President Trump and US politics catchall

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The best cure for this infected wound is sunlight.

I would like you to speak to the department of justice to see if there's any way that you can apply light and heat to cure, you know, if you could. And maybe you can, maybe you can't.

[Uncle fester]

I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.

I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicism rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.

It's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.

There have been many actors that have chipping away at the foundations of their democracy and institutions for decades with impunity without being held to account by their peers and the public. The challenge is going to be to do so now, when it is almost to late, as they already have their army of followers and any calls for accountability will just feed into their persecution complex more.

Can only speak from a UK perspective here, but I am slipping into that. My vote has never counted. Since I've been able to legally vote there have been several general elections and the de facto 2 party system imposed by FPTP plus the disturbing number of safe seats (rotten boroughs...) means my vote has never been represented in the House of Commons. The party I chose to vote for at the last election gained more than 11% of the vote, but received from that just 1.7% of parliamentary seats. As soon as a party has a majority in parliament they can do whatever they want until the next election in 5 years time. We see visible examples of politicians/the establishment getting away with shit we wouldn't and seemingly naked crony capitalism all the time (never more so than during this pandemic with Cummings' excursion and the PPE contracts for Tory mates) with no recourse to do anything about it. Writing to your MP and protesting peacefully doesn't achieve anything, the electoral system is seemingly designed to prevent anyone from outside the establishment gaining any traction. So what do we do?

However much I might disagree with the MAGA lot on what I would sneeringly refer to as their politics (and interpretation of reality), I understand a sense of futility and that the political sphere is beyond change unless you break out the guillotines.

Didn't you guys have a referendum on getting rid of FPTP recently enough?

[Uncle fester]

Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.

He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.

Every time he plays golf, he's going to be billing the secret service for food & board just as he has during his presidency.

[sockwithaticket]

It's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.

There have been many actors that have chipping away at the foundations of their democracy and institutions for decades with impunity without being held to account by their peers and the public. The challenge is going to be to do so now, when it is almost to late, as they already have their army of followers and any calls for accountability will just feed into their persecution complex more.

Can only speak from a UK perspective here, but I am slipping into that. My vote has never counted. Since I've been able to legally vote there have been several general elections and the de facto 2 party system imposed by FPTP plus the disturbing number of safe seats (rotten boroughs...) means my vote has never been represented in the House of Commons. The party I chose to vote for at the last election gained more than 11% of the vote, but received from that just 1.7% of parliamentary seats. As soon as a party has a majority in parliament they can do whatever they want until the next election in 5 years time. We see visible examples of politicians/the establishment getting away with shit we wouldn't and seemingly naked crony capitalism all the time (never more so than during this pandemic with Cummings' excursion and the PPE contracts for Tory mates) with no recourse to do anything about it. Writing to your MP and protesting peacefully doesn't achieve anything, the electoral system is seemingly designed to prevent anyone from outside the establishment gaining any traction. So what do we do?

However much I might disagree with the MAGA lot on what I would sneeringly refer to as their politics (and interpretation of reality), I understand a sense of futility and that the political sphere is beyond change unless you break out the guillotines.

Didn't you guys have a referendum on getting rid of FPTP recently enough?

2011 AV referendum, yes. Fraught with issue, though, as in a de facto two party system neither the main politicians nor their supporters are likely to advocate for something that reduces their parliamentary representation in favour of something more equitable. Labour had only just been turfed out after 13 years of power and the Tories had just won, so as far as they were concerned FPTP was working very nicely thank you very much.

Short sighted of them and completely unprincipled. I genuinely believe that if UKIPs vote share had actually manifested in proportionate parliamentary representation early doors, then they wouldn't have become such a cancerous influence on the Tory party and we'd have avoided the Brexit referendum altogether. Greens, Lib Dems and UKIP have all been underserved by FPTP and the longer it goes on unchecked the more the 2 party system reinforces itself.

[Saint]

Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.

I’ve read a book called something like The Ex-Presidents Club, which was an interesting read.

I also read it. Written by Nancy Gibbs. It was written before the Obama presidency. Apparently he wasn’t at all interested in what the exes said.

Obama? He definitely employed Bush and Clinton to work on various projects for him, in some cases very publicly

The one who's specifically said he won't consult any former presidents is Donald - he said he couldn't imagine that he had anything to learn from any if them

[GogLais]

I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.

