Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[Paddington Bear]

Do you think the scale of the outcry is the same when it's Labour in opposition and it's the Guardian calling out the government, as opposed to the print media that back the Tories?

To take a not totally dissimilar issue, when the Tories hiked tuition fees it provoked mass demonstrations and dominated the news for weeks, possibly months.

What you’re alluding to only really works if you consider that the newspapers have the power they did 30/40 years ago, with the exception of the FT they’re dying on their arse, circulations are a shadow of their former selves.

Completely off topic... are you going to the club on Saturday for the Christmas lunch? I'll be down and making an appearance.

Unfortunately not - I’m heading to my in laws for Christmas that morning. Dad I’m fairly sure will be there though

[petej]

Water bills going up 30% big increase but not big enough to save the companies. What a fudge.

Water bills up, unemployment up, growth down, tax on businesses up polling well down. Good start for Starmer, almost as if a plan for government would've helped.

The way money has been extracted from the public for water and then we will also eventually pick up the debt loaded on these companies is an absolute con.

At least the Gov are dealing with the legacy they inherited ie Post Office, Infected Blood, etc and doing it in their first year in power. Best time to take unpopular decisions!

Very little excuse for not dealing with those.

[Sandstorm]

Water bills going up 30% big increase but not big enough to save the companies. What a fudge.

Water bills up, unemployment up, growth down, tax on businesses up polling well down. Good start for Starmer, almost as if a plan for government would've helped.

The way money has been extracted from the public for water and then we will also eventually pick up the debt loaded on these companies is an absolute con.

Word. At the very least they should have nationalised the Water Companies so we have some assets to show for all that debt.

[dpedin]

Water bills going up 30% big increase but not big enough to save the companies. What a fudge.

Water bills up, unemployment up, growth down, tax on businesses up polling well down. Good start for Starmer, almost as if a plan for government would've helped.

The way money has been extracted from the public for water and then we will also eventually pick up the debt loaded on these companies is an absolute con.

Word. At the very least they should have nationalised the Water Companies so we have some assets to show for all that debt.

Provision of clean drinking water and the safe collection, treatment and disposal of waste is an essential public health function of any Gov, it is part of their core business. This has been the case in the UK since John Snow, founder of what we now know as Public Health, discovered the link between cholera in London and contamination of drinking water by sewage in 1850s. This led to vast investment in water and sewage systems by the Victorians onwards. No other country in the world has privatized their entire water and sewage system as has happened in England. The has been made even worse by a completely ineffectual regulator and too many cosy links between Tory MPs and investors. We have seen through Covid what happens when profit is put before public health. The Gov has to prioritize bringing water and sewage systems back into public ownership as a public health priority. Water and sewage cannot ever be seen as a profit making exercise at the cost of harm to the individuals, the population, the environment, etc.

[Paddington Bear]

And there’s a fine Sam Smith’s pub in Soho named after him should you ever wish to toast his memory!

[Sandstorm]

And there’s a fine Sam Smith’s pub in Soho named after him should you ever wish to toast his memory!

I've had a few in there

[Biffer]

And there’s a fine Sam Smith’s pub in Soho named after him should you ever wish to toast his memory!

Great long read in the guardian recently about Sam smiths brewery and pubs, and more particularly the CEO, Humphrey Smith

[SaintK]

And there’s a fine Sam Smith’s pub in Soho named after him should you ever wish to toast his memory!

Great long read in the guardian recently about Sam smiths brewery and pubs, and more particularly the CEO, Humphrey Smith

Stopped reading it halfway through. He sounded like a complete and utter tosser.
Never really liked Sam Smith's beers either

[Biffer]

And there’s a fine Sam Smith’s pub in Soho named after him should you ever wish to toast his memory!

Great long read in the guardian recently about Sam smiths brewery and pubs, and more particularly the CEO, Humphrey Smith

Stopped reading it halfway through. He sounded like a complete and utter tosser.
Never really liked Sam Smith's beers either

I just have him down as weird

[Paddington Bear]

Great long read in the guardian recently about Sam smiths brewery and pubs, and more particularly the CEO, Humphrey Smith

Stopped reading it halfway through. He sounded like a complete and utter tosser.
Never really liked Sam Smith's beers either

I just have him down as weird

Funnily enough it was the article that prompted my post.

There’s space in a cultural type business like the pub trade for a weird eccentric doing things the old way, but he just comes across as an arse willing to play with other people’s lives.

