The Official English Rugby Thread

[Sinkers]

Latest list. Actually pleasantly surprised by how many have picked up contracts already before the end of July. It looks like most of the senior squad will before the start of the season (albeit with the upheaval of unplanned moves and potential pay cuts). A few of those left like Loader and Collins sound like they have signed and are just waiting for announcements. Can't imagine the like of WGC, Ruiz, Basham and Morisi will have too much of an issue.

The others are likely struggling for prem or equivalent gigs.

Still some good academy prospects there. Vajner, Brooke, Bradbury and Harmes in particular.

Ben Atkins - Rams (ND1)
Matt Cornish - Ealing
Agustín Creevy - Sale
Ignacio Ruiz
Lovejoy Chawatama - Harlequins
Luke Green
Ciaran Parker
Danilo Fischetti - Zebre
Will Goodrick-Clarke
Ollie Hoskins - Saracens
Josh Caulfield - Bristol
Adam Coleman - Bordeaux
Chunya Munga - Northampton
Api Ratuniyarawa - Bayonne
Ed Scragg - Scarlets
Josh Basham
Ben Donnell - Gloucester
Jack Cooke
So'otala Fa'aso'o - Perpignan
Juan Martín González - Saracens
Izaia Moore-Aiono
Tom Pearson - Northampton
Matt Rogerson (c)- Leicester
Josh Smart
Caolan Englefield - Gloucester
Joe Powell - Leicester
Ben White - Toulon
Jacob Atkins - Rovigo
Paddy Jackson - Lyon
Rory Jennings - Newcastle
Tom Hitchcock - Ealing
Benhard Janse van Rensburg - Bristol
Will Joseph - Harlequins
Luca Morisi
Eddie Poolman
Matt Williams
Ben Loader
Lucio Cinti - Saracens
Henry Arundell - Racing 92
Kyle Rowe - Glasgow
Tom Collins
Michael Dykes - Gloucester

Calum Scott - Rams (ND1)
Joe Vajner
Afolabi Fasogbon - Gloucester
Tarek Haffar - Northampton
Mikey Summerfield - Bath
Chandler Cunningham-South - Harlequins
Jarlath Gleeson - Lyon
Lucas Brooke
Ollie Allan - Leicester
Monty Bradbury
Conor Cross
George Makepeace-Cubitt - Rams (ND1)
Jake Shortland
Jack Walsh
Alexander Harmes
Ralph McEachran - Sale
Rory Taylor - Gloucester
Finn Worley Brady
Toby Maddock
Charlie Moss

Just heard that Basham had turned up in Yokohama? Apparently had offers in the prem but around the 30k level.

[Margin__Walker]

Just heard that Basham had turned up in Yokohama? Apparently had offers in the prem but around the 30k level.

Yeah, pretty much everyone in that list was sorted in the end, albeit many took a step down in level.

Basham would have had a few offers. Probably took the opportunity for a bit of life experience.

He's a bright lad who's already taken the scenic route once in his career, dropping out of the LI academy to study full time for an Economics degree at Durham.

[Margin__Walker]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

[Paddington Bear]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

[Margin__Walker]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

[petej]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

Don't they still have lozowski and goode?

[sockwithaticket]

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

Don't they still have lozowski and goode?

They work as 10 cover, but if other teams you're up against have got the likes of Finn Russell and George Ford pulling their strings you want a somewhat equivalent player, not a nearly 36 year old fullback out of position.

[Paddington Bear]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

I was having a discussion the other day along the lines of ‘who was that dogshit ten Quins had between Evans and Smith’. Now I have my answer, thank you

[Margin__Walker]

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

I was having a discussion the other day along the lines of ‘who was that dogshit ten Quins had between Evans and Smith’. Now I have my answer, thank you

Never forget...

[Raggs]

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

I was having a discussion the other day along the lines of ‘who was that dogshit ten Quins had between Evans and Smith’. Now I have my answer, thank you

Never forget...

I was staying in the Ricoh hotel, having watched a Wasps game, bumped into Nick Eastwoods wife in the lobby (never met either before), think I was chatting to my wife about how the other results may have gone, and she asked if I'd heard about the ending. Told us about the insanity kick. Then Nick came in too, and had a natter. It was nice to see that the people near the top did have a genuine enjoyment for the sport.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Ben Botica's probably available for the right price

I was having a discussion the other day along the lines of ‘who was that dogshit ten Quins had between Evans and Smith’. Now I have my answer, thank you

Never forget...

And the Challenge cup final kick as well. :shudder:

[Margin__Walker]

Hard not to enjoy that ending tbf

[Margin__Walker]

And the Challenge cup final kick as well. :shudder:

Yep. The lad was an absolute disaster waiting to happen.

