Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Paddington Bear]

Paddington, a basic issue with privatisation at this point is a) they need to make a profit, b) the parasitic nature of our service industries and management culture and the cost of it makes them inefficient. We spend more and more on administration and less and less on the actual service and who runs it. Compared to private healthcare in America the NHS is incredibly efficient with far, far lower administrative costs. With out sourcing work the cost of the work isn't that much but the administrative cost of two sets of commercial, financial and legal people is significant.

Edit: I would add if you are dealing with a regulatory issue go direct to the regulator and avoid consultants and legal people who make things far more painful than necessary while charging lots of money.

America is a terrible healthcare comparator. France/Germany/Holland are much better to compare against.

No disputes on management culture. I dispute the idea that nationalising something = same positive outcomes as privatised services with fewer negatives. Again and again nationalised industries/utilities end up a total shitshow

They are at least then a shitshow we own and depressingly pumped less money into. With water we could end up 60billion of debt while a bunch of cunts wander off with 60 billion. A big problem with the current gov is they are so ideologically fixed on privatisation they won't enforce the rules and the water companies are essentially playing chicken with them knowing the government are weak.

I agree that there is no reason at all to leave TW’s creditors with anything but their dick in their hands. Nationalised water had a dismal record though!

[petej]

America is a terrible healthcare comparator. France/Germany/Holland are much better to compare against.

No disputes on management culture. I dispute the idea that nationalising something = same positive outcomes as privatised services with fewer negatives. Again and again nationalised industries/utilities end up a total shitshow

They are at least then a shitshow we own and depressingly pumped less money into. With water we could end up 60billion of debt while a bunch of cunts wander off with 60 billion. A big problem with the current gov is they are so ideologically fixed on privatisation they won't enforce the rules and the water companies are essentially playing chicken with them knowing the government are weak.

I agree that there is no reason at all to leave TW’s creditors with anything but their dick in their hands. Nationalised water had a dismal record though!

I would probably run them as not for profits rather then fully nationalised.

[epwc]

Probably can be made to work with a bit of thought.

That could be applied to just about everything government does at the moment

[sockwithaticket]

Great news for British politics. Although I assume the Telegraph will just turn into written GBNews with Marshall at the helm. Not that it is hugely different now anyway I guess.

Turn into...?

Admittedly I haven't subjected myself to watching any of GBeebies, so perhaps it is indeed worse than even the Torgraph at it's current swivel-eyed nadir.

[SaintK]

I'm sure she'll feel right at home.

Rishi Sunak is being urged to stop his former home secretary from attending a rightwing convention featuring figures who have been under investigation for extremism, in the latest sign of his waning control of his party.
Suella Braverman, who has been a central plotter against the prime minister since she left the cabinet, is set to be one of the keynote speakers at the National Conservatism (NatCon) conference in Brussels this week.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ ... ktor-orban

[C69]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

[sefton]

I'm sure she'll feel right at home.

Rishi Sunak is being urged to stop his former home secretary from attending a rightwing convention featuring figures who have been under investigation for extremism, in the latest sign of his waning control of his party.
Suella Braverman, who has been a central plotter against the prime minister since she left the cabinet, is set to be one of the keynote speakers at the National Conservatism (NatCon) conference in Brussels this week.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ ... ktor-orban

She can be added to Gove’s list.

[Hal Jordan]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Nine more months of it until the election.

[Uncle fester]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Police weren't going to charge her until tories kicked up a fuss?

[C69]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Police weren't going to charge her until tories kicked up a fuss?

I suspect it's going to be like this plus a culture war ad nauseum.

[dpedin]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Police weren't going to charge her until tories kicked up a fuss?

I suspect it's going to be like this plus a culture war ad nauseum.

Opening a Pandoras box with this one! I imagine there are a few Tory MPs etc sleeping slightly uneasily tonight as their Party decide to pursue this. Tory HQ must have done the sums and reckoned trying to get rid of Rayner is worth losing a few more MPs for? Problem the tories have in going this low is that they bump into all their colleagues down in the quagmire of shit they want to plumb. I. suspect this will come back and bite them on the bum.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah, if you go digging, I wonder how many Tories might also be owing tax for various things.

