Official Paris Olympics 2024 thread

[Big D]

Some quality jumpy spinny stuff by the competitors in the trampolining.

[Big D]

Gold for GB as Page competes her Olympic medal set.

Chinese competitor nearly got a sore one at the end there. Glad she was ok. She didn't settle and nearly missed the trampoline netting.

[Calculon]

In any other scenario, a boxer who quits at the start of the fight after a regulation punch from an opponent not known for their power would be viewed with incredible suspicion, and yet here we are. Have people seen the "fight"? It's astonishing.

You're not wrong here, JM. I watched it later and the Italian bird quit faster than Paula Radcliff when the going got a little warm. Full Italian WWII-surrender mode.
It wasn't a battering at all.

The other fighter looks rather blokey vs the cuter Italian and the media have gone to town as usual.

The fact that she's a non white north African who looks masculine by certain western standards is clearly a big part of it, sadly.

I don't want to believe that Carini did this on purpose. Charitably you could say that maybe she was a mess before the fight and quit because she knew she wasn't in any position to compete against a serious opponent. However, the circumstances of the fight itself, the weird behaviour afterwards, the claims of a broken nose despite looking picture perfect after the fight, and her coach saying people were telling her before the fight not to do it because Khelif is a man and it's dangerous... I can't help but be deeply suspicious of all of this. I hope I'm wrong

come on, she looks masculine by any standard.



I'm pretty sure most "non white" North Africans would think she looks masculine

anyways, fair enough about the IBA, they're clearly dodgy as fuck.
She will probably have to undertake some gender tests after this Olympics to coninue boxing and maybe she will turn out to be 100% legit.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

She was born a woman and grew up a woman and identifies as a woman because she is one. This is not a self ID thing. She is not trans. There isn't even any evidence she's intersex.

Do we know that? Or is it just that the evidence isn't in the public domain? Certainly the Italian fighter seemed to think there was something dodgy (she shouted "it's not right") - though she might not be the most objective witness, to be fair.

I wonder if the IOC might have unwittingly left themselves open to legal action here. Pure speculation, but I would imagine that boxers have an understanding (or signed waiver?) that they allow themselves to be assaulted by their opponents (by legal definition), but does that understanding extend to a female being assaulted by someone who is genetically male? If the two boxers in question are indeed 46XY, then it could be argued that the IOC have been negligent in allowing this situation that the IBA has already dealt with. This is not athletics, it's well known that boxing can cause serious trauma, so allowing genetic males to fight females could represent a significant risk that the IOC did not plan for.

And yes, this is viewing gender as 100% binary (I'm sure some will remind me that's not the case), but I'm talking about the potential for legal action. Caster Semenya's case highlights that the courts are more likely to have a definitive view.

Is there any evidence that you're not (insert criminality or perversion of your choice here) that's just not in the public domain?

See how easy that is?

The only organisation that's actually accused her is a Russian led, discredited and corrupt one that isn't clear on what she's failed and in their minutes say the decision was taken by the CEO rather than a testing body.

If you want a reasonable view on it, it's worth spending the time to Find Steve Bunce on Radio five this morning, think it was just before seven am.

Well I've been PVG and background checked multiple times for various work & voluntary roles, so yes there is evidence - in counter to your straw man. But that's entirely beside the point.

I have no idea if there's any reason for these 2 boxers to be under any kind of suspicion, the only people who do are the IBA and they haven't said why. Perhaps the IOC might have seen this coming though and headed off the controversy by clarifying the situation.

I really hope nothing comes of this, or it could get really messy for the IOC.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Anyway, back to the sport. Fair fucks to the Croatian pair - over a length down going into the last quarter and overhauled the Romanians and the Brits to win by a few cm. Incredible sprint.

[Big D]

Gold for the show jumping.

[TB63]

Ouch! Really bad wrist injury in the women's beach volleyball...







Hopefully I'll be ok tomorrow.....

[Sandstorm]

Ouch! Really bad wrist injury in the women's beach volleyball...







Hopefully I'll be ok tomorrow.....

[yermum]

Do we know that? Or is it just that the evidence isn't in the public domain? Certainly the Italian fighter seemed to think there was something dodgy (she shouted "it's not right") - though she might not be the most objective witness, to be fair.

I wonder if the IOC might have unwittingly left themselves open to legal action here. Pure speculation, but I would imagine that boxers have an understanding (or signed waiver?) that they allow themselves to be assaulted by their opponents (by legal definition), but does that understanding extend to a female being assaulted by someone who is genetically male? If the two boxers in question are indeed 46XY, then it could be argued that the IOC have been negligent in allowing this situation that the IBA has already dealt with. This is not athletics, it's well known that boxing can cause serious trauma, so allowing genetic males to fight females could represent a significant risk that the IOC did not plan for.

