and not the ones you dislike (I have no clue)?

Sadly what you want the UK job market to be isn't what it is. It's services dominated and employers can demand a degree as a filtering method so they do. Can't see that changing anytime soon.

Actively aiming for a less educated population seems like a bad move. The problem isn't people being educated, it's the lack of investment. Cutting education to fit an environment where the private and public sector aren't investing, just looks like a recipe for stagnation.

I agree actively aiming for a less educated population is a bad move but university isn't the only way you can educate and train and you don't have to go to university straight out of school.

[_Os_]

It's not about liking them or not. I just don't really see a situation where if prohibited from bringing in seriously sub-standard foreign students the top 50 or so universities wouldn't find some way to comepensate. They have the reputations and connections to leverage greater industry partnerships. British students would flock upwards as far as they are able, institutions might have to open themselves up to students getting AAB - BBB instead of foreign students getting substantially worse grades in order to fill their places.

The UK uni sector lost £2bn 2022, 1/4 unis are loss making, it's going in the same direction as underfunded local councils.
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-13/edu ... ake-losses

The article posted by Mr.Bear has some focus on Exeter, which is obviously using foreign students to make money and help fund everything else. That is the method Exeter is using to compensate. There's a danger of slipping into unicorn thinking and deciding somehow they can find money from somewhere, when they may not be able to. Replacing foreign students with UK students may not work, because their fees are substantially lower, for every one foreign student lost two and half to four UK students would need to be added to get a similar level of fees (that scale of student increase would surely increase costs too, the shortfall in funding is about £3k per UK student).

The ones without prestige and pedigree, that consistently rank low across the board from career prospects to satisfaction with teaching, would struggle to recruit and be the ones likely to fold.

There'll be some crossover but it will not be exact. Those with the most foreign students will likely be the hardest hit, and they're not all the ones at the bottom. The worse the uni the less likely they're doing research and so the lower their costs, research isn't fully funded by the government (80% of full economic cost). A uni that does no research but owns and sweats its accommodation and catering (revenue generating assets), may be better placed than one doing a lot of research (costs). These are businesses and given the job market a degree mill is something that will have customers. Bad money can drive out good in a market, just look at the high street.

It'll sound snobby, but the idea of sending as many people to uni as possible wasn't necessarily delivering a more educated population. I played football at uni with a guy doing a film studies degree who went right back to working at his local petrol station when he finished with a 2:2. How many sports-science degrees are really churning out a better educated population (it's a course two thirds of unis offer, vs. half offering mechincal engineering)?

We've discussed previously that I think the Tory approach to tertiary education is all wrong, there should be more government funding so that institutions don't see themselves as being reliant on foreign student fee levels. Maybe it can't be free, but it doesn't need to be the level of debt burden it currently is for most who attend. However, not all institutions are equal and fewer of them offering low quality teaching and low quality degrees sees more central funding to go around.

I have some sympathy for the films studies guy, it's not a choice I would make, but he probably had the time of his life. Those degrees can work for someone career wise but there needs to be some serious passion and/or intelligence behind it. They have to work out how to make themselves useful in the job market (and now maybe the online freelancer market too), which typically means being literate in a variety of software packages. I'm guessing knowing something about film would be useful for editing. On Indeed there's 470 vacancies for video editing within 50 miles of London. The problem with a lot of courses is they're not geared towards making money, they're not giving students all the skills they need, so when they start looking for employment they have theoretical knowledge of the subject but find a lot of what employers want ("can you use this package?") they don't have. Easy for the film studies guy to give up and go into a retail job which is paying about the same as an entry level job at least somewhat connected to his degree, obviously he's less productive for life then too.

I would favour a free/government funded system, but where students have to pay for some courses (film studies guy would be paying, which would probably mean he doesn't do it). That's not going to happen though. Using foreign students as the cash cows and also as the scape goats it is then, the cash goat funding model.

[Paddington Bear]

A big factor in the funding gap is that fees have been frozen at £9k for over a decade. I vaguely remember reading the figure if it kept up with RPI is £12-13k now, and that that would close the deficit for a large proportion of unis.

Is it worth £13k a year to get a degree from Exeter? Yes, undoubtedly. From some other places? Probably not, which leads us back to why they exist in the first place.

