The Scottish Politics Thread

[Blackmac]

Well no one saw that coming in Hamilton

Bit of a shockeroonie.

Labour actually won three and a half thousand fewer votes than in ‘21, SNP’s vote collapsed by over half.

It's a very odd time in Scottish politics. I think everyone was assuming the SNP were slowly getting back to domination after the last couple of years and that Labour was very much a one off vote for the GE and obviously no one saw Reform coming. In saying that I'm not sure this result is definitive in any way, just a symptom of the disruption that is happening.

The other odd bit is polls saying support for Independence at an all time high, but support for the SNP still seemingly not massively recovering. I hope this is people seeing what a mess they are making, and have been for the last few years, and wanting a change realising that a referendum is not happening imminently. It feels a bit more grown up.

I'm firmly in that camp. Generally supportive of the idea of independence but absolutely convinced that the shower of incompetents in the Scottish Parliament, all parties, would make a disaster of it.

[Simian]

Worth noting that Larkhall has always had a high number of orange lodge, up to our knees in fenian blood types.

Aye, just a few…

[Tichtheid]

Worth noting that Larkhall has always had a high number of orange lodge, up to our knees in fenian blood types.

Aye, just a few…

I was thinking this last night in my exchange with PB. I tried to find some quick info on areas in Scotland where Reform have a strong following, but nothing came up.

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a strong Jaffa/Reform overlap, that and rural places where there are few or no immigrants.

[Slick]

Bit of a shockeroonie.

Labour actually won three and a half thousand fewer votes than in ‘21, SNP’s vote collapsed by over half.

It's a very odd time in Scottish politics. I think everyone was assuming the SNP were slowly getting back to domination after the last couple of years and that Labour was very much a one off vote for the GE and obviously no one saw Reform coming. In saying that I'm not sure this result is definitive in any way, just a symptom of the disruption that is happening.

The other odd bit is polls saying support for Independence at an all time high, but support for the SNP still seemingly not massively recovering. I hope this is people seeing what a mess they are making, and have been for the last few years, and wanting a change realising that a referendum is not happening imminently. It feels a bit more grown up.

I'm firmly in that camp. Generally supportive of the idea of independence but absolutely convinced that the shower of incompetents in the Scottish Parliament, all parties, would make a disaster of it.

Yeah, as I've said a few times before, I'm not against the idea as a concept but it's impossible to support with the dross that is being offered at the moment. As I've also said before, I'd like to see a cross party group of our real political heavyweights to actually sit down independently and assess what it would really look like.

EDIT: also prominent business people etc

[Biffer]

It's a very odd time in Scottish politics. I think everyone was assuming the SNP were slowly getting back to domination after the last couple of years and that Labour was very much a one off vote for the GE and obviously no one saw Reform coming. In saying that I'm not sure this result is definitive in any way, just a symptom of the disruption that is happening.

The other odd bit is polls saying support for Independence at an all time high, but support for the SNP still seemingly not massively recovering. I hope this is people seeing what a mess they are making, and have been for the last few years, and wanting a change realising that a referendum is not happening imminently. It feels a bit more grown up.

I'm firmly in that camp. Generally supportive of the idea of independence but absolutely convinced that the shower of incompetents in the Scottish Parliament, all parties, would make a disaster of it.

Yeah, as I've said a few times before, I'm not against the idea as a concept but it's impossible to support with the dross that is being offered at the moment. As I've also said before, I'd like to see a cross party group of our real political heavyweights to actually sit down independently and assess what it would really look like.

EDIT: also prominent business people etc

But that’ll never happen because no one from the Tories, labour or Lib Dem’s would take part. So you’re putting an impossible objective on the road to you considering it.

[Slick]

I'm firmly in that camp. Generally supportive of the idea of independence but absolutely convinced that the shower of incompetents in the Scottish Parliament, all parties, would make a disaster of it.

