President Trump and US politics catchall

[sturginho]

the unfortunate thing is that politics everywhere now is so bound by the need to be seen as strong and able to get it right first time, that the no one seems willing or able to change their approach to imitate the more successful policies from earlier in the pandemic.

Yup.

Which is why the UK govt has had more u-turns than google maps this year?

[Biffer]

the unfortunate thing is that politics everywhere now is so bound by the need to be seen as strong and able to get it right first time, that the no one seems willing or able to change their approach to imitate the more successful policies from earlier in the pandemic.

Yup.

Which is why the UK govt has had more u-turns than google maps this year?

That's just incompetence. And when they've done it they've tried to pretend it was the plan all along.

[Ovals]

Yup.

I dunno. UK has "gone hard, gone early" now to try to get things back to a better situation before Xmas. But that seems to be a terrible idea in 1/3 of the population's minds too.
Damned if you do, Boris/Nicola.....

Nah, they didn't really. If we'd done that we would have gone into pretty sever restrictions in early September.

The UK have, in each incidence, been several weeks late in taking action - the latest 'lockdown' being a classic example - their own advisers were asking for a circuit breaker 2-3 weeks before they took the required action.

[Saint]

Biden announced the winner of Georgia after the recount is completed - the final margin being 12,284

The Trump campaign responded that the recount went exactlky the way as they expected given that Georgia continued to count illegal votes (i.e. any vote for Biden)

[GogLais]

Biden announced the winner of Georgia after the recount is completed - the final margin being 12,284

The Trump campaign responded that the recount went exactlky the way as they expected given that Georgia continued to count illegal votes (i.e. any vote for Biden)

One might think that the US voting in a Democrat for President was some bizarre event that had never happened before. I don’t know what’s worse really, whether Trump genuinely believes this stuff or whether he’s trying to sow chaos for the sake of it.

[Biffer]

Biden announced the winner of Georgia after the recount is completed - the final margin being 12,284

The Trump campaign responded that the recount went exactlky the way as they expected given that Georgia continued to count illegal votes (i.e. any vote for Biden)

One might think that the US voting in a Democrat for President was some bizarre event that had never happened before. I don’t know what’s worse really, whether Trump genuinely believes this stuff or whether he’s trying to sow chaos for the sake of it.

I genuinely can't decide which of these is true

1. Trump genuinely believes they won the election and that there was massive fraud by some shady influences. Trump is in a bubble where he doesn't hear things he doesn't want to hear, or if he does he believes absolutely that it's someone out to 'get' him. He has a fundamental belief that he knows better, in every circumstance and that he's just better than everyone else. It's not hard to see that someone with such an engrained opinion of their superiority couldn't accept that they lost and would jump on any reason, however specious, to explain why it appeared that way.
2. Trump is trying to extract leverage of some sort for a future advantage (pardons / no charges?). This would also be in character. He's by nature a dealer, or likes to think he is and again believes he's better at it than anyone else. By getting himself into some kind of position where he can make a deal with Biden, he believes he can still classify himself as a 'winner'.
3. Trump is consciously trying to subvert democracy and pull off a coup.

These are all to an extent mutually exclusive (although you could argue that 3 can kind of be a result of 1). But whichever one Trump is, there are others in the GOP who are in the other categories.

[Rinkals]

The second and third of those imply that he isn't as thick as mince, which rather counts them out.

[Biffer]

The second and third of those imply that he isn't as thick as mince, which rather counts them out.

There is a specific type of 'cleverness' that applies to the second one, but it's in no way admirable. It's that ability to manipulate other people in ways that range from 'really quite unlikeable' to 'fucking piece of shit'. But it is a type of intelligence (or maybe just better described as a talent?) albeit one people won't respect in any way.

The third one fair enough. It requires him to basically have been a patsy all the way through though, which I could be convinced of either way.

[Rinkals]

I remain unconvinced.

[Biffer]

I remain unconvinced.

I'll put you down as a '1' then.

[Ovals]

Biden announced the winner of Georgia after the recount is completed - the final margin being 12,284

The Trump campaign responded that the recount went exactlky the way as they expected given that Georgia continued to count illegal votes (i.e. any vote for Biden)

One might think that the US voting in a Democrat for President was some bizarre event that had never happened before. I don’t know what’s worse really, whether Trump genuinely believes this stuff or whether he’s trying to sow chaos for the sake of it.