[C69]

My daughter is applying to Cambridge for history nex year not too sure how this pans out.
Do you apply to the Uni or college etc...

Application is done via UCAS as you would for any other institution.

They then have their own thing they send out to the applicant:
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac. ... pplication

Both Oxford and Cambridge allow applicants to specify a college or submit an open application.

Thanks

[_Os_]

A big factor in the funding gap is that fees have been frozen at £9k for over a decade. I vaguely remember reading the figure if it kept up with RPI is £12-13k now, and that that would close the deficit for a large proportion of unis.

Is it worth £13k a year to get a degree from Exeter? Yes, undoubtedly. From some other places? Probably not, which leads us back to why they exist in the first place.

We have your solution then. £40k of inflation linked student debt. Off.

Chance it could happen under the Tories, their voter demographic is older. But you can find opinions in the Telegraph along the lines of it being good if universities collapse, to end the woke menace and the reds under the bed. So maybe not.

If Labour get in there'll be a big change in orientation and which groups matter. The Tories are polling at 10% among under 50s. I don't think we'll be hearing from older people who don't want house building much. Raising student fees wouldn't be much of a vote winner with those still paying off their student debt and able to imagine it being a third larger, it would lose those acquiring a student debt outright. When the Lib Dems took the blame for raising fees they were nuked.

... The Tories have kicked a lot of cans down the road, Labour will have many fun choices along these lines to make.

[robmatic]

Exeter is currently 15th out of 121 on the Guardian's table. It's not the likes of them that go under in a 'let them fold' situation, it's Bedfordshire, Westminster, De Montfort etc. who go.

As the article notes, UK student numbers going to university are falling. A lot of the work force areas with skill shortages don't need a degree and it seems some are waking up to that. The UK may be heavily service based, but those aren't the only decently to well paying jobs on offer.

On top of that employers for a long time now have been pitching sub-sub-median wage, entry level office jobs as requiring a degree when they simply don't. Those employers will have to adjust their requirements.

So they're not all going to be allowed to fold? Would it be legal to save the ones you like and not the ones you dislike (I have no clue)?

Sadly what you want the UK job market to be isn't what it is. It's services dominated and employers can demand a degree as a filtering method so they do. Can't see that changing anytime soon.

Actively aiming for a less educated population seems like a bad move. The problem isn't people being educated, it's the lack of investment. Cutting education to fit an environment where the private and public sector aren't investing, just looks like a recipe for stagnation.

I agree actively aiming for a less educated population is a bad move but university isn't the only way you can educate and train and you don't have to go to university straight out of school.

My undergraduate degree was a complete waste of time academically, despite being STEM at a Russell Group uni. However, it was very beneficial for me in terms of getting me away from being a farmer in rural Yorkshire and enabling me to mingle with middle class people. I don't think we should discount those effects.

At the age of 40, I started doing an MSc with the Open Uni and that has been great, both personally and professionally, and I wish we in general placed more value on lifelong learning and a wider variety of types of certification.

[Paddington Bear]

A big factor in the funding gap is that fees have been frozen at £9k for over a decade. I vaguely remember reading the figure if it kept up with RPI is £12-13k now, and that that would close the deficit for a large proportion of unis.

Is it worth £13k a year to get a degree from Exeter? Yes, undoubtedly. From some other places? Probably not, which leads us back to why they exist in the first place.

We have your solution then. £40k of inflation linked student debt. Off.

Chance it could happen under the Tories, their voter demographic is older. But you can find opinions in the Telegraph along the lines of it being good if universities collapse, to end the woke menace and the reds under the bed. So maybe not.

If Labour get in there'll be a big change in orientation and which groups matter. The Tories are polling at 10% among under 50s. I don't think we'll be hearing from older people who don't want house building much. Raising student fees wouldn't be much of a vote winner with those still paying off their student debt and able to imagine it being a third larger, it would lose those acquiring a student debt outright. When the Lib Dems took the blame for raising fees they were nuked.

... The Tories have kicked a lot of cans down the road, Labour will have many fun choices along these lines to make.

I graduated a decade ago and have £40k of inflation linked student debt, we’re not talking about something new here. The question is whether said debt is a good investment or not. In my case, yes as it opened doors to every job I’ve had. But I went to a RG uni, and for others it was a poor idea.

