Probably just doesn’t want to join in the pile on. All the negativity gets pretty tiresome tbh.Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 pm Dan 54, do you ever tire of making excuses for Ian Foster and NZR?
Years.
Shanky’s mate wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:27 am Dan54, have you ever considered using a bit of punctuation and the odd paragraph? Just to slow down the breathy rush of your posts... reading them makes me feel like I’m stuck in an office dunny trying to enjoy a healthy morning crap on a timer with a loud alarm.
Always try to use a new paragraph when going on to new subject. otherwise I find commas and fullstops go where they should?McRae and Davis played at 12 and 13 for HB, IIRC, so playing them in those positions in the ABs was not issue. Wylie played at flank for Canterbury quite often when Ian Penrose, the captain, was at 8. Mike Gibson was world-class at each position so it is unfair to claim he was shoe-horned into an unfamilar position to strengthen the team.Dan54 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:47 pm
You obviously don't remember one Stack Stevens from Wellington being picked for whole tour as a 10 when he played 9 for Wellington, I seem to recall one game in France where there were 3 halfbacks on field with Sid Going at 15 , though it was just a mid week game. We also had one BJ Lochore playing a test against Lions at lock, he was never anything but an 8, he had actually retired if memory serves me correctly, and got bought back in to play lock as they wanted his leadership , and someone was conveniently injured. But players like Mike Gibson, probably one of best 13s I seen play was a 10 who went to 13 for Lions and I think actually ended up playing 10,12 and 13 for Ireland, though I am happy to be corrected, but I can't be arsed looking for info. Ian McCrae even in the 60s was a centre who got moved to 12 (2nd 5/8) to fit in with Bill Davis etc. I sure there were quite a few , it wasn't really that unusual. Hell Grizz Wylie and Alan Sutherland were 8s who played on flank when needed and to fit them in teams, Gary sear played lock or 8. I not saying it good or bad, just nothing new.
Who's making excuses for anyone? Merely pointing out all the gnashing of teeth is over stuff that has always happened with shoehorning players in. As pointed out by wild beef sometimes we can look on the positive side anyway. Mate I post the same on Aus site, and get accused of being too positive, I don't give a stuff, I to bloody old to spend my life negative, and as pointed out I have seen all these things go on for years, in rugby from all round the world. I have been accused of being a Rennie apologist in Aus rugby sites too. Mate I look on the bright side, and if Foster gets booted and Razor takes over, I will be no different.Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 pm Dan 54, do you ever tire of making excuses for Ian Foster and NZR?
Mate Gibson was moved to fit in players, but regardless you right he then became world class in other positions. And you also right Wylie played flank as well as 8 for Canterbury and ABs, so others could play 8, remember the stink when Leslie had was named as AB 8 and captain in 74 ahead of him. But regardless it always happened they move players around to either fit them in somewhere, let them learn to play in an easier position (ie no of players who were centres that started on wing , not good enough to play in right position etc), mate it has been happening in rugby for years in all teams around world, let's not pretend it's new.Kiwias wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:04 amMcRae and Davis played at 12 and 13 for HB, IIRC, so playing them in those positions in the ABs was not issue. Wylie played at flank for Canterbury quite often when Ian Penrose, the captain, was at 8. Mike Gibson was world-class at each position so it is unfair to claim he was shoe-horned into an unfamilar position to strengthen the team.Dan54 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:47 pm
You obviously don't remember one Stack Stevens from Wellington being picked for whole tour as a 10 when he played 9 for Wellington, I seem to recall one game in France where there were 3 halfbacks on field with Sid Going at 15 , though it was just a mid week game. We also had one BJ Lochore playing a test against Lions at lock, he was never anything but an 8, he had actually retired if memory serves me correctly, and got bought back in to play lock as they wanted his leadership , and someone was conveniently injured. But players like Mike Gibson, probably one of best 13s I seen play was a 10 who went to 13 for Lions and I think actually ended up playing 10,12 and 13 for Ireland, though I am happy to be corrected, but I can't be arsed looking for info. Ian McCrae even in the 60s was a centre who got moved to 12 (2nd 5/8) to fit in with Bill Davis etc. I sure there were quite a few , it wasn't really that unusual. Hell Grizz Wylie and Alan Sutherland were 8s who played on flank when needed and to fit them in teams, Gary sear played lock or 8. I not saying it good or bad, just nothing new.
