The Official English Rugby Thread

[inactionman]

Geech is taking a job as consultant director of rugby at Doncaster.

He's had a marvellous coaching career, but one of his earlier similar director consultancy gigs at Bath didn't end so marvellously.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68437358

I had no idea Joe Ford was head coach there.

[SaintK]

Geech is taking a job as consultant director of rugby at Doncaster.

He's had a marvellous coaching career, but one of his earlier similar director consultancy gigs at Bath didn't end so marvellously.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68437358

I had no idea Joe Ford was head coach there.

He must be pushing 80, hope he doesn't end up the Roy Hodgson of rugby.
Excellent coach and summariser in his heyday but hasn't had a hands on experience for years.
Joe Ford took over from Steve Boden who unexpectedly resigned last week after playing over 200 games for Doncaster and coaching them for the past two seasons

[SaintK]

My club's away match off due to waterlogged pitch and no local club matches in the area due to same
No rugby on TV
Weather too shitty to go for a walk to the pub
Wife's pissed of that I'm here spoiling her usual quiet Saturday afternoon on her own
Oh well!!

[Monk]

Can’t pretend a Wigglesworth run attack sparks any joy, but how on earth can anyone create an attack that causes any issues at all if you’re going to make 20-25 handling errors in a game? Assuming ball in play time of just under 40 minutes, we drop the ball nearly every two minutes! Assume 50/50 possession and we drop the ball every 60 seconds, maybe less. Hopeless

Some days are like that. But it's much harder to get a team to click in attack when you've spent a year coaching them the opposite (and have practically no relevant coaching expertise anyway) but still expect them to attack at full pace.

A bunch of the errors were inexplicable and I don't expect to see that many again. I don't remember us making that many handling errors in the first two games of shambling incoherent bullshit, so I'm not keen on putting the blame just on them

Sometimes it’s good for the players to have a a couple of sessions without any coaches present.

[Deveron Boy]

The walrus’s solution for the Ireland game; being back Manu and Billy

[dpedin]

The walrus’s solution for the Ireland game; being back Manu and Billy

That'll fix things!!!!

[inactionman]

The walrus’s solution for the Ireland game; being back Manu and Billy

He seems to be stuck in some 2015 time-warp. Or he's drunk. Maybe he's been drunk since 2015.

[Sinkers]

Can’t pretend a Wigglesworth run attack sparks any joy, but how on earth can anyone create an attack that causes any issues at all if you’re going to make 20-25 handling errors in a game? Assuming ball in play time of just under 40 minutes, we drop the ball nearly every two minutes! Assume 50/50 possession and we drop the ball every 60 seconds, maybe less. Hopeless

Some days are like that. But it's much harder to get a team to click in attack when you've spent a year coaching them the opposite (and have practically no relevant coaching expertise anyway) but still expect them to attack at full pace.

A bunch of the errors were inexplicable and I don't expect to see that many again. I don't remember us making that many handling errors in the first two games of shambling incoherent bullshit, so I'm not keen on putting the blame just on them

Sometimes it’s good for the players to have a a couple of sessions without any coaches present.

A couple of sessions or seasons?

[sockwithaticket]

Unfortunately, I wouldn't bet against Manu actually being drafted back in. He is in the squad after all and coaches love talking him up despite having done nothing of note since 2019.

[Monk]

Some days are like that. But it's much harder to get a team to click in attack when you've spent a year coaching them the opposite (and have practically no relevant coaching expertise anyway) but still expect them to attack at full pace.

A bunch of the errors were inexplicable and I don't expect to see that many again. I don't remember us making that many handling errors in the first two games of shambling incoherent bullshit, so I'm not keen on putting the blame just on them

Sometimes it’s good for the players to have a a couple of sessions without any coaches present.

A couple of sessions or seasons?

[SaintK]

England’s misfiring attack is not being prioritised in training with Telegraph Sport learning that one prominent back touched the ball just once in a particular session.

The revelation comes as the country’s most-capped male player Ben Youngs has questioned how many attacking reps England’s players are undertaking in training. In their 30-21 defeat by Scotland, England committed 25 handling errors and 22 turnovers. With fixtures to come at home to Ireland and away to France, England have scored just six tries in this Six Nations.

Telegraph Sport understands that there is growing frustration within parts of the camp that far more time is devoted to building the hyper-aggressive blitz defence under Felix Jones than honing the attack under Richard Wigglesworth. That lack of focus stands in stark contrast to how the most innovative attacks in the Premiership operate.

Under Sam Vesty at Northampton, every player would be expected to have 150 ‘touches’ of a variety of different balls per session. Similarly at Bath, for example, backs would be expected to pass the ball at least 100 times each and forwards 50 times. Several sources confirmed that one English back, who has featured in the tournament, only got one touch during a session.

