The Official English Rugby Thread

[Paddington Bear]

It’s not really about being a good club defender or not, more that he’s extremely abrasive and physical for a guy who isn’t huge - he’s not a massive step down from Sione in that respect

Been impressed with what I've seen of him though can't recall him aty 12. Be interesting to see how he gets on with Curry in his face

Curry can’t target him and Finn and we’ve been hearing about how great he is targeting Finn

This is why we have two Currys, checkmate

[SaintK]

It’s not really about being a good club defender or not, more that he’s extremely abrasive and physical for a guy who isn’t huge - he’s not a massive step down from Sione in that respect

Been impressed with what I've seen of him though can't recall him aty 12. Be interesting to see how he gets on with Curry in his face

Curry can’t target him and Finn and we’ve been hearing about how great he is targeting Finn

Leave Russell to Earl!

[Slick]

Scotland team out. Think we have them up front, and our back row has been excellent thus far. Huw Jones and VdM will never not give me the fear - it is very possible to get to the outside of our defensive system and I don’t think it’s any criticism of Smith to say he’s unlikely to stop a bloke 1,000 times the size in full flight if he gets through. You have to assume Russell will be better than he has been.

Got to put them under pressure down the middle and their breakdown discipline was piss poor against Italy which meant Allan could keep them in the game with 3 pointers. Useful blueprint for chipping away. I’d like to see us run down Jordan’s channel plenty.

Just got to win this one, really doesn’t matter how.

Is flakey still kicking or will Fin start as kicker?

Smith’s (M) a very reliable kicker, if his head is all over the place again I assume the change will happen early but I don’t have any issue with him keeping the tee for now

Just got off the train in Amersham and noticed this chap in the distance marching like an officer towards me with what looked like white gloves. Quite an eccentric I thought.

Turns out it was your old man

[Slick]

Been impressed with what I've seen of him though can't recall him aty 12. Be interesting to see how he gets on with Curry in his face

Curry can’t target him and Finn and we’ve been hearing about how great he is targeting Finn

Leave Russell to Earl!

Id welcome that

[Paddington Bear]

Is flakey still kicking or will Fin start as kicker?

Smith’s (M) a very reliable kicker, if his head is all over the place again I assume the change will happen early but I don’t have any issue with him keeping the tee for now

Just got off the train in Amersham and noticed this chap in the distance marching like an officer towards me with what looked like white gloves. Quite an eccentric I thought.

Turns out it was your old man

Saw where this was coming from a mile off, glad to hear he’s not working too hard

[sockwithaticket]

Our lack of second rows is really starting to get to me.

Not convinced papering over the cracks with tall back rowers will cut it.

[Slick]

Smith’s (M) a very reliable kicker, if his head is all over the place again I assume the change will happen early but I don’t have any issue with him keeping the tee for now

Just got off the train in Amersham and noticed this chap in the distance marching like an officer towards me with what looked like white gloves. Quite an eccentric I thought.

Turns out it was your old man

Saw where this was coming from a mile off, glad to hear he’s not working too hard

Thankfully the white gloves were actually sleeves pulled down

[inactionman]

Our lack of second rows is really starting to get to me.

Not convinced papering over the cracks with tall back rowers will cut it.

Assume you mean the bench replacement of Martin with Hill? The balance of the bench does seem a little off, happy enough for someone to cover lock and back row, but Hill and CCS only really cover 6 in the backrow - unless CCS has some skills at 8 I'm not familiar with.

[SaintK]

Our lack of second rows is really starting to get to me.

Not convinced papering over the cracks with tall back rowers will cut it.

Assume you mean the bench replacement of Martin with Hill? The balance of the bench does seem a little off, happy enough for someone to cover lock and back row, but Hill and CCS only really cover 6 in the backrow - unless CCS has some skills at 8 I'm not familiar with.

CCS played for the U20's at 8 a few times
The only other player that may have covered 5/6 is Coles but he has only just rejoined the squad after injury

[sockwithaticket]

Our lack of second rows is really starting to get to me.

Not convinced papering over the cracks with tall back rowers will cut it.

Assume you mean the bench replacement of Martin with Hill? The balance of the bench does seem a little off, happy enough for someone to cover lock and back row, but Hill and CCS only really cover 6 in the backrow - unless CCS has some skills at 8 I'm not familiar with.

That's the acute issue, but we do seem to be in a place where we've only got 3 that the England set up consider international class and are willing to consistently select in a matchday squad - Itoje, Chessum and Martin. Two of those seem to have had a fair few injury problems considering how young they are. I can't necessarily fault them for that conclusion.

