Kicking off in Israel

[Enzedder]

You are correct, but I still think your point is a daft one.

[Guy Smiley]

You are correct, but I still think your point is a daft one.

So is yours considering Israel had a shitload of intel warning them of the impending attack and they did nothing and let it happen.

[Uncle fester]

You are correct, but I still think your point is a daft one.

It's relevant to Petej's point re Israel's siege mentality.
Israel are able to keep death by Hamas under the level of death by road traffic accident over the course of a decade, therefore Has threat is under control and Petej's point doesn't hold water.

[Uncle fester]

Meanwhile in the West Bank.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... dApp_Other

[I like neeps]

THE US HAS said it is inquiring with Israel about reports that a mass graves has been uncovered at a hospital in Gaza.

Gaza’s Civil Defence agency yesterday said that health workers had uncovered around 200 bodies over the past three days of people killed and buried by Israeli forces at a hospital in Khan Yunis.

Speaking to reporters, US State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said he has seen the reports and that the US is “inquiring about it with the Government of Israel”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/mass-grave-fo ... 8-Apr2024/

The US "yeah we're enquiring with Mr Putin about these mass graves in Bucha".

[Tichtheid]

THE US HAS said it is inquiring with Israel about reports that a mass graves has been uncovered at a hospital in Gaza.

Gaza’s Civil Defence agency yesterday said that health workers had uncovered around 200 bodies over the past three days of people killed and buried by Israeli forces at a hospital in Khan Yunis.

Speaking to reporters, US State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said he has seen the reports and that the US is “inquiring about it with the Government of Israel”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/mass-grave-fo ... 8-Apr2024/

The US "yeah we're enquiring with Mr Putin about these mass graves in Bucha".

UN rights chief ‘horrified’ by reports of mass graves at two Gaza hospitals
Spokesperson says some bodies allegedly had their hands tied while others were bound and stripped


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... -hospitals

[epwc]

I don't think Israel has any right to the moral high ground here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68780112

[Tichtheid]

The IPC acute food insecurity analysis conducted in December 2023 warned of a risk that Famine may occur by the end of May 2024 if an immediate cessation of hostilities and sustained access for the provision of essential supplies and services to the population did not take place. Since then, the conditions necessary to prevent famine have not been met and the latest evidence confirms that Famine is imminent in the northern governorates and projected to occur anytime between mid-March and May 2024.

According to the most likely scenario, both North Gaza and Gaza Governorates are classified in IPC Phase 5 (Famine) with reasonable evidence, with 70% (around 210,000 people) of the population in IPC Phase 5 (Catastrophe). Continued conflict and the near-complete lack of access to the northern governorates for humanitarian organizations and commercial trucks will likely compound heightened vulnerabilities and extremely limited food availability, access and utilization, as well as access to healthcare, water, and sanitation. The famine threshold for household acute food insecurity has already been far exceeded and, given the latest data showing a steeply increasing trend in cases of acute malnutrition, it is highly likely that the famine threshold for acute malnutrition has also been exceeded. The upward trend in non-trauma mortality is also expected to accelerate, resulting in all famine thresholds likely to be passed imminently.

The southern governorates of Deir al-Balah and Khan Younis, and the Governorate of Rafah, are classified in IPC Phase 4 (Emergency). However, in a worst-case scenario, these governorates face a risk of Famine through July 2024.

The entire population in the Gaza Strip (2.23 million) is facing high levels of acute food insecurity. Between mid-March and mid-July, in the most likely scenario and under the assumption of an escalation of the conflict including a ground offensive in Rafah, half of the population of the Gaza Strip (1.11 million people) is expected to face catastrophic conditions (IPC Phase 5), the most severe level in the IPC Acute Food Insecurity scale. This is an increase of 530,000 people (92 percent) compared to the previous analysis.

https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipcinfo-website ... sue-97/en/


edit, there is more on this here https://www.csis.org/analysis/famine-gaza

What are the timescales for the temporary pier the Americans are building? As that seems to be the only likely way significant aid is going to get into Gaza now. It's a shame they can't mobilise some of the US Navy's roll on/roll off vessels in the interim.

