President Trump and US politics catchall

[Paddington Bear]

Look at all these tarrifs !

Meanwhile musk goes into federal agencies with his bunch of incel acolytes and gets root access to the payment systems.

It may seem like tin foil stuff. It looks like a technocratic coup to me.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-a ... nt-system/

America as a democracy is done.

Can’t see how this threatens democracy - Trump won the election and has the right therefore to send his cronies in to run the government. Pretty much the purpose of voting to change a nation’s leader

No he doesn't.

Poor understanding of the way US government is set up. It was deliberately done to prevent a tyrant being put in charge. Just because you're president doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want - that's a complete lack of comprehension of US government systems.

The more worrying thing is the way Musk and his teenagers are behaving. If you've traveled to the US, or interacted in any way with US govt, they now have your passport / personal data etc, copied off from government systems into personal / private systems. Less secure and these guys are absolutely going to now be the targets of the Chinese, North Korean, Iranian and Russian government.

To clarify - you are saying the US President does *not* have the right to make political appointments within the federal government, and I am the one with the poor understanding of their system of government?

[inactionman]

Can’t see how this threatens democracy - Trump won the election and has the right therefore to send his cronies in to run the government. Pretty much the purpose of voting to change a nation’s leader

No he doesn't.

Poor understanding of the way US government is set up. It was deliberately done to prevent a tyrant being put in charge. Just because you're president doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want - that's a complete lack of comprehension of US government systems.

The more worrying thing is the way Musk and his teenagers are behaving. If you've traveled to the US, or interacted in any way with US govt, they now have your passport / personal data etc, copied off from government systems into personal / private systems. Less secure and these guys are absolutely going to now be the targets of the Chinese, North Korean, Iranian and Russian government.

To clarify - you are saying the US President does *not* have the right to make political appointments within the federal government, and I am the one with the poor understanding of their system of government?

I'm not quite sure that is where the sticking point is. Appointing people to defined positions with specific powers != just unilaterally doing whatever you decide.


The situation is not helped by the ongoing denuding of the legislature and the appointments of idiots simply because they're yes-men, but at least that has a veneer of legality.

[Biffer]

Can’t see how this threatens democracy - Trump won the election and has the right therefore to send his cronies in to run the government. Pretty much the purpose of voting to change a nation’s leader

No he doesn't.

Poor understanding of the way US government is set up. It was deliberately done to prevent a tyrant being put in charge. Just because you're president doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want - that's a complete lack of comprehension of US government systems.

The more worrying thing is the way Musk and his teenagers are behaving. If you've traveled to the US, or interacted in any way with US govt, they now have your passport / personal data etc, copied off from government systems into personal / private systems. Less secure and these guys are absolutely going to now be the targets of the Chinese, North Korean, Iranian and Russian government.

To clarify - you are saying the US President does *not* have the right to make political appointments within the federal government, and I am the one with the poor understanding of their system of government?

You understand that Congress can veto appointments, right?

You understand there's restrictions on who they can then grant access to data to, right?

You understand they can't just do whatever the fuck they like and have to act within the law, right?

[inactionman]

No he doesn't.

Poor understanding of the way US government is set up. It was deliberately done to prevent a tyrant being put in charge. Just because you're president doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want - that's a complete lack of comprehension of US government systems.

The more worrying thing is the way Musk and his teenagers are behaving. If you've traveled to the US, or interacted in any way with US govt, they now have your passport / personal data etc, copied off from government systems into personal / private systems. Less secure and these guys are absolutely going to now be the targets of the Chinese, North Korean, Iranian and Russian government.

To clarify - you are saying the US President does *not* have the right to make political appointments within the federal government, and I am the one with the poor understanding of their system of government?

You understand that Congress can veto appointments, right?

Given some of the utter shitshows in the confirmation hearings that doesn't always seem to work so well.

This for health secretary:

[Paddington Bear]

No he doesn't.

Poor understanding of the way US government is set up. It was deliberately done to prevent a tyrant being put in charge. Just because you're president doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want - that's a complete lack of comprehension of US government systems.