The contrast in how the client press are handling this and Zahawi's multi-million pound tax snafu is night and day.


HIlarious head and strap line in the Guardian today:

Senior Tories fear Johnson and Truss will sabotage Sunak’s election campaign

Concerns that vicious circle of party ill-discipline is undermining the PM’s ability to restore order

Sunak's been doing a grand enough job of undermining himself. Johnson and Truss don't need to do a thing.

[C69]

Truss' book out next week.
The Tories warfare and divisions will be a sight to behold
Surely the Police will resolve the Rayner thing very quickly, you would have thought Starmer knows exactly where this is going.
I suspect the die has been cast now and shit loads of crap from years onis going to resurface.
IDS on TV earlier said this really is not a path the Tories should be going down. Very different to the tone of Shaps.
If it comes to nought then Rayner will laud it like the Red Working Class queen and milk the posh Tory attacks.
It could be a very dangerous game.

[Ymx]

Ginger growler rumour update

[Ymx]

Why is it a police matter rather than HMRC ?

Is this because they are pursuing her for electoral register fraud, rather than tax evasion? Or do the HMRC sometimes use the police to investigate?

[Tichtheid]

Leak reveals Tory plan to cut cold weather cash for disabled people


https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... led-people

[Ymx]

He joined Angela Rayner's team as a volunteer in 2013, helping her win the Ashton-under-Lyne seat at the 2015 General Election, before subsequently joining her staff.

As her SpAd, he was responsible for all media liaison, speech writing, op-eds and providing strategic communications advice. It's no coincidence that Mrs Rayner soon became a prominent Labour front-bencher.

They parted company in August 2017 - "the worst year of my life, but mainly for personal reasons", he now recalls.

Matt left the Labour Party in 2018 in disgust at the prevalent anti-semitism within Labour's ranks - his father served with British forces who had liberated Bergen-Belsen in 1945 and the graphic accounts of what they witnessed have had an enduring impact on Matt's values and beliefs.

[C69]

Why is it a police matter rather than HMRC ?

Is this because they are pursuing her for electoral register fraud, rather than tax evasion? Or do the HMRC sometimes use the police to investigate?

I think it's the electoral issue. I did hear that if this is to be pursued then it should be done within a year.
However let's get it done and dusted, if she is guilty then she is toast and her political career is over.
If not then it's going to be very spicy.
I think the gloves are off and it's going to be carnage.

[petej]

He joined Angela Rayner's team as a volunteer in 2013, helping her win the Ashton-under-Lyne seat at the 2015 General Election, before subsequently joining her staff.

As her SpAd, he was responsible for all media liaison, speech writing, op-eds and providing strategic communications advice. It's no coincidence that Mrs Rayner soon became a prominent Labour front-bencher.

They parted company in August 2017 - "the worst year of my life, but mainly for personal reasons", he now recalls.

Matt left the Labour Party in 2018 in disgust at the prevalent anti-semitism within Labour's ranks - his father served with British forces who had liberated Bergen-Belsen in 1945 and the graphic accounts of what they witnessed have had an enduring impact on Matt's values and beliefs.

The mail with its own history and the owners family should really avoid anything about Nazis and WW2. Going further it is well known that the non-dom owners of the mail predominantly reside in Surrey not France. The rules really don't apply to the elite.

As for the police rather than the HMC. I would guess that is due to political pressure.

[SaintK]

He joined Angela Rayner's team as a volunteer in 2013, helping her win the Ashton-under-Lyne seat at the 2015 General Election, before subsequently joining her staff.

As her SpAd, he was responsible for all media liaison, speech writing, op-eds and providing strategic communications advice. It's no coincidence that Mrs Rayner soon became a prominent Labour front-bencher.

They parted company in August 2017 - "the worst year of my life, but mainly for personal reasons", he now recalls.

Matt left the Labour Party in 2018 in disgust at the prevalent anti-semitism within Labour's ranks - his father served with British forces who had liberated Bergen-Belsen in 1945 and the graphic accounts of what they witnessed have had an enduring impact on Matt's values and beliefs.

Ex-employee.........no axe to grind there then?
Daily Mail will have paid well for the quotes.

