Kicking off in Israel

[Hugo]

Senior Republican lawmakers in the US say withholding US weapons shipments to Israel increases the danger to civilians in Rafah, and will encourage an Israeli operation in the city.

At an ongoing news conference on Capitol Hill, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham - a vocal critic of Joe Biden - says he is "pleading" with the president to "change course".

"What I fear is that that this decision to withhold weapons has made the likelihood of going into Rafah greater, not less," he says. "It's going to make it longer, not shorter."

Additionally, Graham argues that withholding weapons to Israel will send a message to other US partners - particularly Saudi Arabia - that Washington is an unreliable ally.

"The consequences of this decision, Mr President, are going to change the region and the world for all the worst," Graham adds.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-689 ... n=BBCS_BBC

To add - what do the people of South Carolina actually get (tangibly) for voting this guy in, term after term? Seems he just shills for war 24/7.

[Calculon]

Also, Im not sure horseshoe theory has much merit. There are going to be times that right wingers and left wingers agree on things and don't conform to the centrist consensus.

A right winger might oppose funding or supporting a war based on a desire to trim govt spending. A lefty might oppose the same thing but on the grounds that they reflexively oppose military intervention.

Different reasons, both valid.

Yeah but many left wingers oppose government spending on military aid because they think the funds that could be used to solve domestic problems, which is actually the same view as MAGA. Specifically regarding DACs nonsense comment on Ukraine, that 2014 Euromaidan protest movement was a western (US) backed coup, that’s exactly mirrored by those on the left, which you seem to agree with. There’s pretty clear ideological alignment between the left and right when it comes to Ukraine.

Maybe less so when it comes to the war in Gaza but both MAGA and many on the pro-Palestinian side have anti-Semitic views that are informed by the same conspiracy theories.

Also, you just have to read the regular insults of "warmonger" from MAGA as well as those on the left to see the ideological alignment. Anyway this is an article from a leftist pov for supporting Ukraine.

https://theconversation.com/the-war-in- ... eft-185564

[Calculon]

I didn’t mention the left in the UK with regards to antisemitism.

I suspect your reasons for supporting Israel are similar to mine but you are also have some “interesting” views on covid vaccines, Ukraine supplying weapons to Hamas and likely other things which I think are nonsense and not worth engaging you on. So have a nice day.

I don't support Israel, I'm just aware of what Hamas are and that they should be removed.

I didn't say that Ukraine supplied weapons to Hamas, there is no doubt that munitions have gone missing from Ukrainian stores and ended up on the black market.

My views on the CV was that it's none of my business if you have one, as it's none of yours if I don't have one.

Run along, the only way you could cope would be with personal insults anyway.

You've boasted about never taking the vaccine and derided those who have. You wrote about it being obvious that Hamas was using munitions from Ukraine because there's corruption in Ukraine

[Guy Smiley]

How to win friends and influence people...

[David in Gwent]

I didn’t mention the left in the UK with regards to antisemitism.

I suspect your reasons for supporting Israel are similar to mine but you are also have some “interesting” views on covid vaccines, Ukraine supplying weapons to Hamas and likely other things which I think are nonsense and not worth engaging you on. So have a nice day.

I don't support Israel, I'm just aware of what Hamas are and that they should be removed.

I didn't say that Ukraine supplied weapons to Hamas, there is no doubt that munitions have gone missing from Ukrainian stores and ended up on the black market.

My views on the CV was that it's none of my business if you have one, as it's none of yours if I don't have one.

Run along, the only way you could cope would be with personal insults anyway.

You've boasted about never taking the vaccine and derided those who have. You wrote about it being obvious that Hamas was using munitions from Ukraine because there's corruption in Ukraine

Wait,, you don't think there is corruption in Ukraine?

LOL.

[Calculon]

The language used by the Left is pretty insane.

By simply labelling 10s of millions of Americans who simply want a safe and productive America with a slur like "MAGA" tells us all we need to know.

That being you're probably a privileged Socialist Commie Twat and you look down on people.

Ah, thanks. That's nicer than anything Slick or Sefton have ever called me. I detest MAGA and even more so the politicians who represent them. Everyone from true believers like MTG to the smart ones who are promoting it because of their personal ambitions like JD Vance.

Anyway, looks like Israel has a chance to win Eurovision which would be fun
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu ... r-BB1mclL2

[David in Gwent]

I didn’t mention the left in the UK with regards to antisemitism.

I suspect your reasons for supporting Israel are similar to mine but you are also have some “interesting” views on covid vaccines, Ukraine supplying weapons to Hamas and likely other things which I think are nonsense and not worth engaging you on. So have a nice day.

I don't support Israel, I'm just aware of what Hamas are and that they should be removed.