The more worrying thing is the way Musk and his teenagers are behaving. If you've traveled to the US, or interacted in any way with US govt, they now have your passport / personal data etc, copied off from government systems into personal / private systems. Less secure and these guys are absolutely going to now be the targets of the Chinese, North Korean, Iranian and Russian government.

To clarify - you are saying the US President does *not* have the right to make political appointments within the federal government, and I am the one with the poor understanding of their system of government?

You understand that Congress can veto appointments, right?

You understand there's restrictions on who they can then grant access to data to, right?

You understand they can't just do whatever the fuck they like and have to act within the law, right?

The existence of any of this is no barrier to what I’m saying - the President demanding his appointees take control of the books of the executives is entirely reasonable and democratic. Your point on data is understandable, Musk and DOGE were a well publicised part of his campaign and he won. Unless democratic means something entirely different to winning elections, which does appear to be increasingly pushed as a position on the left, it is what it is

[Raggs]

The existence of any of this is no barrier to what I’m saying - the President demanding his appointees take control of the books of the executives is entirely reasonable and democratic. Your point on data is understandable, Musk and DOGE were a well publicised part of his campaign and he won. Unless democratic means something entirely different to winning elections, which does appear to be increasingly pushed as a position on the left, it is what it is

Winning an election doesn't give you unlimited power for 4 years.

Just like many of his appointments require full intelligence vetting and approval from congress/senate etc, you would have expected the same for Musk, who appears to have simply waltzed in, able to grab hugely confidential information etc, without any sort of oversight.

[sockwithaticket]

The various people going through confirmation hearings, however unsuitable they might be, will be going to established roles with defined remits as part of the existing governmental structure. A random appointee who thinks he can do whatever he wants, including accessing any and all data relating to US citizens and disregard conflicts of interest to access financial information from which he personally would stand to directly benefit via his businesses, is unprecdented and not built into their system of government.

Part of the reason Musk is blitzing with his activity and Donnie's handlers are having him sign as many executive orders as they can get in front of him is to push as much shit through as possible before the legal challengese start. And presumably they're hoping to neuter the instruments that would potentially check them by the time those challenges have begun.

[Paddington Bear]

The existence of any of this is no barrier to what I’m saying - the President demanding his appointees take control of the books of the executives is entirely reasonable and democratic. Your point on data is understandable, Musk and DOGE were a well publicised part of his campaign and he won. Unless democratic means something entirely different to winning elections, which does appear to be increasingly pushed as a position on the left, it is what it is

Winning an election doesn't give you unlimited power for 4 years.

Just like many of his appointments require full intelligence vetting and approval from congress/senate etc, you would have expected the same for Musk, who appears to have simply waltzed in, able to grab hugely confidential information etc, without any sort of oversight.

I don’t accept that Trump is wielding unlimited or undemocratic power by ensuring his appointees have access to the financial information of the executive branch.

[Biffer]

The existence of any of this is no barrier to what I’m saying - the President demanding his appointees take control of the books of the executives is entirely reasonable and democratic. Your point on data is understandable, Musk and DOGE were a well publicised part of his campaign and he won. Unless democratic means something entirely different to winning elections, which does appear to be increasingly pushed as a position on the left, it is what it is

Winning an election doesn't give you unlimited power for 4 years.

Just like many of his appointments require full intelligence vetting and approval from congress/senate etc, you would have expected the same for Musk, who appears to have simply waltzed in, able to grab hugely confidential information etc, without any sort of oversight.

I don’t accept that Trump is wielding unlimited or undemocratic power by ensuring his appointees have access to the financial information of the executive branch.

Well that's just not paying attention to what's going on. They're firing employees across government. Their appointees could do that if they're confirmed, but they haven't been. They're closing down and neutering federal agencies. They don't have the right to do that without congressional approval. They're granting data access to people without clearance, and sharing that data into other systems without the required security. These are all outwith the power of the executive to do unilaterally.

It seems you're describing democracy in the same way that the French did during their revolution. That led to tyranny of the majority. If you don't know what that is, go and look it up. And figure out what it led to.

[Paddington Bear]

Winning an election doesn't give you unlimited power for 4 years.