Maybe behind a paywall?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-unio ... thwick/

[Simian]

Oh wow. That’s wild (if it’s true)

[inactionman]

England’s misfiring attack is not being prioritised in training with Telegraph Sport learning that one prominent back touched the ball just once in a particular session.

The revelation comes as the country’s most-capped male player Ben Youngs has questioned how many attacking reps England’s players are undertaking in training. In their 30-21 defeat by Scotland, England committed 25 handling errors and 22 turnovers. With fixtures to come at home to Ireland and away to France, England have scored just six tries in this Six Nations.

Telegraph Sport understands that there is growing frustration within parts of the camp that far more time is devoted to building the hyper-aggressive blitz defence under Felix Jones than honing the attack under Richard Wigglesworth. That lack of focus stands in stark contrast to how the most innovative attacks in the Premiership operate.

Under Sam Vesty at Northampton, every player would be expected to have 150 ‘touches’ of a variety of different balls per session. Similarly at Bath, for example, backs would be expected to pass the ball at least 100 times each and forwards 50 times. Several sources confirmed that one English back, who has featured in the tournament, only got one touch during a session.

Maybe behind a paywall?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-unio ... thwick/

Hmm.

I'm not that concerned with a back touching the ball once if the session was focused upon defensive positioning, that seems a bit alarmist. They're essentially trying to fast-track a new defensive approach so not surprised there's sessions that focus on this exclusively.

I'd be very concerned if all they're doing is looking at defensive positioning. We definitely got sprung too easily on a few occasions, but even these were mostly off turnovers after we kept fecking it up in attack. I can't believe we'll be as clumsy and inaccurate in basics again, which was the principal cause of our problems over a fair few recent games, but despite that I'd like to think they're looking at attacking structure and pattern.

[Sandstorm]

I can't believe we'll be as clumsy and inaccurate in basics again, which was the principal cause of our problems over a fair few recent games......

Recent you say?

[inactionman]

I can't believe we'll be as clumsy and inaccurate in basics again, which was the principal cause of our problems over a fair few recent games......

Recent you say?

Prexactly

Sadly not all handling errors fall at young Ben Youngs' feet/hands.

[SaintK]

Brantingham confirmed to Sarries in the summer. Excellent potential.

Saracens have signed prop Phil Brantingham from Newcastle Falcons.
The 22-year-old loosehead, who has represented England at Under-20s level, will make the move in the summer.
Brantingham made his debut in a 32-22 defeat by Gloucester in January 2022 and has 25 appearances to his name.
"We have tracked Phil for the last couple of years and we are very much looking forward to welcoming him," Saracens director of rugby Mark McCall told the club website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68468730

[sockwithaticket]

Saints looking to change their logo apparently.

If you look across the globe, the most popular and successful sports teams and organisations have clear visual identities, which are both immediately recognisable and highly memorable.

Can't say that I see Premiership club logos as part of the problem with popularity or success tbh.

In fact it seems the opposite. Going from a heraldic design to something more 'modern', hasn't exactly lifted Gloucester out of the doldrums and Bristol are down there with them.

[Paddington Bear]

Easy thing to stick on a cv for the people involved. I remember our SU president rebranding the bar and cafe on campus simply so he could show something interesting on grad scheme interviews. He spent IIRC £50k and it got changed back the year after. Stuck with me ever since.

As for ‘brand awareness’, prem rugby is a niche product. No one isn’t following it because of the logo

[Tichtheid]

Despite having no connection to them whatsoever I got pissed off with Brighton Football Club changing their name to Brighton Blues. They predated codification and the RFU, having formed in 1868. However having looked them up now they have gone for Brighton Football Club (RFU)

[SaintK]

Hadn't realised Collier was off to France at the end of the season

Titi Lamositele is heading to Harlequins to replace Will Collier

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/titi- ... -collier/

[inactionman]

Hadn't realised Collier was off to France at the end of the season

Titi Lamositele is heading to Harlequins to replace Will Collier

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/titi- ... -collier/

Views on Collier? Not quite international standard, or unfairly ignored? He always seemed solid to me, and MArler specifically mentioned him as someone who should have got more caps. Although that could just be Marler playing silly buggers.

(It might just be no-one wanted two quins props in the team)

[Hal Jordan]

He's 32, whatever England chances he had are gone and he's had a lot of injuries, so Quins get him off the books and he gets a nice pension boost.

Edit: He should have had a few more caps, at least.

[sockwithaticket]

He's probably been unfairly overlooked at moments in his career because we were fixated on dynamic props rather than nuts and bolts set piece types, but he's also been injured a lot and thus unavailable when there were opportunities.

