Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[dpedin]

They're setting the country up for a brutal (and necessary) new Budget. You say you dislike Labour - as a Tory-voting pensioner with a bit of money behind you, you're going to fucking hate them in October.

The wife and I were talking about this earlier today. She is 60, taking on part-time work so she can get her NI stamps so she can get a full pension as she did not work due to kids, etc . I have all mine. I am about to retire (being made redundant actually but have no plans to work after - or at least salaried work). 3 years until I (currently entitled to) get my state pension. We had factored in the state pension to our financial plans. So if we will no longer get some/all of our state pension (as is being discussed), I either have to start thinking about working or we need to reduce our expectations for the future. OK this is middle class issues and there are lots of people struggling, but feeling a bit miffed by it all.

What changes are being discussed beyond the known rise in pension age?

I can't find anything with Google.

None - this is all scaremongering - the state pension is safe and the triple lock is still in place. If Labour do anything on pensions it will be looking at the tax breaks that private pensions get, either at the front end in terms of contributions or at the back end in terms of tax free lump sums. However any moves are likely to only affect a very small number of people given the average size of pension pots etc for the vast majority of people. I also suspect they will do something around using the vast amounts of money tied up in pension funds to stimulate growth , which could be a bit risky. Also there might be increase on tax of dividends and unearned income to bring it into line with taxes of earned income - again a policy I would support, might impact upon pension investments and that will only impact upon a small minority of tax payers at the upper end of the scale. No doubt expect much noise from the right wing press and the Tory Party as they see their cash cows getting hit?

[SaintK]

The wife and I were talking about this earlier today. She is 60, taking on part-time work so she can get her NI stamps so she can get a full pension as she did not work due to kids, etc . I have all mine. I am about to retire (being made redundant actually but have no plans to work after - or at least salaried work). 3 years until I (currently entitled to) get my state pension. We had factored in the state pension to our financial plans. So if we will no longer get some/all of our state pension (as is being discussed), I either have to start thinking about working or we need to reduce our expectations for the future. OK this is middle class issues and there are lots of people struggling, but feeling a bit miffed by it all.

What changes are being discussed beyond the known rise in pension age?

I can't find anything with Google.

None - this is all scaremongering - the state pension is safe and the triple lock is still in place. If Labour do anything on pensions it will be looking at the tax breaks that private pensions get, either at the front end in terms of contributions or at the back end in terms of tax free lump sums. However any moves are likely to only affect a very small number of people given the average size of pension pots etc for the vast majority of people. I also suspect they will do something around using the vast amounts of money tied up in pension funds to stimulate growth , which could be a bit risky. Also there might be increase on tax of dividends and unearned income to bring it into line with taxes of earned income - again a policy I would support, might impact upon pension investments and that will only impact upon a small minority of tax payers at the upper end of the scale. No doubt expect much noise from the right wing press and the Tory Party as they see their cash cows getting hit?

Didn't vball say he read The Telegraph? No wonder he's concerned if he does. I tried to read again it today, the scaremongering and distortion of the truth and reality is mind boggling from front to back.

[Hal Jordan]

The amount of fuss over Rayner doing some drunk mum dancing on her holiday is hilarious. The number column inches by anger wankers that's devoted to it...

[JM2K6]

As far as I can tell, Labour have not actually announced anything to get into a tizz over. From my perspective the absolute worst thing we're seeing is them talking about tough times ahead, sacrifices etc, because we are conditioned to believe that those will mean cuts to public services and the worst of it affecting the most vulnerable. But - and I think this is important - we don't actually know what they are going to do.

Hyperventilating over how they're just as bad as the Tories or that people not immediately condemning the as-yet unknown actions Labour will be taking strikes me as being a tad disingenous.

There's also zero doubt that Labour knew the finances would be bad - they were open and honest about this prior to the election - but they didn't know the scale of it because the scale of it is criminal. Genuinely appalling, an absolute scandal.