Just like many of his appointments require full intelligence vetting and approval from congress/senate etc, you would have expected the same for Musk, who appears to have simply waltzed in, able to grab hugely confidential information etc, without any sort of oversight.

I don’t accept that Trump is wielding unlimited or undemocratic power by ensuring his appointees have access to the financial information of the executive branch.

Well that's just not paying attention to what's going on. They're firing employees across government. Their appointees could do that if they're confirmed, but they haven't been. They're closing down and neutering federal agencies. They don't have the right to do that without congressional approval. They're granting data access to people without clearance, and sharing that data into other systems without the required security. These are all outwith the power of the executive to do unilaterally.

It seems you're describing democracy in the same way that the French did during their revolution. That led to tyranny of the majority. If you don't know what that is, go and look it up. And figure out what it led to.

Data is a wider point as has already been addressed. I must say I am somewhat impressed that the patronising and overwrought historical analogy reached for with Trump wasn’t Hitler, but I can’t say I see a direct line from the executive having access to financial records they are entitled to and the Terror

[Biffer]

I don’t accept that Trump is wielding unlimited or undemocratic power by ensuring his appointees have access to the financial information of the executive branch.

Well that's just not paying attention to what's going on. They're firing employees across government. Their appointees could do that if they're confirmed, but they haven't been. They're closing down and neutering federal agencies. They don't have the right to do that without congressional approval. They're granting data access to people without clearance, and sharing that data into other systems without the required security. These are all outwith the power of the executive to do unilaterally.

It seems you're describing democracy in the same way that the French did during their revolution. That led to tyranny of the majority. If you don't know what that is, go and look it up. And figure out what it led to.

Data is a wider point as has already been addressed. I must say I am somewhat impressed that the patronising and overwrought historical analogy reached for with Trump wasn’t Hitler, but I can’t say I see a direct line from the executive having access to financial records they are entitled to and the Terror

That's not about data, it's about attitude to democracy and controls on it. But well done for your reductive and simplistic response, again.

And your reply is the problem. You can't see it. Because you don't want to.

[inactionman]

To clarify - you are saying the US President does *not* have the right to make political appointments within the federal government, and I am the one with the poor understanding of their system of government?

You understand that Congress can veto appointments, right?

Given some of the utter shitshows in the confirmation hearings that doesn't always seem to work so well.

This for health secretary:

And Kennedy has - of course - been approved.

[Paddington Bear]

Well that's just not paying attention to what's going on. They're firing employees across government. Their appointees could do that if they're confirmed, but they haven't been. They're closing down and neutering federal agencies. They don't have the right to do that without congressional approval. They're granting data access to people without clearance, and sharing that data into other systems without the required security. These are all outwith the power of the executive to do unilaterally.

It seems you're describing democracy in the same way that the French did during their revolution. That led to tyranny of the majority. If you don't know what that is, go and look it up. And figure out what it led to.

Data is a wider point as has already been addressed. I must say I am somewhat impressed that the patronising and overwrought historical analogy reached for with Trump wasn’t Hitler, but I can’t say I see a direct line from the executive having access to financial records they are entitled to and the Terror

That's not about data, it's about attitude to democracy and controls on it. But well done for your reductive and simplistic response, again.

And your reply is the problem. You can't see it. Because you don't want to.

I’m aware of what you consider the problem to be as you keep repeating it. I’m sorry but I can’t really look beyond the central point of you and others being that the wrong person won the election - I don’t disagree with that but I don’t believe the losers of an election spending 4 years claiming that the other side are anti democratic because they’re doing things they don’t agree with is fair or anything but counter productive.

If we live in democracies a change of government should mean a change in *how* a country is governed as well as *who* governs it, particularly during a period where a central critique of government from both right and left is that the current set ups fail to achieve results.


If you begin making silly comparisons as you did by wafting out the threat of the guillotine then don’t be shocked if people don’t take them particularly seriously, I didn’t bring it into the discussion in the first place and this rubbish got done to death during Trump’s first term where notably he did not reanimate the Third Reich or bring back Robespierre from beyond the grave.