I remembered this question when I read this depressing article


‘Smokescreen’: officials voice concern over US plans for Gaza aid pier
Fears Israel is influencing location of dock away from the north, where famine threat is most severe
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... a-aid-pier

[geordie_6]

The IPC acute food insecurity analysis conducted in December 2023 warned of a risk that Famine may occur by the end of May 2024 if an immediate cessation of hostilities and sustained access for the provision of essential supplies and services to the population did not take place. Since then, the conditions necessary to prevent famine have not been met and the latest evidence confirms that Famine is imminent in the northern governorates and projected to occur anytime between mid-March and May 2024.

According to the most likely scenario, both North Gaza and Gaza Governorates are classified in IPC Phase 5 (Famine) with reasonable evidence, with 70% (around 210,000 people) of the population in IPC Phase 5 (Catastrophe). Continued conflict and the near-complete lack of access to the northern governorates for humanitarian organizations and commercial trucks will likely compound heightened vulnerabilities and extremely limited food availability, access and utilization, as well as access to healthcare, water, and sanitation. The famine threshold for household acute food insecurity has already been far exceeded and, given the latest data showing a steeply increasing trend in cases of acute malnutrition, it is highly likely that the famine threshold for acute malnutrition has also been exceeded. The upward trend in non-trauma mortality is also expected to accelerate, resulting in all famine thresholds likely to be passed imminently.

The southern governorates of Deir al-Balah and Khan Younis, and the Governorate of Rafah, are classified in IPC Phase 4 (Emergency). However, in a worst-case scenario, these governorates face a risk of Famine through July 2024.

The entire population in the Gaza Strip (2.23 million) is facing high levels of acute food insecurity. Between mid-March and mid-July, in the most likely scenario and under the assumption of an escalation of the conflict including a ground offensive in Rafah, half of the population of the Gaza Strip (1.11 million people) is expected to face catastrophic conditions (IPC Phase 5), the most severe level in the IPC Acute Food Insecurity scale. This is an increase of 530,000 people (92 percent) compared to the previous analysis.

https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipcinfo-website ... sue-97/en/


edit, there is more on this here https://www.csis.org/analysis/famine-gaza

What are the timescales for the temporary pier the Americans are building? As that seems to be the only likely way significant aid is going to get into Gaza now. It's a shame they can't mobilise some of the US Navy's roll on/roll off vessels in the interim.

I remembered this question when I read this depressing article


‘Smokescreen’: officials voice concern over US plans for Gaza aid pier
Fears Israel is influencing location of dock away from the north, where famine threat is most severe
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... a-aid-pier

Thanks for sharing that. The US surely can't allow Israel to dictate where they will land humanitarian aid, or risk further loss of credibility amongst other partners.

[Guy Smiley]

Israel has still not provided any information supporting it's assertion that UNRWA employees were Hamas operatives.

We can probably put that down as another lie from them, then.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148821

“Israel made public claims that a significant number of UNRWA employees are members of terrorist organisations. However, Israel has yet to provide supporting evidence of this,” according to the 54-page final report, Independent review of mechanisms and procedures to ensure adherence by UNRWA to the humanitarian principle of neutrality.

The UN Secretary-General, who received the final report at the weekend, had appointed the independent review group days after Israel announced the allegations against UNRWA, which employees 30,000 people and serves 5.9 million Palestine refugees in the West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and war-torn Gaza.

The much-awaited final report found that UNRWA, established by the General Assembly in 1949, has extensive tools in place to ensure it remains unbiased in its work and routinely provides Israel with employee lists and “the Israeli Government has not informed UNRWA of any concerns relating to any UNRWA staff based on these staff lists since 2011.”

[epwc]

Israel has still not provided any information supporting it's assertion that UNRWA employees were Hamas operatives.

We can probably put that down as another lie from them, then.

But they don't lie

[epwc]

Nice to see the US has signed off more military aid though

[petej]

You are correct, but I still think your point is a daft one.

It's relevant to Petej's point re Israel's siege mentality.
Israel are able to keep death by Hamas under the level of death by road traffic accident over the course of a decade, therefore Has threat is under control and Petej's point doesn't hold water.

My point does hold water. How has hamas stayed in control of gaza and who funds them? It is not about keeping control of a threat it is about getting rid of it.

[Uncle fester]

You are correct, but I still think your point is a daft one.

It's relevant to Petej's point re Israel's siege mentality.
Israel are able to keep death by Hamas under the level of death by road traffic accident over the course of a decade, therefore Has threat is under control and Petej's point doesn't hold water.

