Not Heineken Cup 23/24

[Tichtheid]

Lol at TNT trying to make out that all of a sudden it's unfair that SA sides have to travel to Europe. Fuck off - they've been parachuted into a tournament they don't belong in, and one of the most obvious problems turns out to be a problem. Boo fucking hoo.

59 points in the end. Bye Bulls


Well played Saints. A joy to watch. Welcome to the semis!

How very sporting of you.

[JM2K6]

Lol at TNT trying to make out that all of a sudden it's unfair that SA sides have to travel to Europe. Fuck off - they've been parachuted into a tournament they don't belong in, and one of the most obvious problems turns out to be a problem. Boo fucking hoo.

59 points in the end. Bye Bulls


Well played Saints. A joy to watch. Welcome to the semis!

How very sporting of you.

Demanding the tournament changes to accommodate the blow-ins rankles, especially after Jake White's hissy fit this week. At least last year the SA sides were actually good to watch.

[ASMO]

Can't help thinking of Deliverance every time i see Sleightholme.

[Tichtheid]

Lol at TNT trying to make out that all of a sudden it's unfair that SA sides have to travel to Europe. Fuck off - they've been parachuted into a tournament they don't belong in, and one of the most obvious problems turns out to be a problem. Boo fucking hoo.

59 points in the end. Bye Bulls


Well played Saints. A joy to watch. Welcome to the semis!

How very sporting of you.

Demanding the tournament changes to accommodate the blow-ins rankles, especially after Jake White's hissy fit this week. At least last year the SA sides were actually good to watch.

There is a bit of ironing there, tbh.

[SaintK]

Can't help thinking of Deliverance every time i see Sleightholme.

You bastard

[JM2K6]

How very sporting of you.

Demanding the tournament changes to accommodate the blow-ins rankles, especially after Jake White's hissy fit this week. At least last year the SA sides were actually good to watch.

There is a bit of ironing there, tbh.

When it was legitimately European sides, almost every country had something to be dissatisfied about. France and England were hardly the only ones, just the ones able to force change - and core members of European rugby, not southern hemisphere interlopers.

The travel being crap for teams and fans was one of the first very obvious complaints when the spectre of the SA sides entering the tournament first loomed. It is extraordinarily stupid to be complaining about it now. You can see why the other Super Rugby countries tired of them.

[Tichtheid]

Demanding the tournament changes to accommodate the blow-ins rankles, especially after Jake White's hissy fit this week. At least last year the SA sides were actually good to watch.

There is a bit of ironing there, tbh.

When it was legitimately European sides, almost every country had something to be dissatisfied about. France and England were hardly the only ones, just the ones able to force change - and core members of European rugby, not southern hemisphere interlopers.

The travel being crap for teams and fans was one of the first very obvious complaints when the spectre of the SA sides entering the tournament first loomed. It is extraordinarily stupid to be complaining about it now. You can see why the other Super Rugby countries tired of them.

I can't believe anyone is in the least surprised that a professional sport chases the big markets and the money. The Genie is out the bottle and it isn't going back in until the entire sport is bankrupt.

We are where we are and it's very King Cnut like to complain about it, the money was behind the English clubs' complaints about Europe, if it wasn't they wouldn't have done so.

[Sandstorm]

“King Cnut”

[JM2K6]

There is a bit of ironing there, tbh.

When it was legitimately European sides, almost every country had something to be dissatisfied about. France and England were hardly the only ones, just the ones able to force change - and core members of European rugby, not southern hemisphere interlopers.

The travel being crap for teams and fans was one of the first very obvious complaints when the spectre of the SA sides entering the tournament first loomed. It is extraordinarily stupid to be complaining about it now. You can see why the other Super Rugby countries tired of them.

I can't believe anyone is in the least surprised that a professional sport chases the big markets and the money. The Genie is out the bottle and it isn't going back in until the entire sport is bankrupt.