[Slick]

this rubbish got done to death during Trump’s first term where notably he did not reanimate the Third Reich or bring back Robespierre from beyond the grave.

Have to agree with PB on this, some of the stuff on here would be laughed off the bored as conspiracy theory lunacy by the same people saying it, if it wasn't Trump.

[sockwithaticket]

this rubbish got done to death during Trump’s first term where notably he did not reanimate the Third Reich or bring back Robespierre from beyond the grave.

Have to agree with PB on this, some of the stuff on here would be laughed off the bored as conspiracy theory lunacy by the same people saying it, if it wasn't Trump.

I'm pretty sure you've been directed to Project 2025 before. The playbook is out there in the domain and it's architects are in the Trump administration putting it into practice. It's not conspiracy theory if it's actually happening.

[Biffer]

Data is a wider point as has already been addressed. I must say I am somewhat impressed that the patronising and overwrought historical analogy reached for with Trump wasn’t Hitler, but I can’t say I see a direct line from the executive having access to financial records they are entitled to and the Terror

That's not about data, it's about attitude to democracy and controls on it. But well done for your reductive and simplistic response, again.

And your reply is the problem. You can't see it. Because you don't want to.

I’m aware of what you consider the problem to be as you keep repeating it. I’m sorry but I can’t really look beyond the central point of you and others being that the wrong person won the election - I don’t disagree with that but I don’t believe the losers of an election spending 4 years claiming that the other side are anti democratic because they’re doing things they don’t agree with is fair or anything but counter productive.

If we live in democracies a change of government should mean a change in *how* a country is governed as well as *who* governs it, particularly during a period where a central critique of government from both right and left is that the current set ups fail to achieve results.


If you begin making silly comparisons as you did by wafting out the threat of the guillotine then don’t be shocked if people don’t take them particularly seriously, I didn’t bring it into the discussion in the first place and this rubbish got done to death during Trump’s first term where notably he did not reanimate the Third Reich or bring back Robespierre from beyond the grave.

So because I’m left wing, you automatically can’t believe a word I say.

Well done on your open mind.

[Uncle fester]

Look at all these tarrifs !

Meanwhile musk goes into federal agencies with his bunch of incel acolytes and gets root access to the payment systems.

It may seem like tin foil stuff. It looks like a technocratic coup to me.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-a ... nt-system/

America as a democracy is done.

Can’t see how this threatens democracy - Trump won the election and has the right therefore to send his cronies in to run the government. Pretty much the purpose of voting to change a nation’s leader

If you can't see how giving an arbitrary and unelected cünt like Musk control of payroll is dangerous taking into account his previous behaviour, then there's no helping you.

[Yeeb]

These executive orders do have a whiff of emperor palpatine about them

[Guy Smiley]

Arguing the purity of democratic process is hopelessly idealistic... the reality is that the democratic process has been hijacked by wealth and influence for years now and Trump as a brand is the ultimate expression of that so far. It's arguable that he has stolen this election victory through the cooperation of Musk and others anyway, so the purity of democratic process is a pipe dream, a fantasy indulged by those who back the winning side.

it's hopelessly one eyed.

[Paddington Bear]

That's not about data, it's about attitude to democracy and controls on it. But well done for your reductive and simplistic response, again.

And your reply is the problem. You can't see it. Because you don't want to.

I’m aware of what you consider the problem to be as you keep repeating it. I’m sorry but I can’t really look beyond the central point of you and others being that the wrong person won the election - I don’t disagree with that but I don’t believe the losers of an election spending 4 years claiming that the other side are anti democratic because they’re doing things they don’t agree with is fair or anything but counter productive.

If we live in democracies a change of government should mean a change in *how* a country is governed as well as *who* governs it, particularly during a period where a central critique of government from both right and left is that the current set ups fail to achieve results.


If you begin making silly comparisons as you did by wafting out the threat of the guillotine then don’t be shocked if people don’t take them particularly seriously, I didn’t bring it into the discussion in the first place and this rubbish got done to death during Trump’s first term where notably he did not reanimate the Third Reich or bring back Robespierre from beyond the grave.