[sockwithaticket]

The amount of fuss over Rayner doing some drunk mum dancing on her holiday is hilarious. The number column inches by anger wankers that's devoted to it...

She could be rescuing a puppy from a well and the right wing frothers would find something wrong with it. She's a working class, teenage single mum who's managed to rise to deputy PM via Union leadership. Her existence spits in the face of their sexist, classist world view of the 'proper order' and it's driving them round the bend.

Good for Ange, I hope she keeps raising their blood pressure to perilous levels.

[Uncle fester]

The amount of fuss over Rayner doing some drunk mum dancing on her holiday is hilarious. The number column inches by anger wankers that's devoted to it...

She could be rescuing a puppy from a well and the right wing frothers would find something wrong with it. She's a working class, teenage single mum who's managed to rise to deputy PM via Union leadership. Her existence spits in the face of their sexist, classist world view of the 'proper order' and it's driving them round the bend.

Good for Ange, I hope she keeps raising their blood pressure to perilous levels.

Sums it up well.


And I would.

[sockwithaticket]

The amount of fuss over Rayner doing some drunk mum dancing on her holiday is hilarious. The number column inches by anger wankers that's devoted to it...

She could be rescuing a puppy from a well and the right wing frothers would find something wrong with it. She's a working class, teenage single mum who's managed to rise to deputy PM via Union leadership. Her existence spits in the face of their sexist, classist world view of the 'proper order' and it's driving them round the bend.

Good for Ange, I hope she keeps raising their blood pressure to perilous levels.

Sums it up well.


And I would.

So would many of her detractors I reckon and that's another thing that's driving them mental. Especially as they know she wouldn't even spit on them if they were on fire.

[Biffer]

She could be rescuing a puppy from a well and the right wing frothers would find something wrong with it. She's a working class, teenage single mum who's managed to rise to deputy PM via Union leadership. Her existence spits in the face of their sexist, classist world view of the 'proper order' and it's driving them round the bend.

Good for Ange, I hope she keeps raising their blood pressure to perilous levels.

Sums it up well.


And I would.

So would many of her detractors I reckon and that's another thing that's driving them mental. Especially as they know she wouldn't even spit on them if they were on fire.

And spitting on them is the least of the things they’d want.

[Sandstorm]

The amount of fuss over Rayner doing some drunk mum dancing on her holiday is hilarious. The number column inches by anger wankers that's devoted to it...

She could be rescuing a puppy from a well and the right wing frothers would find something wrong with it. She's a working class, teenage single mum who's managed to rise to deputy PM via Union leadership. Her existence spits in the face of their sexist, classist world view of the 'proper order' and it's driving them round the bend.

Good for Ange, I hope she keeps raising their blood pressure to perilous levels.

Drunk dancing on holiday in a club in Ibiza is fucking expensive, at a time when people are struggling. Should have gone to Aya Napa instead.

[vball]

They're setting the country up for a brutal (and necessary) new Budget. You say you dislike Labour - as a Tory-voting pensioner with a bit of money behind you, you're going to fucking hate them in October.

The wife and I were talking about this earlier today. She is 60, taking on part-time work so she can get her NI stamps so she can get a full pension as she did not work due to kids, etc . I have all mine. I am about to retire (being made redundant actually but have no plans to work after - or at least salaried work). 3 years until I (currently entitled to) get my state pension. We had factored in the state pension to our financial plans. So if we will no longer get some/all of our state pension (as is being discussed), I either have to start thinking about working or we need to reduce our expectations for the future. OK this is middle class issues and there are lots of people struggling, but feeling a bit miffed by it all.

What changes are being discussed beyond the known rise in pension age?

I can't find anything with Google.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/mon ... 20credits.

[I like neeps]

You'll find a lot of that here Paddington. The same behaviours that the Tories were castigated for are waved away as a cost of business for a serious government.