Yeah, as I've said a few times before, I'm not against the idea as a concept but it's impossible to support with the dross that is being offered at the moment. As I've also said before, I'd like to see a cross party group of our real political heavyweights to actually sit down independently and assess what it would really look like.

EDIT: also prominent business people etc

But that’ll never happen because no one from the Tories, labour or Lib Dem’s would take part. So you’re putting an impossible objective on the road to you considering it.

Has anyone ever proposed such a thing? Genuine question, I've no idea. I actually think if it was a serious proposition you would get people like Brown, McConnel, Gove, Swinney to consider it.

[Tichtheid]

I don't think anyone could keep a straight face and say Cameron, Osbourne, Rees Mogg, Truss and her sidekick, May, Bozo or any of the rest of them were choc full of talent. Labour have fucked up on several big issues since coming back in, they won on back of keeping shtum during the run up to last year's election. That was more a "get rid of the clown car" vote than following a vision laid out before the electorate from Labour, the party I naturally gravitate towards.

[Tichtheid]

Yeah, as I've said a few times before, I'm not against the idea as a concept but it's impossible to support with the dross that is being offered at the moment. As I've also said before, I'd like to see a cross party group of our real political heavyweights to actually sit down independently and assess what it would really look like.

EDIT: also prominent business people etc

But that’ll never happen because no one from the Tories, labour or Lib Dem’s would take part. So you’re putting an impossible objective on the road to you considering it.

Has anyone ever proposed such a thing? Genuine question, I've no idea. I actually think if it was a serious proposition you would get people like Brown, McConnel, Gove, Swinney to consider it.

I think it would be impossible for those people to come in with an objective mind, to be honest.

[Big D]

Worth noting that Larkhall has always had a high number of orange lodge, up to our knees in fenian blood types.

Aye, just a few…

I was thinking this last night in my exchange with PB. I tried to find some quick info on areas in Scotland where Reform have a strong following, but nothing came up.

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a strong Jaffa/Reform overlap, that and rural places where there are few or no immigrants.

HLS since 2011 has never had more than 6,332 people vote Conservative. The swing to Reform is a hell of a lot more than a few Orangemen/Protestants voting for them. Even assuming the Tory vote went to Reform that only accounts for about 60% of the Reform total. It would be a mistake to assume Reform is popular in that area for a by election simply due to that. (not suggesting you are).

Reform and their band of talk shite but talk about the popular topics is cutting through because they hit a wide range of people where as the other four parties largely play to the same groups of people they always have.

This by election was largely irrelevant, especially being close enough to the next Holyrood election. For some it would be a chance to the SNP a bloody nose with relatively little consequence. With only a 44% turnout, it is hard to say whether it is likely to be replicated across the country in the next elections.

[Slick]

But that’ll never happen because no one from the Tories, labour or Lib Dem’s would take part. So you’re putting an impossible objective on the road to you considering it.

Has anyone ever proposed such a thing? Genuine question, I've no idea. I actually think if it was a serious proposition you would get people like Brown, McConnel, Gove, Swinney to consider it.

I think it would be impossible for those people to come in with an objective mind, to be honest.

I think it would be very difficult but I also think the status quo is really doing the country a lot of damage. I think if people are completely honest voting for independence at the moment is nothing more than a wing and a prayer and for at least 50% of the country, and probably a fair few more, that's just not good enough.

[Slick]

Aye, just a few…

I was thinking this last night in my exchange with PB. I tried to find some quick info on areas in Scotland where Reform have a strong following, but nothing came up.

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a strong Jaffa/Reform overlap, that and rural places where there are few or no immigrants.

HLS since 2011 has never had more than 6,332 people vote Conservative. The swing to Reform is a hell of a lot more than a few Orangemen/Protestants voting for them. Even assuming the Tory vote went to Reform that only accounts for about 60% of the Reform total. It would be a mistake to assume Reform is popular in that area for a by election simply due to that. (not suggesting you are).

Reform and their band of talk shite but talk about the popular topics is cutting through because they hit a wide range of people where as the other four parties largely play to the same groups of people they always have.