[SaintK]

Sounds like Fin Smith has picked up a calf injury in training and out of Ireland match!
As you were then I suspect with Ford starting and Smith M on the bench

[JM2K6]

Hadn't realised Collier was off to France at the end of the season

Titi Lamositele is heading to Harlequins to replace Will Collier

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/titi- ... -collier/

Views on Collier? Not quite international standard, or unfairly ignored? He always seemed solid to me, and MArler specifically mentioned him as someone who should have got more caps. Although that could just be Marler playing silly buggers.

(It might just be no-one wanted two quins props in the team)

Along with Cole, consistently huge at the set piece. Unlike Cole, didn't have the breakdown nous or the durability. A shame, he is a serious scrummager.

[JM2K6]

Sounds like Fin Smith has picked up a calf injury in training and out of Ireland match!
As you were then I suspect with Ford starting and Smith M on the bench

Presumably from kicking rather than running...

[Hal Jordan]

Got to stick the the one Smith rule, so tag team injuries is a simple way of keeping everything in order.

[inactionman]

I'm actually quite liking what Borthwick has to say - it veers into management-speak but the sentiment is exactly right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68534047

"Post the Scotland game, there was evidence that the weight of the shirt was on the players," Borthwick added.

"I believe we need to create a supportive environment. Everybody involved with English rugby is under incredible scrutiny. That's just the way it is.

"There's incredible expectation and I'd rather be involved in a team where there is expectation upon it than not.

"But with that I want to make sure that young players are coming into a supportive environment. I want to see their point of difference on the grass.

"Mistakes are going to happen and we are understanding of that, but we don't want to repeat mistakes. We have got to learn fast.

"The team went through a difficult experience at Murrayfield, reviewed it properly and then addressed it on the training field.

"The players weren't perfect against Ireland, they made mistakes, but at Murrayfield I thought we made a mistake and then went into ourselves, played a little bit small.

"Against Ireland they made errors and got into the next battle. If there is anything I can encourage the players to do, it is go into the next battle."

We've had this issue in both England cricket and football - players felt insecure and uncomfortable, and worried more about not making errors and ended up playing for themselves.

People like Andrew Strauss (and many before and after him) and now Gareth Southgate have addressed this, and made the national team a pleasant place to play and where players are backed - although it did need McCullum and Stokes to reset this a bit.

After Eddie, I'd think this needs to be done for rugby. Eddie reducing players like Malins to tears is simply not what should happen, at any level.

[Paddington Bear]

Agree with that largely. As much as they crow when we win, truth is that however much they deny it our media love to see us lose. It’s quite unique.

I’m not exactly Jonny Bairstow’s strongest soldier, but him calling out the media for this was a major factor in our cricket world cup win IMO.

This is exacerbated in rugby, as most of our biggest games each year come in largely unreciprocated rivalries, and you go from playing in front of maybe 10,000 and a small tv audience, lucky to get half a page in the paper, to being part of a genuine national event. Psychologically it has to be challenging, one week realistically no one cares, the next there’s nowhere to hide.

The hope has to be the Scotland game becomes a turning point for the side. I don’t think we have to win Saturday to show we’ve properly turned the corner, but we certainly need another big performance. We still made a number of elementary errors Saturday and I’m convinced this side has a higher ceiling. When you look at our run of games coming up, we’ll need to see it.

[Ovals]

Agree with that largely. As much as they crow when we win, truth is that however much they deny it our media love to see us lose. It’s quite unique.

I’m not exactly Jonny Bairstow’s strongest soldier, but him calling out the media for this was a major factor in our cricket world cup win IMO.

This is exacerbated in rugby, as most of our biggest games each year come in largely unreciprocated rivalries, and you go from playing in front of maybe 10,000 and a small tv audience, lucky to get half a page in the paper, to being part of a genuine national event. Psychologically it has to be challenging, one week realistically no one cares, the next there’s nowhere to hide.

The hope has to be the Scotland game becomes a turning point for the side. I don’t think we have to win Saturday to show we’ve properly turned the corner, but we certainly need another big performance. We still made a number of elementary errors Saturday and I’m convinced this side has a higher ceiling. When you look at our run of games coming up, we’ll need to see it.

Agree with all of that. Hopefully we'll see the same starting XV to give those combinations a chance to build on Saturday's performance. There'll be a temptation to start Marcus but I'd hold off on that for this game - bring him on earlier if it isn't working as well.

[Paddington Bear]

Yeah I thought Ford played very well ball in hand. Kicking another story of course but that happens

[Oxbow]

Vaguely rugby-related, apparently Harry Mallinder is getting a lot of love from NFL teams because of his 'massive leg'. He's had a shitty time with injuries over the years so good luck to the fella.

https://nfldraftdiamonds.com/2024/03/ipp-player/

[inactionman]

Vaguely rugby-related, apparently Harry Mallinder is getting a lot of love from NFL teams because of his 'massive leg'. He's had a shitty time with injuries over the years so good luck to the fella.

https://nfldraftdiamonds.com/2024/03/ipp-player/

Can we send Eliot Daly out there?