I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicism rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.

It's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.

There have been many actors that have chipping away at the foundations of their democracy and institutions for decades with impunity without being held to account by their peers and the public. The challenge is going to be to do so now, when it is almost to late, as they already have their army of followers and any calls for accountability will just feed into their persecution complex more.

Can only speak from a UK perspective here, but I am slipping into that. My vote has never counted. Since I've been able to legally vote there have been several general elections and the de facto 2 party system imposed by FPTP plus the disturbing number of safe seats (rotten boroughs...) means my vote has never been represented in the House of Commons. The party I chose to vote for at the last election gained more than 11% of the vote, but received from that just 1.7% of parliamentary seats. As soon as a party has a majority in parliament they can do whatever they want until the next election in 5 years time. We see visible examples of politicians/the establishment getting away with shit we wouldn't and seemingly naked crony capitalism all the time (never more so than during this pandemic with Cummings' excursion and the PPE contracts for Tory mates) with no recourse to do anything about it. Writing to your MP and protesting peacefully doesn't achieve anything, the electoral system is seemingly designed to prevent anyone from outside the establishment gaining any traction. So what do we do?

However much I might disagree with the MAGA lot on what I would sneeringly refer to as their politics (and interpretation of reality), I understand a sense of futility and that the political sphere is beyond change unless you break out the guillotines.

Damn right, we voted for the same party then. Democracy should be more than putting a cross in a box to no effect every five years although I'm not clever enough to think through an alternative.

[Blake]

Can only speak from a UK perspective here, but I am slipping into that. My vote has never counted. Since I've been able to legally vote there have been several general elections and the de facto 2 party system imposed by FPTP plus the disturbing number of safe seats (rotten boroughs...) means my vote has never been represented in the House of Commons. The party I chose to vote for at the last election gained more than 11% of the vote, but received from that just 1.7% of parliamentary seats. As soon as a party has a majority in parliament they can do whatever they want until the next election in 5 years time. We see visible examples of politicians/the establishment getting away with shit we wouldn't and seemingly naked crony capitalism all the time (never more so than during this pandemic with Cummings' excursion and the PPE contracts for Tory mates) with no recourse to do anything about it. Writing to your MP and protesting peacefully doesn't achieve anything, the electoral system is seemingly designed to prevent anyone from outside the establishment gaining any traction. So what do we do?

However much I might disagree with the MAGA lot on what I would sneeringly refer to as their politics (and interpretation of reality), I understand a sense of futility and that the political sphere is beyond change unless you break out the guillotines.

Dude, I live in a "democracy" that is still to be tested when it comes to the peaceful transfer of power. The ANC has been in power for 26 years now and still has 60%+ of the vote and the closest opposition is at sub 25% of the vote, so I understand futility.

[fishfoodie]

Fox are now describing the Democrats looking to impeach the Orange turd as a, 'vendetta'; & appealing to them to be 'gracious', in victory.

It's like they missed the entirety of the last 4 years; tearing down Obamacare, destroying institutions; hiring & firing of people, gutting the EPA, the FBI, the CIA; putting children in cages; their hypocrisy of them blocking Garland, & then forcing thru a pick during the election campaign.

Suddenly enforcing the rule of law & holding Politicians to the oaths of office the swore is a vendetta.

The GOP spend two years investigating the death of 4 US citizens in Bengazi; but Fox would prefer if the Democrats don't spend 5 minutes looking into the deaths of 5 people, & an attempted coup

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Fox are now describing the Democrats looking to impeach the Orange turd as a, 'vendetta'; & appealing to them to be 'gracious', in victory.

It's like they missed the entirety of the last 4 years; tearing down Obamacare, destroying institutions; hiring & firing of people, gutting the EPA, the FBI, the CIA; putting children in cages; their hypocrisy of them blocking Garland, & then forcing thru a pick during the election campaign.

Suddenly enforcing the rule of law & holding Politicians to the oaths of office the swore is a vendetta.