Outside that our capped and not selected guys are Coles, Isiekwe, Ewels, J. Hill. Launchbury and Beaumont. Players either no longer at the top of their game or given opportunities and found wanting. The exception would be Coles.

Then there are the likes of Bamber and Tizard who're getting a look in with the A team and a host of EQP locks in the Premiership who are nowhere near the international set up. With the best will in the world guys like Freddie Clarke or George Hammond are definitely not the answer to an apparent lack of test quality at lock.

[SaintK]

Our lack of second rows is really starting to get to me.

Not convinced papering over the cracks with tall back rowers will cut it.

Assume you mean the bench replacement of Martin with Hill? The balance of the bench does seem a little off, happy enough for someone to cover lock and back row, but Hill and CCS only really cover 6 in the backrow - unless CCS has some skills at 8 I'm not familiar with.

That's the acute issue, but we do seem to be in a place where we've only got 3 that the England set up consider international class and are willing to consistently select in a matchday squad - Itoje, Chessum and Martin. Two of those seem to have had a fair few injury problems considering how young they are. I can't necessarily fault them for that conclusion.

Outside that our capped and not selected guys are Coles, Isiekwe, Ewels, J. Hill. Launchbury and Beaumont. Players either no longer at the top of their game or given opportunities and found wanting. The exception would be Coles.

Then there are the likes of Bamber and Tizard who're getting a look in with the A team and a host of EQP locks in the Premiership who are nowhere near the international set up. With the best will in the world guys like Freddie Clarke or George Hammond are definitely not the answer to an apparent lack of test quality at lock.

It’s a shame that Joe Batley got injured just before he would have played for England A
There’s another young lock at Bears, Owen’s who looks as if he could develop well
But otherwise hmmmmm!

[sockwithaticket]

Assume you mean the bench replacement of Martin with Hill? The balance of the bench does seem a little off, happy enough for someone to cover lock and back row, but Hill and CCS only really cover 6 in the backrow - unless CCS has some skills at 8 I'm not familiar with.

That's the acute issue, but we do seem to be in a place where we've only got 3 that the England set up consider international class and are willing to consistently select in a matchday squad - Itoje, Chessum and Martin. Two of those seem to have had a fair few injury problems considering how young they are. I can't necessarily fault them for that conclusion.

Outside that our capped and not selected guys are Coles, Isiekwe, Ewels, J. Hill. Launchbury and Beaumont. Players either no longer at the top of their game or given opportunities and found wanting. The exception would be Coles.

Then there are the likes of Bamber and Tizard who're getting a look in with the A team and a host of EQP locks in the Premiership who are nowhere near the international set up. With the best will in the world guys like Freddie Clarke or George Hammond are definitely not the answer to an apparent lack of test quality at lock.

It’s a shame that Joe Batley got injured just before he would have played for England A
There’s another young lock at Bears, Owen’s who looks as if he could develop well
But otherwise hmmmmm!

Finn Carnduff's down as lock/back row for Tigers, though I must admit I only recall him playing back row for U20s. Obviously the other Chessum is off in Japan at the moment. The current U20s pairing (Sodeke/Kpoku) looks pretty handy, but you never know how that will translate as they get out of age grade.

There're definitely some potential future options, but not many who are ready right now if we needed to drop someone into a 6N game.

[Margin__Walker]

Our lack of second rows is really starting to get to me.

Not convinced papering over the cracks with tall back rowers will cut it.

Assume you mean the bench replacement of Martin with Hill? The balance of the bench does seem a little off, happy enough for someone to cover lock and back row, but Hill and CCS only really cover 6 in the backrow - unless CCS has some skills at 8 I'm not familiar with.

CCS played for the U20's at 8 a few times
The only other player that may have covered 5/6 is Coles but he has only just rejoined the squad after injury

CCS played a lot at 8 for LI. Often very effectively. Sometimes not (tits for hands games)

[SaintK]

England A team

15 Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks, West Park Leeds RUFC)

14 Tobias Elliott (Saracens, Harrow Rugby Club)

13 Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby, Chippenham RFC)

12 Will Butt (Bath Rugby, Wimborne RFC)

11 Ollie Hassell-Collins (Leicester Tigers, Newbury RFC, 2 caps)

10 Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby, Oxford RFC)