I didn't say that Ukraine supplied weapons to Hamas, there is no doubt that munitions have gone missing from Ukrainian stores and ended up on the black market.

My views on the CV was that it's none of my business if you have one, as it's none of yours if I don't have one.

Run along, the only way you could cope would be with personal insults anyway.

You've boasted about never taking the vaccine and derided those who have. You wrote about it being obvious that Hamas was using munitions from Ukraine because there's corruption in Ukraine

Have you looed into October 7th, have you any idea what munitions were used taking out the Comms sites, the 30 plus armoured vehicles, including fucking tanks?

[David in Gwent]

The language used by the Left is pretty insane.

By simply labelling 10s of millions of Americans who simply want a safe and productive America with a slur like "MAGA" tells us all we need to know.

That being you're probably a privileged Socialist Commie Twat and you look down on people.

Ah, thanks. That's nicer than anything Slick or Sefton have ever called me. I detest MAGA and even more so the politicians who represent them. Everyone from true believers like MTG to the smart ones who are promoting it because of their personal ambitions like JD Vance.

Anyway, looks like Israel has a chance to win Eurovision which would be fun
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu ... r-BB1mclL2

Did you see the hundreds of people like you surrounding the Israeli singers hotel last week in Malmo? The very essence of how the left operates. Terrifying.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... luded.html

[C69]

How strange

[Calculon]

I don't support Israel, I'm just aware of what Hamas are and that they should be removed.

I didn't say that Ukraine supplied weapons to Hamas, there is no doubt that munitions have gone missing from Ukrainian stores and ended up on the black market.

My views on the CV was that it's none of my business if you have one, as it's none of yours if I don't have one.

Run along, the only way you could cope would be with personal insults anyway.

You've boasted about never taking the vaccine and derided those who have. You wrote about it being obvious that Hamas was using munitions from Ukraine because there's corruption in Ukraine

Wait,, you don't think there is corruption in Ukraine?

LOL.

Wait, your "evidence" that Hamas used anti tank weapons from Ukraine on October 7th is that there is corruption in Ukraine ?


I'm sure it has nothing to do with the loons you support and are promoting this

Some social media users and Russian officials are saying Hamas militants are using weapons supplied by Kyiv

"The weapons handed over to the regime in Ukraine are being actively used in Israel," said Dmitry Medvedev, the former Russian President and Vladimir Putin's close ally on his official Telegram account.

US Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor-Green, known for spreading conspiracy theories, also echoed this accusation on the social media platform X

.

[Calculon]

I don't support Israel, I'm just aware of what Hamas are and that they should be removed.

I didn't say that Ukraine supplied weapons to Hamas, there is no doubt that munitions have gone missing from Ukrainian stores and ended up on the black market.

My views on the CV was that it's none of my business if you have one, as it's none of yours if I don't have one.

Run along, the only way you could cope would be with personal insults anyway.

You've boasted about never taking the vaccine and derided those who have. You wrote about it being obvious that Hamas was using munitions from Ukraine because there's corruption in Ukraine

Have you looed into October 7th, have you any idea what munitions were used taking out the Comms sites, the 30 plus armoured vehicles, including fucking tanks?

I see, no evidence needed, it must have come from Ukraine.

[Calculon]

The language used by the Left is pretty insane.

By simply labelling 10s of millions of Americans who simply want a safe and productive America with a slur like "MAGA" tells us all we need to know.

That being you're probably a privileged Socialist Commie Twat and you look down on people.

Ah, thanks. That's nicer than anything Slick or Sefton have ever called me. I detest MAGA and even more so the politicians who represent them. Everyone from true believers like MTG to the smart ones who are promoting it because of their personal ambitions like JD Vance.

Anyway, looks like Israel has a chance to win Eurovision which would be fun
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu ... r-BB1mclL2

Did you see the hundreds of people like you surrounding the Israeli singers hotel last week in Malmo? The very essence of how the left operates. Terrifying.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... luded.html

They are certainly people like me, proud Palestinian flag waving commie lefties

[Biffer]

Someone needs to go and have along lie down in a darkened room.

[Slick]

The language used by the Left is pretty insane.

By simply labelling 10s of millions of Americans who simply want a safe and productive America with a slur like "MAGA" tells us all we need to know.

That being you're probably a privileged Socialist Commie Twat and you look down on people.

Ah, thanks. That's nicer than anything Slick or Sefton have ever called me. I detest MAGA and even more so the politicians who represent them. Everyone from true believers like MTG to the smart ones who are promoting it because of their personal ambitions like JD Vance.

Anyway, looks like Israel has a chance to win Eurovision which would be fun
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu ... r-BB1mclL2

Have I called you bad names?

