B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread

[SaintK]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

[Tichtheid]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

The scrum went well, the lineout was honking. There was little cohesion in the midfield in attack and particularly in defence. Both those negatives will improve as the tour goes on.

It’s far too early to be dissing individuals, these players are not donkeys, but we all have our baggage to carry in that department, as was seen on this thread and around SM in general and on into a couple of media reports I’ve seen this morning.

The coaches have a lot of work to do.

[Blackmac]

It would seem that Facebook experts are shocked that a scratch team with their eye on the plane to Australia didn't play great in a warm up match. Who would have guessed.

[Punter15]

It would seem that Facebook experts are shocked that a scratch team with their eye on the plane to Australia didn't play great in a warm up match. Who would have guessed.

Against the 5th ranked team in the world, and getting thrashed by 4 points. Yep, shocking.

[Yeeb]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

The scrum went well, the lineout was honking. There was little cohesion in the midfield in attack and particularly in defence. Both those negatives will improve as the tour goes on.

It’s far too early to be dissing individuals, these players are not donkeys, but we all have our baggage to carry in that department, as was seen on this thread and around SM in general and on into a couple of media reports I’ve seen this morning.

The coaches have a lot of work to do.

Thanks chaps , more entertaining reading you than trawling social media or even watching the game apparently

[SaintK]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

The scrum went well, the lineout was honking. There was little cohesion in the midfield in attack and particularly in defence. Both those negatives will improve as the tour goes on.

It’s far too early to be dissing individuals, these players are not donkeys, but we all have our baggage to carry in that department, as was seen on this thread and around SM in general and on into a couple of media reports I’ve seen this morning.

The coaches have a lot of work to do.

Fair summary agree completely about cohesion
I thought both Genge and Bealham had excellent all round games though Furlong looks a shadow of his former Lions self.
Can't see that centre pairing starting the tests both too similar.

[Paddington Bear]

Pleased that we learned that the players from [insert nation here] were excellent and let down by the players from [insert nation here].

Argentina are a serious side and should be no one’s idea of a training run. I’d be very interested to see how a fully loaded England would go against them in a three test series this summer, can’t imagine we’d win 3-0.

Not sure we learned anything new really, the players who are fairly widely seen as not Lions test players (LCD, Earl, VDM, Hansen, Morgan, Williams, Pollock, Mitchell) showed why that is and the rest muddled through as well as they could. M.Smith full back experiment once again hopelessly exposed.

We’ll see, but asking players in this day and age to whip themselves into test match shape in boiling heat at the end of a full bore season is asking a hell of a lot.

[dpedin]

Pleased that we learned that the players from [insert nation here] were excellent and let down by the players from [insert nation here].

Argentina are a serious side and should be no one’s idea of a training run. I’d be very interested to see how a fully loaded England would go against them in a three test series this summer, can’t imagine we’d win 3-0.

Not sure we learned anything new really, the players who are fairly widely seen as not Lions test players (LCD, Earl, VDM, Hansen, Morgan, Williams, Pollock, Mitchell) showed why that is and the rest muddled through as well as they could. M.Smith full back experiment once again hopelessly exposed.

We’ll see, but asking players in this day and age to whip themselves into test match shape in boiling heat at the end of a full bore season is asking a hell of a lot.

Don't disagree with much of that but the last sentence also applies to Argentina who were also without a raft of first choice players, players who have come off the end of a long hard season, had little preparation time and yet seemed to have a bit more energy and cohesiveness about their game.

I was just disappointed with the lack of control and direction that the Lions had on the game. Lots of individuals but little cohesion. I thought they would adopt a more pragmatic game plan, keep it tight and use powerful pack better before opening up a little in 2nd half. I suppose the poor line out didnt help though?