[C69]

Loads of my daughter's friends are scared about the costs of uni.
Guess what demographic they are from?. FFS working class people are the very people who need to be populating Unis.
Academia must be preserved, so much value comes from rigorous interrogation.
Says a man with a degree and 2 useless Masters Degrees.
I'm not even engaging any more with appraisals or such bollocks.

[_Os_]

I graduated a decade ago and have £40k of inflation linked student debt, we’re not talking about something new here. The question is whether said debt is a good investment or not. In my case, yes as it opened doors to every job I’ve had. But I went to a RG uni, and for others it was a poor idea.

£40k of inflation linked debt is large. Hard to know if it would make someone think twice or not, but it's known that those more likely to be reluctant to take large debts come from less well off backgrounds. My guess is the type of people paying now will still pay almost regardless, they're paying for status which is always expensive (if it's free the status element mostly disappears).

I paid for my first degree through gambling which became a stressful undertaking, this was a running joke among Saffas on here back in the day, any match thread I was on became gambling related. There were other posters at uni and gambling a lot around that time, some Super Rugby threads were a total mess. Second degree also cash, but not through gambling thankfully. Both at Russell Group unis. Any real learning was done on my own and didn't require uni. The point is collecting tickets called degrees that the job market demands, probably a poor system but it's not changing.

Can't think of any good replacement system, but computing has strong industry qualifications which are cheapish and show an employer someone can actually do something.

[C69]

A big factor in the funding gap is that fees have been frozen at £9k for over a decade. I vaguely remember reading the figure if it kept up with RPI is £12-13k now, and that that would close the deficit for a large proportion of unis.

Is it worth £13k a year to get a degree from Exeter? Yes, undoubtedly. From some other places? Probably not, which leads us back to why they exist in the first place.

We have your solution then. £40k of inflation linked student debt. Off.

Chance it could happen under the Tories, their voter demographic is older. But you can find opinions in the Telegraph along the lines of it being good if universities collapse, to end the woke menace and the reds under the bed. So maybe not.

If Labour get in there'll be a big change in orientation and which groups matter. The Tories are polling at 10% among under 50s. I don't think we'll be hearing from older people who don't want house building much. Raising student fees wouldn't be much of a vote winner with those still paying off their student debt and able to imagine it being a third larger, it would lose those acquiring a student debt outright. When the Lib Dems took the blame for raising fees they were nuked.

... The Tories have kicked a lot of cans down the road, Labour will have many fun choices along these lines to make.

I graduated a decade ago and have £40k of inflation linked student debt, we’re not talking about something new here. The question is whether said debt is a good investment or not. In my case, yes as it opened doors to every job I’ve had. But I went to a RG uni, and for others it was a poor idea.

You voted Tory?
The debt is your yolk

[Calculon]

I'm in contact with a number of foreign students at universities around the world. The ones in the UK are at Edinburgh , UCL and Cambridge. I see a lot more complaints about the standard of tuition (including absent lecturers) and also lazy native students who don't pull their weight during group projects for the UK universities compared to others, Edinburgh being notable for the number of complaints. The Yank universities seem to be regarded the best. TBF also quite a few complaints about some of the OZ universities where the standards are really low.

[Biffer]

The tory country set would be fine with universities collapsing so long as it's post 92 or red bricks that suffer. As soon as a Russell Group or ancient is in trouble there would be howling for the government to change the system.

[Biffer]

Just seen this:

"UK government ministers are quietly working on a major loosening of budget rules for local councils, giving them the ability to sell assets to fund front-line services and helping to stave off a wave of bankruptcies.
The measures if adopted could unlock £23 billion to help stabilize the budgets of local government authorities and reduce the risk of financial chaos in the months leading up to the next general election."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nkruptcies

Further back in the thread I explained how a major reason behind rising corruption at council level was the Tories abolishing the audit commission during austerity (it appointed auditors, set standards, and generally oversaw the work), this was all replaced by a mess of ad hoc NGOs/non-profits/private sector/nothing at all. Some of the local government bankruptcy problem is about not having the money, but in some councils it's definitely about corruption and stacking up suspicious giant debts.

The new Tory solution for all this is further loosening the rules, this time around privatisation. The best case from this plan, is that assets of councils will be hoovered up by asset management companies which will milk them for profit (the same model as the water/energy/rail companies).

