Kicking off in Israel

[dpedin]

Iranian embassy in Syria bombed. Most likely by Israel, who are clearly sick of Iran funding the gunmen around their borders.

This is going to escalate unfortunately.

not the embassy but a building next it

Photos and videos from the scene showed smoke and dust rising from the remains of the collapsed multi-storey building. The Iranian embassy next door did not appear to have sustained any significant damage.

Later, the Revolutionary Guards put out a statement saying that seven of its officers were killed, including Brig-Gen Mohammad Reza Zahedi and Brig-Gen Mohammad Hadi Haji-Rahimi, whom it described as commanders and "senior military advisers".

The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which relies on a network of sources on the ground in Syria, reported that eight people were killed - a high-ranking leader of the Quds Force, two Iranian advisers and five members of the Revolutionary Guards.

Building next to Embassy was the Iranian Consulate according to BBC. This was completely destroyed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68713373

[I like neeps]

Clear as day to me. You don't think they have been deliberately slowing and preventing aid, or suppressing independent journalism, or just don't want to believe it. They just shut down Al Jazeera, and have been preventing free journalism or voices they don't strictly control for ages. Many journalists have been killed, and they are clear in their distaste and disregard for the UN. They are a US ally not because they hold the same values, but because they will do what the USA cannot do directly without a backlash, but they are now completely out of their control.

They could slow down aid by not letting them in and delivering it rather than allowing them to deliver it then blowing up their van with a missile.

They can't be seen to completely cut off aid though as that gets reported, but they can come up with excuses for slowing it, which they clearly have been doing, and for stuff that does making it very dangerous to distribute with deniability. These aren't the first killings related the alleviating the starvation they deliberately engineered.

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

[Hugo]

They could slow down aid by not letting them in and delivering it rather than allowing them to deliver it then blowing up their van with a missile.

They can't be seen to completely cut off aid though as that gets reported, but they can come up with excuses for slowing it, which they clearly have been doing, and for stuff that does making it very dangerous to distribute with deniability. These aren't the first killings related the alleviating the starvation they deliberately engineered.

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They have deliberately killed journalists, they have deliberately impeded the work of journalists and doctors and nurses. Why do you think it would be far fetched that they would kill aid workers?

I'm just trying to figure out how you would give them the benefit of the doubt in this case?

[I like neeps]

They can't be seen to completely cut off aid though as that gets reported, but they can come up with excuses for slowing it, which they clearly have been doing, and for stuff that does making it very dangerous to distribute with deniability. These aren't the first killings related the alleviating the starvation they deliberately engineered.

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They have deliberately killed journalists, they have deliberately impeded the work of journalists and doctors and nurses. Why do you think it would be far fetched that they would kill aid workers?

I'm just trying to figure out how you would give them the benefit of the doubt in this case?

They target and kill Palestinian journalists, they don't target the BBC journalists.

They get the benefit of the doubt because it would be mad to start killing British volunteers. Not that Israel see us as an ally apart from when it suits them, but it just wouldn't make sense.

[Hugo]

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They have deliberately killed journalists, they have deliberately impeded the work of journalists and doctors and nurses. Why do you think it would be far fetched that they would kill aid workers?

I'm just trying to figure out how you would give them the benefit of the doubt in this case?

They target and kill Palestinian journalists, they don't target the BBC journalists.

They get the benefit of the doubt because it would be mad to start killing British volunteers. Not that Israel see us as an ally apart from when it suits them, but it just wouldn't make sense.

Israel wouldn't knowingly kill British aid workers - how would they know they were British? - but they do know the British government aren't going to do anything to hold them accountable for killing British citizens other than a reprimand which amounts to nothing.

[Guy Smiley]

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They have deliberately killed journalists, they have deliberately impeded the work of journalists and doctors and nurses. Why do you think it would be far fetched that they would kill aid workers?

I'm just trying to figure out how you would give them the benefit of the doubt in this case?

They target and kill Palestinian journalists, they don't target the BBC journalists.

They get the benefit of the doubt because it would be mad to start killing British volunteers. Not that Israel see us as an ally apart from when it suits them, but it just wouldn't make sense.

There's a weird sort of logic fail here...