[ASMO]

there is a lot of flak going Marcus Smiths way but i re-watched the game in the cold light of day this morning and i have to say i kinda disagree, the inside backs and wingers tackling and positioning were nothing short of shocking, the number of times he was left with a 2 on 1 because the inside backs were too narrow was too many to mention. I defy any 15 to thrive when exposed like that. The ball that eventually did get passed out when the Lions were attacking was inaccurate, often just thrown out with no look passes passed either behind the oncoming player, to nobody at all or to the opposition. The 12 13 partnership just doesn't work, Fin Smith was a bit like a rabbit in the headlights at times and the wingers, especially VDM, were both very poor, so to lay the blame all on Marcus Smith is at best disingenuous.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

there is a lot of flak going Marcus Smiths way but i re-watched the game in the cold light of day this morning and i have to say i kinda disagree, the inside backs and wingers tackling and positioning were nothing short of shocking, the number of times he was left with a 2 on 1 because the inside backs were too narrow was too many to mention. I defy any 15 to thrive when exposed like that. The ball that eventually did get passed out when the Lions were attacking was inaccurate, often just thrown out with no look passes passed either behind the oncoming player, to nobody at all or to the opposition. The 12 13 partnership just doesn't work, Fin Smith was a bit like a rabbit in the headlights at times and the wingers, especially VDM, were both very poor, so to lay the blame all on Marcus Smith is at best disingenuous.

After playing in the same team as Slade for so long, Marcus should have adapted to being let down by his centres by now.

[Paddington Bear]

Pleased that we learned that the players from [insert nation here] were excellent and let down by the players from [insert nation here].

Argentina are a serious side and should be no one’s idea of a training run. I’d be very interested to see how a fully loaded England would go against them in a three test series this summer, can’t imagine we’d win 3-0.

Not sure we learned anything new really, the players who are fairly widely seen as not Lions test players (LCD, Earl, VDM, Hansen, Morgan, Williams, Pollock, Mitchell) showed why that is and the rest muddled through as well as they could. M.Smith full back experiment once again hopelessly exposed.

We’ll see, but asking players in this day and age to whip themselves into test match shape in boiling heat at the end of a full bore season is asking a hell of a lot.

Don't disagree with much of that but the last sentence also applies to Argentina who were also without a raft of first choice players, players who have come off the end of a long hard season, had little preparation time and yet seemed to have a bit more energy and cohesiveness about their game.

I was just disappointed with the lack of control and direction that the Lions had on the game. Lots of individuals but little cohesion. I thought they would adopt a more pragmatic game plan, keep it tight and use powerful pack better before opening up a little in 2nd half. I suppose the poor line out didnt help though?

No doubt about that, but with that said Argentina play regular international rugby as a unit, I suspect England Scotland and Ireland would have looked more cohesive last night than the Lions did.

[Slick]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

I don’t think anyone was being particularly serious, but I’m sure you knew that.

Genge was good, and Bealam seemed to do OK. Apart from that it was all a bit meh, but can’t expect too much more against a very good team

I do worry about Itoje’s captaincy a bit to be honest, but let’s see how we progress

Edit: I’m also worried about that Farrell is going to stick slavishly to the Ireland style of play which is very structured and I’m not not sure can be replicated on a short tour. Will be interesting to see how much he can adapt

[BagfordViper]

I agree. I think there are a few selection and coaching issues to address. The centres standing narrowly in defence was odd, since it left the wings exposed. That is a systems problem; neither centre normally plays that way. A quick/blind offload game is all very well, but ir doesn't work well when the defence are up In your face because things have started tart the 10 in a deep position. F Smith needs to stand much closer up.

Some of the selection also left me puzzled. Aki and Tuipolatu are very similar, though I tend to think Tuipolatu the more skilled player. What was pairing them all about? The TV coverage only offers moving snapshots, but I didn't see them exchange a word all game.

I think VDM is a great broken-field runner, and a terrific finisher, but he ain't no footballer, back-flip passes or no. He and Freeman had Argentines all over them chasing well placed kicks, so I think they don't merit all of the flak they've had, but their defensive play wasn't good.

Are Mitchell and Williams really two of the three best nines Farrell could have picked? I thought Williams was an improvement when he came on, but in the last 10 or so.minutes he was so slow to the breakdown I wondered if he was carrying an injury.

Marcus Smith is not a full back and to be frank, I don't think he should be touring. His positional play is a mess, he can't tackle and his attacking tricks are being read all-too easily. I've seen him described elsewhere as hopety-skipety, and a butterfly, and while I readily concede he has the odd flourish in attack, it irritates me he is touring ahead of other more solid and consistently dangerous players.