The GOP spend two years investigating the death of 4 US citizens in Bengazi; but Fox would prefer if the Democrats don't spend 5 minutes looking into the deaths of 5 people, & an attempted coup

You do wonder what the aim or Murdoch is in all this. He's probably (if not surely) thinking there's a serious review of the media companies coming, especially looking at how social media is legislated. And still he's letting that crap on the air

[Biffer]

Fox are now describing the Democrats looking to impeach the Orange turd as a, 'vendetta'; & appealing to them to be 'gracious', in victory.

It's like they missed the entirety of the last 4 years; tearing down Obamacare, destroying institutions; hiring & firing of people, gutting the EPA, the FBI, the CIA; putting children in cages; their hypocrisy of them blocking Garland, & then forcing thru a pick during the election campaign.

Suddenly enforcing the rule of law & holding Politicians to the oaths of office the swore is a vendetta.

The GOP spend two years investigating the death of 4 US citizens in Bengazi; but Fox would prefer if the Democrats don't spend 5 minutes looking into the deaths of 5 people, & an attempted coup

You do wonder what the aim or Murdoch is in all this. He's probably (if not surely) thinking there's a serious review of the media companies coming, especially looking at how social media is legislated. And still he's letting that crap on the air

Murdoch thinks he's untouchable.

[Biffer]

Can only speak from a UK perspective here, but I am slipping into that. My vote has never counted. Since I've been able to legally vote there have been several general elections and the de facto 2 party system imposed by FPTP plus the disturbing number of safe seats (rotten boroughs...) means my vote has never been represented in the House of Commons. The party I chose to vote for at the last election gained more than 11% of the vote, but received from that just 1.7% of parliamentary seats. As soon as a party has a majority in parliament they can do whatever they want until the next election in 5 years time. We see visible examples of politicians/the establishment getting away with shit we wouldn't and seemingly naked crony capitalism all the time (never more so than during this pandemic with Cummings' excursion and the PPE contracts for Tory mates) with no recourse to do anything about it. Writing to your MP and protesting peacefully doesn't achieve anything, the electoral system is seemingly designed to prevent anyone from outside the establishment gaining any traction. So what do we do?

However much I might disagree with the MAGA lot on what I would sneeringly refer to as their politics (and interpretation of reality), I understand a sense of futility and that the political sphere is beyond change unless you break out the guillotines.

Didn't you guys have a referendum on getting rid of FPTP recently enough?

2011 AV referendum, yes. Fraught with issue, though, as in a de facto two party system neither the main politicians nor their supporters are likely to advocate for something that reduces their parliamentary representation in favour of something more equitable. Labour had only just been turfed out after 13 years of power and the Tories had just won, so as far as they were concerned FPTP was working very nicely thank you very much.

Short sighted of them and completely unprincipled. I genuinely believe that if UKIPs vote share had actually manifested in proportionate parliamentary representation early doors, then they wouldn't have become such a cancerous influence on the Tory party and we'd have avoided the Brexit referendum altogether. Greens, Lib Dems and UKIP have all been underserved by FPTP and the longer it goes on unchecked the more the 2 party system reinforces itself.

And yet the system put in place to prevent the SNP ever getting a majority in Holyrood is actually quite a good system. Constituency plus regional lists gives PR with a cutoff of around 6% but you have your own MP plus seven or eight others who represent you regionally. You will always find an elected representative who agrees with your line.

As a point that's not relevant to anything here, I once got an old school tory and a Scottish socialist to both respond agreeing with me on a topic - the continued funding of Scottish Opera. The tory wanted them funded because opera / high culture etc, and the SSP guy wanted the 90+ unionised musicians jobs protected.

[robmatic]

Fox are now describing the Democrats looking to impeach the Orange turd as a, 'vendetta'; & appealing to them to be 'gracious', in victory.

It's like they missed the entirety of the last 4 years; tearing down Obamacare, destroying institutions; hiring & firing of people, gutting the EPA, the FBI, the CIA; putting children in cages; their hypocrisy of them blocking Garland, & then forcing thru a pick during the election campaign.

Suddenly enforcing the rule of law & holding Politicians to the oaths of office the swore is a vendetta.

The GOP spend two years investigating the death of 4 US citizens in Bengazi; but Fox would prefer if the Democrats don't spend 5 minutes looking into the deaths of 5 people, & an attempted coup

You do wonder what the aim or Murdoch is in all this. He's probably (if not surely) thinking there's a serious review of the media companies coming, especially looking at how social media is legislated. And still he's letting that crap on the air

Murdoch thinks he's untouchable.