This by election was largely irrelevant, especially being close enough to the next Holyrood election. For some it would be a chance to the SNP a bloody nose with relatively little consequence. With only a 44% turnout, it is hard to say whether it is likely to be replicated across the country in the next elections.

I'm not really sure about that. The GE was a huge bloodied nose, whilst accepting there was a bigger play going on, I don't really see why people would continue with a protest vote in a byelection a year later. The SNP were in fairly buoyant mood thinking they had steadied the ship somewhat so I think it has a little more significance than you are giving it.

[Biffer]

Yeah, as I've said a few times before, I'm not against the idea as a concept but it's impossible to support with the dross that is being offered at the moment. As I've also said before, I'd like to see a cross party group of our real political heavyweights to actually sit down independently and assess what it would really look like.

EDIT: also prominent business people etc

But that’ll never happen because no one from the Tories, labour or Lib Dem’s would take part. So you’re putting an impossible objective on the road to you considering it.

Has anyone ever proposed such a thing? Genuine question, I've no idea. I actually think if it was a serious proposition you would get people like Brown, McConnel, Gove, Swinney to consider it.

Not a chance. They would never put themselves in the position where they were seen to be discussing what happens post independence.

[Paddington Bear]

Another reminder that mass splitting of the vote makes just about every election very unpredictable

[Wylie Coyote]

Aye, just a few…

I was thinking this last night in my exchange with PB. I tried to find some quick info on areas in Scotland where Reform have a strong following, but nothing came up.

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a strong Jaffa/Reform overlap, that and rural places where there are few or no immigrants.

HLS since 2011 has never had more than 6,332 people vote Conservative. The swing to Reform is a hell of a lot more than a few Orangemen/Protestants voting for them. Even assuming the Tory vote went to Reform that only accounts for about 60% of the Reform total. It would be a mistake to assume Reform is popular in that area for a by election simply due to that. (not suggesting you are).

Reform and their band of talk shite but talk about the popular topics is cutting through because they hit a wide range of people where as the other four parties largely play to the same groups of people they always have.

This by election was largely irrelevant, especially being close enough to the next Holyrood election. For some it would be a chance to the SNP a bloody nose with relatively little consequence. With only a 44% turnout, it is hard to say whether it is likely to be replicated across the country in the next elections.

Very much agree with that. I think some vocal Indy folk like to cling on to the idea of all Yes voters being "enlightened" progressives that tick all the "right" ideological boxes. I suspect that a decent proportion of them just want to upend the established system and burn it all down, and given that Reform offer to do that and the SNP are the establishment, with all the quangos and voluntary sector very much in the SNPs pocket, they are more than willing to switch from the SNP to Reform.

[Slick]

What the fuck is Swinney on about

John Swinney, the SNP leader, has insisted he was “absolutely right” during the campaign to call the Hamilton by-election a two-horse race between the SNP and Reform UK, despite Labour claiming the seat.

Before the poll, Swinney told voters in Scotland’s Daily Record: “Labour can’t win this by-election so if you want to beat Reform the only way to stop them is vote SNP.”

After the election, he told Sky News: “What we could see on the doorsteps is what has really transpired in this election. The Labour vote was collapsing, and it has since the election last summer, and the Reform vote was rising significantly.

“So the warning I gave to voters last week was absolutely correct.

[Sandstorm]

What the fuck is Swinney on about

John Swinney, the SNP leader, has insisted he was “absolutely right” during the campaign to call the Hamilton by-election a two-horse race between the SNP and Reform UK, despite Labour claiming the seat.

Before the poll, Swinney told voters in Scotland’s Daily Record: “Labour can’t win this by-election so if you want to beat Reform the only way to stop them is vote SNP.”

After the election, he told Sky News: “What we could see on the doorsteps is what has really transpired in this election. The Labour vote was collapsing, and it has since the election last summer, and the Reform vote was rising significantly.