We are where we are and it's very King Cnut like to complain about it, the money was behind the English clubs' complaints about Europe, if it wasn't they wouldn't have done so.

Are we pretending the Saffers are a huge financial boon to the tournament?

[Tichtheid]

When it was legitimately European sides, almost every country had something to be dissatisfied about. France and England were hardly the only ones, just the ones able to force change - and core members of European rugby, not southern hemisphere interlopers.

The travel being crap for teams and fans was one of the first very obvious complaints when the spectre of the SA sides entering the tournament first loomed. It is extraordinarily stupid to be complaining about it now. You can see why the other Super Rugby countries tired of them.

I can't believe anyone is in the least surprised that a professional sport chases the big markets and the money. The Genie is out the bottle and it isn't going back in until the entire sport is bankrupt.

We are where we are and it's very King Cnut like to complain about it, the money was behind the English clubs' complaints about Europe, if it wasn't they wouldn't have done so.

Are we pretending the Saffers are a huge financial boon to the tournament?

They bring a large tv audience and so advertising revenue and streaming revenue, so no we are not pretending.

[JM2K6]

I can't believe anyone is in the least surprised that a professional sport chases the big markets and the money. The Genie is out the bottle and it isn't going back in until the entire sport is bankrupt.

We are where we are and it's very King Cnut like to complain about it, the money was behind the English clubs' complaints about Europe, if it wasn't they wouldn't have done so.

Are we pretending the Saffers are a huge financial boon to the tournament?

They bring a large tv audience and so advertising revenue and streaming revenue, so no we are not pretending.

Do you have any numbers on this? I saw some vaguely trustworthy sources in twitter saying it wasn't a lot once you factored in extra travel costs and loss of traveling supporters. And I can't imagine the sight of the only SA side that makes it to the qf throwing a strop, complaining about it being unfair, and sending a side to concede 60 points is going to help rack up that revenue

[Uncle fester]

That sounds a bit Welsh tv money to me.

[Tichtheid]

Are we pretending the Saffers are a huge financial boon to the tournament?

They bring a large tv audience and so advertising revenue and streaming revenue, so no we are not pretending.

Do you have any numbers on this? I saw some vaguely trustworthy sources in twitter saying it wasn't a lot once you factored in extra travel costs and loss of traveling supporters. And I can't imagine the sight of the only SA side that makes it to the qf throwing a strop, complaining about it being unfair, and sending a side to concede 60 points is going to help rack up that revenue

I saw something about half a million tv viewers for South African teams' games

Now that I've googled, there is this from the URC https://www.springboks.rugby/news-featu ... %20figures.

I think as The SA teams get more used to the pace of European rugby in terms of pacing themselves for our season, they will be a bigger force - if they have their own players playing for them instead of for the European teams of course!

[JM2K6]

Ah yeah I can see how they would benefit the URC financially. Also a tournament that is easier to manage the travel. CC is a different beast though.

I have been pretty consistently against their inclusion and last season they were great to watch and I hated them being there. This season they've been largely piss so there hasn't even been that to enjoy about it.

[Tichtheid]

Ah yeah I can see how they would benefit the URC financially. Also a tournament that is easier to manage the travel. CC is a different beast though.

I have been pretty consistently against their inclusion and last season they were great to watch and I hated them being there. This season they've been largely piss so there hasn't even been that to enjoy about it.

Whit?

If they bring more subscribers and punters to advertise to, they benefit any tournament. That's just how it works.

Quins have been piss in this tournament before now, should we exclude them for that?

It is what it is, no amount of fans moaning their pusses off is going to change it as long as there is money being made, and make no mistake, this is all about money, if the SA teams weren't a financial boon they would not be here.

[JM2K6]

Ah yeah I can see how they would benefit the URC financially. Also a tournament that is easier to manage the travel. CC is a different beast though.

I have been pretty consistently against their inclusion and last season they were great to watch and I hated them being there. This season they've been largely piss so there hasn't even been that to enjoy about it.

