The Brexit Thread

[Openside]

Yes I'm hoping to rejoin, or at least given how the world looks today. That view might change as the World and or the EU change in ways we might not predict as of today, but I'm assuming being in a such a strong trading block with our nearest and dearest and having that block stand apart from the USA, India and China might prove useful.

Taking the piss is just for the fun of it. It's always possible it will prove influential later, and perhaps not in ways I'd like, but it's much more likely I've no influence on this site or anyone reading it, and this entire site will have no influence on future public debate.

Hmmm that Unicorn gag I see works both ways

Ah, then to clarify your misunderstanding the unicorn gag intends to convey Brexit was a fantastical promise of sunlit uplands and the afore mentioned unicorns. Whereas rejoin, as unlikely and even improbable as it looks today, has a clear path to follow if, and granted it's a big if, a democratic mandate were ever realised for it. And it's okay that rejoin looks a long process and one that's likely to stumble many times, as Max Weber noted, "politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards".

Essentially there's not an equivalence between improbable and total balderdash

Well obviously when you are the arbiter of what is Balderdash and what is improbable.

[SaintK]

Oh, and any of you truckers out there make sure you eat up all your sarnies before you get to the Dutch border

A Dutch TV network has filmed border officials confiscating ham sandwiches and other foods from drivers arriving in the Netherlands from the UK, under post-Brexit rules.
The officials were shown explaining import regulations imposed since the UK formalised its separation from the EU.
Under EU rules, travellers from outside the bloc are banned from bringing in meat and dairy products.
The rules appeared to bemuse one driver.
"Since Brexit, you are no longer allowed to bring certain foods to Europe, like meat, fruit, vegetables, fish, that kind of stuff," a Dutch border official told the driver in footage broadcast by TV network NPO 1.
In one scene, a border official asked the driver whether several of his tin-foil wrapped sandwiches had meat in them.
When the driver said they did, the border official said: "Okay, so we take them all."
Surprised, the driver then asked the officials if he could keep the bread, to which one replied: "No, everything will be confiscated - welcome to the Brexit, sir. I'm sorry."

[Dogbert]

I once smuggled a Ham Sandwich into Holland

[Glaston]

Oh, and any of you truckers out there make sure you eat up all your sarnies before you get to the Dutch border

A Dutch TV network has filmed border officials confiscating ham sandwiches and other foods from drivers arriving in the Netherlands from the UK, under post-Brexit rules.
The officials were shown explaining import regulations imposed since the UK formalised its separation from the EU.
Under EU rules, travellers from outside the bloc are banned from bringing in meat and dairy products.
The rules appeared to bemuse one driver.
"Since Brexit, you are no longer allowed to bring certain foods to Europe, like meat, fruit, vegetables, fish, that kind of stuff," a Dutch border official told the driver in footage broadcast by TV network NPO 1.
In one scene, a border official asked the driver whether several of his tin-foil wrapped sandwiches had meat in them.
When the driver said they did, the border official said: "Okay, so we take them all."
Surprised, the driver then asked the officials if he could keep the bread, to which one replied: "No, everything will be confiscated - welcome to the Brexit, sir. I'm sorry."

So this is the end of the poor old French onion seller .Time for them to retire the bicycle.

[sturginho]

I once smuggled a Ham Sandwich into Holland

"He died of dysentery......"

[Openside]

Oh, and any of you truckers out there make sure you eat up all your sarnies before you get to the Dutch border

A Dutch TV network has filmed border officials confiscating ham sandwiches and other foods from drivers arriving in the Netherlands from the UK, under post-Brexit rules.
The officials were shown explaining import regulations imposed since the UK formalised its separation from the EU.
Under EU rules, travellers from outside the bloc are banned from bringing in meat and dairy products.
The rules appeared to bemuse one driver.
"Since Brexit, you are no longer allowed to bring certain foods to Europe, like meat, fruit, vegetables, fish, that kind of stuff," a Dutch border official told the driver in footage broadcast by TV network NPO 1.
In one scene, a border official asked the driver whether several of his tin-foil wrapped sandwiches had meat in them.
When the driver said they did, the border official said: "Okay, so we take them all."
Surprised, the driver then asked the officials if he could keep the bread, to which one replied: "No, everything will be confiscated - welcome to the Brexit, sir. I'm sorry."

So this is the end of the poor old French onion seller .Time for them to retire the bicycle.

[SaintK]

Oh, and any of you truckers out there make sure you eat up all your sarnies before you get to the Dutch border

A Dutch TV network has filmed border officials confiscating ham sandwiches and other foods from drivers arriving in the Netherlands from the UK, under post-Brexit rules.
The officials were shown explaining import regulations imposed since the UK formalised its separation from the EU.
Under EU rules, travellers from outside the bloc are banned from bringing in meat and dairy products.
The rules appeared to bemuse one driver.
"Since Brexit, you are no longer allowed to bring certain foods to Europe, like meat, fruit, vegetables, fish, that kind of stuff," a Dutch border official told the driver in footage broadcast by TV network NPO 1.
In one scene, a border official asked the driver whether several of his tin-foil wrapped sandwiches had meat in them.
When the driver said they did, the border official said: "Okay, so we take them all."
Surprised, the driver then asked the officials if he could keep the bread, to which one replied: "No, everything will be confiscated - welcome to the Brexit, sir. I'm sorry."

