President Trump and US politics catchall

[Punter15]

Whatever happens, Donnie will blame someone else and his moronic hate cult will lap it up.

[lemonhead]

Whatever happens, Donnie will blame someone else and his moronic hate cult will lap it up.

Sadly this. We've had it for a decade now. Promise the earth, easy answers to complex questions and blame an invisible and seemingly undefeatable Other who traitorously ruined everything.

Always thought Orwell would edge Huxley in their respective visions of the future.

[Biffer]

One of the things they were looking at was 2 consecutive terms disqualifies you.

Does that exclude him from being a VP? Because if not, JD Vance runs next with Trump as VP, then steps down.

12th Amendment. "No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of president shall be eligible to that of vice-president of the United States".

Yep.

If they find a way the orange turd to run again, they've found a way for Obama to do it too.

[Biffer]

Whatever happens, Donnie will blame someone else and his moronic hate cult will lap it up.

Sadly this. We've had it for a decade now. Promise the earth, easy answers to complex questions and blame an invisible and seemingly undefeatable Other who traitorously ruined everything.

Always thought Orwell would edge Huxley in their respective visions of the future.

Oddly enough, Orwell thought Huxley's vision was more realistic. And tbh I think we're closer to Huxley. Masses sedated by entertainment and drugs, underckass out of sight etc.

[lemonhead]

Whatever happens, Donnie will blame someone else and his moronic hate cult will lap it up.

Sadly this. We've had it for a decade now. Promise the earth, easy answers to complex questions and blame an invisible and seemingly undefeatable Other who traitorously ruined everything.

Always thought Orwell would edge Huxley in their respective visions of the future.

Oddly enough, Orwell thought Huxley's vision was more realistic. And tbh I think we're closer to Huxley. Masses sedated by entertainment and drugs, underckass out of sight etc.

Oh, it was. And during the early noughties he was out of sight.

But true to form, we mostly haven't lived through the other stuff or noticed it bubbling away in the background while we enjoyed ourselves. A dying man's warning.

A mix of both is about right, but that underclass in both scenarios was kept firmly in check and wouldn't even know how to rebel. I don't think that holds if these kvnts at the top continue to upset the applecart.

[Biffer]

Sadly this. We've had it for a decade now. Promise the earth, easy answers to complex questions and blame an invisible and seemingly undefeatable Other who traitorously ruined everything.

Always thought Orwell would edge Huxley in their respective visions of the future.

Oddly enough, Orwell thought Huxley's vision was more realistic. And tbh I think we're closer to Huxley. Masses sedated by entertainment and drugs, underckass out of sight etc.

Oh, it was. And during the early noughties he was out of sight.

But true to form, we mostly haven't lived through the other stuff or noticed it bubbling away in the background while we enjoyed ourselves. A dying man's warning.

A mix of both is about right, but that underclass in both scenarios was kept firmly in check and wouldn't even know how to rebel. I don't think that holds if these kvnts at the top continue to upset the applecart.

I Huxley, the middle class was drugged to the eyeballs to keep them in check as well - it's a recognition of Marc, that every revolution is actually led by the middle over throwing the top,using the lower as their muscle.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Indeed, precisely two hours and 17 minutes after insisting that his policies would never change, Trump returned to Truth Social to announce excitedly that the policies were going to change: “Just had a very productive call with To Lam, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, who told me that Vietnam wants to cut their Tariffs down to ZERO if they are able to make an agreement with the U.S. I thanked him on behalf of our Country, and said I look forward to a meeting in the near future.”

This bit of commentary perhaps bother me more than the rest. Because the Vietnamese response to the USA killing millions of its citizens was to rebuild their shattered nation/economy and as part of that sell unto the Americans things the Americans wanted. And for that Trump wants to deliver them unto poverty. Deplorable doesn't even come close for Trump, no doubt he'll raise the America first agenda, but by heavens he's a piece of shit (with perhaps apologies being needed here to redeem the good name of shit)

[Uncle fester]

I suspect that the aim here is that importers pay for the privilege of selling into the American market similar to how Amazon takes a cut of what 3rd parties sell on their website.