Huge asset to the league. Could do with a few more like him these days to drive fan engagement.

[Hal Jordan]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

He's dead to me now. Greatest betrayal since Benedict Arnold. Strettle redux. Just a poor man's Jonathan Joseph.

[JM2K6]

Ben Botica went on to become a fan favourite 10 in France, along with another sub-par Quins reject Benjamin Urdapilleta.

No-one ever remembers Dmitri Catrakilis at Quins, though

[geordie_6]

Does the overseas player rule not apply to u20s? Junior Kpoku turned out against Italy, despite playing in France. I know he went mid season, but seems to have been by choice.

[Hal Jordan]

England squad largely the same for Wales, but Marcus Smith is out.

[Ovals]

Does the overseas player rule not apply to u20s? Junior Kpoku turned out against Italy, despite playing in France. I know he went mid season, but seems to have been by choice.

Doesn't apply to the age group teams.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah as far as I know the overseas player stipulations are part of the PGA and that only affects the senior teams.

[inactionman]

Joe Marler is doing a reddit AMA at 5

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/com ... arler_ama/

[SaintK]

Marchant has signed for Sarries next season according to the Mail

Great news he’s back in England. I do wish we’d focus on sorting a ten and a front row

The Rugby Paper reporting that he has actually signed a 12 month extension to stay in France and is not heading to Sarries next season!
Saints have announced that Ludlam has signed for Toulon and is off at the end of the season. Sinkler will be joining him there but not officially announced as yet.

[SaintK]

No changes to the wider England training squad.
Beard back in, Martin back with squad but in rehab and no Marcus Smith

[geordie_6]

Does the overseas player rule not apply to u20s? Junior Kpoku turned out against Italy, despite playing in France. I know he went mid season, but seems to have been by choice.

Doesn't apply to the age group teams.

Cheers

[SaintK]

Lynagh off to Italy by the looks of it? First step to an Italian cap I'd have thought.

Louis Lynagh is edging towards the Harlequins exit door when his contract runs out at the end of the season at the Gallagher Premiership club and move to the United Rugby Championship.
The 23-year-old is set to follow in the footsteps of his father, Wallabies legend Michael, by joining Benetton, the Treviso franchise who have emerged as favourites to win the race for his signature.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/harlequ ... enetton/

[JM2K6]

It's a bit strange. He's had his defensive issues but there's no questioning his strike rate. I think maybe he lacks the real pace for international rugby, and you can't have that in a winger AND defensive issues, but he's only 23 and has shown some remarkable ability already.

I guess this is all the Covid contracts and tightening of the belt coming home to roost. Quins have a number of talented young back 3 players but if we've not offered him any kind of deal then that suggests something else going on.

Anyway, I'm sure he'll tear it up whereever he ends up and if he plays for Italy he'll be a real handful.

[sockwithaticket]

Might he also be looking around at the back three players ahead of him in the England squad and others who are or have recently been in the mix and thinking that if he has international ambitions, they're probably best furthered elsewhere?

[JM2K6]

Might he also be looking around at the back three players ahead of him in the England squad and others who are or have recently been in the mix and thinking that if he has international ambitions, they're probably best furthered elsewhere?

Well, that's the thing. It's not a list of established players with long careers ahead of them. We're currently playing a has-been, and another guy whose best form is actually as a 13. There's a group of players vying to be the next generation of England back 3 options but the door is wide open

[sockwithaticket]

Might he also be looking around at the back three players ahead of him in the England squad and others who are or have recently been in the mix and thinking that if he has international ambitions, they're probably best furthered elsewhere?

Well, that's the thing. It's not a list of established players with long careers ahead of them. We're currently playing a has-been, and another guy whose best form is actually as a 13. There's a group of players vying to be the next generation of England back 3 options but the door is wide open

Regardless of what we think, it doesn't seem like Daly is going anywhere any time soon and is apparently seen primarily as a back three player by the England management. With his 30 caps Steward is actually quite an experienced player at this point, especially relative to the rest of the squad and seems pretty nailed on.

While none of the rest are established and could be overtaken, there are more players to contend with for an England jersey than an Italy one.

Leaving Quins to go to an Italian club seems like a very deliberate move he didn't necessarily have to make. I would be surprised if other Prem clubs or even a few French ones wouldn't show some level of interest in signing him.

[JM2K6]

Daly is 31, he's not going to make the next world cup as he's only getting slower. Steward is definitely first choice but we all know he has some major weaknesses and if his ability in the air drops off for whatever reason then he looks very vulnerable.

It's not like Ireland or France!

