The Official English Rugby Thread

[inactionman]

It's just not worked out for him from an England perspective, so it's a real shame but I wouldn't really blame him. It went brilliantly for him at club level in France.

If I was him I'd have been pissed to be stuck behind later-years Billy in Eddie's teams, but he's still behind Earl, Dombrandt and arguably Barbeary so can't see where he'll get a look-in.

Toulon have bought out his contract for start of 25/26 season

Star number eight Zach Mercer will swap Gloucester Rugby for French Top 14 glamour side Toulon at the end of the 2024/25 season, GloucestershireLive understands.

Toulon are understood to have come to a compensation agreement with the Cherry and Whites to buy the 27-year-old out of the final two years of his initial four-year contract with the Gallagher Premiership side to bring him to the Stade Mayol for the 2025/26 season.

Good for both parties that I guess. Glaws can surely do with the money and Mercer gets to go back to a league where he was more effective and enjoy life in the south of France [rb]ather than waiting for an England call that's never going to come in an underperforming English team.[/b]

He's not had the best of luck with England - he presumably came back on a nod and a wink about a cap, but timed it for peak Ben Earl.

I'd agree with the bulk of your post but query whether the England team is currently underperforming, particularly back row - it's a real shame he was in France when Billy was out of form, and I understand why he left for France the first time round when he was stuck behind underperforming incumbents and Edie was being Eddie. It's in a better place now, although with a way to go, but Earl in particular has been excellent.

[sockwithaticket]

Toulon have bought out his contract for start of 25/26 season

Good for both parties that I guess. Glaws can surely do with the money and Mercer gets to go back to a league where he was more effective and enjoy life in the south of France [rb]ather than waiting for an England call that's never going to come in an underperforming English team.[/b]

He's not had the best of luck with England - he presumably came back on a nod and a wink about a cap, but timed it for peak Ben Earl.

I'd agree with the bulk of your post but query whether the England team is currently underperforming, particularly back row - it's a real shame he was in France when Billy was out of form, and I understand why he left for France the first time round when he was stuck behind underperforming incumbents and Edie was being Eddie. It's in a better place now, although with a way to go, but Earl in particular has been excellent.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear there, English team referring to Gloucester. Even if Mercer was in personally good form, which he hasn't been particularly, it's bloody hard to stand out playing for Glaws at the moment.

Having mentioned it, I'm willing to hold off on judging the Endland team for a little while yet . We only stopped playing cancerous rugby in the last 2 games of the 6N and actually looked reasonably good at the new alternative. To then only have a couple of tests against New Zealand on their own turf to go on makes it difficult to draw any conclusions.

[epwc]

Who knows what'll happen with England at the moment, coach turnover is as bad as Eddies isnt it?

[inactionman]

Who knows what'll happen with England at the moment, coach turnover is as bad as Eddies isnt it?

I'm still not sure what the deal was - one reading is that Borthwick is an arse to work with, another that Sinfield is queering the pitch, yet another that Walters wanted to move back to Ireland (he spent many years at Muster) and Jones was unsettled by Walters going.

Net immediate effect is the same, of course, but I'd be a lot more worried long term by the first of those readings in particular.

[inactionman]

Good for both parties that I guess. Glaws can surely do with the money and Mercer gets to go back to a league where he was more effective and enjoy life in the south of France [rb]ather than waiting for an England call that's never going to come in an underperforming English team.[/b]

He's not had the best of luck with England - he presumably came back on a nod and a wink about a cap, but timed it for peak Ben Earl.

I'd agree with the bulk of your post but query whether the England team is currently underperforming, particularly back row - it's a real shame he was in France when Billy was out of form, and I understand why he left for France the first time round when he was stuck behind underperforming incumbents and Edie was being Eddie. It's in a better place now, although with a way to go, but Earl in particular has been excellent.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear there, English team referring to Gloucester. Even if Mercer was in personally good form, which he hasn't been particularly, it's bloody hard to stand out playing for Glaws at the moment.