9 Jack van Poortvliet (c) (Leicester Tigers, North Walsham RFC, 16 caps)

1 Phil Brantingham (Saracens, Northern FC)

2 Curtis Langdon (vc) (Northampton Saints, Hornets Rugby Club, 2 caps)

3 George Kloska (Bristol Bears, St. Brendan’s RFC)

4 Hugh Tizard (Saracens, Guildfordians RFC)

5 Tom Lockett (Northampton Saints, Northampton Saints)

6 Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, Bromyard Rugby Club, 1 cap)

7 Jack Kenningham (Harlequins, Richmond RFC)

8 Alfie Barbeary (Bath Rugby, Banbury RUFC)

Replacements
16 Gabriel Oghre (Bristol Bears, Walcot RFC)

17 Tarek Haffar (Northampton Saints, Grasshoppers RFC)

18 Luke Green (Northampton Saints, Richmond RFC)

19 Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs, Taunton Rugby Football Club)

20 Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs, Devonport Services RFC)

21 Will Porter (Harlequins, Amersham and Chiltern RFC)

22 Jamie Shillcock (Leicester Tigers, Southam RUFC)

23 George Hendy (Northampton Saints, Shipston-on-Stour RFC)

[Hal Jordan]

JVP getting his rehab in, I see.

[SaintK]

JVP getting his rehab in, I see.

Waste of a start for someone else
Shilcock in there shows how little real depth we have at 10 as well
Be interesting to see how Bath team mates Butt and Ojomoh work together, both very strong runners.

[SaintK]

Whisper it quietly but Will Stuart has come on leaps and bounds at Tighthead for England
Thought he's been excellent in the scrum and loose the past few matches

[Slick]

As I said elsewhere, exceptional day at Twickenham yesterday.

I do have to be complaint though, who the hell are the idiots on the microphones? Some cockney geezer who clearly knows nothing about rugby just being a dick. I can’t remember exactly what it was but straight after the final whistle but something along the lines of “haha Scotland we beat you, go back home”, it was a bit bizarre, out of order and out of place

[SaintK]

As I said elsewhere, exceptional day at Twickenham yesterday.

I do have to be complaint though, who the hell are the idiots on the microphones? Some cockney geezer who clearly knows nothing about rugby just being a dick. I can’t remember exactly what it was but straight after the final whistle but something along the lines of “haha Scotland we beat you, go back home”, it was a bit bizarre, out of order and out of place

Bloody Bill Sweeney!!!!

[SaintK]

Anyone else struggling to get the Rugby Pass TV stream for the England A/Ireland A match
Can't get it on any device!!!

[Oxbow]

My, ahem, friend was using a less than legal stream and it was terrible, kept stopping and starting all the time so he has just given up.

[Slick]

As I said elsewhere, exceptional day at Twickenham yesterday.

I do have to be complaint though, who the hell are the idiots on the microphones? Some cockney geezer who clearly knows nothing about rugby just being a dick. I can’t remember exactly what it was but straight after the final whistle but something along the lines of “haha Scotland we beat you, go back home”, it was a bit bizarre, out of order and out of place

Bloody Bill Sweeney!!!!

I also have a massively irrational hatred of anyone dressed as a Crusader so my mates thoroughly enjoyed a group of about 20 of them setting up camp next to us pre game

[Hal Jordan]

Whisper it quietly but Will Stuart has come on leaps and bounds at Tighthead for England
Thought he's been excellent in the scrum and loose the past few matches

I was going to post this during the match, but didn't want to jinx it.

[SaintK]

Anyone else struggling to get the Rugby Pass TV stream for the England A/Ireland A match
Can't get it on any device!!!

Got it
England 14-5 up 32 minutes

[SaintK]

14-5 at halftime
Very wet and windy in Bristol but both sides trying to attack.

[sockwithaticket]

Some alright stuff on display for a scratch side. Atkinson's hands for the first try were brilliant.

Anyone else struggling to get the Rugby Pass TV stream for the England A/Ireland A match
Can't get it on any device!!!

I finally managed to get the Rugbypass one working by about the 25th minute. The less official stream I found kept hanging and making weird noises at me, like old dial up internet but worse.

[SaintK]

England so wasteful on the Irish line!!!

[SaintK]

Fuck me that must be the 6th not straight lineout
Why the hell aren't both teams throwing to the front/middle

[sockwithaticket]

Profligate in the Irish 22 and the scrum hasn't gone particularly well.

[SaintK]

I know the conditions are horrendous but bloody hell how many more mistakes are England going to make?
Been in the Ireland half for all the second half

[sockwithaticket]

Gah, shame that won't stand, but the path of the ball instantly made it look like a knock on in the tackle.

