B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread

[Poshprop]

Finlay Calder is the guest on The Good The Bad and The rugby this week. Not very often you hear from him and I would love to hear a lot more from him. The 89 Lions was the first Lions tour I really remember and it cemented my love for rugby and Calder was a big part of that. Its a good show but they could could have easily got another 3 or 4 hours out of it , well worth a listen.

[Kawazaki]

Finlay Calder is the guest on The Good The Bad and The rugby this week. Not very often you hear from him and I would love to hear a lot more from him. The 89 Lions was the first Lions tour I really remember and it cemented my love for rugby and Calder was a big part of that. Its a good show but they could could have easily got another 3 or 4 hours out of it , well worth a listen.

Yes, he is very good. A very humble and modest Scot.

Superb player, hard as teak.

[Slick]

The media coverage of the Lions is incredibly negative.

You expect it from The Walrus (he’s been on a few tours you know?), but everyone else seems to be joining in

[Dogbert]

Finlay Calder is the guest on The Good The Bad and The rugby this week. Not very often you hear from him and I would love to hear a lot more from him. The 89 Lions was the first Lions tour I really remember and it cemented my love for rugby and Calder was a big part of that. Its a good show but they could could have easily got another 3 or 4 hours out of it , well worth a listen.

Yes, he is very good. A very humble and modest Scot.

Superb player, hard as teak.

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

[dpedin]

Finlay Calder is the guest on The Good The Bad and The rugby this week. Not very often you hear from him and I would love to hear a lot more from him. The 89 Lions was the first Lions tour I really remember and it cemented my love for rugby and Calder was a big part of that. Its a good show but they could could have easily got another 3 or 4 hours out of it , well worth a listen.

Yes, he is very good. A very humble and modest Scot.

Superb player, hard as teak.

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

[Slick]

Yes, he is very good. A very humble and modest Scot.

Superb player, hard as teak.

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

When I first moved up to Edinburgh for Uni in the mid 90's I had a game for Edinburgh Accies 3rd XV against Stew Mel 3rd's at full back and Calder was having a run out. About 10 minutes in their 10 put in a good up and under and I got caught man and ball by him. I was absolutely splattered even though everyone said he very obviously pulled out of the massive hit as he approached. Thank the Lord.

[Tichtheid]

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

When I first moved up to Edinburgh for Uni in the mid 90's I had a game for Edinburgh Accies 3rd XV against Stew Mel 3rd's at full back and Calder was having a run out. About 10 minutes in their 10 put in a good up and under and I got caught man and ball by him. I was absolutely splattered even though everyone said he very obviously pulled out of the massive hit as he approached. Thank the Lord.

A friend of mine knows him really well - farming community.

Even telling an anecdote about Jim Telfer and his method of getting players to hit rucks at the right height involved severe pain - Telfer used to smack players on the head with a boot to get them lower, Calder did the same when telling the story.

[Biffer]

Yes, he is very good. A very humble and modest Scot.

Superb player, hard as teak.

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

Shortly after I first moved to Edinburgh I was heading somewhere to meet a mate for a drink, walked round a corner onto the Royal Mile not looking where I was going and walked square into someone. Looked and realised it was Finlay Calder. Nearly shat my breeks, kind of whispered in a high pitched voice 'sorry Mr Calder sir' and scuttled off.

[Biffer]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

[GrahamWa]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

Did the Saffers not do the same in the last tour or did they claim Covid bubble restrictions?

[Slick]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

Did the Saffers not do the same in the last tour or did they claim Covid bubble restrictions?

I think it was Covid bubble restrictions to be fair.

Schmidt says it's all games and nonsense anyway and that they were just under obligation to do their best

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

I don't disagree if the jamboree continues Argentina should be added into the mix. But if the issue is weak midweek opposition who would Argentina be putting forward? (I suppose one could play Chile and Uruguay and?)

[Hal Jordan]

Add in the USA and you can do a "Dictatorships of the Americas" tour.

[Blackmac]

Yes, he is very good. A very humble and modest Scot.

