Poor Workmanship

[Slick]

I think the answer to this is probably

But, we bought a flat/apartment a couple of years ago in a small building that is now 12 years old. We had a couple of issues when we first moved in like the floorboards in one bedroom were not attached to the joists properly so the floor slopped and was bouncy. Annoying, but didn't think much of it.

We are now starting to get quite a few other problems which I suppose isn't unexpected after 12 years but more and more we are realising, and being told, that the workmanship is absolutely terrible. Things like the extractor fans in the bathrooms blow out and anyway don't lead outside, just to a cavity, everything in the bathroom is boxed in so to get access to the pipes a plumber has had to take up most of the floor and much of the wall tiling, the shower is basically glued together. The damp proofing and and run off on the balcony is far too short so rainwater is running into the flat below. The pipes running into the underground car park/basement are leaking causing issues. And loads more shit things.

Anyway, it has annoyed me. The question i, after all these years do we have any recourse with the original builders?

[Paddington Bear]

I believe this all applies in Scotland to a greater or lesser extent:

General principle on property purchases is caveat emptor, buyer beware. Essentially, you bought it, it’s yours, you fix it. There is in England an exception to this for fraud and around some consumer protection. This would probably only really be engaged if you were actively lied to.

As a relatively new build, it ought to have some coverage from the NHBC and possibly other insurance policies as well that may well be worth digging out. NHBC I believe unfortunately usually expires after 10 years, but the developer may have made a better offer. Claiming against that if it exists is I think is your only viable option. Even then they would drag their feet for years I’d imagine.

Unfortunately property is the wild west and these people keep getting away with it.

[dpedin]

I believe this all applies in Scotland to a greater or lesser extent:

General principle on property purchases is caveat emptor, buyer beware. Essentially, you bought it, it’s yours, you fix it. There is in England an exception to this for fraud and around some consumer protection. This would probably only really be engaged if you were actively lied to.

As a relatively new build, it ought to have some coverage from the NHBC and possibly other insurance policies as well that may well be worth digging out. NHBC I believe unfortunately usually expires after 10 years, but the developer may have made a better offer. Claiming against that if it exists is I think is your only viable option. Even then they would drag their feet for years I’d imagine.

Unfortunately property is the wild west and these people keep getting away with it.

I think Paddington sums it up perfectly. NHBC cover is usually 10 years and even then getting any claim through is very difficult. If you own it then you pay for it, especially beyond 10 years. My flat is 17-18 years old and I have same issue re bathrooms - the wall to wall tiling looks great but heaven forbid you need to get to any pipework! Fortunately the rest of my flat is decently built however we are having a few issues with old retaining walls around the property that need redone, not cheap!

[Blackmac]

Does anyone follow the Welsh property snagger on Instagram. Very funny but terribly depressing about the state of building standards. Basically don't touch most new builds with a barge pole.

[epwc]

NHBC is a load of toss.

My daughters apartment, built in 2009 by Berkeley Homes has almost identical issues. Fuck all you can do.

The system has to change (you might have heard me say that before).

[epwc]

Not sure if you could do some kind of "class action" if all the residents got together?

[Margin__Walker]

My wife and I bought a new build a decade ago. Nothing game breaking wrong structurally, but my god, as soon as you peel things back a little you see some hilarious stuff.

Absolute cowboys.

[Slick]

NHBC is a load of toss.

My daughters apartment, built in 2009 by Berkeley Homes has almost identical issues. Fuck all you can do.

The system has to change (you might have heard me say that before).

Thanks mate, was waiting for your input!

Thanks everyone, as I thought but worth an ask.

The cunts

[Oxbow]

Just about to buy a new build, this thread does not fill me with confidence

[Jock42]

Just about to buy a new build, this thread does not fill me with confidence

Been in ours 3 years and not had any issues. The couple of wee snags we had when we first moved in were sorted quickly.

[fishfoodie]

Just about to buy a new build, this thread does not fill me with confidence

During the height of the Irish property bubble, on a board I attended about property, someone made the comment that you've more consumer protection buying a bar of chocolate, than you do making the largest single purchase most people ever make !

Do your due diligence & get a survey etc, but remember that everyone you deal with it is just out to get your money, & with the housing market the way it is, they don't care if you drop out, because there's ten other punters behind you !

Reputation counts for a lot with builders, but you can only do what you can do in terms of pre-purchase checks.

[Jethro]

If it makes you feel any better went and checked out a new Apartment block a couple of weekends ago with an eye to an investment property. Building standards in Australia have arsed out. Already seeing cabinets that I could have knocked up, i.e. total shite, sheeting on outside which looks like it might come off the next time it rains, and the concrete driveways are already cracking. Shoddy to the max, would have loved to have a look at what was happening behind the shower walls, can guarantee they half arsed it on the materials. Interestingly no solar or water tanks, thought at least water tanks are a requirement for modern builds.

Having a look this weekend at a place built back in the 1970s, Missus J's favourite building decade. Looks like it needs a makeover, but pretty sound brick construction.