I agree with you that Israel has demonstrated a complete disregard for life in Gaza. I agree that the IDF possess the ability to target individuals.

I don't see why you would assume though, that they would necessarily spare Brits simply for being British... when they are, as you yourself say, killing indiscriminately.

There's nothing complex about what's going in here. The October 7th attack by Hamas simply unleashed the naked fury of Israel's hard right and now that it's off the leash we see the brutal reality. They are clearing Gaza under the guise of 'eliminating Hamas'. This is a land grab and the messy business of an accidental genocide is just an unfortunate side effect.

[Hugo]

They have deliberately killed journalists, they have deliberately impeded the work of journalists and doctors and nurses. Why do you think it would be far fetched that they would kill aid workers?

I'm just trying to figure out how you would give them the benefit of the doubt in this case?

They target and kill Palestinian journalists, they don't target the BBC journalists.

They get the benefit of the doubt because it would be mad to start killing British volunteers. Not that Israel see us as an ally apart from when it suits them, but it just wouldn't make sense.

There's a weird sort of logic fail here...

I agree with you that Israel has demonstrated a complete disregard for life in Gaza. I agree that the IDF possess the ability to target individuals.

I don't see why you would assume though, that they would necessarily spare Brits simply for being British... when they are, as you yourself say, killing indiscriminately.

There's nothing complex about what's going in here. The October 7th attack by Hamas simply unleashed the naked fury of Israel's hard right and now that it's off the leash we see the brutal reality. They are clearing Gaza under the guise of 'eliminating Hamas'. This is a land grab and the messy business of an accidental genocide is just an unfortunate side effect.

Agreed - whether it is Brit aid workers, Palestinian kids, journalists, doctors at the end of the day its all collateral damage.

[Glaston]

Why would they do it deliberately?

Because they'd prefer if no material aid reached Gaza since they want the inhabitants to piss off in toto, and asap. And because the chances of material consequences to them are very low, as long as the yanks support them in practice regardless of what yank spokesreptiles may say in public.

More likely it's a warzone and the IDF HQ didn't get the message down to the troops on the ground properly. Even the Israelis are wary of taking out aid-workers on purpose in my estimation.

Wary!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They attacked a US ship numerous times in international waters killing many Americans, pretty much swept under the carpet. President Johnson was on the side of the Israelis over his own citizens.

Israel deliberately shelled a UN camp in Lebanon, using air burst shells.
Israel deliberately attacked refugee camps in Lebanon.


They have longstanding history of not really giving a shit.

Dean Rusk 1967
" military recklessness reflecting wanton disregard for human life"

[dpedin]

They target and kill Palestinian journalists, they don't target the BBC journalists.

They get the benefit of the doubt because it would be mad to start killing British volunteers. Not that Israel see us as an ally apart from when it suits them, but it just wouldn't make sense.

There's a weird sort of logic fail here...

I agree with you that Israel has demonstrated a complete disregard for life in Gaza. I agree that the IDF possess the ability to target individuals.

I don't see why you would assume though, that they would necessarily spare Brits simply for being British... when they are, as you yourself say, killing indiscriminately.

There's nothing complex about what's going in here. The October 7th attack by Hamas simply unleashed the naked fury of Israel's hard right and now that it's off the leash we see the brutal reality. They are clearing Gaza under the guise of 'eliminating Hamas'. This is a land grab and the messy business of an accidental genocide is just an unfortunate side effect.

Agreed - whether it is Brit aid workers, Palestinian kids, journalists, doctors at the end of the day its all collateral damage.

It is this exactly! The hard right fanatics in the Israeli Government want to clear Gazza and take over what they see as their rightful land. They are driven by the same type of religious nonsense and bigotry that drives Hammas and will easily dismiss a few foreign aid workers as acceptable collateral damage in what they see are their righteous religious crusade. They are complete and utter demonic fuckwits who could push the whole region into a large scale war and these are the sort of guys who wouldn't think twice about using tactical nuclear weapons if they were threatened or thought it would give them what they wanted. We are in very very dangerous waters now, the US has lost control of the situation and their influence over the Israeli Government is draining away. Israel has decided it can do what it wants with impunity now and want to 'finish the job' and drive all Palestinians from Gazza. They think this is their one in a lifetime opportunity and won't hold back now. The situation could quickly escalate now, particularly if most of the Western world decide to pull the rug from under Netanyahu and his Government and also if Israel continues to launch attacks in other countries ie Lebanon, Syria, etc.