Superb player, hard as teak.

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

Always wonder how your modern day hard men like Eben would have coped against the likes of Calder, Teague, Dooley etc. He's a big gym monkey who likes to push and shove and make faces but I doubt he has ever thrown a proper punch in anger on a pitch or faced up to one of these guys who were hard men in life not just on a pitch.

[Biffer]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

I don't disagree if the jamboree continues Argentina should be added into the mix. But if the issue is weak midweek opposition who would Argentina be putting forward? (I suppose one could play Chile and Uruguay and?)

Chile, Uruguay, Argentina A, Americas Select, Presidents Invitational, Club XV. The thing is over there, not a single played would turn it down - they're struggling to get people to play for the Aus-NZ combined team. You'd get the best of the Chile, Uruguay and USA turning out for the Americas side even if they had played them already for their national side. Argentina A would be full blood the week before as well, players looking to force their way into the test 23.

[Biffer]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

Did the Saffers not do the same in the last tour or did they claim Covid bubble restrictions?

I think it was Covid bubble restrictions to be fair.

Schmidt says it's all games and nonsense anyway and that they were just under obligation to do their best

So far as I understand it, the Lions started putting the release clause into the contract for the tour a few tours ago due to the fact the SH nations were holding back their best players from provincial games. But the SH countries are all ignoring the provision despite it being contractual. The o yl way to enforce it is to change the schedule.

[TedMaul]

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

Always wonder how your modern day hard men like Eben would have coped against the likes of Calder, Teague, Dooley etc. He's a big gym monkey who likes to push and shove and make faces but I doubt he has ever thrown a proper punch in anger on a pitch or faced up to one of these guys who were hard men in life not just on a pitch.

Me too. World class scruffer and face puller, plus the target of gallons of Saffa bukkake.

[Sandstorm]

If punching was still allowed, I’m sure today’s pro scumbags would be just as effective as the 1970s versions.

[Uncle fester]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

Yeah, the lions will get flogged in the pre test games to come up against fresh and rested players in the tests. Possibly even some strategic injuring of players by lads whose season is over anyway (see Doddie Weir & ROG).

That's a feature, not a bug.

[Slick]

Well his forearm certainly] was ....as Jim Staples found out

He was a great, great player, tough as a gatepost but furiously dirty player - ask Sean Fitzpatrick. Most opposition players were seriously scared of him and I don't blame them. I know a few players from that era and even those in the same Scotland team as him were scared of him!

Always wonder how your modern day hard men like Eben would have coped against the likes of Calder, Teague, Dooley etc. He's a big gym monkey who likes to push and shove and make faces but I doubt he has ever thrown a proper punch in anger on a pitch or faced up to one of these guys who were hard men in life not just on a pitch.

I reckon Eben would be OK

[Slick]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

Yeah, the lions will get flogged in the pre test games to come up against fresh and rested players in the tests. Possibly even some strategic injuring of players by lads whose season is over anyway (see Doddie Weir & ROG).

That's a feature, not a bug.

Schmidt did make a point that the Lions would be protecting their Test players for the majority of the tour which is true

[Gumboot]

Schmidt did make a point that the Lions would be protecting their Test players for the majority of the tour which is true

Exactly.

Make the Lions play their best 23 in every game. Isn't that what the fans would prefer?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

I don't disagree if the jamboree continues Argentina should be added into the mix. But if the issue is weak midweek opposition who would Argentina be putting forward? (I suppose one could play Chile and Uruguay and?)

Chile, Uruguay, Argentina A, Americas Select, Presidents Invitational, Club XV. The thing is over there, not a single played would turn it down - they're struggling to get people to play for the Aus-NZ combined team. You'd get the best of the Chile, Uruguay and USA turning out for the Americas side even if they had played them already for their national side. Argentina A would be full blood the week before as well, players looking to force their way into the test 23.

Likely the best Argentinian players wouldn't be featuring in those games, putt them in the same boat as Australia, so presumably we'd have to take issues with Argentina and add what? France to the schedule?