I genuinely can't decide which of these is true

1. Trump genuinely believes they won the election and that there was massive fraud by some shady influences. Trump is in a bubble where he doesn't hear things he doesn't want to hear, or if he does he believes absolutely that it's someone out to 'get' him. He has a fundamental belief that he knows better, in every circumstance and that he's just better than everyone else. It's not hard to see that someone with such an engrained opinion of their superiority couldn't accept that they lost and would jump on any reason, however specious, to explain why it appeared that way.
2. Trump is trying to extract leverage of some sort for a future advantage (pardons / no charges?). This would also be in character. He's by nature a dealer, or likes to think he is and again believes he's better at it than anyone else. By getting himself into some kind of position where he can make a deal with Biden, he believes he can still classify himself as a 'winner'.
3. Trump is consciously trying to subvert democracy and pull off a coup.

These are all to an extent mutually exclusive (although you could argue that 3 can kind of be a result of 1). But whichever one Trump is, there are others in the GOP who are in the other categories.

Maybe he knows he lost but doesn't want to admit it so is creating enough doubt, amongst the gullible, that he never has to admit it - or is simply taking revenge on the Democrats by making pissing on their parade and making life as difficult as possible for the next administration.

[Biffer]

One might think that the US voting in a Democrat for President was some bizarre event that had never happened before. I don’t know what’s worse really, whether Trump genuinely believes this stuff or whether he’s trying to sow chaos for the sake of it.

I genuinely can't decide which of these is true

1. Trump genuinely believes they won the election and that there was massive fraud by some shady influences. Trump is in a bubble where he doesn't hear things he doesn't want to hear, or if he does he believes absolutely that it's someone out to 'get' him. He has a fundamental belief that he knows better, in every circumstance and that he's just better than everyone else. It's not hard to see that someone with such an engrained opinion of their superiority couldn't accept that they lost and would jump on any reason, however specious, to explain why it appeared that way.
2. Trump is trying to extract leverage of some sort for a future advantage (pardons / no charges?). This would also be in character. He's by nature a dealer, or likes to think he is and again believes he's better at it than anyone else. By getting himself into some kind of position where he can make a deal with Biden, he believes he can still classify himself as a 'winner'.
3. Trump is consciously trying to subvert democracy and pull off a coup.

These are all to an extent mutually exclusive (although you could argue that 3 can kind of be a result of 1). But whichever one Trump is, there are others in the GOP who are in the other categories.

Maybe he knows he lost but doesn't want to admit it so is creating enough doubt, amongst the gullible, that he never has to admit it - or is simply taking revenge on the Democrats by making pissing on their parade and making life as difficult as possible for the next administration.

I think if he's admitted to himself he's lost it he wants to desperately find a way to claim he's a 'winner' - Trump is massive on winners and losers, it's a major part of his make up - so is looking at 2 to find some way to make himself look like he's 'won' in some faintly credible way.

[fishfoodie]

I genuinely can't decide which of these is true

1. Trump genuinely believes they won the election and that there was massive fraud by some shady influences. Trump is in a bubble where he doesn't hear things he doesn't want to hear, or if he does he believes absolutely that it's someone out to 'get' him. He has a fundamental belief that he knows better, in every circumstance and that he's just better than everyone else. It's not hard to see that someone with such an engrained opinion of their superiority couldn't accept that they lost and would jump on any reason, however specious, to explain why it appeared that way.
2. Trump is trying to extract leverage of some sort for a future advantage (pardons / no charges?). This would also be in character. He's by nature a dealer, or likes to think he is and again believes he's better at it than anyone else. By getting himself into some kind of position where he can make a deal with Biden, he believes he can still classify himself as a 'winner'.
3. Trump is consciously trying to subvert democracy and pull off a coup.

These are all to an extent mutually exclusive (although you could argue that 3 can kind of be a result of 1). But whichever one Trump is, there are others in the GOP who are in the other categories.

Maybe he knows he lost but doesn't want to admit it so is creating enough doubt, amongst the gullible, that he never has to admit it - or is simply taking revenge on the Democrats by making pissing on their parade and making life as difficult as possible for the next administration.

I think if he's admitted to himself he's lost it he wants to desperately find a way to claim he's a 'winner' - Trump is massive on winners and losers, it's a major part of his make up - so is looking at 2 to find some way to make himself look like he's 'won' in some faintly credible way.

That can happen when you have son's; who were continually measured, & found wanting by their Fathers.

Throughout his life he's failed, & then tried to turn it into some kind of success, that only very smart people can understand.

I think he knows he lost, & he's now trying to turn his base into something he can milk down the road, & earn off of; & use to try & avoid prison.