Whit?

If they bring more subscribers and punters to advertise to, they benefit any tournament. That's just how it works.

Quins have been piss in this tournament before now, should we exclude them for that?

It is what it is, no amount of fans moaning their pusses off is going to change it as long as there is money being made, and make no mistake, this is all about money, if the SA teams weren't a financial boon they would not be here.

Quins have blown hot and cold and English sides have a good record in the tournament. There is no question English sides don't belong in Europe. I'm saying that having the SA sides there is a slightly less bitter pill to swallow if they genuinely add something on and off the field. I wasn't saying "they're crap, get rid of them", I was bemoaning the loss of the one thing I assumed they'd bring.

It's all well and good assuming they are a financial boon but there is a reason why they've had to pay extra to join and cover other teams costs. More viewers in SA is one thing, but how much is that actually worth to the competition, how much does it translate to the other games and countries, and how much does it offset the downsides of having them in the tournament.

It's no use just making vague allusions to the money and assuming it's all fine. We've seen decisions made for alleged financial benefit before that turned out to be bad ones. Right now it's clear that SA rugby is the primary beneficiary of SA sides in Europe - hence the reports from people within SA rugby seething at Jake White for upsetting the apple cart this week - and if we're going to completely ignore the farcical nature of having non European sides in Europe, of fucking with the tradition of it being a huge tournament for travelling fans, and of the insanity of teams having to travel thousands of miles for a game at altitude or whatever, then I would like some idea as to what the actual benefit looks like.

I'll still never agree with them being in the tournament but of it's of huge financial benefit to everyone then of course that makes a difference in these precarious times. I just gave seen much commentary suggesting it's not the case, and you seem confident in your statements, so I figured you might know.

[Tichtheid]

Ah yeah I can see how they would benefit the URC financially. Also a tournament that is easier to manage the travel. CC is a different beast though.

I have been pretty consistently against their inclusion and last season they were great to watch and I hated them being there. This season they've been largely piss so there hasn't even been that to enjoy about it.

Whit?

If they bring more subscribers and punters to advertise to, they benefit any tournament. That's just how it works.

Quins have been piss in this tournament before now, should we exclude them for that?

It is what it is, no amount of fans moaning their pusses off is going to change it as long as there is money being made, and make no mistake, this is all about money, if the SA teams weren't a financial boon they would not be here.

Quins have blown hot and cold and English sides have a good record in the tournament. There is no question English sides don't belong in Europe. I'm saying that having the SA sides there is a slightly less bitter pill to swallow if they genuinely add something on and off the field. I wasn't saying "they're crap, get rid of them", I was bemoaning the loss of the one thing I assumed they'd bring.

It's all well and good assuming they are a financial boon but there is a reason why they've had to pay extra to join and cover other teams costs. More viewers in SA is one thing, but how much is that actually worth to the competition, how much does it translate to the other games and countries, and how much does it offset the downsides of having them in the tournament.

It's no use just making vague allusions to the money and assuming it's all fine. We've seen decisions made for alleged financial benefit before that turned out to be bad ones. Right now it's clear that SA rugby is the primary beneficiary of SA sides in Europe - hence the reports from people within SA rugby seething at Jake White for upsetting the apple cart this week - and if we're going to completely ignore the farcical nature of having non European sides in Europe, of fucking with the tradition of it being a huge tournament for travelling fans, and of the insanity of teams having to travel thousands of miles for a game at altitude or whatever, then I would like some idea as to what the actual benefit looks like.

I'll still never agree with them being in the tournament but of it's of huge financial benefit to everyone then of course that makes a difference in these precarious times. I just gave seen much commentary suggesting it's not the case, and you seem confident in your statements, so I figured you might know.