At least Labour aren't so nakedly corrupt and unlikely to be so. But lying, authoritatian, pro-austerity, jobs for the boys and gals... You'll find for excuses for that come readily.

while I take your point, there's surely a difference between engaging in those sorts of behaviours while being a wholly ineffective government over a protracted period of time and engaging in those sorts of behaviours when the effectiveness of the government is uncertain, no?

I think some of it is what makes government ineffective. Granted the Tories conduct was often a disgrace but they didn't start as openly corrupt governments who achieved nothing. It always starts with gradual decay.

[dpedin]

The wife and I were talking about this earlier today. She is 60, taking on part-time work so she can get her NI stamps so she can get a full pension as she did not work due to kids, etc . I have all mine. I am about to retire (being made redundant actually but have no plans to work after - or at least salaried work). 3 years until I (currently entitled to) get my state pension. We had factored in the state pension to our financial plans. So if we will no longer get some/all of our state pension (as is being discussed), I either have to start thinking about working or we need to reduce our expectations for the future. OK this is middle class issues and there are lots of people struggling, but feeling a bit miffed by it all.

What changes are being discussed beyond the known rise in pension age?

I can't find anything with Google.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/mon ... 20credits.

Hardly think this is evidence that the Gov are thinking about getting rid of the pension - this is just some folk flying kites or responding to a question they were asked. I wouldn't worry .... Scaremongering!

[sockwithaticket]

Havent't seen it discussed much in the coverage of the slumlord MP, but it's pretty antithetical for a Labour MP to be a landlord in the first place, let alone hold the largest property portfolio of anyone in parliament. Suppose that's what happens when neo-liberalism infects a supposed labour movement.

[SaintK]

Havent't seen it discussed much in the coverage of the slumlord MP, but it's pretty antithetical for a Labour MP to be a landlord in the first place, let alone hold the largest property portfolio of anyone in parliament. Suppose that's what happens when neo-liberalism infects a supposed labour movement.

Scandalous really, surprised he's not been suspended.
Think you'll find Jeremy Hunt holds the highest property portfolio by value. 7 luxury apartments on the South Coast and a large villa in Italy

[epwc]

Most landlords do not take it seriously, there needs to be more regulation and higher penalties

[petej]

You'll find a lot of that here Paddington. The same behaviours that the Tories were castigated for are waved away as a cost of business for a serious government.

At least Labour aren't so nakedly corrupt and unlikely to be so. But lying, authoritatian, pro-austerity, jobs for the boys and gals... You'll find for excuses for that come readily.

while I take your point, there's surely a difference between engaging in those sorts of behaviours while being a wholly ineffective government over a protracted period of time and engaging in those sorts of behaviours when the effectiveness of the government is uncertain, no?

I think some of it is what makes government ineffective. Granted the Tories conduct was often a disgrace but they didn't start as openly corrupt governments who achieved nothing. It always starts with gradual decay.

It is really hard to judge the actual extent of decay as it is just far harder to hide things these days and we are way less accepting of shitty behaviour in many areas. It becomes simple to see obvious corruption under the likes of Johnson and similar.

Government also becomes ineffective where you layer restrictions on people/civil service due to the bad actions of a few. Just makes everyone ineffective and frustrated. Also if you ask people to do things that are illegal or quite frankly silly/contradictory (see much of Brexit).

[petej]

Most landlords do not take it seriously, there needs to be more regulation and higher penalties

The Labour MP has done the standard thing of outsourcing the responsibility to a third party.

[epwc]

Most landlords do not take it seriously, there needs to be more regulation and higher penalties

The Labour MP has done the standard thing of outsourcing the responsibility to a third party.

Yep, and most management agents are shit, but he MUST have some knowledge of whats going on. Entirely unacceptable.

[C69]

Most landlords do not take it seriously, there needs to be more regulation and higher penalties

The Labour MP has done the standard thing of outsourcing the responsibility to a third party.