[Rinkals]

Maybe he knows he lost but doesn't want to admit it so is creating enough doubt, amongst the gullible, that he never has to admit it - or is simply taking revenge on the Democrats by making pissing on their parade and making life as difficult as possible for the next administration.

I think if he's admitted to himself he's lost it he wants to desperately find a way to claim he's a 'winner' - Trump is massive on winners and losers, it's a major part of his make up - so is looking at 2 to find some way to make himself look like he's 'won' in some faintly credible way.

That can happen when you have son's; who were continually measured, & found wanting by their Fathers.

Throughout his life he's failed, & then tried to turn it into some kind of success, that only very smart people can understand.

I think he knows he lost, & he's now trying to turn his base into something he can milk down the road, & earn off of; & use to try & avoid prison.

I don't think so.

I think Don Jnr and Eric are telling him what he wants to hear. I think Rudi also thinks that he's won and I think he's listening to them because that's what he wants to believe.

He will never, ever admit that he lost, even after they drag him kicking and screaming down the Whitehouse steps; to his dying day, he will still think he was cheated and that probably motivates him more than the prospect of a prison term, which he knows he will never get because he has enough wealth to avoid it just like he's always avoided it in the past.

[Saint]

I think if he's admitted to himself he's lost it he wants to desperately find a way to claim he's a 'winner' - Trump is massive on winners and losers, it's a major part of his make up - so is looking at 2 to find some way to make himself look like he's 'won' in some faintly credible way.

That can happen when you have son's; who were continually measured, & found wanting by their Fathers.

Throughout his life he's failed, & then tried to turn it into some kind of success, that only very smart people can understand.

I think he knows he lost, & he's now trying to turn his base into something he can milk down the road, & earn off of; & use to try & avoid prison.

I don't think so.

I think Don Jnr and Eric are telling him what he wants to hear. I think Rudi also thinks that he's won and I think he's listening to them because that's what he wants to believe.

He will never, ever admit that he lost, even after they drag him kicking and screaming down the Whitehouse steps; to his dying day, he will still think he was cheated and that probably motivates him more than the prospect of a prison term, which he knows he will never get because he has enough wealth to avoid it just like he's always avoided it in the past.

Judging by the pace he's running through what's still under his control now, someone very senior in the WH knows he's lost - and given that all the senior gusy are now "yes men" then it's Donald that knows that time is up. The desire to withdraw from Iraq while starting a war with Iran is just one symptom of that, the sudden sell off of Alaskan drilling rights another.

This is ALL about protecting his image at this point for his new media channel

[Slick]

Yup, this is all about what happens next, how he can stay relevant and make cash off it. News channel and influence over the GOP

[Gumboot]

Yup, this is all about what happens next, how he can stay relevant and make cash off it. News channel and influence over the GOP

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." - HL Mencken

[Grandpa]

[Saint]

Just another example. The only policy here is scorched earth

[Hal Jordan]

Burn everything down. They're fucking sociopaths.

[Tichtheid]

Kyle Rittenhouse freed from Kenosha jail after attorneys post $2 million bail despite pleas from families of men he shot

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... tR5AeYiT-E

[Trapper]

Don Jr tests positive to the rona. Hahaha

[Carter's Choice]

Trumps post-election behaviour is about power and control. He is exerting control over the American people right until the very end. He is also exerting control over his political opponents by refusing to allow them any chance to celebrate their electoral success. I hope Trump and his enablers all burn in hell.

[Kiwias]

Trumps post-election behaviour is about power and control. He is exerting control over the American people right until the very end. He is also exerting control over his political opponents by refusing to allow them any chance to celebrate their electoral success. I hope Trump and his enablers all burn in hell.

He is also deliberately obstructing the transition process just because he can, without any regard for the nation or its safety.

[Lobby]

Trumps post-election behaviour is about power and control. He is exerting control over the American people right until the very end. He is also exerting control over his political opponents by refusing to allow them any chance to celebrate their electoral success. I hope Trump and his enablers all burn in hell.

He is also deliberately obstructing the transition process just because he can, without any regard for the nation or its safety.

It appears there is nothing that he and his team won't lie about. They are now claiming Obama blocked his transition period in 2016:

His Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany accused the media and Democrats of hypocrisy.

"While in 2016 President Trump became the duly elected president, many sought to undermine him, discredit him, de-legitimise him and deny his victory. There were no calls for unity, there were no calls for healing," she said.

"So while every legal vote is counted let us not forget the inexcusable transition, or lack thereof, that President Trump had to endure in 2016 and for years into his presidency."