Finally, the back row seemed out of balance. All did good things individually, but as a unit they were ineffectual. Someone needs to tell Pollock to stop loitering in the backs waiting for the wonder pass and to do a bit more graft. I also find him and Marcus Smith's yak to the other players irksome. Senior players playing well can direct and encourage others, but if you're very young or playing like a drain, belt up and concentrate on your own game. Ir reminds me a bit of Sam Burgess a year or two back and I never sensed he went down too well with his colleagues. In fairness, the other players don't seem too fazed by it, so it's maybe just me. I nonetheless seriously question Pollock's selection. Picking an over-confident greenhorn on the basis of half a dozen good games is a very questionable way to proceed. Therew were plenty of excellent alternatives.

There were good things too. The front rows went well apart from the hookers' darts. I thought the second rows were fine too. Daly was something of a revelatiion.. But I reckon if JG-P or Finn Russell wrre to fall over, the Wobs may well not prove to be the quite pushover some seem to expect.

These are all of course, just impressions; others may very reasonably see things differently. But I doubt I'm alone in my misgivings

And a very big hat tip to Argentina. They played extremely well and fully deserved their win.

[Blackmac]

Just watched it for the first time.
Marcus Smith should not be on the tour. He is just not good enough in any position. Him and Freeman were totally AWOL for the first and third tries. Tackling for the first and positioning for the second. His dummy to Duhan on his own try line was just typical of the frailties in his game. It's almost as if he is thinking more of his highlight reel than the outcome.
Freeman came on to a decent attacking effort in the second half but it's odd how his two lost high balls are ignored yet Duhan seems to be getting slaughtered for his two. It's also awful listening to the commentators blowing smoke up his arse every time he touches the ball.
Bealham and Schoeman both did well. Beirne did well and I thought both Curry and Earls did well, although Curry had a few mistakes trying to force the play and it's about time the refs started pinging him for his nonsense in the scrum.
Genge was excellent.
Sione was just what you would expect, totally solid. Not sure him and Aki work and I struggle to see how Huwipoloto can be ignored if they both stay fit.
I thought Duhan had a great first half. The fact he is being criticised for being unable to cover the two man overlap on the first try is nonsense, that was entirely down to Smith and Freeman.
I thought Finn Smith was okay but is not in any way going to challenge Russell.
LCD awful, Itoje quiet but far from bad. I actually struggle to see why folk are saying Pollock was terrible. He made a couple of mistakes but no more than many others on the pitch. I do hope a mature head takes him under his wing on the tour and helps him grow up a bit.
I think they all had their eyes on the plane to Australia and will improve dramatically.

[Punter15]

Very good. The yapping about Duhan is completely overblown and largely the result of people not liking the fact that he’s a big Saffa. Decent first half and no worse mistakes than Freeman.

The biggest criticism (maybe after Marcus) is Maro’s captaincy. Did nothing to calm the harum scarum bullshit or shape the team. Just got sucked into it.

[Kawazaki]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

[Tichtheid]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

You really don't know the first thing about rugby.

[Blackmac]

Didn’t watch the game, who was good, who was shite?

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

Absolute fucking nonsense. Just confirming your appalling lack of credibility on this bored.
Tuipoloto was probably the most solid player on the pitch and Duhan did nothing worse than Freeman.

[Slick]

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

You really don't know the first thing about rugby.

He’s the club bore who played a year at school back in the day

[Slick]

Just watched it for the first time.
Marcus Smith should not be on the tour. He is just not good enough in any position. Him and Freeman were totally AWOL for the first and third tries. Tackling for the first and positioning for the second. His dummy to Duhan on his own try line was just typical of the frailties in his game. It's almost as if he is thinking more of his highlight reel than the outcome.
Freeman came on to a decent attacking effort in the second half but it's odd how his two lost high balls are ignored yet Duhan seems to be getting slaughtered for his two. It's also awful listening to the commentators blowing smoke up his arse every time he touches the ball.
Bealham and Schoeman both did well. Beirne did well and I thought both Curry and Earls did well, although Curry had a few mistakes trying to force the play and it's about time the refs started pinging him for his nonsense in the scrum.
Genge was excellent.
Sione was just what you would expect, totally solid. Not sure him and Aki work and I struggle to see how Huwipoloto can be ignored if they both stay fit.
I thought Duhan had a great first half. The fact he is being criticised for being unable to cover the two man overlap on the first try is nonsense, that was entirely down to Smith and Freeman.
I thought Finn Smith was okay but is not in any way going to challenge Russell.
LCD awful, Itoje quiet but far from bad. I actually struggle to see why folk are saying Pollock was terrible. He made a couple of mistakes but no more than many others on the pitch. I do hope a mature head takes him under his wing on the tour and helps him grow up a bit.
I think they all had their eyes on the plane to Australia and will improve dramatically.