“So the warning I gave to voters last week was absolutely correct.

Every politician in UK is losing their minds over Reform, saying dumb shit and looking stupid doing it. Instead just do your own job properly and Reform becomes irrelevant.

[Big D]

I was thinking this last night in my exchange with PB. I tried to find some quick info on areas in Scotland where Reform have a strong following, but nothing came up.

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a strong Jaffa/Reform overlap, that and rural places where there are few or no immigrants.

HLS since 2011 has never had more than 6,332 people vote Conservative. The swing to Reform is a hell of a lot more than a few Orangemen/Protestants voting for them. Even assuming the Tory vote went to Reform that only accounts for about 60% of the Reform total. It would be a mistake to assume Reform is popular in that area for a by election simply due to that. (not suggesting you are).

Reform and their band of talk shite but talk about the popular topics is cutting through because they hit a wide range of people where as the other four parties largely play to the same groups of people they always have.

This by election was largely irrelevant, especially being close enough to the next Holyrood election. For some it would be a chance to the SNP a bloody nose with relatively little consequence. With only a 44% turnout, it is hard to say whether it is likely to be replicated across the country in the next elections.

Very much agree with that. I think some vocal Indy folk like to cling on to the idea of all Yes voters being "enlightened" progressives that tick all the "right" ideological boxes. I suspect that a decent proportion of them just want to upend the established system and burn it all down, and given that Reform offer to do that and the SNP are the establishment, with all the quangos and voluntary sector very much in the SNPs pocket, they are more than willing to switch from the SNP to Reform.

People are also fed up being labelled extreme right/left wing just because they disagree with a left/right wing view. But that's just another gripe.

[Big D]

What the fuck is Swinney on about

John Swinney, the SNP leader, has insisted he was “absolutely right” during the campaign to call the Hamilton by-election a two-horse race between the SNP and Reform UK, despite Labour claiming the seat.

Before the poll, Swinney told voters in Scotland’s Daily Record: “Labour can’t win this by-election so if you want to beat Reform the only way to stop them is vote SNP.”

After the election, he told Sky News: “What we could see on the doorsteps is what has really transpired in this election. The Labour vote was collapsing, and it has since the election last summer, and the Reform vote was rising significantly.

“So the warning I gave to voters last week was absolutely correct.

Only two vote shares collapsed and neither were Labours.

[Paddington Bear]

What the fuck is Swinney on about

John Swinney, the SNP leader, has insisted he was “absolutely right” during the campaign to call the Hamilton by-election a two-horse race between the SNP and Reform UK, despite Labour claiming the seat.

Before the poll, Swinney told voters in Scotland’s Daily Record: “Labour can’t win this by-election so if you want to beat Reform the only way to stop them is vote SNP.”

After the election, he told Sky News: “What we could see on the doorsteps is what has really transpired in this election. The Labour vote was collapsing, and it has since the election last summer, and the Reform vote was rising significantly.

“So the warning I gave to voters last week was absolutely correct.

Every politician in UK is losing their minds over Reform, saying dumb shit and looking stupid doing it. Instead just do your own job properly and Reform becomes irrelevant.

Yes, for all the moralising about Reform there is no real defence of the record of any government of any stripe available, meaning that discredited governments end up (correctly) saying that Reform are offering snake oil but those that way inclined no longer care or are listening

[vball]

Scotland never bought into Brexit and while that was UKIP, Reform are the majority spin off party from them. So why such a large move to Reform now? Many good points above but it does signal a move in Scotland. That move aligns them with the England now in that sense. The Unionist vote will go to them. Big chance the Conservative will too. Is this a one-off ... do not think so.

[fishfoodie]

But that’ll never happen because no one from the Tories, labour or Lib Dem’s would take part. So you’re putting an impossible objective on the road to you considering it.

Has anyone ever proposed such a thing? Genuine question, I've no idea. I actually think if it was a serious proposition you would get people like Brown, McConnel, Gove, Swinney to consider it.