Having mentioned it, I'm willing to hold off on judging the Endland team for a little while yet . We only stopped playing cancerous rugby in the last 2 games of the 6N and actually looked reasonably good at the new alternative. To then only have a couple of tests against New Zealand on their own turf to go on makes it difficult to draw any conclusions.

Right, apologies - I misinterpreted. Glos were poor last season, and you're right that its hard to impress in a team going backwards.

[SaintK]

Who knows what'll happen with England at the moment, coach turnover is as bad as Eddies isnt it?

I'm still not sure what the deal was - one reading is that Borthwick is an arse to work with, another that Sinfield is queering the pitch, yet another that Walters wanted to move back to Ireland (he spent many years at Muster) and Jones was unsettled by Walters going.

Net immediate effect is the same, of course, but I'd be a lot more worried long term by the first of those readings in particular.

Heard he virtually doubled his money and will take on additional responsibilitie within the IRFU
Reckon Jones may well end up there asd well

[inactionman]

Hmm.

England head coach Steve Borthwick has been handed more control over his elite players by a landmark new agreement between the powerbrokers of the men's game.

As part of the eight-year deal, up to 25 England players will be given "enhanced contracts", with Borthwick getting the "final say on all sports science and medical matters".

The Rugby Football Union will pay the Premiership clubs £33m per season as the Professional Game Partnership aims "to create world-leading English teams and thriving professional leagues".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... vjlk3gr88o

[epwc]

World leading English teams? When was the last time we had club teams performing well in Europe?

[SaintK]

World leading English teams? When was the last time we had club teams performing well in Europe?

Cough!
Saints made the semi final last season and only narrowly lost to a Leinster team stuffed full of Irish squad players
Quins gave Toulouse a run for their money in the other semi as well
But I take your point.

[epwc]

Actually had forgotten already!

Would be nice to be regular contenders though

[sockwithaticket]

Actually had forgotten already!

Would be nice to be regular contenders though

I think we are tbh. In recent seasons the Prem record is:

23/24 - 2 semi-finalists, 4 quarter-finalists
22/23 - 1 semi, 3 quarter
21/22 - 0 semi, 2 quarter (this year Leinster were the only non-French semi-finalist
20/21 - 0 semi, 2 quarter
19/20 - 1 finalist, 2 semi, 3 quarter (and one of the quarters was contested between two English teams so one had to go out)

That compares pretty favourably with other nations. Without Leinster, Ireland's representation in the knock outs drops like a stone.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

World leading English teams? When was the last time we had club teams performing well in Europe?

Sarries and Exeter, back when the clubs were pushing player salaries to the points clubs would end up folding. Better to acknowledge where we are, and that really means the big payers in France and Ireland (really just Leinster) are likely to have the edge, but so be it for now

[epwc]

Yeah sustainability definitely better

[duke]

Sitiveni Sivivatu headed to Marlborough Rugby Club


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... rl4dng1l2o

Marlborough used to be a classic Dorset & Wiltshire town club - plenty of locals from all backgrounds together with a few passing squaddies based locally for a couple of years. They appear to have transformed themselves into a much tougher proposition with a lot of Fijian, Tongan and now NZ connections which have lead to them climbing the leagues at a fair rate. Not sure if they have a financial backer and it will be interesting to see how far they climb.

[Bullet]

Sitiveni Sivivatu headed to Marlborough Rugby Club


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... rl4dng1l2o

Marlborough used to be a classic Dorset & Wiltshire town club - plenty of locals from all backgrounds together with a few passing squaddies based locally for a couple of years. They appear to have transformed themselves into a much tougher proposition with a lot of Fijian, Tongan and now NZ connections which have lead to them climbing the leagues at a fair rate. Not sure if they have a financial backer and it will be interesting to see how far they climb.

Used to run Marlborough close each year in Dorset and Wilts cup before lockdown, pretty sure they had been automatically relegated (couple of times?) for unregistered players.
Last big name played against there was Chris Budgen after he left Exeter

[duke]

Sitiveni Sivivatu headed to Marlborough Rugby Club


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... rl4dng1l2o

Marlborough used to be a classic Dorset & Wiltshire town club - plenty of locals from all backgrounds together with a few passing squaddies based locally for a couple of years. They appear to have transformed themselves into a much tougher proposition with a lot of Fijian, Tongan and now NZ connections which have lead to them climbing the leagues at a fair rate. Not sure if they have a financial backer and it will be interesting to see how far they climb.