Yep Nectar and Stack are same fella, stack was what mate who played with him at Petone called him. And he played 10 for Wellington only for a while. Funnily enough one of players I mentioned Gary Sear was one who laughed about how players used to have to just fit in where needed in his day when I was having a beer with him about 3-4 years back. Perhaps up till the last years players just played in more positions without thinking about it.Gumboot wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:09 amDo you mean Ian "Nectar" Stevens? If so, I vaguely remember him as a very good halfback with a great pass, but wasn't he also a more than useful first five before he made the ABs?Dan54 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:47 pmGumboot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:52 pm
I'm not so sure about that. With the odd exception - Duncan Robertson at fullback in SA - I don't recall shoehorning happening in the 70s to anywhere near the extent it does these days. Can't recall an openside ever being selected at no.8 for example. The players were generally chosen in their best positions iirc.
But it's a while ago, so happy to be corrected.
You obviously don't remember one Stack Stevens from Wellington being picked for whole tour as a 10 when he played 9 for Wellington, I seem to recall one game in France where there were 3 halfbacks on field with Sid Going at 15 , though it was just a mid week game. We also had one BJ Lochore playing a test against Lions at lock, he was never anything but an 8, he had actually retired if memory serves me correctly, and got bought back in to play lock as they wanted his leadership , and someone was conveniently injured. But players like Mike Gibson, probably one of best 13s I seen play was a 10 who went to 13 for Lions and I think actually ended up playing 10,12 and 13 for Ireland, though I am happy to be corrected, but I can't be arsed looking for info. Ian McCrae even in the 60s was a centre who got moved to 12 (2nd 5/8) to fit in with Bill Davis etc. I sure there were quite a few , it wasn't really that unusual. Hell Grizz Wylie and Alan Sutherland were 8s who played on flank when needed and to fit them in teams, Gary sear played lock or 8. I not saying it good or bad, just nothing new.
As for the loosies like Grizz and Sutherland - I don't really remember much about them. Was a bit too young then, and only started getting seriously interested in the All Blacks when I started secondary school in 1974. Pretty sure the test selections weren't that ropey for the rest of that decade...with the odd exception, of course. Certainly nothing like today's continual pick n' mix approach.
Fair enough, although I notice you are quick to be very negative about Richie Mo'unga if he ever plays badly at no.10. So you're relentlessly positive when it suits your agenda, but intensely negative when that suits as well.Dan54 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:07 amWho's making excuses for anyone? Merely pointing out all the gnashing of teeth is over stuff that has always happened with shoehorning players in. As pointed out by wild beef sometimes we can look on the positive side anyway. Mate I post the same on Aus site, and get accused of being too positive, I don't give a stuff, I to bloody old to spend my life negative, and as pointed out I have seen all these things go on for years, in rugby from all round the world. I have been accused of being a Rennie apologist in Aus rugby sites too. Mate I look on the bright side, and if Foster gets booted and Razor takes over, I will be no different.Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 pm Dan 54, do you ever tire of making excuses for Ian Foster and NZR?
It’s the sort of thinking O Franks brought to the table, he wasn’t flash but he never got dominated either.Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:28 am Either a great insight into the all blacks performance later or something to be used to beat them with. Joe moody asked about matching the pumas physicality
'We don’t really want to match anyone as far as physicality goes … we want to dominate that area,” said the 30-year-old 120kg strongman. “Last test they probably did beat us in that area. It’s definitely something we want to address this week. There have been words about it'
I do like that a prop is really emphasizing how important it is by the fact there have been 'words' - like they don't have much use for words usually but this is big
Mate I have never been negative of Richie Mounga (and will be very happy for you to show me any post where I have), I will say if he didn't play as well as can, I have said always I a fan. I am happy to say if anyone doesn't play up to scratch, said the same about Codie Taylor , hell I know the boy's family and reckon he was close to best in world last year, but can say if he not on top of game, that is completely different to saying someone is a useless player etc. I have been crirtical of Akira Ioane many times, but am happy for him to prove me wrong.Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:13 amFair enough, although I notice you are quick to be very negative about Richie Mo'unga if he ever plays badly at no.10. So you're relentlessly positive when it suits your agenda, but intensely negative when that suits as well.Dan54 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:07 amWho's making excuses for anyone? Merely pointing out all the gnashing of teeth is over stuff that has always happened with shoehorning players in. As pointed out by wild beef sometimes we can look on the positive side anyway. Mate I post the same on Aus site, and get accused of being too positive, I don't give a stuff, I to bloody old to spend my life negative, and as pointed out I have seen all these things go on for years, in rugby from all round the world. I have been accused of being a Rennie apologist in Aus rugby sites too. Mate I look on the bright side, and if Foster gets booted and Razor takes over, I will be no different.Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 pm Dan 54, do you ever tire of making excuses for Ian Foster and NZR?