Not a chance. They would never put themselves in the position where they were seen to be discussing what happens post independence.

Same problem in Ireland. There's plenty of people in the ROI who can see the need for planning for reunification, & the direction of travel is clear & the demographics inevitable, but no one on the Unionist side is interested, they're all just sitting in the corner with their thumbs in their mouths rocking back & forth pretending if they don't participate it won't happen.

[Wylie Coyote]

I always find it curious that folks who say the island of Ireland becoming one political entity is inevitable and obvious often seem to think that partition of the neighbouring Island of Britain is also inevitable and blindingly obvious.

Has anyone ever proposed such a thing? Genuine question, I've no idea. I actually think if it was a serious proposition you would get people like Brown, McConnel, Gove, Swinney to consider it.

Not a chance. They would never put themselves in the position where they were seen to be discussing what happens post independence.

Same problem in Ireland. There's plenty of people in the ROI who can see the need for planning for reunification, & the direction of travel is clear & the demographics inevitable, but no one on the Unionist side is interested, they're all just sitting in the corner with their thumbs in their mouths rocking back & forth pretending if they don't participate it won't happen.

[fishfoodie]

I always find it curious that folks who say the island of Ireland becoming one political entity is inevitable and obvious often seem to think that partition of the neighbouring Island of Britain is also inevitable and blindingly obvious.

Not a chance. They would never put themselves in the position where they were seen to be discussing what happens post independence.

Same problem in Ireland. There's plenty of people in the ROI who can see the need for planning for reunification, & the direction of travel is clear & the demographics inevitable, but no one on the Unionist side is interested, they're all just sitting in the corner with their thumbs in their mouths rocking back & forth pretending if they don't participate it won't happen.

There's a big difference in the history, & timescale, & experience of the Union between NI, & Scotland & Wales

[Slick]

I always find it curious that folks who say the island of Ireland becoming one political entity is inevitable and obvious often seem to think that partition of the neighbouring Island of Britain is also inevitable and blindingly obvious.

Same problem in Ireland. There's plenty of people in the ROI who can see the need for planning for reunification, & the direction of travel is clear & the demographics inevitable, but no one on the Unionist side is interested, they're all just sitting in the corner with their thumbs in their mouths rocking back & forth pretending if they don't participate it won't happen.

There's a big difference in the history, & timescale, & experience of the Union between NI, & Scotland & Wales

I think that’s the point, there is nothing inevitable this side of the sea

[fishfoodie]

I always find it curious that folks who say the island of Ireland becoming one political entity is inevitable and obvious often seem to think that partition of the neighbouring Island of Britain is also inevitable and blindingly obvious.

There's a big difference in the history, & timescale, & experience of the Union between NI, & Scotland & Wales

I think that’s the point, there is nothing inevitable this side of the sea

True enough, & I think maybe the SNP's best chance was when the Tories were in power & their best sales point was to point South & ask if being Independent could possibly be worse.

The SNP of course didn't help their cause with their own shitshows, & their messaging needed to be better & they fell apart when they were asked fairly basic questions about what the Independent Scotland would look like; what Currency will we have for example.

You can only go so far on the emotional arguments, & then you're going to have to have substantive policies that those critical middle ground voters you need will want to see, hence my comments around the lack of engagement with Unionists in NI, they might not be enthusiastic about a United Ireland, but if they engage they can start to get their concerns on the agenda & force the Nationalists to take them on board, & they start shaping their own, or their childrens future positively.

[Biffer]

There's a big difference in the history, & timescale, & experience of the Union between NI, & Scotland & Wales

I think that’s the point, there is nothing inevitable this side of the sea

True enough, & I think maybe the SNP's best chance was when the Tories were in power & their best sales point was to point South & ask if being Independent could possibly be worse.

The SNP of course didn't help their cause with their own shitshows, & their messaging needed to be better & they fell apart when they were asked fairly basic questions about what the Independent Scotland would look like; what Currency will we have for example.