Yep, and most management agents are shit, but he MUST have some knowledge of whats going on. Entirely unacceptable.

Suspend the Rachmanist twat from the party

[epwc]

Suspend the Rachmanist twat from the party

100%, no excuse

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Most landlords do not take it seriously, there needs to be more regulation and higher penalties

The Labour MP has done the standard thing of outsourcing the responsibility to a third party.

outsourcing risk is common as mud across many industries and might just be worth looking into. whether it's water, insurance, banking, construction... it's just possible we want people to be responsible and not allow them to take risk free shits upon the rest of society

not that one can look back on halcyon days of white collar crime being treated seriously, certainly not by senior folks

[inactionman]

Water bosses could be jailed if they cover up sewage dumping under new law

CEOs in England and Wales could face two years in prison under proposals to force firms to supply data quickly

I'll believe it when I see it, but it's a step in right direction.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... umping-law

[epwc]

not that one can look back on halcyon days of white collar crime being treated seriously, certainly not by senior folks

This is the only example I can think of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_ ... ding_fraud

And obviously Polly Peck in the same era where Asil Nadir done a runner

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Water bosses could be jailed if they cover up sewage dumping under new law

CEOs in England and Wales could face two years in prison under proposals to force firms to supply data quickly

I'll believe it when I see it, but it's a step in right direction.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... umping-law

And if we go two years per breach and sentences to be served consecutively we'll be getting somewhere.

The mechanism for going after shareholders needs to be in place too

[petej]

Water bosses could be jailed if they cover up sewage dumping under new law

CEOs in England and Wales could face two years in prison under proposals to force firms to supply data quickly

I'll believe it when I see it, but it's a step in right direction.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... umping-law

And if we go two years per breach and sentences to be served consecutively we'll be getting somewhere.

The mechanism for going after shareholders needs to be in place too

Doesn't make any difference if the EA, DEFRA and DWI are weaker than a non-alcoholic beer. The scientists are probably busy being hounded by HR, financial and commercial teams who suck up most of the money leaving some scraps for the actual monitoring.

[fishfoodie]

I'll believe it when I see it, but it's a step in right direction.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... umping-law

And if we go two years per breach and sentences to be served consecutively we'll be getting somewhere.

The mechanism for going after shareholders needs to be in place too

Doesn't make any difference if the EA, DEFRA and DWI are weaker than a non-alcoholic beer. The scientists are probably busy being hounded by HR, financial and commercial teams who suck up most of the money leaving some scraps for the actual monitoring.

Just reverse the principles of the fine; Instead of issuing a fine when a discharge happens, & there was no notification or justification for the discharge, fine the Water Companies for any day at any location where they don't return a clean water sample.

You make them have an interest in monitoring, & having that water sample be clean, & most importantly, if they fake the results, they've committed a fraud, & that's a criminal, not a poxy civil matter !

[fishfoodie]

not that one can look back on halcyon days of white collar crime being treated seriously, certainly not by senior folks

This is the only example I can think of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_ ... ding_fraud

And obviously Polly Peck in the same era where Asil Nadir done a runner

This one sticks in the memory, as it was an absolute dumpster fire for the Tories, & their efforts to throw a few company directors to the Wolves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Report

The TV Movie about the Iraqi Super gun was a bloody good watch too !

[epwc]

This is the reality of Brexit for loads of small businesses:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... g-business

Whatever Labour do to get a better deal will impact these businesses hugely. We’ve done two shipments to Ireland this week at least 30 mins of extra work for each. For a firm with 4 full time staff that’s significant

[petej]

This is the reality of Brexit for loads of small businesses:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... g-business

Whatever Labour do to get a better deal will impact these businesses hugely. We’ve done two shipments to Ireland this week at least 30 mins of extra work for each. For a firm with 4 full time staff that’s significant

Where Labour could benefit the UK economically most they've been gutless.

