The Scottish Politics Thread

[weegie01]

I was quite amused to see the tax expert wheeled out on Landward talk about IHT say that a viable family farm is circa £4m. I'd say £3m is closer to the mark with £2m being the minimum.

They did not mention that the tax expert quoted is the daughter and sister of farmers and not exactly objective.

[Tichtheid]

I was quite amused to see the tax expert wheeled out on Landward talk about IHT say that a viable family farm is circa £4m. I'd say £3m is closer to the mark with £2m being the minimum.

They did not mention that the tax expert quoted is the daughter and sister of farmers and not exactly objective.

I haven't watched the latest episode yet, but I'll catch up with it.

I was talking with an old boss of mine very recently and he was fuming about the IHT on farmers - he doesn't have anything like those figures in net worth.

[weegie01]

I was quite amused to see the tax expert wheeled out on Landward talk about IHT say that a viable family farm is circa £4m. I'd say £3m is closer to the mark with £2m being the minimum.

They did not mention that the tax expert quoted is the daughter and sister of farmers and not exactly objective.

I haven't watched the latest episode yet, but I'll catch up with it.

I was talking with an old boss of mine very recently and he was fuming about the IHT on farmers - he doesn't have anything like those figures in net worth.

There is a lot of disinformation and misunderstanding on this. That both sides have put out wildly different versions of reality does not help, and a great deal of what is coming from the farming side, and NFU and other bodies is alarmist and doing farmers a disservice by scaring folk that do not need to be.

First of all, there is no doubt HMRC / Labour messed up. They have managed to set up a tax with good intent, i.e. hit wealthy people owning farmland solely for IHT purposes, and manged to hit the real family farms instead. After tax planning, the numbers will not be huge, but nonetheless the wrong target has been hit.

One of the genuine issues is that older farmers who have been blithely going along doing no IHT planning as their farms were exempt, now do not have the time to put in mitigation strategies. HMRC are belatedly looking at exempting older farmers.

A lot depends on individual circumstances, but assuming they start early enough, most family farms will be able to plan round it. It may mean for example one generation passing control to the next earlier than intended, which may not suit some people. Some will not be able to plan around it for personal reasons, but realistically a couple who are partners in a £2m property should able to pass it on tax free, then there are personal exemptions on top.

It was quite surprsing that Landward, having bothered to have a segment, was not more objective and should have been telling farmers to go to their tax advisers to get advice on how this really affects them and what they can do.

BTW
Something that is getting almost no attention is that business relief has also been changed so it's not just farmers affected.

[Slick]

Do you want to start with the good news, the bad news, or the really bad news? The good news is that the crisis in the NHS can no longer be denied. It is there, plain and obvious for all to see and for an increasing number of people to experience too. The bad news is that it is, well, a crisis. And the really bad news is that it won’t end anytime soon.

The Times has published what old hands call a marmalade-dropper of a story. The kind of story, that is, which is so astonishing it causes you to drop your morning slice of toast. The sort of news you read more than once just so you can properly grasp its details, meaning, and significance.

As our reporters revealed, “the number of people waiting more than 104 weeks for treatment in Scottish hospitals is almost 100 times higher than in England”. Not, you will note, 100 times higher per capita but 100 times higher in absolute terms. Almost 11,000 people have been waiting more than two years for treatment here. In England the most comparable number is 113. That is not a typo. In per capita terms, the Scottish waiting list is 1,000 times longer than the English one.

And, look, let’s not beat around any bushes here: nobody thinks the NHS is performing well in England. The sceptics include the health secretary, Wes Streeting, who says his department now operates on the foundational principle that NHS England is broken. If it’s broken there, then we may need entirely new vocabulary to describe its brokenness here in Scotland.

The recent story of the NHS is a remarkable one. The health service is doing less with more. It has more staff and more money than it did five years ago — in those happier, pre-Covid times — but is somehow seeing and treating fewer patients. Productivity has slumped, and while this problem is not unique to the Scottish NHS it is particularly acute here.

It cannot be stressed often enough that recent increases to NHS spending have largely been spent on higher salaries for NHS workers. Very nice for them, of course, but not always of obvious benefit to patients save to the extent — and this is a reasonable consideration — higher pay aids staff retention.