If I'm being perfectly honest I see no reason to get hot under the collar either way. I enjoy seeing the SA teams play against our teams, the selection today from the Bulls is no more farcical than those we've seen in the past from French sides where the Top 14 is the first second and third priority. The Challenge Cup is a euphemism at best. That is where we are. I can't defend anything to do with professional rugby other than those tournaments that carried over from the amateur era, and then that makes me an anachronism.

Hey ho.

[JM2K6]

It's not just the selection from the Bulls - this was sparked by hearing TNT people demand things change to accommodate them, despite this being one of the big objections to their presence in the first place. Meanwhile, darlings Leinster thump a strangely lethargic La Rochelle who just so happened to have to travel to SA and back the previous round and no-one connects the dots...

Hohum. At least we get the club world cup now! Another great decision for the money that will definitely be of huge benefit with no down sides! (lol)

[Tichtheid]

It's not just the selection from the Bulls - this was sparked by hearing TNT people demand things change to accommodate them, despite this being one of the big objections to their presence in the first place. Meanwhile, darlings Leinster thump a strangely lethargic La Rochelle who just so happened to have to travel to SA and back the previous round and no-one connects the dots...

Hohum. At least we get the club world cup now! Another great decision for the money that will definitely be of huge benefit with no down sides! (lol)

Go and support your local amateur club every other Saturday, that's what I'm going to do as soon as I get back to Scotland before next season.

The pro game is always going to be nonsense, even if the skills are waaaaay beyond what we achieved.

[Paddington Bear]

Just watched the first two games on record. Decided (correctly) to sack off the Saints game in favour of checking the score and watching the golf.

I always support the English team in Europe, but often in a very half hearted ‘just hope it’s close’ kind of way. Quite genuinely cheered when Quins won that. One of the all time great English club wins in France.

[JM2K6]

It's not just the selection from the Bulls - this was sparked by hearing TNT people demand things change to accommodate them, despite this being one of the big objections to their presence in the first place. Meanwhile, darlings Leinster thump a strangely lethargic La Rochelle who just so happened to have to travel to SA and back the previous round and no-one connects the dots...

Hohum. At least we get the club world cup now! Another great decision for the money that will definitely be of huge benefit with no down sides! (lol)

Go and support your local amateur club every other Saturday, that's what I'm going to do as soon as I get back to Scotland before next season.

The pro game is always going to be nonsense, even if the skills are waaaaay beyond what we achieved.

Yeah, not a bad shout. Mine are pretty fun to watch tbh

[Tichtheid]

It's not just the selection from the Bulls - this was sparked by hearing TNT people demand things change to accommodate them, despite this being one of the big objections to their presence in the first place. Meanwhile, darlings Leinster thump a strangely lethargic La Rochelle who just so happened to have to travel to SA and back the previous round and no-one connects the dots...

Hohum. At least we get the club world cup now! Another great decision for the money that will definitely be of huge benefit with no down sides! (lol)

Go and support your local amateur club every other Saturday, that's what I'm going to do as soon as I get back to Scotland before next season.

The pro game is always going to be nonsense, even if the skills are waaaaay beyond what we achieved.

Yeah, not a bad shout. Mine are pretty fun to watch tbh

I'm going to support the club I first played for as a 14 year old in the 3rds.

My school mates have become the Blazers there

[fishfoodie]

The English & French have continually fucked around with the format & composition of the European competitions, so forgive us poor relatives if we regard the latest bleatings as sour grapes.

Me, I find it interesting the number of SA players returning to play for SA sides in the URC !

It says that both the players & the clubs see it as being better to be in the URC, than the Premiershp.

The English & French leagues had plenty of opportunities to re-divide the cake, or re-structure the leagues before the Saffer sides joined the URC, but it was always about the big two first, so they can't complain now that the URC looked after their own position, when that was always what they did along the way.

Bottom line; you made the bed, now you can lie in it !

[JM2K6]

Great analysis bro, no glaring problems with those assertions at all

[ASMO]

Previous post removed, stepped over the line, a reminder to all, do not bring someone's family into it.