[SaintK]

Might he also be looking around at the back three players ahead of him in the England squad and others who are or have recently been in the mix and thinking that if he has international ambitions, they're probably best furthered elsewhere?

Well, that's the thing. It's not a list of established players with long careers ahead of them. We're currently playing a has-been, and another guy whose best form is actually as a 13. There's a group of players vying to be the next generation of England back 3 options but the door is wide open

Regardless of what we think, it doesn't seem like Daly is going anywhere any time soon and is apparently seen primarily as a back three player by the England management. With his 30 caps Steward is actually quite an experienced player at this point, especially relative to the rest of the squad and seems pretty nailed on.

While none of the rest are established and could be overtaken, there are more players to contend with for an England jersey than an Italy one.

Leaving Quins to go to an Italian club seems like a very deliberate move he didn't necessarily have to make. I would be surprised if other Prem clubs or even a few French ones wouldn't show some level of interest in signing him.

Lynagh had to make the call

Louis Lynagh is this weekend set to complete his move to Benetton after agreeing to sign on at the United Rugby Championship high-flyers for the next couple of seasons.

RugbyPass exclusively revealed on Wednesday morning that Lynagh, the son of Wallabies legend Michael, was heading out of the Harlequins exit door at the end of the season to move to his hometown club.

We understand that former England under-20 winger Lynagh was reluctantly backed into a corner by Quins, who refused to offer him a new deal before a deadline imposed by the Italians to agree to the move expired earlier this week.

[Ovals]

Well, that's the thing. It's not a list of established players with long careers ahead of them. We're currently playing a has-been, and another guy whose best form is actually as a 13. There's a group of players vying to be the next generation of England back 3 options but the door is wide open

Regardless of what we think, it doesn't seem like Daly is going anywhere any time soon and is apparently seen primarily as a back three player by the England management. With his 30 caps Steward is actually quite an experienced player at this point, especially relative to the rest of the squad and seems pretty nailed on.

While none of the rest are established and could be overtaken, there are more players to contend with for an England jersey than an Italy one.

Leaving Quins to go to an Italian club seems like a very deliberate move he didn't necessarily have to make. I would be surprised if other Prem clubs or even a few French ones wouldn't show some level of interest in signing him.

Lynagh had to make the call

Louis Lynagh is this weekend set to complete his move to Benetton after agreeing to sign on at the United Rugby Championship high-flyers for the next couple of seasons.

RugbyPass exclusively revealed on Wednesday morning that Lynagh, the son of Wallabies legend Michael, was heading out of the Harlequins exit door at the end of the season to move to his hometown club.

We understand that former England under-20 winger Lynagh was reluctantly backed into a corner by Quins, who refused to offer him a new deal before a deadline imposed by the Italians to agree to the move expired earlier this week.

I guess that Quins feel they need to invest the salary in other areas - they are fairly well resourced at wing/fb.

[JM2K6]

The rumour on the Quins board is that this stems from Lynagh not putting the work in during his injury layoff, coming back way out of shape, then expecting to be automatic first choice. Things deteriorated from there.

Pinch of salt and all that but it must have been a pretty serious breakdown between player and club for him to not get offered a contract. Feels like a mistake.

[Raggs]

The rumour on the Quins board is that this stems from Lynagh not putting the work in during his injury layoff, coming back way out of shape, then expecting to be automatic first choice. Things deteriorated from there.

Pinch of salt and all that but it must have been a pretty serious breakdown between player and club for him to not get offered a contract. Feels like a mistake.

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

[Slick]

The rumour on the Quins board is that this stems from Lynagh not putting the work in during his injury layoff, coming back way out of shape, then expecting to be automatic first choice. Things deteriorated from there.

Pinch of salt and all that but it must have been a pretty serious breakdown between player and club for him to not get offered a contract. Feels like a mistake.

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

[Raggs]

The rumour on the Quins board is that this stems from Lynagh not putting the work in during his injury layoff, coming back way out of shape, then expecting to be automatic first choice. Things deteriorated from there.

Pinch of salt and all that but it must have been a pretty serious breakdown between player and club for him to not get offered a contract. Feels like a mistake.

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

Yes, what difference does that make to quins not offering him a contract?

[Slick]

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

Yes, what difference does that make to quins not offering him a contract?

Easy tiger. None, just a question given he’s signed for an Italian team

[JM2K6]

Yes, that is why there are multiple posts talking about him going for an Italy cap instead of England...

[Paddington Bear]

Rewatched the game. It’s hardly a classic but as ever I think the ‘unwatchable’ stuff is massively overdone because it’s England.