Even allowing for that, though, higher pay is a cost not an “investment” of the sort that actually delivers a return. Ministers talk as though more generous salaries and more doctors and nurses are axiomatically good things. It is true that increasing the number of medical practitioners is an important part of meeting the ever-increasing demand for healthcare but, taken in isolation, it is at best a necessary but far from sufficient condition for improving the service overall.

One part of the productivity puzzle may be explained by the fact that although the NHS now employs more doctors and nurses, the number of beds in hospitals has not increased. Indeed, the rise in bed-blocking means that, functionally, Scottish hospitals have fewer available beds than they did before the pandemic. Ministers have been promising to end delayed-discharge for years; in August this year, 2,000 hospital beds were occupied each day by patients who had no clinical reason for being in hospital.

we will just be back in the same position in fairly short order with delivery not matching rhetoric

[Tichtheid]

There is a rebuttal to that Times article here, it's fully sourced by the looks of it - ignore the language used about "poser" doctors, that doesn't matter. I have only skim read it, but if the sources and interpretations are true, it does seem that the Times piece is misleading at best.

https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/1 ... ction-cam/

[Slick]

There is a rebuttal to that Times article here, it's fully sourced by the looks of it - ignore the language used about "poser" doctors, that doesn't matter. I have only skim read it, but if the sources and interpretations are true, it does seem that the Times piece is misleading at best.

https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/1 ... ction-cam/

That's quite a post

[Dogbert]

There is a rebuttal to that Times article here, it's fully sourced by the looks of it - ignore the language used about "poser" doctors, that doesn't matter. I have only skim read it, but if the sources and interpretations are true, it does seem that the Times piece is misleading at best.

https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/1 ... ction-cam/

Almost would make you believe that the Times has some sort of agenda

[Slick]

There is a rebuttal to that Times article here, it's fully sourced by the looks of it - ignore the language used about "poser" doctors, that doesn't matter. I have only skim read it, but if the sources and interpretations are true, it does seem that the Times piece is misleading at best.

https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/1 ... ction-cam/

Almost would make you believe that the Times has some sort of agenda

Unlike "Talking Up Scotland"

[Deepsouth]

You had your chance....

[Tichtheid]

There is a rebuttal to that Times article here, it's fully sourced by the looks of it - ignore the language used about "poser" doctors, that doesn't matter. I have only skim read it, but if the sources and interpretations are true, it does seem that the Times piece is misleading at best.

https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/1 ... ction-cam/

Almost would make you believe that the Times has some sort of agenda

Unlike "Talking Up Scotland"

I think it's fair to say that it's pretty obvious where Talking Up Scotland stand, but the sources in the article are NHS England, ONS, NHS Wales, Public Health Scotland, a Guardian article which has its sources in the links, a couple of BBC articles which include Cancer Research UK and NHS England among others as their sources.

The Times is supposed to be a bastion of fourth estate impartiality.

[Slick]

Almost would make you believe that the Times has some sort of agenda

Unlike "Talking Up Scotland"

I think it's fair to say that it's pretty obvious where Talking Up Scotland stand, but the sources in the article are NHS England, ONS, NHS Wales, Public Health Scotland, a Guardian article which has its sources in the links, a couple of BBC articles which include Cancer Research UK and NHS England among others as their sources.

The Times is supposed to be a bastion of fourth estate impartiality.

You post an article from TuP, ask me to ignore the language, say you have just skim read it but that if it's true then the Times article is misleading. To be fair that's about the standard of discussion we get in Scotland, and that's the biggest issue.

[Biffer]

There is a rebuttal to that Times article here, it's fully sourced by the looks of it - ignore the language used about "poser" doctors, that doesn't matter. I have only skim read it, but if the sources and interpretations are true, it does seem that the Times piece is misleading at best.

https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2024/1 ... ction-cam/

Almost would make you believe that the Times has some sort of agenda

Unlike "Talking Up Scotland"

So the question obviously is, given funding problems etc. would you rather the NHS was concentrating on life threatening or non life threatening procedures? NHS Scotland is doing one of those things, NHS England is doing the other. Straightforward policy choice.

[Tichtheid]

Unlike "Talking Up Scotland"

I think it's fair to say that it's pretty obvious where Talking Up Scotland stand, but the sources in the article are NHS England, ONS, NHS Wales, Public Health Scotland, a Guardian article which has its sources in the links, a couple of BBC articles which include Cancer Research UK and NHS England among others as their sources.

The Times is supposed to be a bastion of fourth estate impartiality.