There's going to be an entity called the council that has a huge debt, owns no assets, and provides limited services. Council tax will still have to be paid, which will amount to paying £50-£100 per bin collection. In reality the council will not do much. Any former council service provided at a discount to the market rate or for free, will only be accessed at huge cost through the new private owner. Residents that need or want the service end up paying twice (the old council tax and the new private fee). And that's if the residents are fortunate, more likely is some Tory asset management company acquires the leisure centre/golf course/library/park/theatre and then it all becomes houses. Higher density living with less services.

... It's almost like the Tories never stop thinking up ways to lower the quality of life in the UK.

Fucking mental isn’t it.

Selling assets to pat running costs isn’t stabilisation, it’s panic asset stripping. And it’s being done because they know it’ll put the problem off for a year or so, which means they don’t have to deal with it.

[Uncle fester]

I hacked a political opponent.
Tee hee.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... dApp_Other

[dpedin]

I'm in contact with a number of foreign students at universities around the world. The ones in the UK are at Edinburgh , UCL and Cambridge. I see a lot more complaints about the standard of tuition (including absent lecturers) and also lazy native students who don't pull their weight during group projects for the UK universities compared to others, Edinburgh being notable for the number of complaints. The Yank universities seem to be regarded the best. TBF also quite a few complaints about some of the OZ universities where the standards are really low.

Agree it happens around the world. My son spent a year at Roman Business School, Toronto University on exchange from Edinburgh Uni. He said the place was full of Chinese students sent there by rich parents many of whom could barely speak English. They were then sent money by parents to buy big houses and cars. Chinese students were a cash cow. He said students were marked on participation in tutorials etc which he got top marks for because half the group were Chinese and couldn't follow the discussion nor participate in debates etc. He loved Toronto, found the Uni fantastic, the courses relatively straightforward and did well with marks which helped him get his first class honours degree. Universities are a business for many countries, if the UK decide to cut off their nose to spite their face then there are lots of other countries around the world who will pick up the slack.

[fishfoodie]

I'm in contact with a number of foreign students at universities around the world. The ones in the UK are at Edinburgh , UCL and Cambridge. I see a lot more complaints about the standard of tuition (including absent lecturers) and also lazy native students who don't pull their weight during group projects for the UK universities compared to others, Edinburgh being notable for the number of complaints. The Yank universities seem to be regarded the best. TBF also quite a few complaints about some of the OZ universities where the standards are really low.

Agree it happens around the world. My son spent a year at Roman Business School, Toronto University on exchange from Edinburgh Uni. He said the place was full of Chinese students sent there by rich parents many of whom could barely speak English. They were then sent money by parents to buy big houses and cars. Chinese students were a cash cow. He said students were marked on participation in tutorials etc which he got top marks for because half the group were Chinese and couldn't follow the discussion nor participate in debates etc. He loved Toronto, found the Uni fantastic, the courses relatively straightforward and did well with marks which helped him get his first class honours degree. Universities are a business for many countries, if the UK decide to cut off their nose to spite their face then there are lots of other countries around the world who will pick up the slack.

The question it comes back to is; what is the problem you're trying to solve ?

For the Right wing Tories, it's legal immigration numbers. They look at the number of students coming in & they decide that's too many brown people coming in, so the solution is to, "toughen up" the system. The fact is that the system was more or less created by them when the started telling the 3rd level education section, apart from the bit they all fell out of, that they had to stand on their own two feet, & be run more like businesses. The Universities responded & introduced junk food education.

Now the Tories are simultaneously wanting to reduce overseas students & create another hostile environment, & also to create a tech startup culture, which obviously will need the cooperation of the Universities, & all the while they will be using that kind & considerate bunch in the HO to screen out applicants who just want to get a job driving a cab, from those might found the next trillion dollar company.

Pardon me if I don't have full faith in their ability to not fuck this completely up, like everything else.

[fishfoodie]

Nice to see the Torygraph shitting themselves over property prices going down.

What is it, another million mortgages moving onto new rates this year ? ,maybe a quarter of those happening before any May GE

[Calculon]

I'm in contact with a number of foreign students at universities around the world. The ones in the UK are at Edinburgh , UCL and Cambridge. I see a lot more complaints about the standard of tuition (including absent lecturers) and also lazy native students who don't pull their weight during group projects for the UK universities, compared to unis in other countries . Edinburgh being notable for the number of complaints. The Yank universities seem to be regarded the best. TBF also quite a few complaints about some of the OZ universities where the standards are really low.