Used to run Marlborough close each year in Dorset and Wilts cup before lockdown, pretty sure they had been automatically relegated (couple of times?) for unregistered players.
Last big name played against there was Chris Budgen after he left Exeter

Who were you playing for? I used to be at Blandford a long time ago (retired in '96)

[petej]

Actually had forgotten already!

Would be nice to be regular contenders though

I think we are tbh. In recent seasons the Prem record is:

23/24 - 2 semi-finalists, 4 quarter-finalists
22/23 - 1 semi, 3 quarter
21/22 - 0 semi, 2 quarter (this year Leinster were the only non-French semi-finalist
20/21 - 0 semi, 2 quarter
19/20 - 1 finalist, 2 semi, 3 quarter (and one of the quarters was contested between two English teams so one had to go out)

That compares pretty favourably with other nations. Without Leinster, Ireland's representation in the knock outs drops like a stone.

We are also trying to achieve a different end point in our domestic competition that is more towards the NFL model (unpredictable) than the premiership football (predictable and dull despite the hype).

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Actually had forgotten already!

Would be nice to be regular contenders though

I think we are tbh. In recent seasons the Prem record is:

23/24 - 2 semi-finalists, 4 quarter-finalists
22/23 - 1 semi, 3 quarter
21/22 - 0 semi, 2 quarter (this year Leinster were the only non-French semi-finalist
20/21 - 0 semi, 2 quarter
19/20 - 1 finalist, 2 semi, 3 quarter (and one of the quarters was contested between two English teams so one had to go out)

That compares pretty favourably with other nations. Without Leinster, Ireland's representation in the knock outs drops like a stone.

We are also trying to achieve a different end point in our domestic competition that is more towards the NFL model (unpredictable) than the premiership football (predictable and dull despite the hype).

Maybe of recent times. So far it feels more like Leicester win followed by Sarries win with sporadic interest shown by Saints, Exeter and Quins

[Bullet]

Sitiveni Sivivatu headed to Marlborough Rugby Club


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... rl4dng1l2o

Marlborough used to be a classic Dorset & Wiltshire town club - plenty of locals from all backgrounds together with a few passing squaddies based locally for a couple of years. They appear to have transformed themselves into a much tougher proposition with a lot of Fijian, Tongan and now NZ connections which have lead to them climbing the leagues at a fair rate. Not sure if they have a financial backer and it will be interesting to see how far they climb.

Used to run Marlborough close each year in Dorset and Wilts cup before lockdown, pretty sure they had been automatically relegated (couple of times?) for unregistered players.
Last big name played against there was Chris Budgen after he left Exeter

Who were you playing for? I used to be at Blandford a long time ago (retired in '96)

Many games against Blandford but never an easy day.
Lytchett Minster 1987-2020

[duke]

Used to run Marlborough close each year in Dorset and Wilts cup before lockdown, pretty sure they had been automatically relegated (couple of times?) for unregistered players.
Last big name played against there was Chris Budgen after he left Exeter

Who were you playing for? I used to be at Blandford a long time ago (retired in '96)

Many games against Blandford but never an easy day.
Lytchett Minster 1987-2020

Usually first game of the season and then the 7s at the end of it, proper local rivalry

[inactionman]

England have recruited Dan Tobin from Gloucester as fitness coach

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... dgkwe380jo

I'm not up to speed on the qualities of various fitness coaches, but I'm sincerely hoping Gloucester's dire form of last season wasn't down to lack of conditioning.

[SaintK]

England have recruited Dan Tobin from Gloucester as fitness coach

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... dgkwe380jo

I'm not up to speed on the qualities of various fitness coaches, but I'm sincerely hoping Gloucester's dire form of last season wasn't down to lack of conditioning.

He had already been lined up to replace Tom Tombleson at the end of last season. Looks like it is an instant promotion for him unless O'Shea has found anyone else as good as Aled Walters!