I am not pretending it is new; I actually stated earlier in the thread that it has been happening for ages. I did however want to correct some of your claimed shoehorning where that claim is not valid.Dan54 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:16 amMate Gibson was moved to fit in players, but regardless you right he then became world class in other positions. And you also right Wylie played flank as well as 8 for Canterbury and ABs, so others could play 8, remember the stink when Leslie had was named as AB 8 and captain in 74 ahead of him. But regardless it always happened they move players around to either fit them in somewhere, let them learn to play in an easier position (ie no of players who were centres that started on wing , not good enough to play in right position etc), mate it has been happening in rugby for years in all teams around world, let's not pretend it's new.Kiwias wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:04 amMcRae and Davis played at 12 and 13 for HB, IIRC, so playing them in those positions in the ABs was not issue. Wylie played at flank for Canterbury quite often when Ian Penrose, the captain, was at 8. Mike Gibson was world-class at each position so it is unfair to claim he was shoe-horned into an unfamilar position to strengthen the team.Dan54 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:47 pm
You obviously don't remember one Stack Stevens from Wellington being picked for whole tour as a 10 when he played 9 for Wellington, I seem to recall one game in France where there were 3 halfbacks on field with Sid Going at 15 , though it was just a mid week game. We also had one BJ Lochore playing a test against Lions at lock, he was never anything but an 8, he had actually retired if memory serves me correctly, and got bought back in to play lock as they wanted his leadership , and someone was conveniently injured. But players like Mike Gibson, probably one of best 13s I seen play was a 10 who went to 13 for Lions and I think actually ended up playing 10,12 and 13 for Ireland, though I am happy to be corrected, but I can't be arsed looking for info. Ian McCrae even in the 60s was a centre who got moved to 12 (2nd 5/8) to fit in with Bill Davis etc. I sure there were quite a few , it wasn't really that unusual. Hell Grizz Wylie and Alan Sutherland were 8s who played on flank when needed and to fit them in teams, Gary sear played lock or 8. I not saying it good or bad, just nothing new.
All good anyway, not sure how we even got onto it anyway.Kiwias wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:27 amI am not pretending it is new; I actually stated earlier in the thread that it has been happening for ages. I did however want to correct some of your claimed shoehorning where that claim is not valid.Dan54 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:16 amMate Gibson was moved to fit in players, but regardless you right he then became world class in other positions. And you also right Wylie played flank as well as 8 for Canterbury and ABs, so others could play 8, remember the stink when Leslie had was named as AB 8 and captain in 74 ahead of him. But regardless it always happened they move players around to either fit them in somewhere, let them learn to play in an easier position (ie no of players who were centres that started on wing , not good enough to play in right position etc), mate it has been happening in rugby for years in all teams around world, let's not pretend it's new.Kiwias wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:04 am
McRae and Davis played at 12 and 13 for HB, IIRC, so playing them in those positions in the ABs was not issue. Wylie played at flank for Canterbury quite often when Ian Penrose, the captain, was at 8. Mike Gibson was world-class at each position so it is unfair to claim he was shoe-horned into an unfamilar position to strengthen the team.
Seems a stretch to call the most successful side in "club" rugby under achievers? 10 Soup titles? And can think of many times they didn't make the semis in that period.Playing in the hardest conference by miles.JM2K6 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:53 pmThat's pretty good by the BBC. Crusaders under Robertson: 1st 1st 1stTorquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:36 pm BBC reporting at its finest:
Crusaders coach Scott Robertson is a man who makes new traditions instead. The 46-year-old celebrates titles with on-pitch breakdancing.
And he has got plenty of practice. His whirling limbs have now circled four straight Super Rugby titles, having turned the Canterbury side from under-achievers to serial winners.
Crusaders in the previous 5 years: 7th, 7th, 2nd, 4th, 4th
They hadn't won SR since the Super 14 days!
That a very unfair, churlish comment, even.stemoc wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:21 amtransplanted straight from his anus :P
Longshanks wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:13 am First time I've been excited about watching a NZ v Argentina match. The world should return to normal today, but it could mean the end of days of it doesn't.