You post an article from TuP, ask me to ignore the language, say you have just skim read it but that if it's true then the Times article is misleading. To be fair that's about the standard of discussion we get in Scotland, and that's the biggest issue.

I've read both properly now and followed the links given to the sources in order to check them.

The Talking Up Scotland piece is accurate according to the links to NHS England, Public Health Scotland, Cancer Research UK, ONS, Health Service Journal, NHS Wales. The Times is very misleading and I think deliberately so.

What do you think of them both?

[Biffer]

I think it's fair to say that it's pretty obvious where Talking Up Scotland stand, but the sources in the article are NHS England, ONS, NHS Wales, Public Health Scotland, a Guardian article which has its sources in the links, a couple of BBC articles which include Cancer Research UK and NHS England among others as their sources.

The Times is supposed to be a bastion of fourth estate impartiality.

You post an article from TuP, ask me to ignore the language, say you have just skim read it but that if it's true then the Times article is misleading. To be fair that's about the standard of discussion we get in Scotland, and that's the biggest issue.

I've read both properly now and followed the links given to the sources in order to check them.

The Talking Up Scotland piece is accurate according to the links to NHS England, Public Health Scotland, Cancer Research UK, ONS, Health Service Journal, NHS Wales. The Times is very misleading and I think deliberately so.

What do you think of them both?

Indeed, the TUP acknowledges that the times article is correct for the particular stat it has taken, but presents a wider view and gives more context, and sources.

[Biffer]

LNER are finally implementing their faster trains between London and Edinburgh - one train an hour at four hours eight minutes (the other one will be a bit longer with more stops, as currently). Glad to hear this, it’s been a long time coming. Makes flying to London even less attractive.

[Slick]

LNER are finally implementing their faster trains between London and Edinburgh - one train an hour at four hours eight minutes (the other one will be a bit longer with more stops, as currently). Glad to hear this, it’s been a long time coming. Makes flying to London even less attractive.

Agree it’s good it’s a bit faster, but only 12 minutes faster! You used to be able to do that route regularly under 4 hours and back in the day about 3 1/2 hours. It’s a bit sad when we are cheering a time nearly 45 minutes slower than 20 years ago!

[Biffer]

LNER are finally implementing their faster trains between London and Edinburgh - one train an hour at four hours eight minutes (the other one will be a bit longer with more stops, as currently). Glad to hear this, it’s been a long time coming. Makes flying to London even less attractive.

Agree it’s good it’s a bit faster, but only 12 minutes faster! You used to be able to do that route regularly under 4 hours and back in the day about 3 1/2 hours. It’s a bit sad when we are cheering a time nearly 45 minutes slower than 20 years ago!

Pretty certain you're imagining that. The inter City 125 introduction in the seventies brought it down to four and a half hours. It had been done quicker, but not timetabled that way - only did it in attempts at record times. No way you're buying a ticket for it.

There's a four hour service at 0540 each day that only stops at Newcastle, that's the fastest one you can buy a ticket for.

[Slick]

LNER are finally implementing their faster trains between London and Edinburgh - one train an hour at four hours eight minutes (the other one will be a bit longer with more stops, as currently). Glad to hear this, it’s been a long time coming. Makes flying to London even less attractive.

Agree it’s good it’s a bit faster, but only 12 minutes faster! You used to be able to do that route regularly under 4 hours and back in the day about 3 1/2 hours. It’s a bit sad when we are cheering a time nearly 45 minutes slower than 20 years ago!

Pretty certain you're imagining that. The inter City 125 introduction in the seventies brought it down to four and a half hours. It had been done quicker, but not timetabled that way - only did it in attempts at record times. No way you're buying a ticket for it.

There's a four hour service at 0540 each day that only stops at Newcastle, that's the fastest one you can buy a ticket for.

I thought there used to be a regular non stop, but wouldn’t want a bet on it!

[Slick]

LNER are finally implementing their faster trains between London and Edinburgh - one train an hour at four hours eight minutes (the other one will be a bit longer with more stops, as currently). Glad to hear this, it’s been a long time coming. Makes flying to London even less attractive.

Agree it’s good it’s a bit faster, but only 12 minutes faster! You used to be able to do that route regularly under 4 hours and back in the day about 3 1/2 hours. It’s a bit sad when we are cheering a time nearly 45 minutes slower than 20 years ago!

Pretty certain you're imagining that. The inter City 125 introduction in the seventies brought it down to four and a half hours. It had been done quicker, but not timetabled that way - only did it in attempts at record times. No way you're buying a ticket for it.