[Slick]

Involving SA in anything just isn’t worth the hassle.

[Sandstorm]

Involving SA in anything just isn’t worth the hassle.

Except poaching.

[Slick]

Involving SA in anything just isn’t worth the hassle.

Except poaching.

At least then you get to choose the nice ones

[Sandstorm]

Involving SA in anything just isn’t worth the hassle.

Except poaching.

At least then you get to choose the nice ones

We have some nice ones???

[Simian]

Just watched the first two games on record. Decided (correctly) to sack off the Saints game in favour of checking the score and watching the golf.

I always support the English team in Europe, but often in a very half hearted ‘just hope it’s close’ kind of way. Quite genuinely cheered when Quins won that. One of the all time great English club wins in France.

It really was

[OomStruisbaai]

Jake White sending a B team to a Sauter final deserved to get a hiding.

Was Tyrone Green MOTM yesterday? Suppose he is English?

[ASMO]

Personally i thought Finn Baxter was POM, he pretty much dismantled the Bulls at scrumtime.

[JM2K6]

Aw. If someone had a pop at me I feel disappointed not to have seen it at least.

Jake White sending a B team to a Sauter final deserved to get a hiding.

Was Tyrone Green MOTM yesterday? Suppose he is English?

Extremely strange point. The issue is about changing the competition to benefit south African teams, not whether south African players exist or are any good.

Porter or Collier or Baxter or Evans all had better games fwiw but

[Slick]

Except poaching.

At least then you get to choose the nice ones

We have some nice ones???

Two. And Duhan is too thick to be really offensive

[SaintK]

Personally i thought Finn Baxter was POM, he pretty much dismantled the Bulls at scrumtime.

I thought Baxter was exceptional around the field not just at scrum time.

[SaintK]

How come Leinster have a home draw for the semi?

[OomStruisbaai]

Aw. If someone had a pop at me I feel disappointed not to have seen it at least.

Jake White sending a B team to a Sauter final deserved to get a hiding.

Was Tyrone Green MOTM yesterday? Suppose he is English?

Extremely strange point. The issue is about changing the competition to benefit south African teams, not whether south African players exist or are any good.

Porter or Collier or Baxter or Evans all had better games fwiw but

Saffer selecting Green?

[JM2K6]

Aw. If someone had a pop at me I feel disappointed not to have seen it at least.

Jake White sending a B team to a Sauter final deserved to get a hiding.

Was Tyrone Green MOTM yesterday? Suppose he is English?

Extremely strange point. The issue is about changing the competition to benefit south African teams, not whether south African players exist or are any good.

Porter or Collier or Baxter or Evans all had better games fwiw but

Saffer selecting Green?

Please get to your point soon

[OomStruisbaai]

Aw. If someone had a pop at me I feel disappointed not to have seen it at least.



Extremely strange point. The issue is about changing the competition to benefit south African teams, not whether south African players exist or are any good.

Porter or Collier or Baxter or Evans all had better games fwiw but

Saffer selecting Green?

Please get to your point soon

Why? It took me hours to read your long Filofaxes.

[GrahamWa]

How come Leinster have a home draw for the semi?

Top seeds:

Possible venues

Toulouse (1) v Bordeaux-Begles (4) or Harlequins (5) – Le Stadium, Toulouse (capacity: 33,150)

Leinster (2) v Northampton Saints (3) or Bulls (6) – Croke Park, Dublin (capacity: 82,300)

Northampton Saints (3) v La Rochelle (10) – Stadium MK, Milton Keynes (capacity: 30,500)

Bordeaux-Bègles (4) v Exeter Chiefs (8) – Matmut Atlantique, Bordeaux (capacity: 42,100).

Harlequins (5) v Exeter Chiefs (8) – Ashton Gate Stadium (capacity: 27,000)

Bulls (6) v La Rochelle (10) – UK venue TBC