[sefton]

So with Gaza falling into famines now have Israeli extremists attacking and destroying famine relief and the Israeli state almost standing to one side.

[Enzedder]

A bit cheeky putting this onto the Israel thread but hearing that the Iranian president is now confirmed as dead from the helicopter crash earlier today.

CNN confirming - and saying that the Bell 212 dated pre-revolution (older than Guy S)
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live ... index.html

[Guy Smiley]

Can't be, I remember the Revolution

[Glaston]

Any one who thinks the Ukrainians shipped weapons to Hamas is a complete and utter dribbling moron.

[Jim Lahey]

A bit cheeky putting this onto the Israel thread but hearing that the Iranian president is now confirmed as dead from the helicopter crash earlier today.

CNN confirming - and saying that the Bell 212 dated pre-revolution (older than Guy S)
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live ... index.html

Any indication of foul play? Or more importantly, Iran claiming there was foul play?

[Slick]

A bit cheeky putting this onto the Israel thread but hearing that the Iranian president is now confirmed as dead from the helicopter crash earlier today.

CNN confirming - and saying that the Bell 212 dated pre-revolution (older than Guy S)
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live ... index.html

Any indication of foul play? Or more importantly, Iran claiming there was foul play?

No indication as yet. They have a fairly appalling flight safety record and most of the aircraft are very old and patched up.

The scariest flight I’ve ever had was between Tehran and Shiraz a few years back. As we walked to the plane the flight crew were standing outside having a fag, all in different uniforms, all Russian and stinking of booze. We got into the cabin from the back up some rickety stairs and you had to fold the seats down to sit in them. Flight itself was terrifying and every time it turned it felt like it was going to flip over

[tabascoboy]

A French newsreader is said to have identified the pilot of Raisi's chopper as Eli Kopter.
He did not.
"Le pilote de l'helicopter", due to elision, does sound like "le pilote, Eli Copter", but what was said was the former, "the helicopter pilot", not "the pilot, Eli Copter"
Voila

[Calculon]

hopefully the other one follows soon

[C69]

Bibi and Hamas's leader in Gaza have both had arrest warrants issued by the chief prosecutor of the ICC.
Criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

[tabascoboy]

Bibi and Hamas's leader in Gaza have both had arrest warrants issued by the chief prosecutor of the ICC.
Criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Seeking arrest warrants as yet, I believe - not issued. The one for the Israelis:



and Hamas

[C69]

Bibi and Hamas's leader in Gaza have both had arrest warrants issued by the chief prosecutor of the ICC.
Criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Seeking arrest warrants as yet, I believe - not issued. The one for the Israelis:

I suspect the Yanks will be a bit miffed

[tabascoboy]

Bibi and Hamas's leader in Gaza have both had arrest warrants issued by the chief prosecutor of the ICC.
Criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Seeking arrest warrants as yet, I believe - not issued. The one for the Israelis:

I suspect the Yanks will be about miffed

There will be a ton of outrage generated on both sides...

[I like neeps]

Seeking arrest warrants as yet, I believe - not issued. The one for the Israelis:

I suspect the Yanks will be about miffed

There will be a ton of outrage generated on both sides...

I don't think many people will be too upset Hamas leaders are accused against crimes against humanity...

Maybe Qatar? Considering that's where they live.

[epwc]

There is fuck all chance of any Israeli politician being indicted or sentenced. Hamas? Maybe, if they don't get assassinated beforehand.

[robmatic]

I suspect the Yanks will be about miffed

There will be a ton of outrage generated on both sides...

I don't think many people will be too upset Hamas leaders are accused against crimes against humanity...

Maybe Qatar? Considering that's where they live.

Erdoğan and AKP are big fans of the freedom fighters.

[Biffer]

Right move from the ICC prosecutor imo. Both sides guilty of some dreadful shit.

[petej]

Right move from the ICC prosecutor imo. Both sides guilty of some dreadful shit.

Totally agree. A plague on their own people.

[tabascoboy]

Right move from the ICC prosecutor imo. Both sides guilty of some dreadful shit.

Wondering how long before someone like Braverman starts demanding we withdraw the UKs signature from the ICC...

[westport]

A bit cheeky putting this onto the Israel thread but hearing that the Iranian president is now confirmed as dead from the helicopter crash earlier today.

CNN confirming - and saying that the Bell 212 dated pre-revolution (older than Guy S)
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live ... index.html

Any indication of foul play? Or more importantly, Iran claiming there was foul play?

Goodness knows but Iran gone Mullah-Lite

[Flockwitt]

[Tichtheid]

Individual members of Israel’s security forces are tipping off far-right activists and settlers to the location of aid trucks delivering vital supplies to Gaza, enabling the groups to block and vandalise the convoys, according to multiple sources.