[Tichtheid]

He joined Angela Rayner's team as a volunteer in 2013, helping her win the Ashton-under-Lyne seat at the 2015 General Election, before subsequently joining her staff.

As her SpAd, he was responsible for all media liaison, speech writing, op-eds and providing strategic communications advice. It's no coincidence that Mrs Rayner soon became a prominent Labour front-bencher.

They parted company in August 2017 - "the worst year of my life, but mainly for personal reasons", he now recalls.

Matt left the Labour Party in 2018 in disgust at the prevalent anti-semitism within Labour's ranks - his father served with British forces who had liberated Bergen-Belsen in 1945 and the graphic accounts of what they witnessed have had an enduring impact on Matt's values and beliefs.

Ex-employee.........no axe to grind there then?
Daily Mail will have paid well for the quotes.

Ex-employee who settled on an unfair dismissal claim

[tabascoboy]

Why is it a police matter rather than HMRC ?

Is this because they are pursuing her for electoral register fraud, rather than tax evasion? Or do the HMRC sometimes use the police to investigate?

I think it's the electoral issue. I did hear that if this is to be pursued then it should be done within a year.
However let's get it done and dusted, if she is guilty then she is toast and her political career is over.
If not then it's going to be very spicy.
I think the gloves are off and it's going to be carnage.

And if she is guilty it will still be very spicy, no reason for Labour to hold back on Tory/Reform suspects of alleged wrong-doing - only unluckily for them they don't have a tame media support base to put the boot in on their behalf

[I like neeps]

Imagine how much better UK society would be if the mail were so relentless in exposing every tax cheat, not just the labour ones.

[sockwithaticket]

Imagine how much better UK society would be if the mail were so relentless in exposing every tax cheat, not just the labour ones.

Even saying she's a Labour tax cheat is giving the mail too much credit and playing into their narrative. The News Agents had some apparent expert on and he went through the whole thing pointing out, with a bunch of caveats around circumstances, that there's anything between no case to answer and £1500 owed.

I've no doubt Labour probably do have some egregious offenders in their ranks, though I'd imagine it's the likes of Mandelson rather than Creasy, but the Mail are going after Rayner because of her prominent position in the party and because, at heart, the right wing is still pretty mysoginistic.

[dpedin]

As the motto goes 'Never shit on your own doorstep' yet the tories are happy to commit hari kari by shitting big style on their own doorstep! Mad. Why make tax evasion and electoral fraud as the issues given their own shitfest of both? They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one.

Starmer is a pretty bright lawyer and will know exactly where he stands on all of this, he might also be not too unhappy if he has to replace Rayner as his Deputy. I imagine he sees this as a possible win:win situation plus the tories have opened the door to all sorts of dirt on Tory MPs, funders and supporters going public. However I suspect the Wragg honey trap situation with possibly Ministers implicated is the reason for this major dead cat/suicide wish.

[I like neeps]

Imagine how much better UK society would be if the mail were so relentless in exposing every tax cheat, not just the labour ones.

Even saying she's a Labour tax cheat is giving the mail too much credit and playing into their narrative. The News Agents had some apparent expert on and he went through the whole thing pointing out, with a bunch of caveats around circumstances, that there's anything between no case to answer and £1500 owed.

I've no doubt Labour probably do have some egregious offenders in their ranks, though I'd imagine it's the likes of Mandelson rather than Creasy, but the Mail are going after Rayner because of her prominent position in the party and because, at heart, the right wing is still pretty mysoginistic.

Ah fair, I assumed she'd done something because her defence from the leadership has been so erratic.

[I like neeps]

As the motto goes 'Never shit on your own doorstep' yet the tories are happy to commit hari kari by shitting big style on their own doorstep! Mad. Why make tax evasion and electoral fraud as the issues given their own shitfest of both? They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one.

Starmer is a pretty bright lawyer and will know exactly where he stands on all of this, he might also be not too unhappy if he has to replace Rayner as his Deputy. I imagine he sees this as a possible win:win situation plus the tories have opened the door to all sorts of dirt on Tory MPs, funders and supporters going public. However I suspect the Wragg honey trap situation with possibly Ministers implicated is the reason for this major dead cat/suicide wish.