[Jockaline]

They could slow down aid by not letting them in and delivering it rather than allowing them to deliver it then blowing up their van with a missile.

They can't be seen to completely cut off aid though as that gets reported, but they can come up with excuses for slowing it, which they clearly have been doing, and for stuff that does making it very dangerous to distribute with deniability. These aren't the first killings related the alleviating the starvation they deliberately engineered.

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They notified the IDF of their movements travelling in marked WFK vehicles, two were hit and when survivors moved to the third it was also hit. You're incredibly naïve.

[Ymx]

You guys are seriously suggesting the IDF deliberately attacked what it believed to be legitimate aid workers.

Fester, Jockaline, Hugo.

Did I miss anyone ?

[Ymx]

This is their response currently

[Ymx]

Bibi adds

Israel deeply regrets the tragic incident which claimed the lives of seven humanitarian aid workers.

Our hearts go out to their families and to their home countries.

The IDF is conducting a swift and transparent investigation and we will make our findings public.

Israel is fully committed to enabling humanitarian aid to reach the civilian population in Gaza and we will do everything in our power to ensure that such tragedies do not occur in the future.

[I like neeps]

They have deliberately killed journalists, they have deliberately impeded the work of journalists and doctors and nurses. Why do you think it would be far fetched that they would kill aid workers?

I'm just trying to figure out how you would give them the benefit of the doubt in this case?

They target and kill Palestinian journalists, they don't target the BBC journalists.

They get the benefit of the doubt because it would be mad to start killing British volunteers. Not that Israel see us as an ally apart from when it suits them, but it just wouldn't make sense.

There's a weird sort of logic fail here...

I agree with you that Israel has demonstrated a complete disregard for life in Gaza. I agree that the IDF possess the ability to target individuals.

I don't see why you would assume though, that they would necessarily spare Brits simply for being British... when they are, as you yourself say, killing indiscriminately.

There's nothing complex about what's going in here. The October 7th attack by Hamas simply unleashed the naked fury of Israel's hard right and now that it's off the leash we see the brutal reality. They are clearing Gaza under the guise of 'eliminating Hamas'. This is a land grab and the messy business of an accidental genocide is just an unfortunate side effect.

Because of the diplomatic snafu caused by killing Brits.

Clearly, the US will allow the relentless slaughter of Palestinians and ignore what is a blatant genocide. But, when Israel start killing the whites from Europe, the US might not be so forgiving. Not that the UK or Europe are significant diplomatic players, but this is going to harden their attitudes too.

[Guy Smiley]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... israel-war

Nine doctors gave the Guardian accounts of working in Gaza hospitals this year, all but one of them foreign volunteers. Their common assessment was that most of the dead and wounded children they treated were hit by shrapnel or burned during Israel’s extensive bombardment of residential neighbourhoods, in some cases wiping out entire families. Others were killed or injured by collapsing buildings with still more missing under the rubble.


But doctors also reported treating a steady stream of children, elderly people and others who were clearly not combatants with single bullet wounds to the head or chest.

Some of the physicians said that the types and locations of the wounds, and accounts of Palestinians who brought children to the hospital, led them to believe the victims were directly targeted by Israeli troops.

Other doctors said they did not know the circumstances of the shootings but that they were deeply troubled by the number of children who were severely wounded or killed by single gunshots, sometimes by high-calibre bullets causing extensive damage to young bodies.

In mid-February, a group of UN experts accused the Israeli military of targeting Palestinian civilians who are evidently not combatants, including children, as they sought shelter.

“We are shocked by reports of the deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of Palestinian women and children in places where they sought refuge, or while fleeing. Some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by the Israeli army or affiliated forces,” the group said.

[C69]

You guys are seriously suggesting the IDF deliberately attacked what it believed to be legitimate aid workers.

Fester, Jockaline, Hugo.

Did I miss anyone ?