You can only go so far on the emotional arguments, & then you're going to have to have substantive policies that those critical middle ground voters you need will want to see, hence my comments around the lack of engagement with Unionists in NI, they might not be enthusiastic about a United Ireland, but if they engage they can start to get their concerns on the agenda & force the Nationalists to take them on board, & they start shaping their own, or their childrens future positively.

I think some of those questions might be more easily answered now. If it was me I’d just say fuck it we’ll join the euro.

[Slick]

I think that’s the point, there is nothing inevitable this side of the sea

True enough, & I think maybe the SNP's best chance was when the Tories were in power & their best sales point was to point South & ask if being Independent could possibly be worse.

The SNP of course didn't help their cause with their own shitshows, & their messaging needed to be better & they fell apart when they were asked fairly basic questions about what the Independent Scotland would look like; what Currency will we have for example.

You can only go so far on the emotional arguments, & then you're going to have to have substantive policies that those critical middle ground voters you need will want to see, hence my comments around the lack of engagement with Unionists in NI, they might not be enthusiastic about a United Ireland, but if they engage they can start to get their concerns on the agenda & force the Nationalists to take them on board, & they start shaping their own, or their childrens future positively.

I think some of those questions might be more easily answered now. If it was me I’d just say fuck it we’ll join the euro.

But then we’d have to pretend that’s actually an option

[Biffer]

True enough, & I think maybe the SNP's best chance was when the Tories were in power & their best sales point was to point South & ask if being Independent could possibly be worse.

The SNP of course didn't help their cause with their own shitshows, & their messaging needed to be better & they fell apart when they were asked fairly basic questions about what the Independent Scotland would look like; what Currency will we have for example.

You can only go so far on the emotional arguments, & then you're going to have to have substantive policies that those critical middle ground voters you need will want to see, hence my comments around the lack of engagement with Unionists in NI, they might not be enthusiastic about a United Ireland, but if they engage they can start to get their concerns on the agenda & force the Nationalists to take them on board, & they start shaping their own, or their childrens future positively.

I think some of those questions might be more easily answered now. If it was me I’d just say fuck it we’ll join the euro.

But then we’d have to pretend that’s actually an option

I dunno, laws still outlay aligned, and in five or ten years from now we could well be much closer again in terms of phytosanitary stuff, customs, market access etc (equally we could have descended into full on pseudo fascist state under reform). But to me that’d be the aim, Indy within the eu.

And the eu would have us back like a shot, just to stick two fingers up to RUK.

[fishfoodie]

I think some of those questions might be more easily answered now. If it was me I’d just say fuck it we’ll join the euro.

But then we’d have to pretend that’s actually an option

I dunno, laws still outlay aligned, and in five or ten years from now we could well be much closer again in terms of phytosanitary stuff, customs, market access etc (equally we could have descended into full on pseudo fascist state under reform). But to me that’d be the aim, Indy within the eu.

And the eu would have us back like a shot, just to stick two fingers up to RUK.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that !

The EU made it pretty bloody clear that any aspirations of the UK to rejoin were dead for a long time; as they'd only considerate it seriously when the majority of Political Parties had rejoining as a Policy.

Any newly Independent Scotland is going to have the same hurdle, & Labour & the Tories can just block it.

[Tichtheid]

But then we’d have to pretend that’s actually an option

I dunno, laws still outlay aligned, and in five or ten years from now we could well be much closer again in terms of phytosanitary stuff, customs, market access etc (equally we could have descended into full on pseudo fascist state under reform). But to me that’d be the aim, Indy within the eu.

And the eu would have us back like a shot, just to stick two fingers up to RUK.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that !

The EU made it pretty bloody clear that any aspirations of the UK to rejoin were dead for a long time; as they'd only considerate it seriously when the majority of Political Parties had rejoining as a Policy.

Any newly Independent Scotland is going to have the same hurdle, & Labour & the Tories can just block it.

