Kicking off in Israel

[Slick]

A pretty staggering operation by the Israelis.

Escalation of some sort probably inevitable.

It all sounds a bit bollocksy to be honest. No idea whats going on, but this feels very odd.

[Margin__Walker]

A pretty staggering operation by the Israelis.

They can do this, but still chose to flatten or make uninhabitable pretty much every single building in Gaza.

I'm sure they would have loved to do this to Hamas.

It will have been exceptionally difficult to get into the supply chain in the way they have here. Hezbollah clearly dropped the ball in the way Hamas haven't to date

[Blackmac]

A pretty staggering operation by the Israelis.

Escalation of some sort probably inevitable.

To be fair. This is next level evil genius stuff from the Israel intelligence services. I think we can presume that most of those killed and injured will not be nice people.

[epwc]

I think we can presume that most of those killed and injured will not be nice people.

No argument from me on that, it's just all the other fuckers that they've killed

[Jock42]

that's fucking brilliant

[vball]

I am staggered at this. This really is like science fiction ... all pagers either were manufactured with a battery/device capable of exploding and then all updated with some code to be run remotely. And then boom.

[fishfoodie]

I am staggered at this. This really is like science fiction ... all pagers either were manufactured with a battery/device capable of exploding and then all updated with some code to be run remotely. And then boom.

Not science fiction, but so factual the method even gets mentioned in a Tom Clancy book, where he recounts the rumor that the Mossad bumped off a target using a mobile phone !

This was back in the days when mobiles were the size of house bricks, so the rumor was that the last phone call this guy got were from the head of Mossad, before he lost his own head !

Pagers don't allow so much explosive, but I'd say there's a few guys who won't be having any more kids, or enjoying spicy food any more.

[Slick]

A pretty staggering operation by the Israelis.

They can do this, but still chose to flatten or make uninhabitable pretty much every single building in Gaza.

Sounds like there at still many innocents killed or maimed. Still, it’s just Israel being Israel, no harm done

[I like neeps]

Terrorists going to terrorise.

[Guy Smiley]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

[epwc]

It is, hundreds of people made blind or needing amputations.

They are completely untouchable

[mat the expat]

It's a massive escalation.

[bogbunny]

It is, hundreds of people made blind or needing amputations.

They are completely untouchable

If it's mainly Hezbollah members, pretty legitimate.?

[JM2K6]

It is, hundreds of people made blind or needing amputations.

They are completely untouchable

If it's mainly Hezbollah members, pretty legitimate.?

No. For a start, Hezbollah are also a legitimate political party in Lebanon, these attacks have killed scores of non combatants, unaffiliated civilians, and children.

It's a terror attack.

[Enzedder]

Good God but there are devious minds within mankind. Some bugger has thought of this (sick prick) and then sold it to his bosses and their political leaders (even sicker pricks),

[Guy Smiley]

It is, hundreds of people made blind or needing amputations.

They are completely untouchable

If it's mainly Hezbollah members, pretty legitimate.?

The self defense, innit argument.

[bogbunny]

It is, hundreds of people made blind or needing amputations.

They are completely untouchable

If it's mainly Hezbollah members, pretty legitimate.?

No. For a start, Hezbollah are also a legitimate political party in Lebanon, these attacks have killed scores of non combatants, unaffiliated civilians, and children.

It's a terror attack.

Designated terrorist organisation?

[Guy Smiley]

If it's mainly Hezbollah members, pretty legitimate.?

No. For a start, Hezbollah are also a legitimate political party in Lebanon, these attacks have killed scores of non combatants, unaffiliated civilians, and children.

It's a terror attack.

Designated terrorist organisation?

Who, the Israelis? Starting to look that way, yeah.

[JM2K6]

If it's mainly Hezbollah members, pretty legitimate.?

No. For a start, Hezbollah are also a legitimate political party in Lebanon, these attacks have killed scores of non combatants, unaffiliated civilians, and children.

It's a terror attack.

Designated terrorist organisation?

I said "also". It's not exactly uncommon throughout history for there to be paramilitary groups and political wings.

Also wanted to row back a bit on "scores" as that was overstating it - I don't think the actual death toll is that high yet. A lot of very serious injuries, no doubt.

[Slick]

No. For a start, Hezbollah are also a legitimate political party in Lebanon, these attacks have killed scores of non combatants, unaffiliated civilians, and children.

It's a terror attack.

Designated terrorist organisation?