Imho if not deliberately targeted, it doesn't matter if these Palestine aid workers are killed.
Time and time again...this is war

[Jockaline]

This is their response currently

Means nothing they are hardly going to come out and say we did it. This maybe a conspiracy theory, but I imagine some in the BIBI government will be cheering a good job well done none the less.

[Hugo]

It is this exactly! The hard right fanatics in the Israeli Government want to clear Gazza and take over what they see as their rightful land.

I 100% agree and to that end they have:

- slaughtered innocent Gazans in the tens of thousands,
- made Gaza uninhabitable due to the number of dwellings they have destroyed,
- deliberately targeted journalists to prevent the truth coming out about their atrocities,
- done everything in their power to undermine the legitimacy of the UN and its humanitarian work in Gaza and
- deliberately hindered aid coming into Gaza.


I am just a little frustrated that people are still refusing to see that none of this is happening by accident. Self evidently Israel has a wanton disregard for human life and for international law - how much more proof do we need to see that is indisputably true?

[Hugo]

As for the investigation into the killing of the seven aid workers I will be highly, HIGHLY surprised if anyone is held meaningfully accountable for those deaths. At best I can see them saying they mistook the aid vehicles for someone else and it was all a cock up.

Those poor bastards who only went to Gaza to help others in need will more than likely get the same type of "justice" that the Palestinians get from their occupiers.

[C69]

The UK press' zeitgeist has changed

[Gumboot]

It is this exactly! The hard right fanatics in the Israeli Government want to clear Gazza and take over what they see as their rightful land.

I 100% agree and to that end they have:

- slaughtered innocent Gazans in the tens of thousands,
- made Gaza uninhabitable due to the number of dwellings they have destroyed,
- deliberately targeted journalists to prevent the truth coming out about their atrocities,
- done everything in their power to undermine the legitimacy of the UN and its humanitarian work in Gaza and
- deliberately hindered aid coming into Gaza.


I am just a little frustrated that people are still refusing to see that none of this is happening by accident. Self evidently Israel has a wanton disregard for human life and for international law - how much more proof do we need to see that is indisputably true?

Yep, you have to be hopelessly credulous to still think the IDF has any moral superiority over Hamas at this point.

Amoral butchers, the lot of 'em.

[Calculon]

Iranian embassy in Syria bombed. Most likely by Israel, who are clearly sick of Iran funding the gunmen around their borders.

This is going to escalate unfortunately.

not the embassy but a building next it

Photos and videos from the scene showed smoke and dust rising from the remains of the collapsed multi-storey building. The Iranian embassy next door did not appear to have sustained any significant damage.

Later, the Revolutionary Guards put out a statement saying that seven of its officers were killed, including Brig-Gen Mohammad Reza Zahedi and Brig-Gen Mohammad Hadi Haji-Rahimi, whom it described as commanders and "senior military advisers".

The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which relies on a network of sources on the ground in Syria, reported that eight people were killed - a high-ranking leader of the Quds Force, two Iranian advisers and five members of the Revolutionary Guards.

Building next to Embassy was the Iranian Consulate according to BBC. This was completely destroyed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68713373

No, the building was part of the consulate according to the Iranians, as reported by the BBC. there is an important difference there. I'm sure MBS raised his glass to the IDF last night

[Calculon]

You guys are seriously suggesting the IDF deliberately attacked what it believed to be legitimate aid workers.

Fester, Jockaline, Hugo.

Did I miss anyone ?

It's a war zone where the enemy wears civilian clothing and uses civilian vehicles. The IDF also has a hight tolerance (probably) for killing Gaza civilians. Not difficult to believe it was a fuck up

[Hugo]

It is this exactly! The hard right fanatics in the Israeli Government want to clear Gazza and take over what they see as their rightful land.

I 100% agree and to that end they have:

- slaughtered innocent Gazans in the tens of thousands,
- made Gaza uninhabitable due to the number of dwellings they have destroyed,
- deliberately targeted journalists to prevent the truth coming out about their atrocities,
- done everything in their power to undermine the legitimacy of the UN and its humanitarian work in Gaza and
- deliberately hindered aid coming into Gaza.


I am just a little frustrated that people are still refusing to see that none of this is happening by accident. Self evidently Israel has a wanton disregard for human life and for international law - how much more proof do we need to see that is indisputably true?