And yes, this is viewing gender as 100% binary (I'm sure some will remind me that's not the case), but I'm talking about the potential for legal action. Caster Semenya's case highlights that the courts are more likely to have a definitive view.

Is there any evidence that you're not (insert criminality or perversion of your choice here) that's just not in the public domain?

See how easy that is?

The only organisation that's actually accused her is a Russian led, discredited and corrupt one that isn't clear on what she's failed and in their minutes say the decision was taken by the CEO rather than a testing body.

If you want a reasonable view on it, it's worth spending the time to Find Steve Bunce on Radio five this morning, think it was just before seven am.

Well I've been PVG and background checked multiple times for various work & voluntary roles, so yes there is evidence - in counter to your straw man. But that's entirely beside the point.

I have no idea if there's any reason for these 2 boxers to be under any kind of suspicion, the only people who do are the IBA and they haven't said why. Perhaps the IOC might have seen this coming though and headed off the controversy by clarifying the situation.

I really hope nothing comes of this, or it could get really messy for the IOC.

The IBA are corrupt as fuck the president of the IBA Umar Kremlev (changed his name from Umar Lutfuloev, due to criminal convicitions) is mates with Putin and moved most of the IBA headquarters to Russia from Lausanne he was a member of the wolves of the night biker gang. The IBA is sponsored by Gazprom (its sole sponsor) Banned Ukraines team for reasons.
The ban was handed out by Kremlev and not a scintilla of evidence has been made public about the supposed tests that were carried out. she was conveniently disqualified when she reached the gold medal bout of the 2023 IBA finals.

When Khelif lost to Kellie Harrington in Tokyo no-one accused her of being a man.

[C69]

Teddy Riner is a fucking legend.
Met the late Elvis Gordon a few times, always had time to people and was larger than life in every way.

[Slick]

Beth S in the BMX is utterly brilliant, completely dominant

[sefton]

Beth S in the BMX is utterly brilliant, completely dominant

1,2 and 3 for the French men.

[JM2K6]

You're not wrong here, JM. I watched it later and the Italian bird quit faster than Paula Radcliff when the going got a little warm. Full Italian WWII-surrender mode.
It wasn't a battering at all.

The other fighter looks rather blokey vs the cuter Italian and the media have gone to town as usual.

The fact that she's a non white north African who looks masculine by certain western standards is clearly a big part of it, sadly.

I don't want to believe that Carini did this on purpose. Charitably you could say that maybe she was a mess before the fight and quit because she knew she wasn't in any position to compete against a serious opponent. However, the circumstances of the fight itself, the weird behaviour afterwards, the claims of a broken nose despite looking picture perfect after the fight, and her coach saying people were telling her before the fight not to do it because Khelif is a man and it's dangerous... I can't help but be deeply suspicious of all of this. I hope I'm wrong

come on, she looks masculine by any standard.



I'm pretty sure most "non white" North Africans would think she looks masculine

anyways, fair enough about the IBA, they're clearly dodgy as fuck.
She will probably have to undertake some gender tests after this Olympics to coninue boxing and maybe she will turn out to be 100% legit.

She looks like half the women who compete in combat or contact sports at a decent level.


Anyway, I found this reddit post to be a very clear summation of the facts as I understand them:

In the interest of spreading… actual information, I’m copying my comment from another thread, because this is infuriating.

The short(ish) version is that she's a cis woman who been competing for years against other women, and there was no issue, including at the 2020 Olympics. Never any question of her gender or testosterone levels, no articles, no headlines, no commentary from her opponents, nothing. She doesn't even have a particularly stellar record, though she's been improving in recent years.

She was even tested at the 2022 World Championships and they didn't find any problems. She took the silver medal without incident.

Up until the 2023 World Championships - **when she beat a Russian boxer.**

Quick backstory on the IBA, the boxing organization that tested her and oversees the Boxing World Championships: it's been in contention with the IOC for years for issues of corruption and concerns over refereeing and judging, but things have gotten worse over the past few years. The IOC was concerned about the IBA's complete financial dependence on their sponsor: Russian-owned Gazprom. The IBA also elected a corrupt Russian president in 2020, and in 2022 they (wrongly) declared his re-election opponent ineligible, so he won an uncontested re-election. Multiple countries including the US and UK boycotted the 2023 World Championships because the IBA suspended Ukraine and un-suspended Russia and Belarus in 2022, against IOC guidelines. All of this ultimately resulted in the IOC severing ties with the IBA, which hasn't happened with any sport in decades. They fucked up so bad that the IOC may drop boxing altogether; another organization has risen up and is attempting to replace the IBA in order to save boxing at the Olympics.