[Paddington Bear]

Whisper it quietly but Will Stuart has come on leaps and bounds at Tighthead for England
Thought he's been excellent in the scrum and loose the past few matches

I was going to post this during the match, but didn't want to jinx it.

The scrum was an under-appreciated factor in the win over France as well. Watched the game in a packed pub on a tiny tv so caveats apply but I felt in many ways it was a pretty classic English blueprint to win a game - win the scrum, win your lineouts and take the 3 whenever offered. We managed all three, Scotland had issues with all three and the rest is history.

Given the hoodoo and the fact our guys were visibly scared of VdM I’m not wildly fussed about how we won, there’s now a fortnight to prep to put in two proper performances to finish off with.

Defence was heroic in the second half, the fact we managed to adapt and chip away with pens is reflective of a significant improvement in the on-field leadership, captaincy for me is bringing out the very best of Itoje

[SaintK]

28-12 to England A
Should have been more with second half dominance
Fisilau looked very good coming on for Barbeary

[Ovals]

28-12 to England A
Should have been more with second half dominance
Fisilau looked very good coming on for Barbeary

Decent win in horrible conditions - suffered from the forwards having white line fever when we should have spun the ball out, having sucked in the Irish defenders. But some very good individual performances - even JVP looked quite bright - and we didn't let them run around us in the wide channels - defence looked well organised in open play - put huge pressure on them without getting too narrow.

[Paddington Bear]

Rewatched the game and honestly think some of the criticism is overblown. A forgettable rather than poor performance that involved a lot of character and guts

[Raggs]

Rewatched the game and honestly think some of the criticism is overblown. A forgettable rather than poor performance that involved a lot of character and guts

Defence out side was poor in places, but overall a lot of good defending in our 22, pushing the attack back.

[Hal Jordan]

The one out stuff was good, we generally didn't overcommit and kept the one out/pick and drive runners bottled up. It was the wide defence that was the real problem.

[Paddington Bear]

It’s a team that wants to win and play for each other as well, which we shouldn’t take for granted. Excellently led by Itoje who seems to be hitting a better balance of risk reward (and getting the final kicked moved was a phenomenal bit of shithousing).

It wouldn’t change the fact that the attack was considered largely surplus to requirements, but I do wonder how the narrative of this game shifts if we don’t give away a dumb lineout pen after a superb defensive stand c.75 mins, closing out the game and winning 16/19-10

[inactionman]

It’s a team that wants to win and play for each other as well, which we shouldn’t take for granted. Excellently led by Itoje who seems to be hitting a better balance of risk reward (and getting the final kicked moved was a phenomenal bit of shithousing).

It wouldn’t change the fact that the attack was considered largely surplus to requirements, but I do wonder how the narrative of this game shifts if we don’t give away a dumb lineout pen after a superb defensive stand c.75 mins, closing out the game and winning 16/19-10

The midfield and wide defence are still poor, which is gifting teams openings and allowing teams with good backs too much time and space - as we saw with France and Scotland, although at we did close the door a bit in each of those matches

The silver lining I see is that we've not got our fourth* defensive coach in 2 seasons fully in post yet (ignoring whether we think he's the right man for the job) - you'd hope that midfield and wide defence would be addressed, as it's not something we've traditionally been poor at.


* it is four, isn't it? whoever was in at the end of Eddie's reign (and noting he had shedloads such as Gustard and Brett Hodgson), and Sinfield, Felix Jones and now El-Abd under Borthwick

[Tichtheid]

It’s a team that wants to win and play for each other as well, which we shouldn’t take for granted. Excellently led by Itoje who seems to be hitting a better balance of risk reward (and getting the final kicked moved was a phenomenal bit of shithousing).

Russell should have been allowed to take the kick again, going by the laws of the game and this time from in line to where the try was scored.



The opposing team at a conversion

8.14 All players retire to their try line and do not overstep that line until the kicker moves in any direction to begin their approach to kick. When the kicker does this, they may charge or jump to prevent a goal but must not be physically supported by other players in these actions.

Sanction: If the opposing team at a conversion attempt infringes but the kick is successful, the goal stands. If the kick is unsuccessful, the kicker retakes the conversion and the opposing team is not allowed to charge. When another kick is allowed, the kicker may repeat all the preparations. The kicker may change the type of kick.


The spot Russell kicked from was over a metre in from where vdM scored, Itoje was up in the ref's face whilst the clock was ticking down on Russell.