It's not quite tariffs, more like extortion open to vast amounts of corruption.

[Raggs]

One of the things they were looking at was 2 consecutive terms disqualifies you.

Does that exclude him from being a VP? Because if not, JD Vance runs next with Trump as VP, then steps down.

12th Amendment. "No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of president shall be eligible to that of vice-president of the United States".

With a slightly generous supreme court ruling, he wouldn't be ineligible to be VP. 22nd amendment is the one that makes him ineligible, but that states cannot be "elected" to be president again, if he became president through VP he wouldn't have been elected to the position. So he wouldn't be conditionally ineligible to be president, just to be elected president, arguably not the same thing.

[Niegs]

[tabascoboy]

[Uncle fester]

https://www.reddit.com/r/lazerpig/s/OT3xkUusXv

[Guy Smiley]

[Uncle fester]

Real dog ate my homework energy to these excuses.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... dApp_Other

[Gumboot]

Good interview with Will Hutton, esp the last couple of minutes (from 9:00) when he discusses the strong possibility of a new trading bloc taking shape in response to Trump's tariff disorder, and how that may also impact China's current trade relationships.



But not to worry, America. No doubt the King has a concept of a plan for just such an eventuality... right?

So much winning...

[Guy Smiley]

[Uncle fester]

I suspect that the aim here is that importers pay for the privilege of selling into the American market similar to how Amazon takes a cut of what 3rd parties sell on their website.

It's not quite tariffs, more like extortion open to vast amounts of corruption.

As I guessed
"They are coming to the table. They want to talk but there's no talk unless they pay us a lot of money on a yearly basis," Mr Trump said.

[Kiwias]

MAGA view of the world

[lemonhead]

Saw an old clip of Trump on Letterman from 30 odd years back, he leered/grimaced exactly like that all throughout. Identical to his father's own brand of rictus.

You wonder if either of them ever smiled with their eyes in their life. But that would mean understanding the gesture - to them it comes off like a ritual to get through whatever awkward situation you're in.

[Sandstorm]

Saw an old clip of Trump on Letterman from 30 odd years back, he leered/grimaced exactly like that all throughout. Identical to his father's own brand of rictus.

You wonder if either of them ever smiled with their eyes in their life.

I read an article a few years ago where Fred told Donald growing up that "smiling and laughing was a sign of weakness" and so they avoid doing a genuine smile at all times. Sad childhood.

[Insane_Homer]

Markets continue their nosedive today.

Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Markets continue their nosedive today.

Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%

Any comments on where the money is going? It can't all be going into bonds and gold, even before many indices will even be required to hold securities

[Sandstorm]

Markets continue their nosedive today.

Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%

Any comments on where the money is going? It can't all be going into bonds and gold, even before many indices will even be required to hold securities

It's not real money.

[Biffer]

Markets continue their nosedive today.

Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%

Any comments on where the money is going? It can't all be going into bonds and gold, even before many indices will even be required to hold securities

It's gone. This is something people don't appreciate. It's not all tucked away somewhere, there is now less money in our economy, in everyone's economy.

[tabascoboy]

No doubt this is even more incentive to try and force one-way deals with Ukraine etc

China Just Turned Off U.S. Supplies Of Minerals Critical For Defense & Cleantech

Last Updated on: 6th April 2025, 10:57 am

In April 2025, while most of the world was clutching pearls over trade war tit-for-tat tariffs, China calmly walked over to the supply chain and yanked out a handful of critical bolts. The bolts are made of dysprosium, terbium, tungsten, indium and yttrium—the elements that don’t make headlines but without which your electric car doesn’t run, your fighter jet doesn’t fly, and your solar panels go from clean energy marvels to overpriced roofing tiles. They’re minerals that show up on obscure government risk registers right before wars start or cleantech projects get quietly cancelled.

Full article at https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/05/ch ... cleantech/

[Slick]

Markets continue their nosedive today.

Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%

The secret billionaire cabal that are running the US to extract all the cash aren't off to a flyer.