His son has run their London operation for a bit and whilst he’s jacked the prices, they hit a much better balance of old school vs plain weird down here, so hopefully there’ll be more common sense with him in charge

[Tichtheid]

It’s no doubt confected but that’s the nature of opposition- you get to play these games. Of course they can bite you on the arse when you’re in government, as Starmer and Kendall are finding. They should never have pandered to a joke of a campaign in the first place

Do you think the scale of the outcry is the same when it's Labour in opposition and it's the Guardian calling out the government, as opposed to the print media that back the Tories?

To take a not totally dissimilar issue, when the Tories hiked tuition fees it provoked mass demonstrations and dominated the news for weeks, possibly months.

What you’re alluding to only really works if you consider that the newspapers have the power they did 30/40 years ago, with the exception of the FT they’re dying on their arse, circulations are a shadow of their former selves.

Can I take your refusal to answer the question as agreement that the scale is different for the two parties?

I don't really remember much about the increase in tuition fees and mass demonstrations to be honest, that probably says more about me and my memory than anything though. I do remember that Labour faced the biggest show of disapproval seen on UK streets over Iraq, but I'm not sure they faced the same rough ride in the press, which constantly downplayed numbers.

There were Just Stop Oil protesters who were jailed for 5 years and got vilified in the press. The recent people in tractors who blocked London streets whilst reportedly driving over a police block got full throated support in the same press as saw the outrage at the environmental campaigners.

I don't believe that these media outlets have no influence at all, the politicians and their backers wouldn't bother with them if they truly were inconsequential - why start GB news for example?

[Paddington Bear]

Do you think the scale of the outcry is the same when it's Labour in opposition and it's the Guardian calling out the government, as opposed to the print media that back the Tories?

To take a not totally dissimilar issue, when the Tories hiked tuition fees it provoked mass demonstrations and dominated the news for weeks, possibly months.

What you’re alluding to only really works if you consider that the newspapers have the power they did 30/40 years ago, with the exception of the FT they’re dying on their arse, circulations are a shadow of their former selves.

Can I take your refusal to answer the question as agreement that the scale is different for the two parties?

I don't really remember much about the increase in tuition fees and mass demonstrations to be honest, that probably says more about me and my memory than anything though. I do remember that Labour faced the biggest show of disapproval seen on UK streets over Iraq, but I'm not sure they faced the same rough ride in the press, which constantly downplayed numbers.

There were Just Stop Oil protesters who were jailed for 5 years and got vilified in the press. The recent people in tractors who blocked London streets whilst reportedly driving over a police block got full throated support in the same press as saw the outrage at the environmental campaigners.

I don't believe that these media outlets have no influence at all, the politicians and their backers wouldn't bother with them if they truly were inconsequential - why start GB news for example?

This is a bizarre response - I have answered your question by reference to a similar scandal that caused uproar and referenced newspapers not the tv?

[Tichtheid]

To take a not totally dissimilar issue, when the Tories hiked tuition fees it provoked mass demonstrations and dominated the news for weeks, possibly months.

What you’re alluding to only really works if you consider that the newspapers have the power they did 30/40 years ago, with the exception of the FT they’re dying on their arse, circulations are a shadow of their former selves.

Can I take your refusal to answer the question as agreement that the scale is different for the two parties?

I don't really remember much about the increase in tuition fees and mass demonstrations to be honest, that probably says more about me and my memory than anything though. I do remember that Labour faced the biggest show of disapproval seen on UK streets over Iraq, but I'm not sure they faced the same rough ride in the press, which constantly downplayed numbers.

There were Just Stop Oil protesters who were jailed for 5 years and got vilified in the press. The recent people in tractors who blocked London streets whilst reportedly driving over a police block got full throated support in the same press as saw the outrage at the environmental campaigners.

I don't believe that these media outlets have no influence at all, the politicians and their backers wouldn't bother with them if they truly were inconsequential - why start GB news for example?

This is a bizarre response - I have answered your question by reference to a similar scandal that caused uproar and referenced newspapers not the tv?

TV is old media in the same way the print journalism is - it's not that bizarre when you didn't answer what I asked and instead take about a different incident.

[Paddington Bear]

Can I take your refusal to answer the question as agreement that the scale is different for the two parties?

I don't really remember much about the increase in tuition fees and mass demonstrations to be honest, that probably says more about me and my memory than anything though. I do remember that Labour faced the biggest show of disapproval seen on UK streets over Iraq, but I'm not sure they faced the same rough ride in the press, which constantly downplayed numbers.

There were Just Stop Oil protesters who were jailed for 5 years and got vilified in the press. The recent people in tractors who blocked London streets whilst reportedly driving over a police block got full throated support in the same press as saw the outrage at the environmental campaigners.