Yep, you have to be hopelessly credulous to still think the IDF has any moral superiority over Hamas at this point.

Amoral butchers, the lot of 'em.

Indeed. If you or I were in Gaza for whatever reason the IDF would not hesitate to shoot first, investigate later.

They know full well that western politicians are weak and spineless and will not hold Israel accountable.
This attitude of impunity comes from the very top and permeates all the way down.

[Ymx]

You guys are seriously suggesting the IDF deliberately attacked what it believed to be legitimate aid workers.

Fester, Jockaline, Hugo.

Did I miss anyone ?

It's a war zone where the enemy wears civilian clothing and uses civilian vehicles. The IDF also has a hight tolerance (probably) for killing Gaza civilians. Not difficult to believe it was a fuck up

Yes, exactly.

But the clowns above think they would deliberately kill legitimate aid workers (as opposed to Hamas UNRWA ones).

[Guy Smiley]

You guys are seriously suggesting the IDF deliberately attacked what it believed to be legitimate aid workers.

Fester, Jockaline, Hugo.

Did I miss anyone ?

It's a war zone where the enemy wears civilian clothing and uses civilian vehicles. The IDF also has a hight tolerance (probably) for killing Gaza civilians. Not difficult to believe it was a fuck up

Yes, exactly.

But the clowns above think they would deliberately kill legitimate aid workers (as opposed to Hamas UNRWA ones).

https://wck.org/news/gaza-team-update

The WCK team was traveling in a deconflicted zone in two armored cars branded with the WCK logo and a soft skin vehicle.

Despite coordinating movements with the IDF, the convoy was hit as it was leaving the Deir al-Balah warehouse, where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid brought to Gaza on the maritime route.

The seven killed are from Australia, Poland, United Kingdom, a dual citizen of the U.S. and Canada, and Palestine.

[Ymx]

That does not say they deliberately killed legitimate aid workers.

A much more credible story would be an actual mistake. Either mistaken identity of the vehicle, or bad intel. Or maliciously seeded intel.

It’s a messy war zone. Hamas are not exactly driving military vehicles, wearing military uniforms. It’s not like UNRWA are not entwined with the “resistance.”

[MungoMan]

That does not say they deliberately killed legitimate aid workers.

A much more credible story would be an actual mistake. Either mistaken identity of the vehicle, or bad intel. Or maliciously seeded intel.

It’s a messy war zone. Hamas are not exactly driving military vehicles, wearing military uniforms. It’s not like UNRWA are not entwined with the “resistance.”

Enjoying the koolaid?

[Tichtheid]

I can't seem to find evidence that UNRWA has militants among its workers, there is nothing coming up with Google searches. Likewise there is no hard evidence to support the claim that "confessions" of being members of Hamas by UNRWA personnel were obtained under torture and death threats were made against the families of those detained.

If there is a full investigation after this is finished we might get to the truth, in the meantime only a fool would believe any unverified story.

[Gumboot]

Israeli defence sources told Haaretz that the aid workers’ vehicles had been hit three times by missiles fired from a drone because of erroneous suspicions that a terrorist was travelling with the convoy.

Haaretz also reported that some of the passengers left their vehicle after it was hit by the first missile and climbed into another car, which was then hit by a second missile. The third car in the convoy, which approached to pick up the occupants of the second car, was hit by a third missile. The strike killed all of the WCK workers in the convoy.

Yeah, that definitely sounds like nothing more than an honest mistake by the IDF...

[Sandstorm]

That does not say they deliberately killed legitimate aid workers.

A much more credible story would be an actual mistake. Either mistaken identity of the vehicle, or bad intel. Or maliciously seeded intel.

It’s a messy war zone. Hamas are not exactly driving military vehicles, wearing military uniforms. It’s not like UNRWA are not entwined with the “resistance.”

Enjoying the koolaid?

I blame the daily ice bath.

[Uncle fester]

I can't seem to find evidence that UNRWA has militants among its workers, there is nothing coming up with Google searches. Likewise there is no hard evidence to support the claim that "confessions" of being members of Hamas by UNRWA personnel were obtained under torture and death threats were made against the families of those detained.