I thought we did pretty well. Going down to 13 was always going to be a punch in the face and throw a lot of plans out the window. Wales England is always a funny match, and with their tails up any Welsh side becomes very difficult to compete with. The way we managed it deserves some praise.

We’ve been 9 points down two weeks running now, the positive is how well we’re coming back into games which even during the good Eddie years was something we were shit at. George & Ford seem to have pretty level heads as leaders.

Steward was excellent. His flaws are well known but I think he’s indispensable for a side like ours. When we get him a sprint coach can we get him a fucking set of studs as well.

The defensive system looks pretty good. Wales only really cut it open twice - on the try the gap came from Stewart being the man on the inside of the blitz. Last week Italy exploited Marler in the same role. This suggests in general it works pretty well. Let’s see how it goes against Scotland - you’d think Finn could cause it more issues but he struggled a lot against SA’s.

Earl is the closest thing we have to a world class player. Phenomenal again, him and Maro really stepped up when we went down to 13. For me we won the game with that try, it would have been easy to fall apart.

We’re trying something in attack but it looks like we lack confidence. Doesn’t help that Dingwall probably isn’t quite good enough and is holding a shirt for Lawrence. Mitchell/Ford is a 9/10 combo that seems to work. Ford is the perfect ‘system’ 10 for Borthwick and was good again.

I’d like to see CCS start, maybe Underhill dropping out. We need a bit more go forward. Theo Dan can provide some as well from the bench and needs a few more minutes. Dingwall heads to the bench. I like Daly starting and will not be elaborating on this further.

Overall, I’d say we did enough. We were clearly the better side, even accounting for going down to 13 and Wales playing a game we hadn’t prepared for. The side seems much more cohesive and put together, and our composure is decent. I think we have enough to win at Murrayfield, and France have offered nothing in their first two games to fear.

Oh - the ref was just awful to both sides. The penalty try remains bollocks for me, it came down from it’s own momentum with England having the ball sewn up. The conversion fiasco has been covered. WR have an obligation to provide refs who can rise to the occasion, how can NZ produce so many great players and not a single passable ref? A ref struggling with the intensity of France Ireland last year is understandable, yesterday we had two refs who couldn’t cope with two bog standard internationals.

[SaintK]

Rewatched the game. It’s hardly a classic but as ever I think the ‘unwatchable’ stuff is massively overdone because it’s England.

I thought we did pretty well. Going down to 13 was always going to be a punch in the face and throw a lot of plans out the window. Wales England is always a funny match, and with their tails up any Welsh side becomes very difficult to compete with. The way we managed it deserves some praise.

We’ve been 9 points down two weeks running now, the positive is how well we’re coming back into games which even during the good Eddie years was something we were shit at. George & Ford seem to have pretty level heads as leaders.

Steward was excellent. His flaws are well known but I think he’s indispensable for a side like ours. When we get him a sprint coach can we get him a fucking set of studs as well.

The defensive system looks pretty good. Wales only really cut it open twice - on the try the gap came from Stewart being the man on the inside of the blitz. Last week Italy exploited Marler in the same role. This suggests in general it works pretty well. Let’s see how it goes against Scotland - you’d think Finn could cause it more issues but he struggled a lot against SA’s.

Earl is the closest thing we have to a world class player. Phenomenal again, him and Maro really stepped up when we went down to 13. For me we won the game with that try, it would have been easy to fall apart.

We’re trying something in attack but it looks like we lack confidence. Doesn’t help that Dingwall probably isn’t quite good enough and is holding a shirt for Lawrence. Mitchell/Ford is a 9/10 combo that seems to work. Ford is the perfect ‘system’ 10 for Borthwick and was good again.

I’d like to see CCS start, maybe Underhill dropping out. We need a bit more go forward. Theo Dan can provide some as well from the bench and needs a few more minutes. Dingwall heads to the bench. I like Daly starting and will not be elaborating on this further.

Overall, I’d say we did enough. We were clearly the better side, even accounting for going down to 13 and Wales playing a game we hadn’t prepared for. The side seems much more cohesive and put together, and our composure is decent. I think we have enough to win at Murrayfield, and France have offered nothing in their first two games to fear.

Oh - the ref was just awful to both sides. The penalty try remains bollocks for me, it came down from it’s own momentum with England having the ball sewn up. The conversion fiasco has been covered. WR have an obligation to provide refs who can rise to the occasion, how can NZ produce so many great players and not a single passable ref? A ref struggling with the intensity of France Ireland last year is understandable, yesterday we had two refs who couldn’t cope with two bog standard internationals.

Thanks for that. Good summary. Think there are some definite positives and definite work ons. Very much work in progress and not the sum of its parts yet.

[Raggs]

It definitely wasn't as bad a watch as many tried to claim.