I don't believe that these media outlets have no influence at all, the politicians and their backers wouldn't bother with them if they truly were inconsequential - why start GB news for example?

This is a bizarre response - I have answered your question by reference to a similar scandal that caused uproar and referenced newspapers not the tv?

TV is old media in the same way the print journalism is - it's not that bizarre when you didn't answer what I asked and instead take about a different incident.

Your specific question was:

‘ Do you think the scale of the outcry is the same when it's Labour in opposition and it's the Guardian calling out the government, as opposed to the print media that back the Tories?’

So I used an example of larger outcry under the Tories. You may not agree with or like my answer but you can’t honestly say I haven’t answered it.

On tv - I haven’t watched the news since covid so have no interest, again I specifically mentioned newspapers not tv

[Tichtheid]

So I used an example of larger outcry under the Tories. You may not agree with or like my answer but you can’t honestly say I haven’t answered it.

Indulge me please, it's not that I don't like your answer, it's just honestly not terribly clear to me what your answer is.

Do you think the scale of outcry in the print media is the same for both parties?

[Paddington Bear]

So I used an example of larger outcry under the Tories. You may not agree with or like my answer but you can’t honestly say I haven’t answered it.

Indulge me please, it's not that I don't like your answer, it's just honestly not terribly clear to me what your answer is.

Do you think the scale of outcry in the print media is the same for both parties?

The question there is a subtle moving of the goalposts.

There are more right leaning papers than left, but this is more than made up for by (particularly at the time) social media leaning more left than right, which brings its own moral outrages and influence on politics.

I can’t see how you can look at the last Tory government and claim there wasn’t large scale outcry at large amounts of the things they did, even if the Telegraph went down with the ship (it’s only read by a minuscule proportion of the electorate anyway)

[Tichtheid]

So I used an example of larger outcry under the Tories. You may not agree with or like my answer but you can’t honestly say I haven’t answered it.

Indulge me please, it's not that I don't like your answer, it's just honestly not terribly clear to me what your answer is.

Do you think the scale of outcry in the print media is the same for both parties?

The question there is a subtle moving of the goalposts.

Is there?

Do you think the scale of the outcry is the same when it's Labour in opposition and it's the Guardian calling out the government, as opposed to the print media that back the Tories?

Do you think the scale of outcry in the print media is the same for both parties?

No goal post shift.

There are more right leaning papers than left, but this is more than made up for by (particularly at the time) social media leaning more left than right, which brings its own moral outrages and influence on politics.

There are many examples of social media lurching to the right, from QAnon, Musk at Twitter, Trump's own media, the right wing newspapers having their own online presence, Guido Fox etc. There are claims and counter claims of political bias on Facebook, but that is more likely to be subject to self-selecting algorithms

I can’t see how you can look at the last Tory government and claim there wasn’t large scale outcry at large amounts of the things they did, even if the Telegraph went down with the ship (it’s only read by a minuscule proportion of the electorate anyway)

It had to get to the stage where Boris Johnson metaphorically pulled down his zip and urinated in public at the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral and we got an unhinged Chicago School loon who shot a cannon through the hull of the Good Ship UK below the waterline before there was genuine outcry and even then the print media I'm asking about backed them - they didn't seem to give a monkeys about the corruption in the covid procurement process.

There is in no way the same scale of outcry against the two parties.

There was a short period during the pandemic where Piers Morgan seemed like the only adult in the ITV/BBC tv media - that is how bad things were

[Biffer]

Stopped reading it halfway through. He sounded like a complete and utter tosser.
Never really liked Sam Smith's beers either

I just have him down as weird

Funnily enough it was the article that prompted my post.

There’s space in a cultural type business like the pub trade for a weird eccentric doing things the old way, but he just comes across as an arse willing to play with other people’s lives.

His son has run their London operation for a bit and whilst he’s jacked the prices, they hit a much better balance of old school vs plain weird down here, so hopefully there’ll be more common sense with him in charge

According to the article he's stepping down in the next few months, so hopefully if his son is taking over that attitude might take over the rest of their pubs, and look to regenerate some of the old ones that have been mothballed for decades. They have some fantastic locations that would make Tim Martin wank himself into a frenzy, so it's a fundamentally good business.

[dpedin]

Indulge me please, it's not that I don't like your answer, it's just honestly not terribly clear to me what your answer is.

Do you think the scale of outcry in the print media is the same for both parties?

The question there is a subtle moving of the goalposts.

Is there?

Do you think the scale of the outcry is the same when it's Labour in opposition and it's the Guardian calling out the government, as opposed to the print media that back the Tories?

