President Trump and US politics catchall

[Raggs]

Don't know if this has been posted, but haven't seen it:



Well worth watching. Maybe not to the end, but the start is definitely good.

[Uncle fester]

Came here to post that.

[Sandstorm]

Conan

[dkm57]

I'm not a Septic but that was pretty on point

[Fangle]

I honestly didn’t think that could and would happen. I was so wrong, and so terribly disappointed and completely pissed off.

[Guy Smiley]

I honestly didn’t think that could and would happen. I was so wrong, and so terribly disappointed and completely pissed off.

I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.

I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicsm rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.

[C69]

I'm not a Septic but that was pretty on point

Pretty decent appraisal from Arnie tbh

[Rinkals]

I honestly didn’t think that could and would happen. I was so wrong, and so terribly disappointed and completely pissed off.

Just interested to know how most Americans feel about this.

Should Trump be held to account?

Or should the fact that there are only a few days left mean that, in the interests of unity, no action should be taken.

Do you believe that Trump called for the assault on the Capitol?

Do you think that the election was stolen and that the invasion of the Capitol was justified as a "1st Amendment Protest" (as the Pentagon are apparently calling it)?

Just over 74 million Americans voted for Trump. If the vote were rerun, would that number still hold true? or would a significant number be likely to change their vote?

My own view is that Trump deliberately cocked a loaded gun and sent it up the Hill. He replaced key Pentagon personnel a few weeks before and declined to call in the National guard who were standing by but not authorised intervene. Trump's message for the rioters to "go home" was obviously made under duress and included praise for those taking part.

[fishfoodie]

I honestly didn’t think that could and would happen. I was so wrong, and so terribly disappointed and completely pissed off.

I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.

I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicsm rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.

And I'd say that is frequently the problem at the highest level of US Politics too !

Sure; if you're a County, or State level Politician; if you do something illegal, there's a good chance you'll pay a price; but look at what Nixon got away with; look at what Agnew got away with !

The ability to pardon is the most dangerous power to give any single person; & time & time again, US Politicians have skated, because of that power. This time MUST BE DIFFERENT !

Normally it's a bad idea to make decisions when your angry; but in the case of this coup attempt, they should have finished the business of ratifying the votes, & then had a couple of hours recess; & then immediately started the process of impeachment. If the prick wanted to defend himself; let him come to the House, while the broken glass & blood was still on the floors; & the GOP Senators memory of the fear they had huddled under their desks was still fresh.

They could have done the same for scum like Cruz, & expelled those who sought to undermine the election.

All they needed to enter in evidence was the show the video of the speechs made down the street a few hours earlier.

[sockwithaticket]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

[TB63]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

[dpedin]

Trump has to be impeached, his close team of enablers need to be prosecuted and the mob who sacked the Capitol need to be incarcerated for a long time. This was a deliberate attempt to overthrow the gov and to stop a legitimate and legal election result being implemented. If they dont do this then it opens the door to future attempts by the likes of Cruz et al. If the argument is dont do it because it will enrage Trump supporters then deal with it, otherwise this is exactly what Trump and his cohort of madmen have won! Now is the time for the US to grow a pair!

[Kiwias]

Came here to post that.

I had just finished watching it and was about to post it here.

[Kiwias]

Trump has to be impeached, his close team of enablers need to be prosecuted and the mob who sacked the Capitol need to be incarcerated for a long time. This was a deliberate attempt to overthrow the gov and to stop a legitimate and legal election result being implemented. If they dont do this then it opens the door to future attempts by the likes of Cruz et al. If the argument is dont do it because it will enrage Trump supporters then deal with it, otherwise this is exactly what Trump and his cohort of madmen have won! Now is the time for the US to grow a pair!

They might even get so enraged that they storm the Capitol and try to overthrow a fair and free election to keep their boy in power.

Hang on, they already did that.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached

[fishfoodie]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached

Why ?

He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.

He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached

Why ?

He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.

He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.

I'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.

[fishfoodie]

I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached

Why ?

He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.

He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.

I'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.

If they want to be treated equally; they should have behaved equally !

Fuck him & his bastard offspring !