[inactionman]

England have recruited Dan Tobin from Gloucester as fitness coach

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... dgkwe380jo

I'm not up to speed on the qualities of various fitness coaches, but I'm sincerely hoping Gloucester's dire form of last season wasn't down to lack of conditioning.

He had already been lined up to replace Tom Tombleson at the end of last season. Looks like it is an instant promotion for him unless O'Shea has found anyone else as good as Aled Walters!

That's reassuring, was worried England would go a bit knee-jerk.

Out of interest, and I ask only as it's near your neck of the woods - rugby league is kicking off an expansion team in Bedford, any views on whether this is good, bad, indifferent for union teams in the area?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... -expansion

As the article states, many other teams have tried this and failed, but thought it was noteworthy nonetheless as it;s in an area where union is very strong.

[SaintK]

England have recruited Dan Tobin from Gloucester as fitness coach

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... dgkwe380jo

I'm not up to speed on the qualities of various fitness coaches, but I'm sincerely hoping Gloucester's dire form of last season wasn't down to lack of conditioning.

He had already been lined up to replace Tom Tombleson at the end of last season. Looks like it is an instant promotion for him unless O'Shea has found anyone else as good as Aled Walters!

That's reassuring, was worried England would go a bit knee-jerk.

Out of interest, and I ask only as it's near your neck of the woods - rugby league is kicking off an expansion team in Bedford, any views on whether this is good, bad, indifferent for union teams in the area?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... -expansion

As the article states, many other teams have tried this and failed, but thought it was noteworthy nonetheless as it;s in an area where union is very strong.

As it says, the Bedfordshire region is a strong RU area with teams like Ampthill at level 2 down to numerous smaller teams down as far as level 9 Most of those clubs are well established, traditional clubs. Top be honest unless they are going to "buy" their way in and attract players that way I can't see many crossing codes. It will probably go the same way as previous efforts

[inactionman]

He had already been lined up to replace Tom Tombleson at the end of last season. Looks like it is an instant promotion for him unless O'Shea has found anyone else as good as Aled Walters!

That's reassuring, was worried England would go a bit knee-jerk.

Out of interest, and I ask only as it's near your neck of the woods - rugby league is kicking off an expansion team in Bedford, any views on whether this is good, bad, indifferent for union teams in the area?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... -expansion

As the article states, many other teams have tried this and failed, but thought it was noteworthy nonetheless as it;s in an area where union is very strong.

As it says, the Bedfordshire region is a strong RU area with teams like Ampthill at level 2 down to numerous smaller teams down as far as level 9 Most of those clubs are well established, traditional clubs. Top be honest unless they are going to "buy" their way in and attract players that way I can't see many crossing codes. It will probably go the same way as previous efforts

It seems a weird place to try to establish a RL presence

[petej]

That's reassuring, was worried England would go a bit knee-jerk.

Out of interest, and I ask only as it's near your neck of the woods - rugby league is kicking off an expansion team in Bedford, any views on whether this is good, bad, indifferent for union teams in the area?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... -expansion

As the article states, many other teams have tried this and failed, but thought it was noteworthy nonetheless as it;s in an area where union is very strong.

As it says, the Bedfordshire region is a strong RU area with teams like Ampthill at level 2 down to numerous smaller teams down as far as level 9 Most of those clubs are well established, traditional clubs. Top be honest unless they are going to "buy" their way in and attract players that way I can't see many crossing codes. It will probably go the same way as previous efforts

It seems a weird place to try to establish a RL presence

Very weird. You have saints not too far away and the bedford blues.

[SaintK]

Sinfield offered 3 year contract from RFU

[sockwithaticket]

Mixed feelings about that. Defence didn't look too sharp when he was in charge of it and the unclear situation about his coming and going over the last couple of years has been pretty unsatisfactory. That said, a bit of continuity in the national coaching set up wouldn't go amiss.

[fishfoodie]

More Competition merger rumors

viewtopic.php?p=371240#p371240

[sockwithaticket]

URC have already put out a statement slapping it down.

[Torquemada 1420]

Stuart Lancaster doing a job at Racing Farrell costs them the game last week and is in the bin this.