My point does hold water. How has hamas stayed in control of gaza and who funds them? It is not about keeping control of a threat it is about getting rid of it.

Part of the answer to your question is... Israel.
They have promoted and funded Hamas in order to weaken Fatah control over the Palestinian territories and tried to split Gaza from the West Bank politically.

It's fair to say that this one has backfired spectacularly.

[Tilly Orifice]

You are correct, but I still think your point is a daft one.

It's relevant to Petej's point re Israel's siege mentality.
Israel are able to keep death by Hamas under the level of death by road traffic accident over the course of a decade, therefore Has threat is under control and Petej's point doesn't hold water.

My point does hold water. How has hamas stayed in control of gaza and who funds them? It is not about keeping control of a threat it is about getting rid of it.

I love how blithely people can say that. Have you ever been outside of your house, even?

[Ymx]

Israel has still not provided any information supporting it's assertion that UNRWA employees were Hamas operatives.

We can probably put that down as another lie from them, then.

But they don't lie

[Tichtheid]

This is the actual article with that headline

Israel yet to provide evidence to back UNRWA 7 October attack claims – UN
This article is more than 1 month old
Allegations against 12 employees led major donors to suspend funding to UN Palestinian agency despite hunger crisis in Gaza


A month after Israeli allegations that a dozen United Nations staff were involved in the 7 October Hamas attack, UN investigators have yet to receive any evidence from Israel to support the claims, though they expect some material to be forthcoming “shortly”.

The allegations against the 12 employees of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA) led 16 major donors to suspend contributions totalling $450m at a time when more than 2 million Gazans are facing famine. UNRWA says it is approaching “breaking point” and only has sufficient funds to continue functioning for the next month at most.

The UN Office of Internal Oversight Services (OIOS) launched an investigation on 29 January in the wake of the Israeli allegations initially presented to UNRWA in January, and delivered an update on its work to the UN secretary general, António Guterres, on Wednesday.

Diplomats who saw the OIOS preliminary report said it contained no new evidence from Israel since the initial presentation of the claims in January – which were not backed by any proof. In summarising the findings, the UN spokesperson, Stéphane Dujarric, confirmed that the investigation had yet to receive corroborating material from Israel.

“OIOS investigators have reviewed the initial information received by UNRWA from Israeli authorities,” Dujarric said on Thursday. “The investigation remains ongoing. OIOS will seek to corroborate additional information and to compare the information obtained with materials held by Israeli authorities, which OIOS expects to receive shortly.

“OIOS staff are planning to visit Israel soon to obtain information from Israeli authorities that may be relevant to the investigation,” Dujarric said, adding that the investigators had described member state cooperation as “adequate”.

He said that the investigators had consulted other member states and visited the UNRWA headquarters in Jordan to review information on UNRWA staff and operations, including electronic communications and data on the use of UN vehicles.

Following news of the OIOS report, the EU announced it would resume funding of UNRWA, with payment of €50m immediately to be followed by a further €32m once the investigation was completed and a range of reforms implemented.

The Wall Street Journal reported last week that an assessment by the US national intelligence council, assessed with “low confidence” that a handful of UNRWA staffers had participated in the 7 October attack on southern Israel, in which 1,200 people, mostly civilians, were killed.

The Israeli mission at the UN referred queries about the investigation to the foreign ministry. The foreign minister, Israel Katz, has said that the government would “give them all the materials that prove UNRWA’s involvement in terrorism and their damage to the future of the region”.

Since the initial allegations against 12 UNRWA workers, nine of whom are believed to be still alive, Israel has claimed that a total of 190 UNRWA employees, including teachers, have also been Hamas or Islamic Jihad militants. The Israeli military also said that a tunnel had been found under UNRWA’s headquarters in Gaza and that guns and ammunition had been found in the headquarters building.

The head of UNRWA, Philippe Lazzarini, said the agency “​​did not know what is under its headquarters in Gaza”, which he pointed out had been abandoned since an Israeli order to evacuate in October. He said that in times of relative peace, UNRWA inspected its premises every quarter, and always protested if its neutrality had been violated.

Israel has long called for UNRWA, established in 1949, to be dismantled, but with 30,000 staff, (13,000 in Gaza) it dwarfs every other UN agency, which have a combined total of about 200 employees in Gaza.