If there is a full investigation after this is finished we might get to the truth, in the meantime only a fool would believe any unverified story.

And while we're carrying out that investigation, Gaza can starve. Nothing we can do about that I'm afraid. These investigations take time but if we find even one person who isn't milky white, it will all be worth it.

[Slick]

They can't be seen to completely cut off aid though as that gets reported, but they can come up with excuses for slowing it, which they clearly have been doing, and for stuff that does making it very dangerous to distribute with deniability. These aren't the first killings related the alleviating the starvation they deliberately engineered.

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They notified the IDF of their movements travelling in marked WFK vehicles, two were hit and when survivors moved to the third it was also hit. You're incredibly naïve.

Jesus.

[dpedin]

Israel definitely didn't deliverably kill international aid workers. I agree with slick that's pure conspiracy.

The reality is they just have a clear disregard for all life in Gaza and so kill indiscriminately. And will continue to do so until the US decides to stop selling them weapons.

They notified the IDF of their movements travelling in marked WFK vehicles, two were hit and when survivors moved to the third it was also hit. You're incredibly naïve.

Jesus.

IDF have previously claimed that the technology they use in their drones etc is extremely sensitive, equipped with night vision and detailed ie they can read logos on peoples t-shirts etc before they kill them. The three cars hit were covered in World Central Kitchen logos plus they had agreed route with IDF and were in a non active combat zone. The IDF literally used the WCK logo on the top of the cars as their targets ... 3 times!

[I like neeps]

I can't seem to find evidence that UNRWA has militants among its workers, there is nothing coming up with Google searches. Likewise there is no hard evidence to support the claim that "confessions" of being members of Hamas by UNRWA personnel were obtained under torture and death threats were made against the families of those detained.

If there is a full investigation after this is finished we might get to the truth, in the meantime only a fool would believe any unverified story.

And while we're carrying out that investigation, Gaza can starve. Nothing we can do about that I'm afraid. These investigations take time but if we find even one person who isn't milky white, it will all be worth it.

EU, Canada, Australia stopped the investigation and resumed finding as they found out it was another lie by the Israeli govt.

(Not that ymx cares or would even Google that, he's just a troll).

[Slick]

They notified the IDF of their movements travelling in marked WFK vehicles, two were hit and when survivors moved to the third it was also hit. You're incredibly naïve.

Jesus.

IDF have previously claimed that the technology they use in their drones etc is extremely sensitive, equipped with night vision and detailed ie they can read logos on peoples t-shirts etc before they kill them. The three cars hit were covered in World Central Kitchen logos plus they had agreed route with IDF and were in a non active combat zone. The IDF literally used the WCK logo on the top of the cars as their targets ... 3 times!

Yeah, I get it. And things like that happen fairly frequently in war zones.

I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but to me, on the balance of probabilities, I don't think it was.

The point being, no one knows at this stage, so to call people incredibly naive for not agreeing is just daft. It's this absolute certainty about "your side" which is just irritating and stupid. As if we are experts in a highly complex situation from our sofas.

[dpedin]

Jesus.

IDF have previously claimed that the technology they use in their drones etc is extremely sensitive, equipped with night vision and detailed ie they can read logos on peoples t-shirts etc before they kill them. The three cars hit were covered in World Central Kitchen logos plus they had agreed route with IDF and were in a non active combat zone. The IDF literally used the WCK logo on the top of the cars as their targets ... 3 times!

Yeah, I get it. And things like that happen fairly frequently in war zones.

I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but to me, on the balance of probabilities, I don't think it was.

The point being, no one knows at this stage, so to call people incredibly naive for not agreeing is just daft. It's this absolute certainty about "your side" which is just irritating and stupid. As if we are experts in a highly complex situation from our sofas.

Whilst I agree that one can only work on the balance of probability in light of all the info available ... the information here is fairly clear that this was a deliberate strike x3 on an unarmed and clearly identifiable aid convoy which had IDF clearance to travel that route. Whether the attack was sanctioned from the top of the IDF, a local commander or some stupid callous youth sitting miles away with his xbox controller/drone killing machine controller in his hand is still unclear and will need to be ascertained. However it is clear the IDF have broken their own rules of engagement here, at best their chain of command is broken, perhaps they just allow local killing zones or it could even be a coordinated attempt to stop aid charities working in Gazza? If it is the latter then is has certainly worked!