I'm not sure he's wrong to be honest.

[Sandstorm]

As a point that's not relevant to anything here, I once got an old school tory and a Scottish socialist to both respond agreeing with me on a topic - the continued funding of Scottish Opera. The tory wanted them funded because opera / high culture etc, and the SSP guy wanted the 90+ unionised musicians jobs protected.

Where the hell were you during the Brexit negotiations??

[Rinkals]

Kim knocked off number 1 spot.

Just to make the point that I posted something similar a few months back and had to apologise for the racist tone of the pidgin.

Horrified to learn that both my mother and my sister are Trump supporters.

I knew they were ardent Brexiters and Covid denialists, but I didn't realise that they admired Trump. My sister is a high powered Architect with a number of high profile clients and I would have expected her to be more discerning.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Fox are now describing the Democrats looking to impeach the Orange turd as a, 'vendetta'; & appealing to them to be 'gracious', in victory.

It's like they missed the entirety of the last 4 years; tearing down Obamacare, destroying institutions; hiring & firing of people, gutting the EPA, the FBI, the CIA; putting children in cages; their hypocrisy of them blocking Garland, & then forcing thru a pick during the election campaign.

Suddenly enforcing the rule of law & holding Politicians to the oaths of office the swore is a vendetta.

The GOP spend two years investigating the death of 4 US citizens in Bengazi; but Fox would prefer if the Democrats don't spend 5 minutes looking into the deaths of 5 people, & an attempted coup

You do wonder what the aim or Murdoch is in all this. He's probably (if not surely) thinking there's a serious review of the media companies coming, especially looking at how social media is legislated. And still he's letting that crap on the air

Murdoch thinks he's untouchable.

Maybe, but only for as long as he's relevant. And we've seen before if change comes it can be swift and brutal which makes me think he'd want to be on the inside of directing any change. Or maybe they know that introducing even just a little sanity and decency would hit their profits hard and he's betting he'll come out on top as he has before.

[fishfoodie]

You do wonder what the aim or Murdoch is in all this. He's probably (if not surely) thinking there's a serious review of the media companies coming, especially looking at how social media is legislated. And still he's letting that crap on the air

Murdoch thinks he's untouchable.

Maybe, but only for as long as he's relevant. And we've seen before if change comes it can be swift and brutal which makes me think he'd want to be on the inside of directing any change. Or maybe they know that introducing even just a little sanity and decency would hit their profits hard and he's betting he'll come out on top as he has before.

I'd like to see Dominion & others sue him into oblivion.

There's no way in hell that they weren't fully aware that the allegations they repeated were lies;; but they did it anyway; & as a result employees of Dominion received death threats, etc, & the companies reputation was damaged. I'd sue Fox in CA, & watch him squirm, at the prospect of a 10 digit payout

[TB63]

Dominion have already started the ball rolling, issuing writs to Fox, OANN, Rudy, Lin Wood and Sidney Powell to name a few..

[Saint]

Rudy under investigation by the NY State Bar.

And Articles of Impeachment introduced on the House floor

[sturginho]

Nothing to see here

[fishfoodie]

Nothing to see here

so a coup attempt is now a, "misstep"

what was 9/11 ? ..... littering

[sturginho]

Nothing to see here

so a coup attempt is now a, "misstep"

what was 9/11 ? ..... littering

you're overplaying the deaths of those people

[Hal Jordan]

Dominion have already started the ball rolling, issuing writs to Fox, OANN, Rudy, Lin Wood and Sidney Powell to name a few..

It would be nice if they went after the shady families that bankroll the whole thing and will now move onto the next front man and astroturf organisation.

[Jockaline]

Let down by his training? What was he meant to do there other than start emptying a magazine into the crowd?

I thought he did fine delaying them for about as long as he could whilst giving ground.

He should never have been in a position of being on his own - whoever was directing the "defence" was useless.

In the footage I saw, he could have easily laid into the crowd with the asp and given them pause. It's the very basic application of a baton in defence - likely he wasn't trained properly in it's use.

Don't forget, this building was designed when government buildings were still being attacked - it is full of natural choke-points for defence.