There's a four hour service at 0540 each day that only stops at Newcastle, that's the fastest one you can buy a ticket for.

Having looked at a rail enthusiast’s forum, it does indeed seem I am talking bollocks, apologies

[SaintK]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

Nicola Sturgeon has announced her divorce from her long-term partner Peter Murrell, who was previously the chief executive of the Scottish National party.
Their decision to split is not unexpected: it is understood Sturgeon moved out of the couple’s home in Baillieston, Glasgow, after Murrell was arrested and later charged last year over the alleged embezzlement of donations to the SNP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

[Tichtheid]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

Nicola Sturgeon has announced her divorce from her long-term partner Peter Murrell, who was previously the chief executive of the Scottish National party.
Their decision to split is not unexpected: it is understood Sturgeon moved out of the couple’s home in Baillieston, Glasgow, after Murrell was arrested and later charged last year over the alleged embezzlement of donations to the SNP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

Regarding the embezzlement thing - does anyone have further info on this?

The last time I read about it I couldn't find what the details of the charges were. Prior to that it was said that Murrell had loaned the Party money and there was some discrepancy in that not all of it was paid back to him. Then there was stuff about money that was supposedly ring-fenced for another referendum campaign had been spent on day to day running of the party.

Then the caravan that sat unused on Murrell's mother's drive with about twenty miles on the clock and then an Amazon list, but that was the party officials as a whole rather than Murrell.

[tc27]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

Nicola Sturgeon has announced her divorce from her long-term partner Peter Murrell, who was previously the chief executive of the Scottish National party.
Their decision to split is not unexpected: it is understood Sturgeon moved out of the couple’s home in Baillieston, Glasgow, after Murrell was arrested and later charged last year over the alleged embezzlement of donations to the SNP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

Stand by for a stunning and brave further annoucement statement and thus one of the biggest open secrets in Scottish politics finally being made public.

[Slick]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

Nicola Sturgeon has announced her divorce from her long-term partner Peter Murrell, who was previously the chief executive of the Scottish National party.
Their decision to split is not unexpected: it is understood Sturgeon moved out of the couple’s home in Baillieston, Glasgow, after Murrell was arrested and later charged last year over the alleged embezzlement of donations to the SNP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

Stand by for a stunning and brave further annoucement statement and thus one of the biggest open secrets in Scottish politics finally being made public.

I couldn't give two hoots about her sexuality or personal relationships but couldn't help but be a little bit disappointed if after all her support of the LGBT community it turns out she has been hiding it for years.

[Slick]

On a separate note, what's peoples opinions on this drug taking centre thing? Seems a bit mad IMO, although maybe worth giving a try on a small basis.

[inactionman]

On a separate note, what's peoples opinions on this drug taking centre thing? Seems a bit mad IMO, although maybe worth giving a try on a small basis.

The evidence behind them is encouraging, even though they do sound contradictory - it's reasonable to ask how it helps users to actively make taking drugs easier.

The main drivers are making sure users don't overdose, don't risk infections, and - critically from a dependency perspective - don't fall through the cracks in terms of accessing help with managing addiction or broader health and support services. Many of these people will have chaotic lives and it's hard for support services to engage with them.

Ultimately, you can't really protect or start to help these people if they're shooting up in derelict tenement flats, or if they're criminalised for feeding what is at its heart a debilitating illness.

Some analysis here, from the European Union Drug Agency - a bt dated but gives a view:
https://www.euda.europa.eu/system/files ... 0rooms.pdf

[Tichtheid]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

Stand by for a stunning and brave further annoucement statement and thus one of the biggest open secrets in Scottish politics finally being made public.

I couldn't give two hoots about her sexuality or personal relationships but couldn't help but be a little bit disappointed if after all her support of the LGBT community it turns out she has been hiding it for years.

Obviously, like everyone else I have no idea of the veracity of the rumours and I couldn't care less about the personal life of a politician unless they are doing something illegal or are being hypocritical - if politician A is publicly against something and secretly doing it themselves then they deserve derision.

However, there is no right or wrong way to live one's life wrt this, unfortunately we still live in a culture where someone can and will be ashamed of something like being gay or has any number of reasons for not making public their orientation. No one has the right to demand that someone is out, that is an entirely personal decision (I'm not suggesting you are demanding this, btw).
No one has to be a poster boy or poster girl or poster person for anything, it's their life, let them choose to live how they want.