[Torquemada 1420]

the unfortunate thing is that politics everywhere now is so bound by the need to be seen as strong and able to get it right first time, that the no one seems willing or able to change their approach to imitate the more successful policies from earlier in the pandemic.

Yup.

Which is why the UK govt has had more u-turns than google maps this year?

The UK has a Govt?

[Uncle fester]

The second and third of those imply that he isn't as thick as mince, which rather counts them out.

There is a specific type of 'cleverness' that applies to the second one, but it's in no way admirable. It's that ability to manipulate other people in ways that range from 'really quite unlikeable' to 'fucking piece of shit'. But it is a type of intelligence (or maybe just better described as a talent?) albeit one people won't respect in any way.

The third one fair enough. It requires him to basically have been a patsy all the way through though, which I could be convinced of either way.

Plenty of opportunists hanging around the trump camp and Republican leadership have been mostly quiet while trump pours acid on the foundations of their democracy.

I suspect that the game here might be to try and cause enough chaos/doubt so that Congress or supreme court have to rule on the winner. They can't get trump to 270 but if they bully enough people, they might be able to stop Biden officially getting to 270.

[Cartman]

Its surprising that Trump is such a bully
He's a pussy, how does he do it?

[fishfoodie]

Its surprising that Trump is such a bully
He's a pussy, how does he do it?

He uses others; mostly lawyers.

He won't do confrontation himself; just look at the way he fires people via twitter.

[Rinkals]

Don Jr tests positive to the rona. Hahaha

Would I be considered inconsiderate if I expressed the hope that it isn't trivial?

[Hal Jordan]

Don Jr tests positive to the rona. Hahaha

Would I be considered inconsiderate if I expressed the hope that it isn't trivial?

Like the rest of Trump's circle that have caught it, the evil gene simply overpowers the virus, barring Herman Cain, who lived up to the "black guy dies first" trope.

[Flockwitt]

The evil gene may overpower the virus but for those without it the muppet-in-chief is telling people not to lockdown and go celebrate Thanksgiving.

[Rinkals]

The evil gene may overpower the virus but for those without it the muppet-in-chief is telling people not to lockdown and go celebrate Thanksgiving.

It's what they want to hear.

It would be a prime example of Darwinism at work, were it not for the probability that the protagonists already have large families.

[Rinkals]

Unhinged.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us-2020-55024445

"Which I won, by the way..."

"I was put here to do a job"

[TB63]

[Hal Jordan]

One or two Republican senators starting to poke their heads above the parapet and tell Trump to get on with the transition. Of course, until the real big arseholes tell him, it's still small beer.

[Lobby]

I see that Trump's team has distanced itself from the ridiculous claims being made by its lawyer Sydney Powell. It appears she was too batshit crazy even for Trump and Giuliani.

The Trump campaign’s legal team has moved to distance itself from the firebrand conservative attorney after a tumultuous few days in which Powell made multiple incorrect statements about the election voting process, unspooled complex conspiracy theories and vowed to “blow up” Georgia with a “biblical” lawsuit.

“Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump legal team. She is also not a lawyer for the president in his personal capacity,” Giuliani and another lawyer for Trump, Jenna Ellis, said in a statement on Sunday.

Powell made headlines with her statements at a Thursday news conference where, joined by Giuliani and Ellis, she incorrectly suggested that a server hosting evidence of voting irregularities was located in Germany, that voting software used by Georgia and other states was created at the direction of late Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez and that votes for Trump had probably been switched in favour of Biden.

Trump himself has heralded Powell’s involvement, tweeting last week that she was part of a team of “wonderful lawyers and representatives” spearheaded by Giuliani.

In other news, one of Trump's associates, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, has called the president's legal team a "national embarrassment".

[Hong Kong]

[fishfoodie]

One or two Republican senators starting to poke their heads above the parapet and tell Trump to get on with the transition. Of course, until the real big arseholes tell him, it's still small beer.

It's getting past a joke now: & I agree with this opinion piece, that, there has to be consequences, & there needs to be a serious effort made to stop this kind of damaging farce ever happening again.

[Hal Jordan]

Lin Wood, one of Trump's attorneys, is telling Republicans not to vote for the Republican candidates in the Georgia run off. The reason? They've failed to help in Trump's fight to overturn the election.

Godwin's Law, but this echoes what happened to industrialists in Germany in the 1930s. They thought they could control that shouty man with the moustache who provided a good front to protect their interests and suppress the Communists, and then realised they could not reign him in. Of course, a fair deal of them were fucking horrible people who didn't mind democracy going up in smoke.