Anyway. Imane Khelif competes in the World Championships in 2022, undergoes testing, no eligibility issues, takes the silver medal. She competes in 2023, no eligibility issues. Gets to the Round of 16, beats a Russian boxer...suddenly, she gets tested again and based on the results of that test AND her test from 2022, they declared her ineligible.

The IBA never said what kind of test it was, just that it wasn't a testosterone test, nor did they explain the results, citing privacy. In an interview with Russian state-owned media, the Russian president of the IBA said that they did a DNA test and found that Khelif had XY chromosomes, but again...look at the source, the audience, the track record of corruption, the timing...

Plus, they did this test in 2022 and didn't have any issue with the results? They used the 2022 test as part of their basis for disqualifying her - even though they allowed her to compete in 2023, up until she beat a Russian athlete.

So there's no evidence that she has higher testosterone. She competed in the 2020 Olympics without incident, even when other female athletes with high testosterone were withdrawn. And the IBA didn't administer a testosterone test.

There's also no other information, testing, questions, or anything that she has talked about that would allude to any sort of chromosomal or hormonal difference. She identifies as a woman and always has.

People are diagnosing her with all kinds of conditions but there’s actually no evidence for any of it aside from one vague test that an extremely corrupt organization associated with Russia subjected her to when she beat a Russian athlete, the results of which were only discussed by the Russian president of the corrupt organization when he talked to Russian media.

The sheer scale of the breathless accusations of her being a man, the stating of the existence of testes or her being XY / DSD, going through male puberty etc etc a as hard fact without any actual evidence is genuinely upsetting. I expect this sort of shit from JK Rowling, Logan Paul, and other poison brained idiots, but seeing the guardian's lead sports writer join in (and that prick Ewan McKenna) has actually gotten to me a little bit.

Khalif is a role UNICEF role model for young girls, a good boxer who has fought her entire life as a woman to be able to follow her dreams of being a boxer in a country that has some very regressive views on women.It is inevitable that successful women who look butch - of which there are so, so many in sports - would suffer as a result of the witch hunt whipped up against trans people. Now it doesn't matter if you're trans, you just need to look "wrong" and the right people can kick off an international shitstorm against you, aided and abetted by obsessive scumbags and helped by useful idiots.

The culture war fucking sucks, and there's no sign it's going to get better any time soon.

[Slick]

Beth S in the BMX is utterly brilliant, completely dominant

1,2 and 3 for the French men.

Bit weird that they have 3 races for the heats and semi but just a single run for the final

[Biffer]

Stuff on social media about Denise Lewis and Jessica Ennis Hill still looking so young and asking what their secret is. Maybe it's spending their young life not drinking and partying and instead dedicating themselves to health, fitness, good diet and training.

[yermum]

Beth S in the BMX is utterly brilliant, completely dominant

Apart from when it mattered unfortunately.

[Guy Smiley]

I really appreciate JM2K's posting on the boxing schemozzle. Informed, articulate and interesting. Cheers mate.

[Calculon]

Stuff on social media about Denise Lewis and Jessica Ennis Hill still looking so young and asking what their secret is. Maybe it's spending their young life not drinking and partying and instead dedicating themselves to health, fitness, good diet and training.

Andy Murray says F U

[Calculon]

@JMK, I agree with most of that, but you could also argue that if there weren't trans and dsd people wanting to or competing in the female category at elite level, or if the IOC had gender tests, this shit storm wouldn't have happened.

[Guy Smiley]

@JMK, I agree with most of that, but you could also argue that if there weren't trans and dsd people wanting to or competing in the female category at elite level, or if the IOC had gender tests, this shit storm wouldn't have happened.

An argument for suspending critical thought to justify joining the pitchforks and burning torches crew?

Take each case on its merits.

[Kiwias]

I really appreciate JM2K's posting on the boxing schemozzle. Informed, articulate and interesting. Cheers mate.

This.

[epwc]

I really appreciate JM2K's posting on the boxing schemozzle. Informed, articulate and interesting. Cheers mate.

This.

Yep

[Calculon]

@JMK, I agree with most of that, but you could also argue that if there weren't trans and dsd people wanting to or competing in the female category at elite level, or if the IOC had gender tests, this shit storm wouldn't have happened.

An argument for suspending critical thought to justify joining the pitchforks and burning torches crew?