One of the heros of the day:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55623752
https://twitter.com/search?q=Goodman&src=typed_query

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, saw that yesterday. He did a superb job

[Slick]

Yeah, saw that yesterday. He did a superb job

Not enough karate chops and ninja jumps for my liking

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, saw that yesterday. He did a superb job

Not enough karate chops and ninja jumps for my liking

I know. Too much run fu, not enough kung fu for some. Can't please everyone

[mat the expat]

Let down by his training? What was he meant to do there other than start emptying a magazine into the crowd?

I thought he did fine delaying them for about as long as he could whilst giving ground.

He should never have been in a position of being on his own - whoever was directing the "defence" was useless.

In the footage I saw, he could have easily laid into the crowd with the asp and given them pause. It's the very basic application of a baton in defence - likely he wasn't trained properly in it's use.

Don't forget, this building was designed when government buildings were still being attacked - it is full of natural choke-points for defence.

One of the heros of the day:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55623752
https://twitter.com/search?q=Goodman&src=typed_query

It goes to show the power of media - I retract my earlier comments - he did an excellent bait and switch of the crowd

[Jockaline]

[obelixtim]

Jacob Chansley, AKA Jake Angeli, Arizona man makes first court appearance in for charges related to storming the U.S. Capitol. His mom says he hasn’t eaten since Friday because the detention facility won’t feed him all organic food.

Poor old Buffalo Boy.

[Chilli]

https://www.businessinsider.com/pentago ... 021-1?IR=T

Pentagon officials sent memos on January 4 and 5 barring DC guardsmen from receiving ammo and riot gear, engaging with protesters (except for self-defense), sharing equipment with local police, and using surveillance or air assets without explicit approval from President Donald Trump's acting Defense Secretary, Christopher Miller, according to The Post.

The additional bureaucratic hurdle delayed the DC National Guard's response after US Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund asked on Wednesday for 200 guardsmen to provide backup — with guardsmen not arriving until 2 1/2 hours later — according to The Post.

MAGA Lives Matter More

What did you expect?

[Chilli]

Jacob Chansley, AKA Jake Angeli, Arizona man makes first court appearance in for charges related to storming the U.S. Capitol. His mom says he hasn’t eaten since Friday because the detention facility won’t feed him all organic food.

Poor old Buffalo Boy.

Should he not rather be in the loony bin?

[Rinkals]

https://www.businessinsider.com/pentago ... 021-1?IR=T

MAGA Lives Matter More

What did you expect?

I think it was expected and certainly doesn't come as any surprise.

It just needs to be hi lighted so that it isn't brushed under the carpet in the name of "Unity".

[Biffer]

Jacob Chansley, AKA Jake Angeli, Arizona man makes first court appearance in for charges related to storming the U.S. Capitol. His mom says he hasn’t eaten since Friday because the detention facility won’t feed him all organic food.

Poor old Buffalo Boy.

Should he not rather be in the loony bin?

[Hal Jordan]

I understand that organic food is a very important thing to the Q Incel crowd for some reason.

[Blake]

Jacob Chansley, AKA Jake Angeli, Arizona man makes first court appearance in for charges related to storming the U.S. Capitol. His mom says he hasn’t eaten since Friday because the detention facility won’t feed him all organic food.

Poor old Buffalo Boy.

Yep; maybe he should have supported the party that is pushing for prison reform and better conditions in prisons?

That being said, things could get quite sticky if this loon goes on a hunger strike.

[Uncle fester]

Good examples of how screwed their electoral system is in that thread.

[Hal Jordan]

I see Bill Belichick (head coach of the monstrously successful New England Patriots NFL team if you didn't know) has turned down the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Trump.

Best move since he quit the NY Jets, and add his name to the list of woke socialists that are cancelling Trump (the PGA, multinational corporations etc).

Trump must have run out of piss to boil with his inability to take to social media to rant about it.

[GogLais]

Inauguration Day is going to be ugly isn't it?

[Blake]

Inauguration Day is going to be ugly isn't it?

Could go either way at this point...

[fishfoodie]

Corporate America has grabbed the GOP by the scrotum; & is slowly beginning to squeeze.

The latest is Deutsche Bank telling the shitgibbion, that they won't do any further business with him.

This comes after everyday being filled with a list of companies telling it & the GOP, that they are suspending all donations to them.

Will they get the message ?