And the nepotism move to pick his deeply ordinary son is going well.

[petej]

Stuart Lancaster doing a job at Racing Farrell costs them the game last week and is in the bin this.

And the nepotism move to pick his deeply ordinary son is going well.

Farrell on form then?

[SaintK]

Stuart Lancaster doing a job at Racing Farrell costs them the game last week and is in the bin this.

And the nepotism move to pick his deeply ordinary son is going well.

Farrell on form then?

Though Racing managed a win

[Torquemada 1420]

Stuart Lancaster doing a job at Racing Farrell costs them the game last week and is in the bin this.

And the nepotism move to pick his deeply ordinary son is going well.

Farrell on form then?

He was poor again yesterday with Midol giving him 5/10.

[inactionman]

Looking forward to Friday's game, re-match of the 2024 final (Bath vs Northampton at the Rec)

Hoping for some clear weather to encourage some running rugby, although the rec surface is much less prone to waterlogging and bogging thanks to some improvements to the grass.

I'm going for a Bath win but within a converted try.

[inactionman]

I haven't missed this debate though - it's just never-bloody-ending.

Premiership coaches believe existing red-card protocols should be changed in an effort to keep “15 v 15” on the field and avoid “destroying the game” after three major finals last season were marred by sendings-off.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... g-the-game

[SaintK]

Looking forward to Friday's game, re-match of the 2024 final (Bath vs Northampton at the Rec)

Hoping for some clear weather to encourage some running rugby, although the rec surface is much less prone to waterlogging and bogging thanks to some improvements to the grass.

I'm going for a Bath win but within a converted try.

Not sure what to expect from Saints this season. Lot of experience has left but hopefully the attacking game will continue where it left off and the new found confident defence system will hold up.
Looking at Sarries, Bath, Sale as potential top four. Bristol have to step up this season and need to start where they left off at the end of last season. Quins also likely to be there or thereabouts.

[inactionman]

Looking forward to Friday's game, re-match of the 2024 final (Bath vs Northampton at the Rec)

Hoping for some clear weather to encourage some running rugby, although the rec surface is much less prone to waterlogging and bogging thanks to some improvements to the grass.

I'm going for a Bath win but within a converted try.

Not sure what to expect from Saints this season. Lot of experience has left but hopefully the attacking game will continue where it left off and the new found confident defence system will hold up.
Looking at Sarries, Bath, Sale as potential top four. Bristol have to step up this season and need to start where they left off at the end of last season. Quins also likely to be there or thereabouts.

Aye, Losing the likes of Ludlum and Lawes in particular is going to hurt, but I think it's an entire front row as well? I missed Paul Hill has moved up to Edinburgh, never quite kicked on the way I hoped he might.

Still, hoping Saints keep the same approach as last season - the backs still look very, very handy.

Bath have let a few go and a few have retired, but they tended to be squad players and it looks like a general belt-tightening that most teams are going through. Guy Pepper has signed from Newcastle, interested to see how he goes although back row is pretty competitive at Bath at the minute.

[JM2K6]

I haven't missed this debate though - it's just never-bloody-ending.

Premiership coaches believe existing red-card protocols should be changed in an effort to keep “15 v 15” on the field and avoid “destroying the game” after three major finals last season were marred by sendings-off.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... g-the-game

Meagher is the fucking worst for this stuff and it's the same handful of coaches every time. Tedious whining about matches being ruined while referring to brilliant contests. Pricks, the lot of them.

[inactionman]

I haven't missed this debate though - it's just never-bloody-ending.

Premiership coaches believe existing red-card protocols should be changed in an effort to keep “15 v 15” on the field and avoid “destroying the game” after three major finals last season were marred by sendings-off.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... g-the-game

Meagher is the fucking worst for this stuff and it's the same handful of coaches every time. Tedious whining about matches being ruined while referring to brilliant contests. Pricks, the lot of them.

They may have been exciting, but as a Bath fan I'd really rather Obano wasn't sent off.

But, yes, the whole ongoing back-and-forth is tedious, and it needs to be a mantra that we can't have people suffering brain injuries and life-long disability just because big hits are fun. Everything else should be secondary to that.