To make a stink of tax evasion/fraud whatever you need to have a complaint press of attack dogs.

Starmer won't get cut through because the press won't publish it. Sadly.

[Ymx]

He joined Angela Rayner's team as a volunteer in 2013, helping her win the Ashton-under-Lyne seat at the 2015 General Election, before subsequently joining her staff.

As her SpAd, he was responsible for all media liaison, speech writing, op-eds and providing strategic communications advice. It's no coincidence that Mrs Rayner soon became a prominent Labour front-bencher.

They parted company in August 2017 - "the worst year of my life, but mainly for personal reasons", he now recalls.

Matt left the Labour Party in 2018 in disgust at the prevalent anti-semitism within Labour's ranks - his father served with British forces who had liberated Bergen-Belsen in 1945 and the graphic accounts of what they witnessed have had an enduring impact on Matt's values and beliefs.

The mail with its own history and the owners family should really avoid anything about Nazis and WW2. Going further it is well known that the non-dom owners of the mail predominantly reside in Surrey not France. The rules really don't apply to the elite.

As for the police rather than the HMC. I would guess that is due to political pressure.

That’s not from the mail - it’s from his own Bio

[Biffer]

The mail with its own history and the owners family should really avoid anything about Nazis and WW2. Going further it is well known that the non-dom owners of the mail predominantly reside in Surrey not France. The rules really don't apply to the elite.

As for the police rather than the HMC. I would guess that is due to political pressure.

That’s not from the mail - it’s from his own Bio

So the bit you put in a quote isn’t a quote.

[Ymx]

The mail with its own history and the owners family should really avoid anything about Nazis and WW2. Going further it is well known that the non-dom owners of the mail predominantly reside in Surrey not France. The rules really don't apply to the elite.

As for the police rather than the HMC. I would guess that is due to political pressure.

That’s not from the mail - it’s from his own Bio

So the bit you put in a quote isn’t a quote.

It was an excerpt from the www, which we usually place in quotes.

Got it ?!! Or are you struggling still.

Here is the link if this helps you struggle less
https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/author/B07RYYTL1P/about

[Biffer]

That’s not from the mail - it’s from his own Bio

So the bit you put in a quote isn’t a quote.

It was an excerpt from the www, which we usually place in quotes.

Got it ?!! Or are you struggling still.

Here is the link if this helps you struggle less
https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/author/B07RYYTL1P/about

So you point to a Mail story then put a quote in from a different, unlinked source.

Pretty typical right wing loon misdirection.

[Ymx]

So the bit you put in a quote isn’t a quote.

It was an excerpt from the www, which we usually place in quotes.

Got it ?!! Or are you struggling still.

Here is the link if this helps you struggle less
https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/author/B07RYYTL1P/about

So you point to a Mail story then put a quote in from a different, unlinked source.

Pretty typical right wing loon misdirection.

Yes, I appreciate it might have been confusing up until the bit where I clarified it was from his bio and not the mail.

But why it still confused you after that is a mystery to me.

[C69]

Ymx FFS

[Camroc2]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Serious question.

Since when do the police get involved in what is essentially a revenue matter ?

Certainly in Ireland the revenue have far more powerful investigative powers than the police do, and if they think you've been economical with the truth in your return, will go through you like a dose of salts to get their money plus usurious interest plus penalties, and hand you broken and broke to the police afterwards.

[C69]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Serious question.

Since when do the police get involved in what is essentially a revenue matter ?

Certainly in Ireland the revenue have far more powerful investigative powers than the police do, and if they think you've been economical with the truth in your return, will go through you like a dose of salts to get their money plus usurious interest plus penalties, and hand you broken and broke to the police afterwards.

This is slightly different, it's related to electoral issues not the tax. Did she register her correct address for electoral issues.
It's quite pathetic really.

[Tichtheid]

Rayner to step down if found guilty of a crime.
Whilst I personally dislike Rayner, if she is found to have no case to answer then this may really bite the Tories in the arse.
Hopefully this distraction is sorted quickly.
It all seems quite vindictive and petty tbh but hey this is going to get very dirty.

Serious question.

Since when do the police get involved in what is essentially a revenue matter ?