Fuck brexshit

[dpedin]

This is the reality of Brexit for loads of small businesses:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... g-business

Whatever Labour do to get a better deal will impact these businesses hugely. We’ve done two shipments to Ireland this week at least 30 mins of extra work for each. For a firm with 4 full time staff that’s significant

Where Labour could benefit the UK economically most they've been gutless.

Fuck brexshit

Agree - joining the Single Market with FoM would make a huge economic difference and boost growth no end. However this would bring about huge battle with the right wing nut jobs and probably further riots on the streets again. Perhaps a step too far for first 100 days in power? I suspect the Gov strategy is get all the Tory shit they have inherited onto the table asap and lay the blame at their door, short term focus on what is within the control of the Gov and can be actioned relatively quickly via HoC and over next year or two build better relationships with EU and lay foundations for move to Customs Union then SM later?

Whatever the strategy the blindingly obvious Brexit is shit and curtailing growth is there for all to see!

[Rhubarb & Custard]

the blindingly obvious Brexit is shit and curtailing growth is there for all to see!

Two clear defences present in this, head stuck in sand, head stuck up one's own arse.

[fishfoodie]

UK-CA Gooooooooooooooneeeeeeeee

It was always a fucking idiotic idea, & just loaded a bunch of costs on manufacturers, with zero benefit, & UK consumers were going to suck it up !

It's not the end, but it is an important step towards tearing up any notion of regulatory divergence, which makes re-joining the CU possible, & reducing the costs that incurs possible.

[Paddington Bear]

Media seems to have finally cottoned on to Starmer’s addiction to freebies. Could be a fun five years

[fishfoodie]

Another leading indicator of a major change to reverse Brexit damage to exports; the "Not for EU" requirement is delayed & "under review".

Now this isn't something the UK can do off it's own bat, as the label was to satisfy the EU that goods didn't come across the NI/ROI border without proper paperwork.

The reason this was necessary was that the Tories wanted to slash regulations & quality & wouldn't commit to regulatory alignment with the EU.

Combined with the UK-CA mark biting the dust, I'd say there are negotiations ongoing to commit to aligning with the EU regulations, & standards, with a view to maybe re-entering the customs union, which will be a major help to UK exporters.

[dpedin]

Another leading indicator of a major change to reverse Brexit damage to exports; the "Not for EU" requirement is delayed & "under review".

Now this isn't something the UK can do off it's own bat, as the label was to satisfy the EU that goods didn't come across the NI/ROI border without proper paperwork.

The reason this was necessary was that the Tories wanted to slash regulations & quality & wouldn't commit to regulatory alignment with the EU.

Combined with the UK-CA mark biting the dust, I'd say there are negotiations ongoing to commit to aligning with the EU regulations, & standards, with a view to maybe re-entering the customs union, which will be a major help to UK exporters.

It would be an excellent step forward and help the Gov hit their growth ambitions whilst reducing unnecessary costs and hassle for exporters/importers. Hopefully one step along the way to joining the SM? Good to see common sense and realism overriding blind adherence to some mythical 'sovrinty' free market Nirvana that never existed but kept Herr Farage onside.

[petej]

Media seems to have finally cottoned on to Starmer’s addiction to freebies. Could be a fun five years

He even does freebies in a dull way. Where are the IT lessons with the sexy lap dancer or the Italian trip to russian oligarchs villa while ditching your security detail. Where is the coke fuelled sex binge at chequers with your ex leading to possibly the worst budget this country has ever had.

Not that he shouldn't buy his own clothes like everybody else does.

[Paddington Bear]

Media seems to have finally cottoned on to Starmer’s addiction to freebies. Could be a fun five years

He even does freebies in a dull way. Where are the IT lessons with the sexy lap dancer or the Italian trip to russian oligarchs villa while ditching your security detail. Where is the coke fuelled sex binge at chequers with your ex leading to possibly the worst budget this country has ever had.