[Kawazaki]

If punching was still allowed, I’m sure today’s pro scumbags would be just as effective as the 1970s versions.

Yep. Nostalgia is great and I'm glad I played when I did but the players today are physical monsters compared to players from the 80s and 90s. The hits and impacts are huge nowadays and I respect all of them who play the game. In short, Etzebeth would give as good at he got.

* I'd still back Dooley to sit him down with a loosener though.

[Uncle fester]

Aussies breaching their contrqct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 97qz5dqlgo

Four of nine Force players not released, six of eight reds players not released.

The Lions management should start to be a bit more draconian with this. Good reason to take the tour to Argentina instead of Australia next time round I reckon.

I feel sorry for the guys that might not t get to play against the Lions at all as a result of this.

Yeah, the lions will get flogged in the pre test games to come up against fresh and rested players in the tests. Possibly even some strategic injuring of players by lads whose season is over anyway (see Doddie Weir & ROG).

That's a feature, not a bug.

Schmidt did make a point that the Lions would be protecting their Test players for the majority of the tour which is true

I doubt Farrell will be going full Clive Woodward.

Not going to id the test starters unless he plays them.

[Slick]

Yeah, the lions will get flogged in the pre test games to come up against fresh and rested players in the tests. Possibly even some strategic injuring of players by lads whose season is over anyway (see Doddie Weir & ROG).

That's a feature, not a bug.

Schmidt did make a point that the Lions would be protecting their Test players for the majority of the tour which is true

I doubt Farrell will be going full Clive Woodward.

Not going to id the test starters unless he plays them.

Agree to a point, but some of the definite starters will not be playing in the 2 games before the 1st test I wouldn’t think

[Biffer]

Schmidt did make a point that the Lions would be protecting their Test players for the majority of the tour which is true

I doubt Farrell will be going full Clive Woodward.

Not going to id the test starters unless he plays them.

Agree to a point, but some of the definite starters will not be playing in the 2 games before the 1st test I wouldn’t think

So they’re not going to play for three weeks? The other guys are going to play three games in ten days?

[Uncle fester]

I doubt Farrell will be going full Clive Woodward.

Not going to id the test starters unless he plays them.

Agree to a point, but some of the definite starters will not be playing in the 2 games before the 1st test I wouldn’t think

So they’re not going to play for three weeks? The other guys are going to play three games in ten days?

Thank you for making my point quite effectively.

[TedMaul]

Geez if you told me the next game would only have 2 English starters I’d still be here guessing the two chosen.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

do we need that many? surely other nations can step in to lessen the hit we take from the jamboree to prop up Australian rugby

[Slick]

I doubt Farrell will be going full Clive Woodward.

Not going to id the test starters unless he plays them.

Agree to a point, but some of the definite starters will not be playing in the 2 games before the 1st test I wouldn’t think

So they’re not going to play for three weeks? The other guys are going to play three games in ten days?

Where did you get 3 weeks from?

[Tichtheid]

British and Irish Lions: 15 Elliot Daly, 14 Mack Hansen, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Sione Tuipulotu, 11 James Lowe, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Tomos Williams, 8 Henry Pollock, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 Tadhg Beirne, 5 Joe McCarthy, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Dan Sheehan (c), 1 Pierre Schoeman
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Andrew Porter, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ollie Chessum, 20 Jack Conan, 21 Alex Mitchell, 22 Huw Jones, 23 Marcus Smith

[dpedin]

British and Irish Lions: 15 Elliot Daly, 14 Mack Hansen, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Sione Tuipulotu, 11 James Lowe, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Tomos Williams, 8 Henry Pollock, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 Tadhg Beirne, 5 Joe McCarthy, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Dan Sheehan (c), 1 Pierre Schoeman
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Andrew Porter, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ollie Chessum, 20 Jack Conan, 21 Alex Mitchell, 22 Huw Jones, 23 Marcus Smith

Good to see the Russell - Tuipulotu axis on show! Williams should provide speedy ball from 9. Ringrose and wingers should benefit from having them there and I hope they have had a bit of time to practice some attacking moves. Not sure Daly fits into the game plan so well, I suspect he is there because probable Test 15s aren't quite ready yet. It is why he is on Tour solid, reliable and can cover a lot of positions in backs but I would worry he get exposed defensively to speedier opponents.