I said "also". It's not exactly uncommon throughout history for there to be paramilitary groups and political wings.

Also wanted to row back a bit on "scores" as that was overstating it - I don't think the actual death toll is that high yet. A lot of very serious injuries, no doubt.

One of the dead is truly evil 9 your old girl though.

[Blackmac]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

[I like neeps]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

Setting off bombs when you have no idea where the bombs are is indiscriminate, though.

As seen by a child being a victim.

[SaintK]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

How so? It appears there are 100's of injured innocent by-standers.

[C69]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

Hundreds of civilians and children have been injured FFS.

[robmatic]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

How so? It appears there are 100's of injured innocent by-standers.

If Israel had sent a volley of a few thousand rockets into Lebanon or made a similar number of bombing sorties, do you think fewer bystanders would have been injured?

[inactionman]

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

How so? It appears there are 100's of injured innocent by-standers.

If Israel had sent a volley of a few thousand rockets into Lebanon or made a similar number of bombing sorties, do you think fewer bystanders would have been injured?

Is that really the point?

They've put thousands of small bombs into people's pockets and let them wander through markets, homes, schools. It is indiscriminate, although I do recognise there's not much they can do that is directly targeted.

[SaintK]

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

How so? It appears there are 100's of injured innocent by-standers.

If Israel had sent a volley of a few thousand rockets into Lebanon or made a similar number of bombing sorties, do you think fewer bystanders would have been injured?

Obviously not.
But this is indiscriminately across the whole country not just one "targeted area"

[Blackmac]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

How so? It appears there are 100's of injured innocent by-standers.

Well Israel have proved themselves capable of levelling whole towns to take out a few terrorists so I think you have to be daft to suggest that this isn't more targeted.

Anyone suggesting this is peak cuntishness in what these people are prepared to do is having a laugh.

[Blackmac]

That is a fucking horrifying development.

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

Hundreds of civilians and children have been injured FFS.

Try reading the post instead of getting your knickers in a twist. I said "less indiscriminate" and of course it fucking is. You know exactly what these lot are prepared to do to each other. This is a bizarre way to do it, but to suggest it is any more horrific than what these cnuts have been prepared to do to each in the past and will do in the future is just ridiculous.

I take it you have confirmation of these hundreds of additional injuries because I've seen footage of at least a dozen of these going off and it appears to do little damage to anyone other than the intended target. According to Hezbollah themselves 2500 have gone off and we have 9 deaths and 200 seriously injured. It's not outrageous to suggest that most of those were not innocent kids and bystanders but rather the terrorists that had them in their pockets.

[Slick]

Read a bit from an eye surgeon who has spent the last 24 hours working solidly who was saying the pagers beeped a few seconds before exploding so that folk would take them out of their pocket and have them in front of their faces. Apparently he has had to remove both eyes from multiple people

[epwc]

They are indeed a humane and just force in the Middle East, thank god.

[SaintK]

Hand held radios today!

Reuters are also reporting that the communication devices that exploded on Wednesday afternoon were handheld radios. The news agency cites a security source and witness for the information.
According to its sources, Reuters reports that at least one of the blasts heard took place near a funeral organised by Hezbollah for those killed the previous day when thousands of pagers used by the group detonated across Lebanon.

[Blackmac]

The one person I wouldn't like to be today is the Hezbollah Quarermaster at Arms.

[C69]

I think every way that man has found of killing their fellow man over the years has appeared more and more terrifying. You could say the same about cannon, machine guns etc. I personally find the development of anti personnel drones to be absolutely horrendous.

At least this appears less indiscriminate that many other options and I think the circumstances that allowed it to happen will be very, very unlikely to repeat themselves.

These cunts are going to try and kill each other any which way they can and most options are a hell of a lot worse than this.

Hundreds of civilians and children have been injured FFS.

Try reading the post instead of getting your knickers in a twist. I said "less indiscriminate" and of course it fucking is. You know exactly what these lot are prepared to do to each other. This is a bizarre way to do it, but to suggest it is any more horrific than what these cnuts have been prepared to do to each in the past and will do in the future is just ridiculous.

I take it you have confirmation of these hundreds of additional injuries because I've seen footage of at least a dozen of these going off and it appears to do little damage to anyone other than the intended target. According to Hezbollah themselves 2500 have gone off and we have 9 deaths and 200 seriously injured. It's not outrageous to suggest that most of those were not innocent kids and bystanders but rather the terrorists that had them in their pockets.