I didn’t realise Pollock was getting shit, like you say, he was no better or worse than anyone else. It was funny seeing him get in his own teams faces and being completely blanked though

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

Absolute fucking nonsense. Just confirming your appalling lack of credibility on this bored.
Tuipoloto was probably the most solid player on the pitch and Duhan did nothing worse than Freeman.

'Didn't fuck up any more than somebody else' isn't how I usually defend a player.

Isgro spent 80 minutes making Duhan his bitch. How somebody who's 6'4" can be so shit in the air is baffling. In a more important game that's a career limiting performance.

[Kawazaki]

Brief summary so you don't have to go back on the thread
All the English players were shite. All the Scottish players were brilliant
And what the fuck is Marcus Smith doing on tour?

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

You really don't know the first thing about rugby.

You couldn't be more wrong. I call it as I see it. No preferences. Both plastic centres were shite. The plastic Jock wing was awful. Truly terrible.

Marcus Smith is not good enough.

Finn Russell is the best 10 on tour. No question.

[Tichtheid]

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

You really don't know the first thing about rugby.

You couldn't be more wrong. I call it as I see it. No preferences.

Really?

Practically every sneering word that drips from your keyboard is about how shite a player is, unless it's a Saracens player.

No credibility.

[Kawazaki]

You really don't know the first thing about rugby.

You couldn't be more wrong. I call it as I see it. No preferences.

Really?

Practically every sneering word that drips from your keyboard is about how shite a player is, unless it's a Saracens player.

No credibility.

It was a sneering performance was it not?

Earl and Itoje didn't look at their best either. Earl isn't an 8.

Daly looked every inch a test player though. Thought he added something to the team when he came on.

You stick to your hill defending plastics.

[Tichtheid]

Tuipulotu 12 passes, 15 carries, 84m made, 2 clean breaks 7 defenders beaten 0 offloads. (on the park from either side, only Freeman beat more defenders)
vdMerwe 3 passes, 7 carries, 42m made, 1 clean break, 2 defenders beaten 3 offloads (I don't know why they are counted differently to passes)

For comparison only, I have no opinion on Daly at all, with the caveat of the shorter game time.

Daly 6 passes, 3 runs, 1m made, 0 clean breaks, 2 defenders beaten, 2 offloads

Defence;

Tuipulotu 2 turnovers conceded, 4 tackles made, 0 tackles missed
vd Merwe 1 turnover conceded, 1 tackle made, 1 tackle missed
Daly, 0 turnovers conceded, 0 tackles made, 1 tackle missed

All numbers from ESPN.


Anyone watching that game who knew the first thing about the sport would have seen how Tuipulotu moving in to 12 improved his own game and the team performance.
https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstat ... gue/268565


I'm not going down this rabbit hole every day for the next six weeks or whatever.

There are credible contributors to this forum who I'm happy to interact with.

[Kawazaki]

Fuck me, the stat man. Now I know you know fuck all.



You should go on the Quins forum, their stats told them they should have won the Premiership this year!

[Tichtheid]

I wonder if professional coaches and selectors contemptuously ignore the stats, or do they use them, along with other data that we can't see, like the GPS stuff and numbers from training to make an informed decision on their selections?

Hmmm

[Blackmac]

That's a very Sweaty-centric opinion.

The plastic jock on the wing was the worst player on the pitch. The plastic jock in the centre was nearly as shite. The plastic jock in the front row was ok.

Absolute fucking nonsense. Just confirming your appalling lack of credibility on this bored.
Tuipoloto was probably the most solid player on the pitch and Duhan did nothing worse than Freeman.

'Didn't fuck up any more than somebody else' isn't how I usually defend a player.

Isgro spent 80 minutes making Duhan his bitch. How somebody who's 6'4" can be so shit in the air is baffling. In a more important game that's a career limiting performance.