[Sandstorm]

Western Force team list

Starting XV; Tom Robertson, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, Ollie Hoskins, Sam Carter, Darcy Swain, Will Harris, Nick Champion de Crespigny, Vaiolini Ekuasi; Nic White (c), Alex Harford, Dylan Pietsch, Hamish Stewart, Matt Proctor, Mac Grealy, Ben Donaldson

Reserves; Nic Dolly, Marley Pearce, Tiaan Tauakipulu, Lopeti Faifua, Reed Prinsep, Henry Robertson, Max Burey, Bayley Kuenzle

[Sandstorm]

Not sure Daly fits into the game plan so well, I suspect he is there because probable Test 15s aren't quite ready yet. It is why he is on Tour solid, reliable and can cover a lot of positions in backs but I would worry he get exposed defensively to speedier opponents.

Dylan Pietsch will give him nightmares down the right wing!

[zt1903]

British and Irish Lions: 15 Elliot Daly, 14 Mack Hansen, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Sione Tuipulotu, 11 James Lowe, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Tomos Williams, 8 Henry Pollock, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 Tadhg Beirne, 5 Joe McCarthy, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Dan Sheehan (c), 1 Pierre Schoeman
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Andrew Porter, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ollie Chessum, 20 Jack Conan, 21 Alex Mitchell, 22 Huw Jones, 23 Marcus Smith

Good to see the Russell - Tuipulotu axis on show! Williams should provide speedy ball from 9. Ringrose and wingers should benefit from having them there and I hope they have had a bit of time to practice some attacking moves. Not sure Daly fits into the game plan so well, I suspect he is there because probable Test 15s aren't quite ready yet. It is why he is on Tour solid, reliable and can cover a lot of positions in backs but I would worry he get exposed defensively to speedier opponents.

Will be interesting to see how Williams/Russell works, presumably will also get a chance to see Mitchell/Russell in the second half too.

[Gumboot]

Western Force team list

Starting XV; Tom Robertson, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, Ollie Hoskins, Sam Carter, Darcy Swain, Will Harris, Nick Champion de Crespigny, Vaiolini Ekuasi; Nic White (c), Alex Harford, Dylan Pietsch, Hamish Stewart, Matt Proctor, Mac Grealy, Ben Donaldson

Reserves; Nic Dolly, Marley Pearce, Tiaan Tauakipulu, Lopeti Faifua, Reed Prinsep, Henry Robertson, Max Burey, Bayley Kuenzle

Had my eye on this young fella for a while. Hope he plays well.

Edit: Just read that he's fully committed to staying in Australia. Dead to me.

[Slick]

Western Force team list

Starting XV; Tom Robertson, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, Ollie Hoskins, Sam Carter, Darcy Swain, Will Harris, Nick Champion de Crespigny, Vaiolini Ekuasi; Nic White (c), Alex Harford, Dylan Pietsch, Hamish Stewart, Matt Proctor, Mac Grealy, Ben Donaldson

Reserves; Nic Dolly, Marley Pearce, Tiaan Tauakipulu, Lopeti Faifua, Reed Prinsep, Henry Robertson, Max Burey, Bayley Kuenzle

Had my eye on this young fella for a while. Hope he plays well.

Edit: Just read that he's fully committed to staying in Australia. Dead to me.

[Gumboot]

Kick off times in NZ:

9pm Saturday - Japan XV vs Maori ABs in Tokyo

2am Sunday - Force vs Lions in Perth

2:10am Sunday - SA vs BaaBaas in Cape Town

Talk about the viewing schedule from hell!

[Guy Smiley]

Those times don’t look right… I’m pretty sure there’s only 40 minutes between kick off times for the Japan game and the Perth game.