Certainly in Ireland the revenue have far more powerful investigative powers than the police do, and if they think you've been economical with the truth in your return, will go through you like a dose of salts to get their money plus usurious interest plus penalties, and hand you broken and broke to the police afterwards.

This is slightly different, it's related to electoral issues not the tax. Did she register her correct address for electoral issues.
It's quite pathetic really.

That’s the thing, they are about eight years too late in being able to bring about any prosecution, the police must know that, so why are they pursuing this?

[dpedin]

Serious question.

Since when do the police get involved in what is essentially a revenue matter ?

Certainly in Ireland the revenue have far more powerful investigative powers than the police do, and if they think you've been economical with the truth in your return, will go through you like a dose of salts to get their money plus usurious interest plus penalties, and hand you broken and broke to the police afterwards.

This is slightly different, it's related to electoral issues not the tax. Did she register her correct address for electoral issues.
It's quite pathetic really.

That’s the thing, they are about eight years too late in being able to bring about any prosecution, the police must know that, so why are they pursuing this?

Polis leant on by Tory politicians and take easiest route ie do what they are told and 'launch' an enquiry and then in a couple of weeks quietly drop it saying nothing to see here. Meanwhile news agenda will have moved on and damage will have been done by Mail, Express, etc and some folk will actually believe she had committed a crime. A few months down the road and the Chief Constable or whatever they are called get their gong in the next honours list. It is how it works folks.

[Lobby]

Serious question.

Since when do the police get involved in what is essentially a revenue matter ?

Certainly in Ireland the revenue have far more powerful investigative powers than the police do, and if they think you've been economical with the truth in your return, will go through you like a dose of salts to get their money plus usurious interest plus penalties, and hand you broken and broke to the police afterwards.

This is slightly different, it's related to electoral issues not the tax. Did she register her correct address for electoral issues.
It's quite pathetic really.

That’s the thing, they are about eight years too late in being able to bring about any prosecution, the police must know that, so why are they pursuing this?

They're looking into it because the Deputy Chair of the Tory Party complained to them when they originally said there was nothing to investigate.

At the moment, as I understand it, they are examining the information he has said they have to look at (electoral rolls etc) to determine "whether any offences have been committed". The Tory press and their client journalists and commentators like Dan Hodges are presenting this as if Rayner is definitely guilty and is about to be arrested, but the likelihood is that the police will eventually say that no offences have been committed. Its like the orchestrated beer and pizza allegations about Starmer all over again.

[sturginho]

This is slightly different, it's related to electoral issues not the tax. Did she register her correct address for electoral issues.
It's quite pathetic really.

That’s the thing, they are about eight years too late in being able to bring about any prosecution, the police must know that, so why are they pursuing this?

They're looking into it because the Deputy Chair of the Tory Party complained to them when they originally said there was nothing to investigate.

At the moment, as I understand it, they are examining the information he has said they have to look at (electoral rolls etc) to determine "whether any offences have been committed". The Tory press and their client journalists and commentators like Dan Hodges are presenting this as if Rayner is definitely guilty and is about to be arrested, but the likelihood is that the police will eventually say that no offences have been committed. Its like the orchestrated beer and pizza allegations about Starmer all over again.

And on TV he couldn't say what offence he thinks she has committed that he wanted the police to look into

[robmatic]

This is slightly different, it's related to electoral issues not the tax. Did she register her correct address for electoral issues.
It's quite pathetic really.

That’s the thing, they are about eight years too late in being able to bring about any prosecution, the police must know that, so why are they pursuing this?

They're looking into it because the Deputy Chair of the Tory Party complained to them when they originally said there was nothing to investigate.

At the moment, as I understand it, they are examining the information he has said they have to look at (electoral rolls etc) to determine "whether any offences have been committed". The Tory press and their client journalists and commentators like Dan Hodges are presenting this as if Rayner is definitely guilty and is about to be arrested, but the likelihood is that the police will eventually say that no offences have been committed. Its like the orchestrated beer and pizza allegations about Starmer all over again.

I turned on the BBC news yesterday or the day before and this story was getting an inordinate amount of airtime for what must be a relatively minor issue in the grand scale of MP misbehaviour. Mission accomplished.