Settlers intercepting the vital humanitarian supplies to the strip are receiving information about the location of the aid trucks from members of the Israeli police and military, a spokesperson from the main Israeli activist group behind the blockades told the Guardian

(I haven’t read the article yet, I’m on a fly by)


https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... aid-trucks

[Uncle fester]

Individual members of Israel’s security forces are tipping off far-right activists and settlers to the location of aid trucks delivering vital supplies to Gaza, enabling the groups to block and vandalise the convoys, according to multiple sources.

Settlers intercepting the vital humanitarian supplies to the strip are receiving information about the location of the aid trucks from members of the Israeli police and military, a spokesperson from the main Israeli activist group behind the blockades told the Guardian

(I haven’t read the article yet, I’m on a fly by)


https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... aid-trucks

Not remotely surprised. Israel the state might still be pretending that it isn't trying to "clear" the Palestinians off the land but the actions on the ground show that the people with the weapons are doing exactly that.

[Calculon]

Individual members of Israel’s security forces are tipping off far-right activists and settlers to the location of aid trucks delivering vital supplies to Gaza, enabling the groups to block and vandalise the convoys, according to multiple sources.

Settlers intercepting the vital humanitarian supplies to the strip are receiving information about the location of the aid trucks from members of the Israeli police and military, a spokesperson from the main Israeli activist group behind the blockades told the Guardian

(I haven’t read the article yet, I’m on a fly by)


https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... aid-trucks

Not remotely surprised. Israel the state might still be pretending that it isn't trying to "clear" the Palestinians off the land but the actions on the ground show that the people with the weapons are doing exactly that.

To paraphrase someone else…Israel has not held territory, it has cleared ground that has returned to Hamas, its dithered with regards to Rafah, it’s already demobilised a lot of its forces and it’s made no preparation, or indicated that is has a desire for occupying Gaza. Clearing the Palestinians from Gaza would indicate that Israel has some clear strategic goals, which alarmingly they don’t seem to have

[C69]

Individual members of Israel’s security forces are tipping off far-right activists and settlers to the location of aid trucks delivering vital supplies to Gaza, enabling the groups to block and vandalise the convoys, according to multiple sources.

Settlers intercepting the vital humanitarian supplies to the strip are receiving information about the location of the aid trucks from members of the Israeli police and military, a spokesperson from the main Israeli activist group behind the blockades told the Guardian

(I haven’t read the article yet, I’m on a fly by)


https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... aid-trucks

Not remotely surprised. Israel the state might still be pretending that it isn't trying to "clear" the Palestinians off the land but the actions on the ground show that the people with the weapons are doing exactly that.

To paraphrase someone else…Israel has not held territory, it has cleared ground that has returned to Hamas, its dithered with regards to Rafah, it’s already demobilised a lot of its forces and it’s made no preparation, or indicated that is has a desire for occupying Gaza. Clearing the Palestinians from Gaza would indicate that Israel has some clear strategic goals, which alarmingly they don’t seem to have

Kill maim and more importantly punish and seek vengeance.
Revenge and punishment are clearly a goal.

Can't really blame them going all Old Testament with Bibi in control.

[Calculon]

Not remotely surprised. Israel the state might still be pretending that it isn't trying to "clear" the Palestinians off the land but the actions on the ground show that the people with the weapons are doing exactly that.

To paraphrase someone else…Israel has not held territory, it has cleared ground that has returned to Hamas, its dithered with regards to Rafah, it’s already demobilised a lot of its forces and it’s made no preparation, or indicated that is has a desire for occupying Gaza. Clearing the Palestinians from Gaza would indicate that Israel has some clear strategic goals, which alarmingly they don’t seem to have

Kill maim and more importantly punish and seek vengeance.
Revenge and punishment are clearly a goal.

Can't really blame them going all Old Testament with Bibi in control.

what has that to do with their lack of a clear strategy, or did you reply in error to my post?

[C69]

To paraphrase someone else…Israel has not held territory, it has cleared ground that has returned to Hamas, its dithered with regards to Rafah, it’s already demobilised a lot of its forces and it’s made no preparation, or indicated that is has a desire for occupying Gaza. Clearing the Palestinians from Gaza would indicate that Israel has some clear strategic goals, which alarmingly they don’t seem to have

Kill maim and more importantly punish and seek vengeance.
Revenge and punishment are clearly a goal.

Can't really blame them going all Old Testament with Bibi in control.

what has that to do with their lack of a clear strategy, or did you reply in error to my post?

No it's quite obvious from my use of the word goal I was pointing out what their errr goal was.