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Why ?

He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.

He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.

I'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.

If they want to be treated equally; they should have behaved equally !

Fuck him & his bastard offspring !

What I would be content to limit is the degree to which the protection detail would cover multiple sites and people in transit. And as regards Trump and some of his children there are some simplifications to be had if say they just stick 'em in jail. But for all I'm not impressed by them he did win an election, and not being willing and able to protect them seems a bit too much. I've no issues with removing the pension, travel budget and barring him from running for high office again.

[Guy Smiley]

I'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.

If they want to be treated equally; they should have behaved equally !

Fuck him & his bastard offspring !

What I would be content to limit is the degree to which the protection detail would cover multiple sites and people in transit. And as regards Trump and some of his children there are some simplifications to be had if say they just stick 'em in jail. But for all I'm not impressed by them he did win an election, and not being willing and able to protect them seems a bit too much. I've no issues with removing the pension, travel budget and barring him from running for high office again.

Those are perks resulting from the privilege of holding the position. Grounds for impeachment suggest a betrayal of that privilege. Removal of the perks is fair and reasonable.

You could equate it to draining the swamp.

[Rinkals]

https://www.businessinsider.com/pentago ... 021-1?IR=T

Pentagon officials sent memos on January 4 and 5 barring DC guardsmen from receiving ammo and riot gear, engaging with protesters (except for self-defense), sharing equipment with local police, and using surveillance or air assets without explicit approval from President Donald Trump's acting Defense Secretary, Christopher Miller, according to The Post.

The additional bureaucratic hurdle delayed the DC National Guard's response after US Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund asked on Wednesday for 200 guardsmen to provide backup — with guardsmen not arriving until 2 1/2 hours later — according to The Post.

[Sandstorm]

https://www.businessinsider.com/pentago ... 021-1?IR=T

Pentagon officials sent memos on January 4 and 5 barring DC guardsmen from receiving ammo and riot gear, engaging with protesters (except for self-defense), sharing equipment with local police, and using surveillance or air assets without explicit approval from President Donald Trump's acting Defense Secretary, Christopher Miller, according to The Post.

The additional bureaucratic hurdle delayed the DC National Guard's response after US Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund asked on Wednesday for 200 guardsmen to provide backup — with guardsmen not arriving until 2 1/2 hours later — according to The Post.

MAGA Lives Matter More

[Blake]

I honestly didn’t think that could and would happen. I was so wrong, and so terribly disappointed and completely pissed off.

I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.

I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicism rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.

It's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.

There have been many actors that have chipping away at the foundations of their democracy and institutions for decades with impunity without being held to account by their peers and the public. The challenge is going to be to do so now, when it is almost to late, as they already have their army of followers and any calls for accountability will just feed into their persecution complex more.

[Blake]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.

[sockwithaticket]

I honestly didn’t think that could and would happen. I was so wrong, and so terribly disappointed and completely pissed off.

I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.

I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicism rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.

It's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.

There have been many actors that have chipping away at the foundations of their democracy and institutions for decades with impunity without being held to account by their peers and the public. The challenge is going to be to do so now, when it is almost to late, as they already have their army of followers and any calls for accountability will just feed into their persecution complex more.

Can only speak from a UK perspective here, but I am slipping into that. My vote has never counted. Since I've been able to legally vote there have been several general elections and the de facto 2 party system imposed by FPTP plus the disturbing number of safe seats (rotten boroughs...) means my vote has never been represented in the House of Commons. The party I chose to vote for at the last election gained more than 11% of the vote, but received from that just 1.7% of parliamentary seats. As soon as a party has a majority in parliament they can do whatever they want until the next election in 5 years time. We see visible examples of politicians/the establishment getting away with shit we wouldn't and seemingly naked crony capitalism all the time (never more so than during this pandemic with Cummings' excursion and the PPE contracts for Tory mates) with no recourse to do anything about it. Writing to your MP and protesting peacefully doesn't achieve anything, the electoral system is seemingly designed to prevent anyone from outside the establishment gaining any traction. So what do we do?

However much I might disagree with the MAGA lot on what I would sneeringly refer to as their politics (and interpretation of reality), I understand a sense of futility and that the political sphere is beyond change unless you break out the guillotines.