I reckon Scottish Labour in an Indy Scotland, off the lease from London, would gladly represent the Scottish electorate on rejoining.

The Tories and Reform would oppose it of course, the idiotic dicks that they are.

[Slick]

But then we’d have to pretend that’s actually an option

I dunno, laws still outlay aligned, and in five or ten years from now we could well be much closer again in terms of phytosanitary stuff, customs, market access etc (equally we could have descended into full on pseudo fascist state under reform). But to me that’d be the aim, Indy within the eu.

And the eu would have us back like a shot, just to stick two fingers up to RUK.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that !

The EU made it pretty bloody clear that any aspirations of the UK to rejoin were dead for a long time; as they'd only considerate it seriously when the majority of Political Parties had rejoining as a Policy.

Any newly Independent Scotland is going to have the same hurdle, & Labour & the Tories can just block it.

Not to mention the economic hurdles, the fact that some EU members just won’t have it etc etc. It’s just fantasy stuff

[robmatic]

I dunno, laws still outlay aligned, and in five or ten years from now we could well be much closer again in terms of phytosanitary stuff, customs, market access etc (equally we could have descended into full on pseudo fascist state under reform). But to me that’d be the aim, Indy within the eu.

And the eu would have us back like a shot, just to stick two fingers up to RUK.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that !

The EU made it pretty bloody clear that any aspirations of the UK to rejoin were dead for a long time; as they'd only considerate it seriously when the majority of Political Parties had rejoining as a Policy.

Any newly Independent Scotland is going to have the same hurdle, & Labour & the Tories can just block it.

I reckon Scottish Labour in an Indy Scotland, off the lease from London, would gladly represent the Scottish electorate on rejoining.

The Tories and Reform would oppose it of course, the idiotic dicks that they are.

They may be idiotic dicks, but there is no sign of a consensus emerging in the Scottish electorate that would preclude them representing a substantial proportion of the people if they did oppose it.

[Tichtheid]

I wouldn't bet the farm on that !

The EU made it pretty bloody clear that any aspirations of the UK to rejoin were dead for a long time; as they'd only considerate it seriously when the majority of Political Parties had rejoining as a Policy.

Any newly Independent Scotland is going to have the same hurdle, & Labour & the Tories can just block it.

I reckon Scottish Labour in an Indy Scotland, off the lease from London, would gladly represent the Scottish electorate on rejoining.

The Tories and Reform would oppose it of course, the idiotic dicks that they are.

They may be idiotic dicks, but there is no sign of a consensus emerging in the Scottish electorate that would preclude them representing a substantial proportion of the people if they did oppose it.

The way I see it panning out, if it happens, is that post-Indy, there is a referendum on rejoining, if that passes then it would be incumbent on the parties to represent the electorate, just as it has been since the Brexit vote over the whole of the UK.

[fishfoodie]

I reckon Scottish Labour in an Indy Scotland, off the lease from London, would gladly represent the Scottish electorate on rejoining.

The Tories and Reform would oppose it of course, the idiotic dicks that they are.

They may be idiotic dicks, but there is no sign of a consensus emerging in the Scottish electorate that would preclude them representing a substantial proportion of the people if they did oppose it.

The way I see it panning out, if it happens, is that post-Indy, there is a referendum on rejoining, if that passes then it would be incumbent on the parties to represent the electorate, just as it has been since the Brexit vote over the whole of the UK.

It'd be interesting to have some provisional Scottish rejoin agreement which has notional support from the EU first; that would mean that you weren't just voting for Independence, but for EU membership, which might win over some folks who weren't particularly Nationalists, but definitely felt Leave was a mistake & wanted back in.

[Slick]

They may be idiotic dicks, but there is no sign of a consensus emerging in the Scottish electorate that would preclude them representing a substantial proportion of the people if they did oppose it.

The way I see it panning out, if it happens, is that post-Indy, there is a referendum on rejoining, if that passes then it would be incumbent on the parties to represent the electorate, just as it has been since the Brexit vote over the whole of the UK.