So because I’m left wing, you automatically can’t believe a word I say.

Well done on your open mind.

Exactly what I said, good talk

[Paddington Bear]

Look at all these tarrifs !

Meanwhile musk goes into federal agencies with his bunch of incel acolytes and gets root access to the payment systems.

It may seem like tin foil stuff. It looks like a technocratic coup to me.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-a ... nt-system/

America as a democracy is done.

Can’t see how this threatens democracy - Trump won the election and has the right therefore to send his cronies in to run the government. Pretty much the purpose of voting to change a nation’s leader

If you can't see how giving an arbitrary and unelected cünt like Musk control of payroll is dangerous taking into account his previous behaviour, then there's no helping you.

I said it wasn’t anti democratic - doing this was a policy platform that won the election

[Biffer]

I’m aware of what you consider the problem to be as you keep repeating it. I’m sorry but I can’t really look beyond the central point of you and others being that the wrong person won the election - I don’t disagree with that but I don’t believe the losers of an election spending 4 years claiming that the other side are anti democratic because they’re doing things they don’t agree with is fair or anything but counter productive.

If we live in democracies a change of government should mean a change in *how* a country is governed as well as *who* governs it, particularly during a period where a central critique of government from both right and left is that the current set ups fail to achieve results.


If you begin making silly comparisons as you did by wafting out the threat of the guillotine then don’t be shocked if people don’t take them particularly seriously, I didn’t bring it into the discussion in the first place and this rubbish got done to death during Trump’s first term where notably he did not reanimate the Third Reich or bring back Robespierre from beyond the grave.

So because I’m left wing, you automatically can’t believe a word I say.

Well done on your open mind.

Exactly what I said, good talk

Good to know.

None of us should listen to someone with a self confessed closed mind.

[Kiwias]

This will go down well with the Palestinians who voted for Trump because Biden/Harris ...whatever.

Trump speaking about Gaza after his meeting with Netanyahu:

Everybody I’ve spoken to loves the idea of the United States owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands of jobs with something that will be magnificent.”

[Niegs]

Trump's megalomania and greed is so strong, he's almost taunting Iran to take a shot at him...
https://globalnews.ca/news/11001824/tru ... -pressure/

[mat the expat]

Arguing the purity of democratic process is hopelessly idealistic... the reality is that the democratic process has been hijacked by wealth and influence for years now and Trump as a brand is the ultimate expression of that so far. It's arguable that he has stolen this election victory through the cooperation of Musk and others anyway, so the purity of democratic process is a pipe dream, a fantasy indulged by those who back the winning side.

it's hopelessly one eyed.

More importantly, the access to the Payroll records is 100% illegal in the US system - it's only working because Trump's team are moving too fast for the Senate/Congress to react to

It's not about Democracy as PB claims

[geordie_6]

This will go down well with the Palestinians who voted for Trump because Biden/Harris ...whatever.

Trump speaking about Gaza after his meeting with Netanyahu:

Everybody I’ve spoken to loves the idea of the United States owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands of jobs with something that will be magnificent.”

Even among the ludicrous statements he comes out with, this has to be amongst the most batshit? Middle East is already a powder keg, what amounts to ethnically cleansing Gaza by resettling Palestinians elsewhere is going to set off all kinds of shit.

[sturginho]

This will go down well with the Palestinians who voted for Trump because Biden/Harris ...whatever.

Trump speaking about Gaza after his meeting with Netanyahu:

Everybody I’ve spoken to loves the idea of the United States owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands of jobs with something that will be magnificent.”

Anyone who didn't vote, or voted against Harris because of Gaza is an absolute dribbling moron, but here we are. I guess they're acting all outraged now

[Yeeb]

This will go down well with the Palestinians who voted for Trump because Biden/Harris ...whatever.

Trump speaking about Gaza after his meeting with Netanyahu:

Everybody I’ve spoken to loves the idea of the United States owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands of jobs with something that will be magnificent.”

Even among the ludicrous statements he comes out with, this has to be amongst the most batshit? Middle East is already a powder keg, what amounts to ethnically cleansing Gaza by resettling Palestinians elsewhere is going to set off all kinds of shit.