Take each case on its merits.

or an argument for easing concerns (even if you dont think they are legitimate) so it doesnt get to the pitchfork stage, rather than just feeling smug and superior

[Slick]

Beth S in the BMX is utterly brilliant, completely dominant

Apart from when it mattered unfortunately.

Yeah. As I said above, strange that they have 3 races in the heats and semis, presumably to try and even out the randomness of a one off race, but the final is a one off race

[Dogbert]

Both GBR eights coming home with medals, Great result from the men's 8 to bring home gold , holding off a strong challenge from the Dutch, with the woman's Bronze after falling to make the final in Tokyo.

Really strong performance this games from GBR rowing, especially after the disappointment in Tokyo.

10 boats , 8 podiums

"Medals won in the winter. Only collected in the Summer"

[Deepsouth]

Australia win the men's tennis Gold. Moves Australia into 2nd place on the medals tally behind China.

Australia having a dream Olympics

[S/Lt_Phillips]

You have to feel for Emma Wilson on the windsurf. Dominant in the prelims stage, winning 8 of 14 races, then it comes down to a sudden death final with no advantage from the earlier rounds.

Like the BMX racing, seems like a sub-optimal (i.e. stupid) format.

The other sailing events aren't done like this (points from the prelims are carried over to the medal race, where points are doubled) so don't know why the windsurfing is.

[Random1]

Aye it is.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36543364/

Oooohhhh, let’s swap individual papers!

https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/63 ... ogin=false

Yeah, my paper’s much better than yours though, and represents the majority viewpoint.

So are we saying that an effeminate gay man with low testosterone is actually more female than a butch woman with higher testosterone.

[Biffer]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36543364/

Oooohhhh, let’s swap individual papers!

https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/63 ... ogin=false

Yeah, my paper’s much better than yours though, and represents the majority viewpoint.

So are we saying that an effeminate gay man with low testosterone is actually more female than a butch woman with higher testosterone.

No. I'm saying trying to define this absolutely in one short statement is an utter nonsense.

[Biffer]

Regardless of that, back to the sport.


Fantastic men's road race, Evanepoel with a dominant performance, first man to ever win the road race and time trial at the same games. And he provides what's likely to be one of the lasting images of the games by dismounting at the finish line and standing with his arms aloft, framed by the Eiffel Tower.

[Random1]

Oooohhhh, let’s swap individual papers!

https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/63 ... ogin=false

Yeah, my paper’s much better than yours though, and represents the majority viewpoint.

So are we saying that an effeminate gay man with low testosterone is actually more female than a butch woman with higher testosterone.

No. I'm saying trying to define this absolutely in one short statement is an utter nonsense.

Ok, so how would you define a sex spectrum?

[weegie01]

Both GBR eights coming home with medals, Great result from the men's 8 to bring home gold , holding off a strong challenge from the Dutch, with the woman's Bronze after falling to make the final in Tokyo.

Really strong performance this games from GBR rowing, especially after the disappointment in Tokyo.

10 boats , 8 podiums

"Medals won in the winter. Only collected in the Summer"

Other two boats 4th I believe. That must sting.

[Biffer]

Yeah, my paper’s much better than yours though, and represents the majority viewpoint.

So are we saying that an effeminate gay man with low testosterone is actually more female than a butch woman with higher testosterone.

No. I'm saying trying to define this absolutely in one short statement is an utter nonsense.

Ok, so how would you define a sex spectrum?

I'm not going down this line. Any definition that fits on here is going to be too simplistic, and you're the kind of poster who will immediately take a statement and twist it to its extreme,rejecting any nuance.

So, get fucked.

[GuLi]

I'm not going down this line. Any definition that fits on here is going to be too simplistic, and you're the kind of poster who will immediately take a statement and twist it to its extreme,rejecting any nuance.

So, get fucked.

[Slick]

That Khalif is a dirty bint, she got away with an awful lot in that last fight and moaned at the slightlest thing

[Calculon]

she also smacks her opponent in the boob which seems a bit weird

https://x.com/nicholelizaq/status/1819035576559120743

[Sandstorm]

That Khalif is a dirty bint, she got away with an awful lot in that last fight and moaned at the slightlest thing

All she had is a left jab. Shite fighter.

[Slick]

That Khalif is a dirty bint, she got away with an awful lot in that last fight and moaned at the slightlest thing

All she had is a left jab. Shite fighter.

Helps when her arm is twice as long as her opponent

[Uncle fester]

and that prick Ewan McKenna

There's something very wrong with that guy. Some day, we will find out why he's hiding in Brazil.

[petej]

Time lapse on the swimming pool in racing 92s ground for the Olympics.