It'd be interesting to have some provisional Scottish rejoin agreement which has notional support from the EU first; that would mean that you weren't just voting for Independence, but for EU membership, which might win over some folks who weren't particularly Nationalists, but definitely felt Leave was a mistake & wanted back in.

Sorry mate, but

[Tichtheid]

They may be idiotic dicks, but there is no sign of a consensus emerging in the Scottish electorate that would preclude them representing a substantial proportion of the people if they did oppose it.

The way I see it panning out, if it happens, is that post-Indy, there is a referendum on rejoining, if that passes then it would be incumbent on the parties to represent the electorate, just as it has been since the Brexit vote over the whole of the UK.

It'd be interesting to have some provisional Scottish rejoin agreement which has notional support from the EU first; that would mean that you weren't just voting for Independence, but for EU membership, which might win over some folks who weren't particularly Nationalists, but definitely felt Leave was a mistake & wanted back in.

That's a fair point, I would hope there would be some kind of agreement in principle - the current Scottish Government's position is that they would want to apply to re-join as an independent country

[Slick]

The way I see it panning out, if it happens, is that post-Indy, there is a referendum on rejoining, if that passes then it would be incumbent on the parties to represent the electorate, just as it has been since the Brexit vote over the whole of the UK.

It'd be interesting to have some provisional Scottish rejoin agreement which has notional support from the EU first; that would mean that you weren't just voting for Independence, but for EU membership, which might win over some folks who weren't particularly Nationalists, but definitely felt Leave was a mistake & wanted back in.

That's a fair point, I would hope there would be some kind of agreement in principle - the current Scottish Government's position is that they would want to apply to re-join as an independent country

Why do you even discuss this, you are perfectly aware it is total fantasy

[Tichtheid]

It'd be interesting to have some provisional Scottish rejoin agreement which has notional support from the EU first; that would mean that you weren't just voting for Independence, but for EU membership, which might win over some folks who weren't particularly Nationalists, but definitely felt Leave was a mistake & wanted back in.

That's a fair point, I would hope there would be some kind of agreement in principle - the current Scottish Government's position is that they would want to apply to re-join as an independent country

Why do you even discuss this, you are perfectly aware it is total fantasy

The Scottish government's position is to apply to re-join. https://www.gov.scot/publications/indep ... ean-union/

[Slick]

That's a fair point, I would hope there would be some kind of agreement in principle - the current Scottish Government's position is that they would want to apply to re-join as an independent country

Why do you even discuss this, you are perfectly aware it is total fantasy

The Scottish government's position is to apply to re-join. https://www.gov.scot/publications/indep ... ean-union/

It might well be, and if we had independence I would 100% agree. But you are an extremely precise and well researched individual and you know fine well that a pre agreement from the EU is utter fantasy and impossible for any number of reasons, so why pretend otherwise.

[fishfoodie]

Why do you even discuss this, you are perfectly aware it is total fantasy

The Scottish government's position is to apply to re-join. https://www.gov.scot/publications/indep ... ean-union/

It might well be, and if we had independence I would 100% agree. But you are an extremely precise and well researched individual and you know fine well that a pre agreement from the EU is utter fantasy and impossible for any number of reasons, so why pretend otherwise.

Well it's not going to be something that can happen immediately, but you can form a working group with Academics, Economists , Legal experts et al & make a list of all the Laws, & Standards etc that will need to change, & then get the EU to agree that these are the gaps, which obviously should be slight given you were members, then the you put together draft legislation & a schedule to implement the changes.

The difficult bit is obviously the Euro, because there you'd have to meet the entry standards everyone else did, so I suppose on day one you'd have the Scottish pound, which was worth the same as GBP, but a number have Countries have gone thru the process, so it's no mystery, & once you have credible plans, & you show you're serious you'll convince more people than the hand wavy stuff & just telling people it's be easy, & "Trust us"