Or even a ‘PM disgraces himself at free bar at Arsenal game’ article. Dull man with a remarkable knack of accepting freebies

[I like neeps]

Media seems to have finally cottoned on to Starmer’s addiction to freebies. Could be a fun five years

He even does freebies in a dull way. Where are the IT lessons with the sexy lap dancer or the Italian trip to russian oligarchs villa while ditching your security detail. Where is the coke fuelled sex binge at chequers with your ex leading to possibly the worst budget this country has ever had.

Or even a ‘PM disgraces himself at free bar at Arsenal game’ article. Dull man with a remarkable knack of accepting freebies

We all got so exercised when the Tories sold influence and access so I'm sure everyone will be equally as annoyed by this.

Quite what do Labour donors get from buying his wife dresses? Hmm.

[_Os_]

As ever the UK media plays its strange role. Oborne has been on some journey. Started out on the Tory right, supported Brexit. Then decided Brexit was shit, then decided the Tories had gone completely mad, then decided he didn't much like Starmer's Labour either, now seems aligned with the Labour left.

Not sure the "corruption" stories the media are pushing are going to land. Anyone can list real Tory corruption quantitively and qualitatively worse than anything the UK has seen in living memory, minimum tens of billions stolen. One of the things Starmer should do is make sure there's criminal investigations from council level up, sending as many guilty people to prison as possible. A few MPs did jail time for the expenses scandal. It does not look like this will happen, anyone's guess why but I suspect it's because there's a risk it would damage the UK's reputation. The UK is playing by the same rules as everywhere else though, if corruption isn't rooted out the problem grows and deepens.

Powerful Times leader. I can't remember any Times leaders making the same point about Boris Johnson's free holidays, free meals from donors etc. I can remember the Times suppressing Simon Walters' story about Johnson wanting to make Carrie Symonds his £100,000 pa chief of staff.

[_Os_]

He even does freebies in a dull way. Where are the IT lessons with the sexy lap dancer or the Italian trip to russian oligarchs villa while ditching your security detail. Where is the coke fuelled sex binge at chequers with your ex leading to possibly the worst budget this country has ever had.

Or even a ‘PM disgraces himself at free bar at Arsenal game’ article. Dull man with a remarkable knack of accepting freebies

We all got so exercised when the Tories sold influence and access so I'm sure everyone will be equally as annoyed by this.

Quite what do Labour donors get from buying his wife dresses? Hmm.

The biggest single Labour donor is still trade unions (not a majority of the donated money, but larger than any other single donor). Business piled in behind them once it became obvious Starmer would win:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-m ... -analysis/

What are they getting for their support? Trade unions are getting a new employment rights bill. Difficult to tell what businesses will be getting, new PFI/PPP deals maybe it's the only way they can get the investment they're promising without increasing spending (now anyway), shovel out contracts that in the long run are more expensive than if it were state run. Problem with cutting back the state is it's very difficult to rebuild it and get results within a single term, this doesn't leave many options for a government that wants to do things.

Not impressed with the general direction on the economy. They seem completely convinced by the austerity logic of cutting expenditure. Problem is government spending isn't a cost because government isn't a business, it's an investment into the economy (much easier running a business if the workers are healthy, well educated, there's reliable and affordable public transport and utilities). Seems like a return to Cameron/Osborne, but with the tax rises of Johnson/Truss/Sunak. In other words higher taxes for less services. The movement on Brexit isn't large enough to matter either, they talk about a £22bn deficit, but the lost tax revenue pa from Brexit is estimated at £40bn.

There's no possibility of the UK staying out of the CU/SM long term if the UK keeps stagnating. No one knows how to make Brexit work for real, other than by ignoring it or saying "it is working". If that doesn't change all the time between the referendum and re-joining in some form, will come to be seen as a costly pointless waste of time.

If Labour keeps pushing austerity they're going to become deeply unpopular. It doesn't really stack that any country in Western Europe is poor and has limited opportunities for growth.