I'm being facetious. Good luck to Mallinder, always seemed a very skilful player but fragile.

[inactionman]

Yeah I thought Ford played very well ball in hand. Kicking another story of course but that happens

The kicking off the tee was really quite poor. I was expecting that to come back and bite us.

What's Furbank like off the tee, I wonder? We should go back to 15s kicking for goal.

[Lobby]

Yeah I thought Ford played very well ball in hand. Kicking another story of course but that happens

The kicking off the tee was really quite poor. I was expecting that to come back and bite us.

What's Furbank like off the tee, I wonder? We should go back to 15s kicking for goal.

Slade is the obvious alternative as he's kicked several pressure kicks for Exeter this season.

[inactionman]

Yeah I thought Ford played very well ball in hand. Kicking another story of course but that happens

The kicking off the tee was really quite poor. I was expecting that to come back and bite us.

What's Furbank like off the tee, I wonder? We should go back to 15s kicking for goal.

Slade is the obvious alternative as he's kicked several pressure kicks for Exeter this season.

Yep, he's already taking on a few touchfinders so he could step up.

Not sure if it would be a benefit to Ford, to take away pressure, or a slap in the face. Didn't we once end up with Tindall kicking when Charlie Hodgson had a few wobbles? The ignomony.

[Ovals]

The kicking off the tee was really quite poor. I was expecting that to come back and bite us.

What's Furbank like off the tee, I wonder? We should go back to 15s kicking for goal.

Slade is the obvious alternative as he's kicked several pressure kicks for Exeter this season.

Yep, he's already taking on a few touchfinders so he could step up.

Not sure if it would be a benefit to Ford, to take away pressure, or a slap in the face. Didn't we once end up with Tindall kicking when Charlie Hodgson had a few wobbles? The ignomony.

Maybe let Slade take penalties from the right of the posts, Ford from the left.

[inactionman]

Slade is the obvious alternative as he's kicked several pressure kicks for Exeter this season.

Yep, he's already taking on a few touchfinders so he could step up.

Not sure if it would be a benefit to Ford, to take away pressure, or a slap in the face. Didn't we once end up with Tindall kicking when Charlie Hodgson had a few wobbles? The ignomony.

Maybe let Slade take penalties from the right of the posts, Ford from the left.

Would make sense for those wide out right, definitely.

From memory, Ford missed a pretty regulation chance just to the left of the posts. I'm making a bit of hay here, he's generally OK from the tee but just had an off-day, but I've thought you'd want a backup in case of wobbles. Even Farrell had a few bad days (I'm referring to kicking here, lest our celtic cousins pipe up).

[Mahoney]

The kicking off the tee was really quite poor. I was expecting that to come back and bite us.

What's Furbank like off the tee, I wonder? We should go back to 15s kicking for goal.

Slade is the obvious alternative as he's kicked several pressure kicks for Exeter this season.

Yep, he's already taking on a few touchfinders so he could step up.

Not sure if it would be a benefit to Ford, to take away pressure, or a slap in the face. Didn't we once end up with Tindall kicking when Charlie Hodgson had a few wobbles? The ignomony.

If I were a rugby coach my first rule would be that neither 9 or 10 kick goals ever. Being in a position where you pick your primary play makers based on a largely orthogonal skill, or else miss out on game deciding points, is fucking stupid.

I don't want my 9 or 10 wasting their training time (& fucking up their groins, hello Jonny) endlessly kicking at goal. 11-15 spend enough time standing around getting cold, one of them can invest in becoming an expert goal kicker.

Can you imagine what an NFL coach would make of picking their Quarterback based on their ability to kick field goals?

[sockwithaticket]

Yep, he's already taking on a few touchfinders so he could step up.

Not sure if it would be a benefit to Ford, to take away pressure, or a slap in the face. Didn't we once end up with Tindall kicking when Charlie Hodgson had a few wobbles? The ignomony.

Maybe let Slade take penalties from the right of the posts, Ford from the left.

Would make sense for those wide out right, definitely.

From memory, Ford missed a pretty regulation chance just to the left of the posts. I'm making a bit of hay here, he's generally OK from the tee but just had an off-day, but I've thought you'd want a backup in case of wobbles. Even Farrell had a few bad days (I'm referring to kicking here, lest our celtic cousins pipe up).

Having the back up is one thing, the captain or coach making the call and deciding that the front line kicker needs to be swapped is another. As had been pointed out by you all, in Slade and Furbank there were two alternatives in the starting side and then there were Smith and Daly to call upon from the bench. Although I am of a mind that calling Daly a goal kicker is a bit much, the only kicks he takes in match situations are those long distance ones and success is very 50/50 (if that!).