Do you think the scale of outcry in the print media is the same for both parties?

No goal post shift.

There are more right leaning papers than left, but this is more than made up for by (particularly at the time) social media leaning more left than right, which brings its own moral outrages and influence on politics.

There are many examples of social media lurching to the right, from QAnon, Musk at Twitter, Trump's own media, the right wing newspapers having their own online presence, Guido Fox etc. There are claims and counter claims of political bias on Facebook, but that is more likely to be subject to self-selecting algorithms

I can’t see how you can look at the last Tory government and claim there wasn’t large scale outcry at large amounts of the things they did, even if the Telegraph went down with the ship (it’s only read by a minuscule proportion of the electorate anyway)

It had to get to the stage where Boris Johnson metaphorically pulled down his zip and urinated in public at the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral and we got an unhinged Chicago School loon who shot a cannon through the hull of the Good Ship UK below the waterline before there was genuine outcry and even then the print media I'm asking about backed them - they didn't seem to give a monkeys about the corruption in the covid procurement process.

There is in no way the same scale of outcry against the two parties.

There was a short period during the pandemic where Piers Morgan seemed like the only adult in the ITV/BBC tv media - that is how bad things were

90% of UK print media is owned by three companies - REACH plc, News UK and DMG Media. Reach is a publicly traded plc with mostly big investment houses with largest holding, News UK is part of the Rupert Murdoch empire and DMG is essentially run by Viscount Rothmere via offshore trusts and he lives in France for tax purposes. I think it is fair to suggest that the majority of these interests are more right than left leaning? Whilst the print media is becoming less influential it still sets the agenda for much of the political news ie BBC Newsnight always run a what the papers say as do many other tv shows. This allows the likes of Rothmere and Murdoch to strongly influence much of what is discussed as 'news' ie witness the groundless attacks on Rayner for her trip to Ibiza or her so called CGT avoidance for her house sale. None of this was news but it was deliberate attempt via the print media to attack/smear the politicians they didnt like early in their Gov - it is all about setting the scene, pushing the public conversation in the direction they wanted. It was almost a shot or two across the bows of Labour to say we can come for you any time we want!

[dpedin]

Whilst the UK press continue to target HoL and Mandelson appointments and WASPI Women the Gov is quietly getting on with doing the job - see attached article. You could also add the Bus Services Bill and the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill, including a register for home schooled kids, from this week. It is interesting how little the UK press is reporting what is a wide range of key Gov actions.

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/12/20/labo ... explained/

[Clancloch]

Re Sam Smiths

Havng drunk in Soho for many years and being good friends with ex Sam Snith managers I can assure you that the Guardian piece absolutely down plays the weirdness.
Dreadful pubs completely lacking in atmosphere-no music/wi-fi/no screens, shocking beer and stout (its one attribute pre covid was its cheapness) -now more ecpensive than Spoons which have nicked a lot of their trade .
Thete decor is nice but in Soho its always always been about the craic and they have zero.

[SaintK]

Re Sam Smiths

Havng drunk in Soho for many years and being good friends with ex Sam Snith managers I can assure you that the Guardian piece absolutely down plays the weirdness.
Dreadful pubs completely lacking in atmosphere-no music/wi-fi/no screens, shocking beer and stout (its one attribute pre covid was its cheapness) -now more ecpensive than Spoons which have nicked a lot of their trade .
Thete decor is nice but in Soho its always always been about the craic and they have zero.

Fuck off noob!!!
Totally agree. Stopped drinking in Smiths pubs years ago. Nicholson pubs only marginally better though have decent beer
Welcome

[sockwithaticket]

90% of UK print media is owned by three companies - REACH plc, News UK and DMG Media. Reach is a publicly traded plc with mostly big investment houses with largest holding, News UK is part of the Rupert Murdoch empire and DMG is essentially run by Viscount Rothmere via offshore trusts and he lives in France for tax purposes. I think it is fair to suggest that the majority of these interests are more right than left leaning? Whilst the print media is becoming less influential it still sets the agenda for much of the political news ie BBC Newsnight always run a what the papers say as do many other tv shows. This allows the likes of Rothmere and Murdoch to strongly influence much of what is discussed as 'news' ie witness the groundless attacks on Rayner for her trip to Ibiza or her so called CGT avoidance for her house sale. None of this was news but it was deliberate attempt via the print media to attack/smear the politicians they didnt like early in their Gov - it is all about setting the scene, pushing the public conversation in the direction they wanted. It was almost a shot or two across the bows of Labour to say we can come for you any time we want!