[Fangle]

Pro Trumpers claim that he is the only president for a long time who has not put America into any conflict. I have no idea if that is true.

[Saint]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.

Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.

I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts

[Saint]

Pro Trumpers claim that he is the only president for a long time who has not put America into any conflict. I have no idea if that is true.

They claim since Ike. I say, Nixon, Ford and Carter. And lets be honest, the only reason it didn't go further with Iran is that cooler heads prevailed in Tehran. Trump was ready to go full Dr Strangelove there

[Fangle]

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.

Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.

I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts

Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.

[Fangle]

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.

Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.

I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts

Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.

[sockwithaticket]

Pro Trumpers claim that he is the only president for a long time who has not put America into any conflict. I have no idea if that is true.

No new conflicts that I can recall, although that's partly achieved by throwing allies like the Kurds completely under the bus.

I did read that he's outdone Obama on drone strikes by some margin, though.

[Big D]

No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)

No lifetime Secret Service protection.

No running for President.

No $1 million travel budget.

I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached

Why ?

He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.

He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.

Imagine what would happen if someone assassinated him. The long term damage that would do, it would make last week look like a Sunday picnic.

Yes he could probably afford his own protection but the cost of SS protection would pale into comparison to the costs of someone taking him out.

[GogLais]

Pro Trumpers claim that he is the only president for a long time who has not put America into any conflict. I have no idea if that is true.

Some might say there’s been a certain amount of internal conflict.

[GogLais]

Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.

Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.

I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts

Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.

I’ve read a book called something like The Ex-Presidents Club, which was an interesting read.

[Fangle]

Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.

I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts

Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.

I’ve read a book called something like The Ex-Presidents Club, which was an interesting read.

I also read it. Written by Nancy Gibbs. It was written before the Obama presidency. Apparently he wasn’t at all interested in what the exes said.

[obelixtim]

Kim knocked off number 1 spot.

[Sinkers]

Pro Trumpers claim that he is the only president for a long time who has not put America into any conflict. I have no idea if that is true.

No new conflicts that I can recall, although that's partly achieved by throwing allies like the Kurds completely under the bus.

I did read that he's outdone Obama on drone strikes by some margin, though.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... bombs-2019

https://time.com/5879354/civilian-death ... /?amp=true

Dug those up because I remembered a bbc article along the same lines.

[Biffer]

Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.

Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.

I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts

Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.

I think the most successful former president is Jimmy Carter. What he's achieved through his foundation since losing in 79 is amazing.

[Blake]

Pro Trumpers claim that he is the only president for a long time who has not put America into any conflict. I have no idea if that is true.

No new military conflicts sure; but the USA is in a full on cyber war with multiple foreign actors because they all realised you can't defeat the USA military, but you can try to destroy it from within.
It's a much more effective play. The USA is at its weakest in living memory - isolated and alienated from Western Allies, institutions and infrastructure crumbling, economy stalled, and political freefall...all without firing a single shot.

Russia and China were playing a long game, and they found ways to disrupt the status quo.

[Blake]

Parler's week is just getting worse and worse. After getting kicked off the Google Play Store and Apple App Store for failure to moderate the dangerous and threatening content of the Twitter exiles, and then getting booted off of their AWS servers...hackers have also uncovered a massive security flaw in the site's design exposing the personal details of a number of posters:



Don't think the FBI has ever had such a treasure trove of data...uploaded State IDs of posters to become a "verified citizen", EXIF data in photos and videos...and also access to "Deleted Posts" that were deleted after 6 Jan since they were just hidden in the backend and not deleted from the database. I don't know the Parler platform and if it had a Direct Message feature, but if it did I doubt it was encrypted so there is likely access to that as well.

It's a pity only the foot-soldiers are going to get the book thrown at them. They were the pawns and deserve to be brought to justice, but the real instigators...the politicians and their billionaire donors will probably get off as always.

There is a certain level of Schadenfreude knowing that it will likely be Merick Garland that will get to pursue all of these charges. I really hope he gets some high profile players during the course of these investigations.
The best cure for this infected wound is sunlight.