“It is a little bit shortsighted to believe that UNRWA can just technically hand over all its activities to other UN agencies or NGOs,” Lazzarini told journalists in Jerusalem on Thursday.

“It’s an agency [that’s] quite unique because we are … primarily providing government-like services to one of the most destitute communities in the region,” he said.

“The World Food Programme itself has said that it cannot stave off starvation which is already impacting hundreds of thousands of people,” Christopher Gunness, a former UNRWA spokesperson, said. “That can only be done by UNRWA, with its 13,000 workers, its warehouses and its food distribution centres.”

“The OIOS report is a ladder on which all the defunding donors can climb down if they wish to and avoid accusations of complicity in starvation and genocide, as well as bowing to the political agenda of Israel’s far right,” Gunness said.

Parallel to the OIOS inquiry, a broader review of UNRWA’s activities and neutrality is under way, led by a former French foreign minister, Catherine Colonna, and supported by three Nordic research organisations.

The Colonna review was commissioned by Guterres in January, before the Israeli allegations were made. It is expected to provide a progress report in mid-March, which could prompt a resumption of funding from major donors, before the agency runs out of money altogether, diplomats at the UN said. The review group is expected to deliver a final report in mid-April.

This article was amended on 3 March 2024 to remove a reference to Israel’s foreign ministry being located in Tel Aviv.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... vidence-un

[Tichtheid]

Apparently the OIOS report is due to be published very soon. However, at no point in the article is it mentioned that UNRWA were investigating the charge of its members being part of Hamas, it stated very clearly that the investigation is being handled by OIOS.

The separate UNWRA report was about the neutrality of its members, there is an article from AP about that report here

Review of UN agency helping Palestinian refugees found Israel did not express concern about staff
https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... bcbdb587ff#

[Ymx]

From the above in regards to where misleading articles has been made

Q: How would you characterize the Israeli cooperation with you, given that as you may have seen today, the main takeaway from your report is Israel has yet to provide any evidence for its allegations that UNRWA personnel were involved in the October 7th attack. So how would you characterize that cooperation and this main takeaway?

Catherine Colonna: Thank you. I covered everybody when I said that we received very good cooperation from everywhere, including Israel. I could go in details who received us and so on and so forth, but I want to repeat that we had an excellent cooperation from all sides.

Now about one of the quotes—I couldn't read everything this morning—but one of the quotes that have been issued does not respect, I think, the text of the report. We have written – and the beauty of writing reports is that you can refer to what's written—we've written that UNRWA has not received evidence by Israel, not that there is no evidence. It's very different.

So please, again and again, refer to the content of the report and not to what you hear sometimes about it. I would really appreciate if you could base your comments and base your judgments on the content and not on preconceived opinions.

Q: You stated that Israel has given no evidence to UNRWA about their claims that any UNRWA employees took part in October 7th, but did you during your investigation ask Israel for evidence?

Catherine Colonna: Thank you for this opportunity to have me repeating that there must be no confusion between what we've been tasked for, which is assessing whether UNRWA does everything in its power to ensure neutrality and address challenges, etc., and what the OIOS is in charge of. There are two separate missions. So allegations regarding individuals, a difficult case, are in the scope of the OIOS mission. It is not the scope of our mandate.

And by the way, it is no surprise that Israel did not provide evidence to UNRWA because it doesn't owe this evidence during the investigation to UNRWA, but to the OIOS.

And my understanding is that they have a better cooperation now than at the beginning, and that the team will, their investigators will return there soon. So this is a separate, separate mission.

[Ymx]

Such as this one

Israel has still not provided any information supporting it's assertion that UNRWA employees were Hamas operatives.

We can probably put that down as another lie from them, then.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148821

“Israel made public claims that a significant number of UNRWA employees are members of terrorist organisations. However, Israel has yet to provide supporting evidence of this,” according to the 54-page final report, Independent review of mechanisms and procedures to ensure adherence by UNRWA to the humanitarian principle of neutrality.

The UN Secretary-General, who received the final report at the weekend, had appointed the independent review group days after Israel announced the allegations against UNRWA, which employees 30,000 people and serves 5.9 million Palestine refugees in the West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and war-torn Gaza.

The much-awaited final report found that UNRWA, established by the General Assembly in 1949, has extensive tools in place to ensure it remains unbiased in its work and routinely provides Israel with employee lists and “the Israeli Government has not informed UNRWA of any concerns relating to any UNRWA staff based on these staff lists since 2011.”