For anyone in Oz, this is regional Australia, for sure not getting into the hell hole that is the major Cities.

[epwc]

Surveyors are a complete piss take, my in laws bought a bungalow about 10 years ago, literally nothing was picked up by the tosser

[epwc]

Just about to buy a new build, this thread does not fill me with confidence

There are good builders about I’m sure but in general the standard is appalling

[fishfoodie]

Surveyors are a complete piss take, my in laws bought a bungalow about 10 years ago, literally nothing was picked up by the tosser

You need to find one that's a bit of a poacher turned gamekeeper.

I remember buying my home that the EA was blathering on about the house & I said that I'd of course be having a survey done, & he continued blathering & said that it was mostly a waste of time, & how there was this one guy who kept on holding up sales by pointing out spurious* issues ...... guess who I was using

I was in a better position than most, as my Dad was a builder & I'd been around building sites a long time, so even though I wasn't in construction myself, I knew the leading signs you could see on the surface, that would tell you that there, might, be bigger issues where you couldn't see them.

Plumbing is a great thing to check; it's relatively easy to check, because it's accessible, but if it's shit, then that tells you all about the care that went into the construction overall.

* In the EA's opinion obviously !

[Slick]

Bit of advice if I may, gentlemen.

For the shower that has been leaking for years apparently and completely rotted the floor underneath we have been given the go ahead from insurance to get the floor redone, replace the shower tray (refit the old shower screen which I’m not sure is going to work) and they have said the replace damaged tiles but if those ones are no longer available they will pay 50% for the replacement of the undamaged ones.

The question is, we have the choice of going with our plumber, who we know but I don’t massively rate to be honest, or one of their approved buliders or take a cash settlement. I guess one of their approved builders would give a bit more accountability but not sure of the best option.

Their email also mentioned remediation of everything but nothing about finding or fixing the actual leaking issue that has caused all this - should I presume they take that for granted?

[epwc]

Don’t take anything for granted!

It was likely a failure in the grout/silicon somewhere in the shower but would be useful to know, poor installation of shower enclosure can be an issue.

In the circumstances I’d retile completely with new shower tray and enclosure to have some chance of properly fixing.

Insurance contractor is no guarantee of a good job, but then how’d you find someone who is?

[Slick]

Don’t take anything for granted!

It was likely a failure in the grout/silicon somewhere in the shower but would be useful to know, poor installation of shower enclosure can be an issue.

In the circumstances I’d retile completely with new shower tray and enclosure to have some chance of properly fixing.

Insurance contractor is no guarantee of a good job, but then how’d you find someone who is?

Appreciate that their approved contractor may be shit, but wouldn’t that give us a bit more recourse to go back to them if it is shit and get it redone?

[lemonhead]

Surveyors are a complete piss take, my in laws bought a bungalow about 10 years ago, literally nothing was picked up by the tosser

Some absolutely are. Which is why spending a bit of time finding the right one can make a huge difference.

Ours came in to look at a single defect and also highlighted subsidence on property that has since changed hands multiple times at lower asking prices.

When we looked to buy our current house he pointed out a wall ties issue that eventually led to three grand off the sale price. In the south east I'm sure this could wind up with you standing firm and losing the sale to several other suckers with ready cash but at worst you have full knowledge of what you'ŕe buying.

[Enzedder]

Surveyors are a complete piss take, my in laws bought a bungalow about 10 years ago, literally nothing was picked up by the tosser

Some absolutely are. Which is why spending a bit of time finding the right one can make a huge difference.

Ours came in to look at a single defect and also highlighted subsidence on property that has since changed hands multiple times at lower asking prices.

When we looked to buy our current house he pointed out a wall ties issue that eventually led to three grand off the sale price. In the south east I'm sure this could wind up with you standing firm and losing the sale to several other suckers with ready cash but at worst you have full knowledge of what you'ŕe buying.

In my Hamilton purchase in the 90s, the building inspection company noted that the house was covered in a product called Weatherside and that the product was useless. They also advised that the owners had received compensation from the supplier for the crap product but hadn't fixed the house so I dropped the price by the amount to reclad it (and then saved a heap by paying cash under the table to get it fixed).

Saved me almost $10k in 1990s prices

[epwc]

Appreciate that their approved contractor may be shit, but wouldn’t that give us a bit more recourse to go back to them if it is shit and get it redone?

I guess and if you don’t have someone you trust then probably the best you can do

[weegie01]

Aspect Joinery are the boys to call. http://aspectedinburgh.com/

They used to do the maintenance on my wife's offices, and we use them for everything in Edinburgh. Garo is the chap you want to talk to.

One of my sons bought a New Town conversion a couple of years ago and it has been a nightmare, especially with leaking, inaccessible pipes. Although joiners by trade they either have guys who do other trades, or call in contacts.

[fishfoodie]

If I win the euro millions tonight……

https://www.independent.ie/life/home-ga ... 87148.html

Even comes with a couple of islands for when the in-laws visit….