Actually, contrarian thinking here, but it could be exactly what Gaza needs:
Present and recent situation suits neither Palestinians or Israel
Emnity will continue
Killings will continue
Nearby Islamic (not Egypt which has) states will continue to take almost no displaced of refugees of their faith when they can scrounge benefits in uk / Germany / Sweden etc
USA will continue to ship arms and military to the region anyways

Having USA acting as policeman / buffer in Gaza to sort out the emnity between one lot of pork dodgers and another , and give them yet another airbase in the area , could put a damper on all the killings. USA owning Gaza won’t sit well with his earlier proclamation that all Palestinians should go to Egypt temp basis as Gaza is currently a demolished building site , but joined up thinking & not contradicting himself has never been a trump strong point

[sturginho]

Speaking of dribbling morons

[Biffer]

But he was elected, so it should be ok. Isn’t that how it works?

[Biffer]

USAID has been completely shut down. All personnel on administrative leave, all those outside the USA to be brought home immediately.

USAID was established by act of congress and can only be shut down the same way.

[Sinkers]

Just returned from Cambodia.
NGOs in turmoil, many pausing operations and in fear of shutting down for good.
Even the de-mining paused but might be able to recommence in some form after Aus stepped in with $1.25m

[Biffer]

https://www.404media.co/nasa-dei-drop-e ... ive-order/

NASA personnel were told to “drop everything” to scrub public sites of mentions of DEI, indigenous people, environmental justice, and women in leadership, according to a directive obtained by 404 Media.
The directive, sent on January 22 and obtained by 404 Media, states:
“Per NASA HQ direction, we are required to scrub mentions of the following terms from our public sites by 5pm ET today. This is a drop everything and reprioritize your day request. Note that the list below is the list that exists this morning, but it may grow as the day goes on.
DEIA
Diversity (in context of DEIA)
Equity (“ “)
Inclusion (“ “)
Accessibility (“ “)
MSI
Minority Serving Institution
Indigenous People
EEJ
EJ
Environmental Justice
Underrepresented groups/people
Anything specifically targeting women (women in leadership, etc.)”

[Biffer]

Due to the freeze in FDA funding, some labs cannot do simple things like purchase liquid nitrogen. So decades of research samples around cancer and contagious diseases will be lost.

[Hal Jordan]

Just another normal day in normal democracy world.

[sturginho]

Just returned from Cambodia.
NGOs in turmoil, many pausing operations and in fear of shutting down for good.
Even the de-mining paused but might be able to recommence in some form after Aus stepped in with $1.25m

This must be great news for China (Chynaah!) who can now swoop in and be seen as heroes?

[Sinkers]

Just returned from Cambodia.
NGOs in turmoil, many pausing operations and in fear of shutting down for good.
Even the de-mining paused but might be able to recommence in some form after Aus stepped in with $1.25m

This must be great news for China (Chynaah!) who can now swoop in and be seen as heroes?

They’re already building the roads, bridges and airports so wouldn’t surprise me.

[Hal Jordan]

We're definitely in the Decline of An Empire stage as far as the US is concerned. China will take over in the same way we were the power in the 19th Century, and were superseded by America in the 20th.

[Guy Smiley]

Just returned from Cambodia.
NGOs in turmoil, many pausing operations and in fear of shutting down for good.
Even the de-mining paused but might be able to recommence in some form after Aus stepped in with $1.25m

This must be great news for China (Chynaah!) who can now swoop in and be seen as heroes?

In slightly related news....

https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/02/05/cook ... -surprise/

[I like neeps]

Just returned from Cambodia.
NGOs in turmoil, many pausing operations and in fear of shutting down for good.
Even the de-mining paused but might be able to recommence in some form after Aus stepped in with $1.25m

This must be great news for China (Chynaah!) who can now swoop in and be seen as heroes?

They’re already building the roads, bridges and airports so wouldn’t surprise me.

It would be a surprise if China stepped into the Usaid vacuum.

Much like Trump, China is purely focused on trade and commerce. They aren't going to step into health funding etc.