[Sinkers]

MAGA view of the world

A few weather related natural disasters recently. Something like 40 dead in March and 16 over the last day or so.
Most recent obviously overshadowed by other stuff in the news. But I’ve seen hardly a peep - no wining about FEMA response, no photo ops/ handing out paper towels etc etc, no bitching, no moaning just maybe a few hopes and prayers from the local republican mayors etc
Like the expectations are completely different once it’s not the dems in the Whitehouse.

[Yeeb]

Woah dont get your nickers into a twist! I wasn't comparing the whole of Brexit v US imposing tariffs debacles but merely comparing the impact of one country imposing economically damaging barriers to trade and thinking the impact is the same for both sides! In Brexit we came out of the EU and as a consequence lost our favourable trading arrangements with out biggest export market, whereas the EU countries lost one, and in most cases not by any means their biggest, market. The UK economy is now widely agreed to take a 4% hit on GDP. The US have done the same in implementing these tariffs and increased the cost of every single import into their market stoking inflation, disrupting supply chains and their own manufacturing, slowing down the economy, etc. Yes other countries will take a hit but for many ie the UK, the US isnt their biggest market - as I said earlier it is 17% of UK exports and mostly on a small range of specialist goods, luxury cars, whisky, etc. The parallels between the economic bullshit claims spouted about Brexit and Trumps tariffs are very strong and both ignore the basic maths that they take a 100% hit for their actions whereas all the other countries ie the EU or the World, take a proportionally smaller hit to their economy!

The US have gambled that the rest of the world will fold, in much the same way Brexiteers said the EU couldn't do without the UK and we could/would continue to have unfettered access to the EU, goods would flow West-East to Northern Ireland without any barriers, etc. That went really well and our imports and exports with the EU are down post Brexit and as the OBR points put there is little evidence that trade from elsewhere has managed to plug the gap! If China, Canada, EU, etc dont fold to Trumps demands then the economic damage to the US of the tariff barriers will be huge and be felt very quick! At least with Brexit we had a transition period and planned, albeit very very badly for the transition. It could be a significant hit, comparable to the Brexit impact on UK GDP but within the year. It will be interesting to see who folds first but my money is on Trump having to fold but trying to cloak it up as some form of crappy success!

Uk didn’t impose extra tariffs though , the remaining EU did, as at the time didn’t need any UK money, military capacity or world influence.

Remains to be seen how Trump lunacy pans out for world trade , right now uk has gained a bit comparatively

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

[dpedin]

No doubt this is even more incentive to try and force one-way deals with Ukraine etc

China Just Turned Off U.S. Supplies Of Minerals Critical For Defense & Cleantech

Last Updated on: 6th April 2025, 10:57 am

In April 2025, while most of the world was clutching pearls over trade war tit-for-tat tariffs, China calmly walked over to the supply chain and yanked out a handful of critical bolts. The bolts are made of dysprosium, terbium, tungsten, indium and yttrium—the elements that don’t make headlines but without which your electric car doesn’t run, your fighter jet doesn’t fly, and your solar panels go from clean energy marvels to overpriced roofing tiles. They’re minerals that show up on obscure government risk registers right before wars start or cleantech projects get quietly cancelled.

Full article at https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/05/ch ... cleantech/

You're underestimating the sheer brilliance, intellect and foresight of Trump and his cabal of brownshirts! No sane Gov would have gone all in on a gamble like the tariff wars without having created a backstop and stockpile of the key raw materials and other key goods that they needed to sustain their own economy. Nor would they have done anything to endanger the very people, the loyal and intellectually able MAGA supporters that voted for them. Okey their 401ks are decimated but who wanted to retire anyway? To do so would just be plain madness and incompetence! I refuse to believe the greatest business man, lover and indeed golfer the world has ever seen hasn't thought this through to the most minute detail. He even recognized the real economic threat of the penguins on the Heard and MacDonald Islands, previously ignored by the so called economic experts, becoming a Trojan horse for other countries to funnel their good through to avoid tarfiffs! Surely he wasn't playing golf all weekend whilst the markets burned but hidden away in his secret war room planning the next steps of this glorious revolution? We are all in danger of underestimating the greatest brain the world has ever seen, he is always three moves ahead in this game of 3D chess. I for one think he should be awarded all the Nobel Prizes this year!

