Another 737 down

[Calculon]

Capt Steeeve seems like a tool, and his theory of the pilots causing the crash by mistakenly raising the flaps instead of the landing gear seems really fucking stupid

[Torquemada 1420]

This is an interesting one:


Here is a snip I've taken from another Dreamliner take off


and comparing with the (now improved) video in the video link above, for me it's inconclusive whether Air India had flaps deployed.

Careful Torque, a lot of actual 787 pilots are debunking everything Capn Steeeve is saying.

Oh. I'm not agreeing with him: jury is out for me and everyone at the airfield. But that clear footage he had was something new for me which
a) brought in the possibility of the RAT and
b) gave a clearer view of the trailing edges..... although I'm still not sure on flaps.

I was immediately wary of a guy who sits in his uniform for the blog..........

[Yeeb]

Torq, you ever post on main PR any more as there’s a crash thread on there that’s interesting .

[Yeeb]

This is an interesting one:


Here is a snip I've taken from another Dreamliner take off


and comparing with the (now improved) video in the video link above, for me it's inconclusive whether Air India had flaps deployed.

Re the flaps, if you watch YouTube of a Dreamliner doing a sharp take off and climb as a demonstration (so presumably lightly loaded, good pilot on board , everything triple checked ) you can see the flaps clearly down on the steep climb, very different from the crash video where if they are down it’s at first setting only.

Crashed wing shows leading edge slats deployed at least , unsure how much these help if power and flap settings don’t match.



Can see the clear zig zag between where flaps end and ailerons are on trailing edge - no zig zag on crash vid

[fishfoodie]

Both the FDR & CVR have now been recovered, so hopefully they're both in good shape & the investigators will start to get some answers.

[Torquemada 1420]

Re the flaps, if you watch YouTube of a Dreamliner doing a sharp take off and climb as a demonstration (so presumably lightly loaded, good pilot on board , everything triple checked ) you can see the flaps clearly down on the steep climb, very different from the crash video where if they are down it’s at first setting only.

Crashed wing shows leading edge slats deployed at least , unsure how much these help if power and flap settings don’t match.



Can see the clear zig zag between where flaps end and ailerons are on trailing edge - no zig zag on crash vid

Slats would increase the critical AOA so I suppose might have been (re)deployed to try and lower the risk of stall?

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Both the FDR & CVR have now been recovered, so hopefully they're both in good shape & the investigators will start to get some answers.

The 787 doesn't use separate FDR & CDR. It uses an EAFR which combines both aspects and there are two of them.

Assuming no damage, the investigation team has had all the data since they recovered the first one. They likely have a pretty good idea of what caused the crash already.

EDIT. Looks like there are differences between the front and rear EAFRs, including how they are powered which might mean one has more data than the other.

[Calculon]

This is an interesting one:


Here is a snip I've taken from another Dreamliner take off


and comparing with the (now improved) video in the video link above, for me it's inconclusive whether Air India had flaps deployed.

Re the flaps, if you watch YouTube of a Dreamliner doing a sharp take off and climb as a demonstration (so presumably lightly loaded, good pilot on board , everything triple checked ) you can see the flaps clearly down on the steep climb, very different from the crash video where if they are down it’s at first setting only.

Crashed wing shows leading edge slats deployed at least , unsure how much these help if power and flap settings don’t match.



Can see the clear zig zag between where flaps end and ailerons are on trailing edge - no zig zag on crash vid

Crashed video shows the flaps deployed and even if they weren't the plane managed to take off and climb to around 600ft when there was a massive loss of thrust - and only then went down

[Yeeb]

Won’t lie , not my first ‘needed bigger flaps ‘ …

Etc

[Torquemada 1420]

Crashed video shows the flaps deployed and even if they weren't the plane managed to take off and climb to around 600ft when there was a massive loss of thrust - and only then went down

See earlier ( I think). It almost certainly could not have got off the ground, fully loaded, without flaps deployed.

I can't wait for the reason for a catastrophic loss of power to 2 engines (assuming cause), simultaneously. Do we know if this one was GE or Trents?

[Calculon]

Don't know. Guy I linked speculates most likely due to fuel valves closing but doesn't say why they shut. Hopefully will find out sooner rather than later.

[fishfoodie]

Don't know. Guy I linked speculates most likely due to fuel valves closing but doesn't say why they shut. Hopefully will find out sooner rather than later.

Obligatory Fr Ted reference



Why on earth would either Pilot be going anywhere near fuel controls during takeoff ????

He sounds like he's like most of the Youtube experts, just flinging shit at the wall and seeing what sticks !

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Crashed video shows the flaps deployed and even if they weren't the plane managed to take off and climb to around 600ft when there was a massive loss of thrust - and only then went down

See earlier ( I think). It almost certainly could not have got off the ground, fully loaded, without flaps deployed.

I can't wait for the reason for a catastrophic loss of power to 2 engines (assuming cause), simultaneously. Do we know if this one was GE or Trents?

GE, although it's highly impobable the engines themselves were the problem. But then, this whole incident is highly unlilely in the first place.

[Calculon]

Don't know. Guy I linked speculates most likely due to fuel valves closing but doesn't say why they shut. Hopefully will find out sooner rather than later.

Obligatory Fr Ted reference



Why on earth would either Pilot be going anywhere near fuel controls during takeoff ????

He sounds like he's like most of the Youtube experts, just flinging shit at the wall and seeing what sticks !

Why you think it's the pilots fault? At this stage the only pretty clear cause is the loss of thrust, nobody knows why this loss, which he makes clear.

[Torquemada 1420]

GE, although it's highly impobable the engines themselves were the problem. But then, this whole incident is highly unlilely in the first place.

Very. Rarely are these events down to a single cause but more usually, a combo. of smaller issues that combine to create catastrophe.