If it turns out that a high profile politician is gay and has chosen to keep it secret, that is their own business and anyone who would make political capital out of it is the lowest piece of shit imaginable. Unless of course that person has been an enemy of Dorothy, if I can put it that way.

[Blackmac]

On a separate note, what's peoples opinions on this drug taking centre thing? Seems a bit mad IMO, although maybe worth giving a try on a small basis.

I'm all for it. Not sure how beneficial it will be though as overall the SG drug policies are a stain on the nation.

[Blackmac]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

Nicola Sturgeon has announced her divorce from her long-term partner Peter Murrell, who was previously the chief executive of the Scottish National party.
Their decision to split is not unexpected: it is understood Sturgeon moved out of the couple’s home in Baillieston, Glasgow, after Murrell was arrested and later charged last year over the alleged embezzlement of donations to the SNP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

Regarding the embezzlement thing - does anyone have further info on this?

The last time I read about it I couldn't find what the details of the charges were. Prior to that it was said that Murrell had loaned the Party money and there was some discrepancy in that not all of it was paid back to him. Then there was stuff about money that was supposedly ring-fenced for another referendum campaign had been spent on day to day running of the party.

Then the caravan that sat unused on Murrell's mother's drive with about twenty miles on the clock and then an Amazon list, but that was the party officials as a whole rather than Murrell.

I'm afraid I have absolutely no idea what is going on and find the length of time to conclude the enquiry to be ridiculous. I do know that Police Scotland are incredibly frustrated by the lack of direction and support being provided by COPFS.

As a detective I spent most of my career trying to avoid fraud and embezzlement cases so I'm far from an expert and I was surprised to find that it can be considered a crime to actively raise money for a specific purpose and then use it for another purpose without the consent of the donors.

[inactionman]

Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell divorcing.
More charges incoming for Murrell?

Nicola Sturgeon has announced her divorce from her long-term partner Peter Murrell, who was previously the chief executive of the Scottish National party.
Their decision to split is not unexpected: it is understood Sturgeon moved out of the couple’s home in Baillieston, Glasgow, after Murrell was arrested and later charged last year over the alleged embezzlement of donations to the SNP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... arriage

As some wags have said, at least she's finally getting her independence

[Slick]

Stand by for a stunning and brave further annoucement statement and thus one of the biggest open secrets in Scottish politics finally being made public.

I couldn't give two hoots about her sexuality or personal relationships but couldn't help but be a little bit disappointed if after all her support of the LGBT community it turns out she has been hiding it for years.

Obviously, like everyone else I have no idea of the veracity of the rumours and I couldn't care less about the personal life of a politician unless they are doing something illegal or are being hypocritical - if politician A is publicly against something and secretly doing it themselves then they deserve derision.

However, there is no right or wrong way to live one's life wrt this, unfortunately we still live in a culture where someone can and will be ashamed of something like being gay or has any number of reasons for not making public their orientation. No one has the right to demand that someone is out, that is an entirely personal decision (I'm not suggesting you are demanding this, btw).
No one has to be a poster boy or poster girl or poster person for anything, it's their life, let them choose to live how they want.

If it turns out that a high profile politician is gay and has chosen to keep it secret, that is their own business and anyone who would make political capital out of it is the lowest piece of shit imaginable. Unless of course that person has been an enemy of Dorothy, if I can put it that way.

Good post mate. And yes, certainly wasn’t demanding it

[Slick]

I see Stephen Flynn has asked in the HoC that Hogg gets his MBE taken off him.

Think I agree he probably should.

Seems a slightly odd thing for Flynn to be getting involved in though. And of course always dangerous for any MP to be taking the moral high ground particularly given his support for sexual predator Patrick Grady on several occasions

[Slick]

This isn’t necessarily an SG moan, but I got a train this morning to Aberdeen. There was a last minute change of train so seat numbers went out the window, no charging points working, WiFi not working and was 20 minutes late. Cost me £70 for the return

When we got to Aberdeen only about 30 folk got off the train, there must have been more than 30 people traveling between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

How the hell are we going to get people off the road when it’s cheaper and quicker to drive and nothing advertised on the train works. It’s shit really

[Tichtheid]

This isn’t necessarily an SG moan, but I got a train this morning to Aberdeen. There was a last minute change of train so seat numbers went out the window, no charging points working, WiFi not working and was 20 minutes late. Cost me £70 for the return