Really. That's a clever trick when Duhan went off injured after 59 minutes. No one has ever claimed Duhan is strong in the air but he lost two aerial duels, which I believe is the same as Freeman on the other wing, other than that I fail to see what he did wrong and he made great use of what little chances he got, so how that is a career ending performance is beyond me.
The bias in which people view these performance is ridiculous.
Greenwood actually said that Freeman made his first mistake of the match in the last 10 minutes, that should be a career ending performance as a commentator.

[Punter15]

You really don't know the first thing about rugby.

You couldn't be more wrong. I call it as I see it. No preferences.

Really?

Practically every sneering word that drips from your keyboard is about how shite a player is, unless it's a Saracens player.

No credibility.

I’m sure I read somewhere that his wife ran off with a Rod Stewart impersonator hence the particular dribbling nonsense reserved for Scots. He can’t even get that right, sad little race baiter. Never forget why he got banned from the other place.

[Kawazaki]

I wonder if professional coaches and selectors contemptuously ignore the stats, or do they use them, along with other data that we can't see, like the GPS stuff and numbers from training to make an informed decision on their selections?

Hmmm

The Lions midfield was awful. Did you not see the Argie centres take it to pieces or were you taking a loo break?

[Blackmac]

Fuck me, the stat man. Now I know you know fuck all.



You should go on the Quins forum, their stats told them they should have won the Premiership this year!

You may as well have said "blah, blah, blah", whilst standing at the end of the bar in your faded rugby jersey whilst everyone ignores you and raises their eyebrows. That's how everyone on here views you, but typically you lack any self awareness to see it. There is one of you in every clubhouse.

[Tichtheid]

I wonder if professional coaches and selectors contemptuously ignore the stats, or do they use them, along with other data that we can't see, like the GPS stuff and numbers from training to make an informed decision on their selections?

Hmmm

The Lions midfield was awful. Did you not see the Argie centres take it to pieces or were you taking a loo break?

Read my post on the subject from this morning.

[Biffer]

Shall we all stop putting 50p in the dickhead?

[Kawazaki]

Fuck me, the stat man. Now I know you know fuck all.



You should go on the Quins forum, their stats told them they should have won the Premiership this year!

You may as well have said "blah, blah, blah", whilst standing at the end of the bar in your faded rugby jersey whilst everyone ignores you and raises their eyebrows. That's how everyone on here views you, but typically you lack any self awareness to see it. There is one of you in every clubhouse.

The only people with no self awareness on this forum are Jocks.

[Punter15]

Shall we all stop putting 50p in the dickhead?

[Kawazaki]

I wonder if professional coaches and selectors contemptuously ignore the stats, or do they use them, along with other data that we can't see, like the GPS stuff and numbers from training to make an informed decision on their selections?

Hmmm

The Lions midfield was awful. Did you not see the Argie centres take it to pieces or were you taking a loo break?

Read my post on the subject from this morning.

Precis? Was it Fin Smith was shite, Tuipulotu was excellent per chance?

[Punter15]

Fuck me, the stat man. Now I know you know fuck all.



You should go on the Quins forum, their stats told them they should have won the Premiership this year!

You may as well have said "blah, blah, blah", whilst standing at the end of the bar in your faded rugby jersey whilst everyone ignores you and raises their eyebrows. That's how everyone on here views you, but typically you lack any self awareness to see it. There is one of you in every


The only people with no self awareness on this forum are Jocks.

Jocks, Sweaties, Bog Trotters, Frogs. Just bantz from The Male Online.

[Kawazaki]

You may as well have said "blah, blah, blah", whilst standing at the end of the bar in your faded rugby jersey whilst everyone ignores you and raises their eyebrows. That's how everyone on here views you, but typically you lack any self awareness to see it. There is one of you in every


The only people with no self awareness on this forum are Jocks.

Jocks, Sweaties, Bog Trotters, Frogs. Just bantz yeah?

Soy boy betas who play on the wing for the fifths twice a year as well.

[Biffer]

Shall we all stop putting 50p in the dickhead?

No idea what the fuck this is about

[sockwithaticket]

Shall we all stop putting 50p in the dickhead?

No idea what the fuck this is about

I would assume it means stop feeding Toga.