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Markets continue their nosedive today.

Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%

Any comments on where the money is going? It can't all be going into bonds and gold, even before many indices will even be required to hold securities

It's gone. This is something people don't appreciate. It's not all tucked away somewhere, there is now less money in our economy, in everyone's economy.

Some 'money' that existed in the ether is gone, but if there are movements out of securities there's movement into something else. For sure a lot of money will have run to bonds and gold, but not all, and as noted many funds will have to hold a certain weighting of securities as per their structure. So I do wonder where demand is even in a bear market

[dpedin]

Uk didn’t impose extra tariffs though , the remaining EU did, as at the time didn’t need any UK money, military capacity or world influence.

Remains to be seen how Trump lunacy pans out for world trade , right now uk has gained a bit comparatively

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

And with this I think we are done here!

[Yeeb]

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! [cut]

Yeeb said the EU retaliated with tariffs, a few times on this thread - par for the course coming from your average Brexiteer. Although in his case, seemingly ex-Brexiteer? ex-Brexit-curious, in rehab?

Trans Brexit.

Trexiteer?

Ex brexiteer ?
Lolz, if anything this past week as bolstered the successful case for Brexit. We may yet come through relatively unscathed with our lower tariffs am& service based economy , Starmers best course of action may well be take no action for now, an international political equivalent of heading down the Winchester and having a pint and waiting for it to blow over.

[Yeeb]

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

And with this I think we are done here!

Lolz, you lose again it seems. Kid yourself all you want about Brexit or that it was done for economic or trading basis reasons, look where the votes were, average person has no interest or understanding about economics or trade

To be clear, I am not disagreeing with you in the slightest re voting decisions having very real impacts on economics. But your method of comparing apples with oranges is warped because of your own agenda

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Uk didn’t impose extra tariffs though , the remaining EU did, as at the time didn’t need any UK money, military capacity or world influence.

Remains to be seen how Trump lunacy pans out for world trade , right now uk has gained a bit comparatively

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity

Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much

[dpedin]

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity

Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much

I agree 100%!

However we are trying to play chess against a pigeon when trying to discuss this seriously with Yeeb. Happy for you to take over the mantle, I gave up.

[Yeeb]

EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity

Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much

Agree with all of that, expecting all of the benefits without paying for the club fees was bonkers. It’s nice that a lot of dust has settled and a fair number of things have sort of kept the status quo just with more admin.

The ‘more people coming in’ is also sadly true , there have been decades where we could have made our borders tougher but didn’t, and it still baffles me why don’t is so inept at preventing HMS poolshitter docking daily. I maintain that Brexit only occurred because of immigration & the population free movement 4th pillar.

Trump & Putin / Ukraine have forced somewhat the bendy bananas and 350m side of buses onto the back burner thank goodness, Uk and Eu seemed more aligned now on the important stuff.

[Yeeb]

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity

Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much

I agree 100%!

However we are trying to play chess against a pigeon when trying to discuss this seriously with Yeeb. Happy for you to take over the mantle, I gave up.

Because you are a loser

[Rhubarb & Custard]

You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..

The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity

Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much

I agree 100%!

However we are trying to play chess against a pigeon when trying to discuss this seriously with Yeeb. Happy for you to take over the mantle, I gave up.

Yeeb is on ignore, so I might bother to look at 1 in 10 posts.

More widely it'll be interesting to see what trade deal with the EU is developed by Canada, especially if Carney wins power. That could be something we'd want to join, it could prove very useful, and you might even get interest from Australia, Japan, NZ...

The USA, certainly the current GOP, and China would hate it, not sure what India might make of it. It would be a hell of a power base, and drag the EU away from some of its focus on culture back to being a trading block. Whatever standards were set by such group would prove hugely influential

[Insane_Homer]

Back in New York, the main US indexes have slid further in the first few minutes of trade.

The Dow Jones is now down 4.4%, the S&P 500 has lost 4.7% while the Nasdaq has fallen 5%.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Be nice, Trump said the tariffs are going to make then 'wealthy again like never before'. There is something of a poetry to his asininity