When we got to Aberdeen only about 30 folk got off the train, there must have been more than 30 people traveling between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

How the hell are we going to get people off the road when it’s cheaper and quicker to drive and nothing advertised on the train works. It’s shit really

Trains are my favourite way to travel but the state of the railways in the UK is appalling. I've recommended this program a couple of times - the malaise is everywhere in the UK, this is a must-see if anyone is interested in the subjects of train travel, alternatives to cars etc - it only really points out the problems, but that is where we have to start if we are going to get anywhere

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/ben ... y-disaster

[Slick]

This isn’t necessarily an SG moan, but I got a train this morning to Aberdeen. There was a last minute change of train so seat numbers went out the window, no charging points working, WiFi not working and was 20 minutes late. Cost me £70 for the return

When we got to Aberdeen only about 30 folk got off the train, there must have been more than 30 people traveling between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

How the hell are we going to get people off the road when it’s cheaper and quicker to drive and nothing advertised on the train works. It’s shit really

Trains are my favourite way to travel but the state of the railways in the UK is appalling. I've recommended this program a couple of times - the malaise is everywhere in the UK, this is a must-see if anyone is interested in the subjects of train travel, alternatives to cars etc - it only really points out the problems, but that is where we have to start if we are going to get anywhere

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/ben ... y-disaster

Oh yeah, it’s definitely not restricted to ScotRail. I use LNER very regularly and I don’t think I’ve had a single trip where the WiFi has worked consistently

[Tichtheid]

This isn’t necessarily an SG moan, but I got a train this morning to Aberdeen. There was a last minute change of train so seat numbers went out the window, no charging points working, WiFi not working and was 20 minutes late. Cost me £70 for the return

When we got to Aberdeen only about 30 folk got off the train, there must have been more than 30 people traveling between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

How the hell are we going to get people off the road when it’s cheaper and quicker to drive and nothing advertised on the train works. It’s shit really

Trains are my favourite way to travel but the state of the railways in the UK is appalling. I've recommended this program a couple of times - the malaise is everywhere in the UK, this is a must-see if anyone is interested in the subjects of train travel, alternatives to cars etc - it only really points out the problems, but that is where we have to start if we are going to get anywhere

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/ben ... y-disaster

Oh yeah, it’s definitely not restricted to ScotRail. I use LNER very regularly and I don’t think I’ve had a single trip where the WiFi has worked consistently

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

[Slick]

Trains are my favourite way to travel but the state of the railways in the UK is appalling. I've recommended this program a couple of times - the malaise is everywhere in the UK, this is a must-see if anyone is interested in the subjects of train travel, alternatives to cars etc - it only really points out the problems, but that is where we have to start if we are going to get anywhere

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/ben ... y-disaster

Oh yeah, it’s definitely not restricted to ScotRail. I use LNER very regularly and I don’t think I’ve had a single trip where the WiFi has worked consistently

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

[robmatic]

Oh yeah, it’s definitely not restricted to ScotRail. I use LNER very regularly and I don’t think I’ve had a single trip where the WiFi has worked consistently

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

Timewise, I always thought that rail and flights between Edinburgh and London were broadly similar anyway once you factor in schlepping out to the airport and then making your way into central London. I feel that with business travel there is a prestige factor in play though: there is a breed of manager who feel important because they "had to fly to London this week".

[Slick]

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

Timewise, I always thought that rail and flights between Edinburgh and London were broadly similar anyway once you factor in schlepping out to the airport and then making your way into central London. I feel that with business travel there is a prestige factor in play though: there is a breed of manager who feel important because they "had to fly to London this week".

From central Edinburgh to central London it’s pretty much the same. But justifying sitting on a train for 4 1/2 hours with no WiFi is quite difficult for a lot of people

[Blackmac]

Oh yeah, it’s definitely not restricted to ScotRail. I use LNER very regularly and I don’t think I’ve had a single trip where the WiFi has worked consistently

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

The prices are eye watering though, unless you can book 3 months in advance. I had a last minute trip to London last year and the cheapest train was just under £300.

[Paddington Bear]

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

The prices are eye watering though, unless you can book 3 months in advance. I had a last minute trip to London last year and the cheapest train was just under £300.

I’ve never paid more than £100 return London - Edinburgh. Glasgow tends to be more expensive and of course a longer train so flying is generally the better option