Plus even a lot of the less partial or partial in the other direction media and press is more interested in Westminster soap opera stuff than policy and bills. The actual work of governance bores them unless they can spin it into a sensational headline.

[Paddington Bear]

Anti-corruption minister latest:

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/18 ... 4306473461

[Slick]

Anti-corruption minister latest:

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/18 ... 4306473461

Just been reading this in the ST, staggering

[lemonhead]

Re Sam Smiths

Havng drunk in Soho for many years and being good friends with ex Sam Snith managers I can assure you that the Guardian piece absolutely down plays the weirdness.
Dreadful pubs completely lacking in atmosphere-no music/wi-fi/no screens, shocking beer and stout (its one attribute pre covid was its cheapness) -now more ecpensive than Spoons which have nicked a lot of their trade .
Thete decor is nice but in Soho its always always been about the craic and they have zero.

Not based in London anymore but would still pop into one of an afternoon if I need a quick break from trudging the streets. Quiet, undisturbed pint and then off again.

But yeah, spending an evening there would very much depend on bringing your social scene along with you.

[robmatic]

Anti-corruption minister latest:

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/18 ... 4306473461

Wow, that is pretty brazen. Is there no sort of vetting for people being appointed as ministers?

[Paddington Bear]

Anti-corruption minister latest:

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/18 ... 4306473461

Wow, that is pretty brazen. Is there no sort of vetting for people being appointed as ministers?

Siddiq has a long history of intimidating journalists and/or playing the race card in response to her links to the Awami League, I dare say she had some community backing until they got deposed last year.

Cf https://x.com/daisyayliffe/status/1875888621921898944

[Slick]

Anti-corruption minister latest:

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/18 ... 4306473461

Wow, that is pretty brazen. Is there no sort of vetting for people being appointed as ministers?

Siddiq has a long history of intimidating journalists and/or playing the race card in response to her links to the Awami League, I dare say she had some community backing until they got deposed last year.

Cf https://x.com/daisyayliffe/status/1875888621921898944

Was that the woman where she also threatened her unborn baby?

[Tichtheid]

The Tulip Siddiq saga shows just how naïve Labour is


https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tulip-siddi ... ve-3463183

[Paddington Bear]

Wow, that is pretty brazen. Is there no sort of vetting for people being appointed as ministers?

Siddiq has a long history of intimidating journalists and/or playing the race card in response to her links to the Awami League, I dare say she had some community backing until they got deposed last year.

Cf https://x.com/daisyayliffe/status/1875888621921898944

Was that the woman where she also threatened her unborn baby?

Forgot about that, quite possibly.

Agree with the article Ticht posted

[Paddington Bear]

Siddiq has now self-reported to Ministerial Standards, and will continue as anti-corruption minister whilst under investigation for corruption in two countries. Grimly funny

[tabascoboy]

Siddiq has now self-reported to Ministerial Standards, and will continue as anti-corruption minister whilst under investigation for corruption in two countries. Grimly funny

Yet another 'The Thick of it' moment

[Sandstorm]

Siddiq has now self-reported to Ministerial Standards, and will continue as anti-corruption minister whilst under investigation for corruption in two countries. Grimly funny

[I like neeps]

Siddiq has now self-reported to Ministerial Standards, and will continue as anti-corruption minister whilst under investigation for corruption in two countries. Grimly funny

She should be sacked by Starmer immediately. He won't though, too busy in an unwinnable feud with Musk.

[sturginho]

Siddiq has now self-reported to Ministerial Standards, and will continue as anti-corruption minister whilst under investigation for corruption in two countries. Grimly funny

Yet another 'The Thick of it' moment

We are a deeply unserious country

[Yeeb]

The Tulip Siddiq saga shows just how naïve Labour is


https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tulip-siddi ... ve-3463183

Yup, totally dissimilar ….

U plum joker

[Yeeb]

Siddiq has now self-reported to Ministerial Standards, and will continue as anti-corruption minister whilst under investigation for corruption in two countries. Grimly funny

Yet another 'The Thick of it' moment

We are a deeply unserious country

8===> - - -

[Paddington Bear]

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1876633123817214032

16% approval rating to start the year - tough track to bat on even with a stonking majority. Will be interesting to see how they play this out

[Sandstorm]

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1876633123817214032

16% approval rating to start the year - tough track to bat on even with a stonking majority. Will be interesting to see how they play this out

Starmer started strongly by clamping down hard on the rioters and chucking them in jail, then went back to the normal pissing-in-the-wind we expect from politicians soon after.