[Guy Smiley]

[C69]

Well that was amusing

[geordie_6]

This sort of shit doesn't help anyone...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpiece ... 8i6WEO99hF

[Tilly Orifice]

This sort of shit doesn't help anyone...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpiece ... 8i6WEO99hF

Just SOP in Hebron.

[Ymx]

This sort of shit doesn't help anyone...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpiece ... 8i6WEO99hF

No, it’s ugly, that’s the kind of shit that perpetuates hate.

[Ymx]

Those terrorist supporters are getting bolder/nastier.

[MungoMan]

Those terrorist supporters are getting bolder/nastier.

Here's the deal, bozo: who 'Niyak Ghorbanii' is, I neither kno nor care. Ditto the self-regarding bullshit opinions.

And as for you; if the UK is getting too nasty, piss off to somewhere safe.

[Ymx]

Those terrorist supporters are getting bolder/nastier.

Here's the deal, bozo: who 'Niyak Ghorbanii' is, I neither kno nor care. Ditto the self-regarding bullshit opinions.

And as for you; if the UK is getting too nasty, piss off to somewhere safe.

Well if you don’t care so much who he is, don’t bother commenting.

Feel free to fvck off back to PR. Bye

[C69]

Those terrorist supporters are getting bolder/nastier.

Here's the deal, bozo: who 'Niyak Ghorbanii' is, I neither kno nor care. Ditto the self-regarding bullshit opinions.

And as for you; if the UK is getting too nasty, piss off to somewhere safe.

Well if you don’t care so much who he is, don’t bother commenting.

Feel free to fvck off back to PR. Bye

How do we know the man in the pic supports HAMAS?

[Ymx]

Our Iranian friend holds up his Hamas Terrorists sign, and this Islamist clearly doesn’t like it to the extent he makes quite serious threats.

This is not rocket science

[C69]

Our Iranian friend holds up his Hamas Terrorists sign, and this Islamist clearly doesn’t like it to the extent he makes quite serious threats.

This is not rocket science

The guy in the front of the pic?

[Ymx]

Niyak is an Iranian who every week holds up his sign “Hamas is Terrorist”. Yet every week there are Islamists who get upset about it.

The guy in the pic was one such Islamist who then started making nasty threats to Niyak.

[C69]

Niyak is an Iranian who every week holds up his sign “Hamas is Terrorist”. Yet every week there are Islamists who get upset about it.

The guy in the pic was one such Islamist who then started making nasty threats to Niyak.

How do you know the guy in the pic is an Islamist or HAMAS supporter?

[Ymx]

Oh. You’re doing the dumb thing again.

[Tichtheid]

Maybe, just maybe there is a little bit of light getting through

Is there about to be a breakthrough in the Gaza ceasefire talks?
Why there appears to be greater optimism about the prospect of a truce and what could an agreement look like

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... fire-talks

[C69]

Oh. You’re doing the dumb thing again.

There is no evidence from that picture that he supports HAMAS.
Prove me wrong or stfu.

[epwc]

Oh. You’re doing the dumb thing again.

There is no evidence from that picture that he supports HAMAS.
Prove me wrong or stfu.

You say that but he sure as fuck looks to me like he’s a Hamas supporter. I can understand why you and ymx don’t get on, I mean it’s obvious innit?

[MungoMan]

Those terrorist supporters are getting bolder/nastier.

Here's the deal, bozo: who 'Niyak Ghorbanii' is, I neither kno nor care. Ditto the self-regarding bullshit opinions.

And as for you; if the UK is getting too nasty, piss off to somewhere safe.

Well if you don’t care so much who he is, don’t bother commenting.

Feel free to fvck off back to PR. Bye

Yeah nah, you’ve talked me into sticking around.

[Tilly Orifice]

Here's the deal, bozo: who 'Niyak Ghorbanii' is, I neither kno nor care. Ditto the self-regarding bullshit opinions.

And as for you; if the UK is getting too nasty, piss off to somewhere safe.

Well if you don’t care so much who he is, don’t bother commenting.

Feel free to fvck off back to PR. Bye

Yeah nah, you’ve talked me into sticking around.

You and I should saunter through the premises, prodding things with our canes, and making uncomplimentary comments sotto voce.

[epwc]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... department