I am so pleased that the UK Gov have had 'strong words' with Israel and Lord Cameron says an investigation into the deaths of aid workers in Gaza must happen "very, very quickly". That'll scare the shit out of Israel and stop the killing!!! However he then goes on to say his Israeli counterpart, Israel Katz, had talked about getting more aid into Gaza - including up to 500 trucks a day but added "We've been promised these things before - this really needs to happen," Duh!

In other news Biden is apparently outraged over the deaths of aid workers but will continue to sell arms to Israel, including 25 F-15s worth $18b.

[petej]

IDF have previously claimed that the technology they use in their drones etc is extremely sensitive, equipped with night vision and detailed ie they can read logos on peoples t-shirts etc before they kill them. The three cars hit were covered in World Central Kitchen logos plus they had agreed route with IDF and were in a non active combat zone. The IDF literally used the WCK logo on the top of the cars as their targets ... 3 times!

Yeah, I get it. And things like that happen fairly frequently in war zones.

I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but to me, on the balance of probabilities, I don't think it was.

The point being, no one knows at this stage, so to call people incredibly naive for not agreeing is just daft. It's this absolute certainty about "your side" which is just irritating and stupid. As if we are experts in a highly complex situation from our sofas.

Whilst I agree that one can only work on the balance of probability in light of all the info available ... the information here is fairly clear that this was a deliberate strike x3 on an unarmed and clearly identifiable aid convoy which had IDF clearance to travel that route. Whether the attack was sanctioned from the top of the IDF, a local commander or some stupid callous youth sitting miles away with his xbox controller/drone killing machine controller in his hand is still unclear and will need to be ascertained. However it is clear the IDF have broken their own rules of engagement here, at best their chain of command is broken, perhaps they just allow local killing zones or it could even be a coordinated attempt to stop aid charities working in Gazza? If it is the latter then is has certainly worked!

I am so pleased that the UK Gov have had 'strong words' with Israel and Lord Cameron says an investigation into the deaths of aid workers in Gaza must happen "very, very quickly". That'll scare the shit out of Israel and stop the killing!!! However he then goes on to say his Israeli counterpart, Israel Katz, had talked about getting more aid into Gaza - including up to 500 trucks a day but added "We've been promised these things before - this really needs to happen," Duh!

In other news Biden is apparently outraged over the deaths of aid workers but will continue to sell arms to Israel, including 25 F-15s worth $18b.

I wonder if that is stronger words they we have had with Saudi about Yemen or Russia and assorted others in Syria or Qatari's in shovelling vast quantities of cash towards Hamas? The whole region is full of religious dictatorships (israel at best is a flawed democracy with a populist prick in charge), oil, death and destruction, therefore, fucked. Your damned if you do nothing and damned if you do anything. It is deeply depressing with so many trapped in this conflict and others like Yemen and Syria.

[Jockaline]

Jesus.

IDF have previously claimed that the technology they use in their drones etc is extremely sensitive, equipped with night vision and detailed ie they can read logos on peoples t-shirts etc before they kill them. The three cars hit were covered in World Central Kitchen logos plus they had agreed route with IDF and were in a non active combat zone. The IDF literally used the WCK logo on the top of the cars as their targets ... 3 times!

Yeah, I get it. And things like that happen fairly frequently in war zones.

I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but to me, on the balance of probabilities, I don't think it was.

The point being, no one knows at this stage, so to call people incredibly naive for not agreeing is just daft. It's this absolute certainty about "your side" which is just irritating and stupid. As if we are experts in a highly complex situation from our sofas.

I'm on the side of humanity. The side that doesn't kill incidents or heroes doing aid work to prevent mass orchestrated famine. The side that respects international law, and rules of engagement in wars. A side that wants a peaceful world, Israel is far more likely to start WW3, or a least set the seeds, than the war in Ukraine ever could. I'm not on Hamas's side for clarification their actions were evil too - although like Ukraine, I do think that Palestinians have the right to attack it's occupiers, and like Israel to defend itself.

What side are you on?

[Jockaline]

Seems our government is not falling for oops sorry it was a mistake.