Agree it happens around the world. My son spent a year at Roman Business School, Toronto University on exchange from Edinburgh Uni. He said the place was full of Chinese students sent there by rich parents many of whom could barely speak English. They were then sent money by parents to buy big houses and cars. Chinese students were a cash cow. He said students were marked on participation in tutorials etc which he got top marks for because half the group were Chinese and couldn't follow the discussion nor participate in debates etc. He loved Toronto, found the Uni fantastic, the courses relatively straightforward and did well with marks which helped him get his first class honours degree. Universities are a business for many countries, if the UK decide to cut off their nose to spite their face then there are lots of other countries around the world who will pick up the slack.

UK unis have an advantage of US ones cos they are much cheaper, but if somewhere like Edinburgh gains a poor reputation amongst the "international" schools in China that supplies overseas unis those numbers of Chinese students can drop fairly rapidly. There's also the fact that the UKs reputation vis a vis the States has suffered over the last couple of years. In fact it's more that the US has come back into fashion in China. Also, economic and demographics issues means the number of Chinese students going overseas are likely to decrease pretty soon. You're already seeing it with a decrease in these "international" Chinese schools that offer A levels, IB, AP, and GAC. So relying on Chinese students and their money, IMO, is fairly risky for UK unis.

[Hal Jordan]

Nice to see the Torygraph shitting themselves over property prices going down.

What is it, another million mortgages moving onto new rates this year ? ,maybe a quarter of those happening before any May GE

Depending on when in May, that includes mine...

[lemonhead]

I hacked a political opponent.
Tee hee.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... dApp_Other

she later gave an anonymous interview revealing that Harman’s username and password were “harriet” and “harman”

That did raise a smile, in fairness

[fishfoodie]

I hacked a political opponent.
Tee hee.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... dApp_Other

she later gave an anonymous interview revealing that Harman’s username and password were “harriet” and “harman”

That did raise a smile, in fairness

login:asmo
password: [tappity tappity tap tap]

Ah Ha ! I knew his password was “Brannigan”, now I HAVE THE CODEZ MWWWWWWAH HA HA

[sefton]

Nice to see the Torygraph shitting themselves over property prices going down.

What is it, another million mortgages moving onto new rates this year ? ,maybe a quarter of those happening before any May GE

Won’t anybody think of George Freeman?

[fishfoodie]

Nice to see the Torygraph shitting themselves over property prices going down.

What is it, another million mortgages moving onto new rates this year ? ,maybe a quarter of those happening before any May GE

Won’t anybody think of George Freeman?

Yeah, I saw that article, my first reaction was his salary isn't enough because he got divorced, & suddenly found himself needing to get a mortgage rather late in his career with a shit load of deductions already coming out of his salary.

[sockwithaticket]

Good discussion here about how the conservatives have, despite their protestations of bias, infiltrated and controlled the BBC, largely via one man.

[mat the expat]

Universities are a business for many countries, if the UK decide to cut off their nose to spite their face then there are lots of other countries around the world who will pick up the slack.

Lol, UK Universities have been businesses since the Student Loan Company was created

[SaintK]

Nice to see the Torygraph shitting themselves over property prices going down.

What is it, another million mortgages moving onto new rates this year ? ,maybe a quarter of those happening before any May GE

Won’t anybody think of George Freeman?

Yeah, I saw that article, my first reaction was his salary isn't enough because he got divorced, & suddenly found himself needing to get a mortgage rather late in his career with a shit load of deductions already coming out of his salary.

At least he can now moonlight with second, third and fourth jobs as he is no longer a minister!

[SaintK]

Who'd have guessed it, another new low!!!!

The UK has fallen to its lowest-ever position in Transparency International’s corruption perceptions index, which ranks countries by experts’ views of possible corruption in public services.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20 ... rnational

[tabascoboy]

Who'd have guessed it, another new low!!!!

The UK has fallen to its lowest-ever position in Transparency International’s corruption perceptions index, which ranks countries by experts’ views of possible corruption in public services.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20 ... rnational

"World-beating"...