It's terrorism FFS. Thousands injured.
A new low, a sets a very new precident.

[C69]

It is clearly a war crime.
I am channelling my inner war crimes lawyer who set out why on Ch4 earlier.

Jeffrey Nice set out why clearly.
On a purely legal basis.

[Enzedder]

Anyone questioning why the Iranian Ambassador had one of these Hezbollah pagers? Removes any doubt as to collusion, surely,

[Blackmac]

Hundreds of civilians and children have been injured FFS.

Try reading the post instead of getting your knickers in a twist. I said "less indiscriminate" and of course it fucking is. You know exactly what these lot are prepared to do to each other. This is a bizarre way to do it, but to suggest it is any more horrific than what these cnuts have been prepared to do to each in the past and will do in the future is just ridiculous.

I take it you have confirmation of these hundreds of additional injuries because I've seen footage of at least a dozen of these going off and it appears to do little damage to anyone other than the intended target. According to Hezbollah themselves 2500 have gone off and we have 9 deaths and 200 seriously injured. It's not outrageous to suggest that most of those were not innocent kids and bystanders but rather the terrorists that had them in their pockets.

It's terrorism FFS. Thousands injured.
A new low, a sets a very new precident.

I've read my posts again, and no, not a trace of any attempt to condone it, so you can get off your high horse. I still fail to understand how you can see this as a new low, when you have seen what both sides are capable of in the past. Ingenious and unusual maybe but any more horrific than normal. Nah.
,

[Calculon]

Palestinians have legitimate grievances with Israel but not so sure about Hezbollah. Israel withdrew completely from Lebanon in 2000 but Hezbollah continue to fire thousands of rockets into northern Israeli towns. Only reason there hasn’t been scores of civilian casualties is cos the Israelis have evacuated those northern towns, plus their missile defense is pretty good. Even so Hezbollah get “lucky” at times like a few months ago when one of their rockets exploded on a sports field killing children playing in a football match. They were also responsible for the bombing of the Jewish Community Centre in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people, and numerous other terrorist attacks. They appear to act as an Iranian/Syrian proxy and state within a state in Lebanon and have done immense harm to that country.

As devious and horrific as this attack is, it’s much more targeted than any other option.

[C69]

Palestinians have legitimate grievances with Israel but not so sure about Hezbollah. Israel withdrew completely from Lebanon in 2000 but Hezbollah continue to fire thousands of rockets into northern Israeli towns. Only reason there hasn’t been scores of civilian casualties is cos the Israelis have evacuated those northern towns, plus their missile defense is pretty good. Even so Hezbollah get “lucky” at times like a few months ago when one of their rockets exploded on a sports field killing children playing in a football match. They were also responsible for the bombing of the Jewish Community Centre in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people, and numerous other terrorist attacks. They appear to act as an Iranian/Syrian proxy and state within a state in Lebanon and have done immense harm to that country.

As devious and horrific as this attack is, it’s much more targeted than any other option.

In a war you can't target non combatants indiscriminately, you must ensure that civilians are not going to be injured.
Ergo this is a war crime according to members of the team that prosecuted Milosovic.

[Raggs]

Palestinians have legitimate grievances with Israel but not so sure about Hezbollah. Israel withdrew completely from Lebanon in 2000 but Hezbollah continue to fire thousands of rockets into northern Israeli towns. Only reason there hasn’t been scores of civilian casualties is cos the Israelis have evacuated those northern towns, plus their missile defense is pretty good. Even so Hezbollah get “lucky” at times like a few months ago when one of their rockets exploded on a sports field killing children playing in a football match. They were also responsible for the bombing of the Jewish Community Centre in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people, and numerous other terrorist attacks. They appear to act as an Iranian/Syrian proxy and state within a state in Lebanon and have done immense harm to that country.

As devious and horrific as this attack is, it’s much more targeted than any other option.

In a war you can't target non combatants indiscriminately, you must ensure that civilians are not going to be injured.
Ergo this is a war crime according to members of the team that prosecuted Milosovic.

They didn't target non combatants indiscriminately. These were Hezbollah devices. The pager attack saw 10 dead Hezbollah agents, out of 12 deaths (one was the little girl, I don't know who the last one was, it may have also been Hezbollah but not announced). There's not many attacks in war that get more targeted than that.

You also don't have to ensure that civilians will not be injured. There are absolutely limits on what you can do, but civilian injuries and deaths are recognised as unavoidable in warfare and are not war crimes.