So this is the end of the poor old French onion seller .Time for them to retire the bicycle.

Good grief! I remenber seeing them when I was a young kid down in Kent. Can't remember if the onions were any good mind you

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Hmmm that Unicorn gag I see works both ways

Ah, then to clarify your misunderstanding the unicorn gag intends to convey Brexit was a fantastical promise of sunlit uplands and the afore mentioned unicorns. Whereas rejoin, as unlikely and even improbable as it looks today, has a clear path to follow if, and granted it's a big if, a democratic mandate were ever realised for it. And it's okay that rejoin looks a long process and one that's likely to stumble many times, as Max Weber noted, "politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards".

Essentially there's not an equivalence between improbable and total balderdash

Well obviously when you are the arbiter of what is Balderdash and what is improbable.

Well yes, because there is a complete absence of writing in the field of economics about international trade deals, and certainly none that cover the EU. Why people are still trying to make an economic case for this I don't know. There are perfectly valid reasons for Brexit, and Brexit won the vote, but that reality is oddly deemed insufficient and there's still the need to claim the fantasy version

[Openside]

Ah, then to clarify your misunderstanding the unicorn gag intends to convey Brexit was a fantastical promise of sunlit uplands and the afore mentioned unicorns. Whereas rejoin, as unlikely and even improbable as it looks today, has a clear path to follow if, and granted it's a big if, a democratic mandate were ever realised for it. And it's okay that rejoin looks a long process and one that's likely to stumble many times, as Max Weber noted, "politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards".

Essentially there's not an equivalence between improbable and total balderdash

Well obviously when you are the arbiter of what is Balderdash and what is improbable.

Well yes, because there is a complete absence of writing in the field of economics about international trade deals, and certainly none that cover the EU. Why people are still trying to make an economic case for this I don't know. There are perfectly valid reasons for Brexit, and Brexit won the vote, but that reality is oddly deemed insufficient and there's still the need to claim the fantasy version

I am not claiming a fantasy version, I fully expected short term pain for long term gain.

[Random1]

Exactly. Short term pain was always going to happen.

The problem is that ‘short term’ is a phrase that needs context. Short term in this context is, for me, a minimum of 1 parliament, probably 2.

This is a structural change that will take years to rebalance.

[Guy Smiley]

I once smuggled a Ham Sandwich into Holland

[Sandstorm]

Exactly. Short term pain was always going to happen.

The problem is that ‘short term’ is a phrase that needs context. Short term in this context is, for me, a minimum of 1 parliament, probably 2.

This is a structural change that will take years to rebalance.

Short term is one good Summer with limited availability of foreign fruit pickers and imported salad from Portugal.

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/new ... ssion=true

Fishing minister Victoria Prentis, appearing before a House of Lords committee, admitted “things are tricky at the moment” but said her team is “working hard” to resolve issues as they arose.

During her appearance Ms Prentis raised eyebrows by telling peers she did not read the fisheries deal when it was published on Christmas Eve because she was “very busy organising the local Nativity trail”.

[Openside]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/new ... ssion=true

Fishing minister Victoria Prentis, appearing before a House of Lords committee, admitted “things are tricky at the moment” but said her team is “working hard” to resolve issues as they arose.

During her appearance Ms Prentis raised eyebrows by telling peers she did not read the fisheries deal when it was published on Christmas Eve because she was “very busy organising the local Nativity trail”.

That is incompetence in the extreme - No wait have I just criticised aTory? what the fuck was I thinking?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well obviously when you are the arbiter of what is Balderdash and what is improbable.

Well yes, because there is a complete absence of writing in the field of economics about international trade deals, and certainly none that cover the EU. Why people are still trying to make an economic case for this I don't know. There are perfectly valid reasons for Brexit, and Brexit won the vote, but that reality is oddly deemed insufficient and there's still the need to claim the fantasy version

I am not claiming a fantasy version, I fully expected short term pain for long term gain.

There is the possibility of long term gain, but only if you project so far into the future it's a complete guessing game. Thusly it's a fantasy. It cannot possibly be the case we're looking at a decade or two of adjustment and by the end of that period things will have corrected, the disparities in our trading volumes around the world are simply too vast, and you'd have to think even allowing for us being better able to direct compliance and organise trade deals that suit us more than the EU's deals do that's only tinkering on the margins anyway, it'll be useful tinkering of itself one hopes, but we should be under no illusions.

[Openside]

Well yes, because there is a complete absence of writing in the field of economics about international trade deals, and certainly none that cover the EU. Why people are still trying to make an economic case for this I don't know. There are perfectly valid reasons for Brexit, and Brexit won the vote, but that reality is oddly deemed insufficient and there's still the need to claim the fantasy version

I am not claiming a fantasy version, I fully expected short term pain for long term gain.

There is the possibility of long term gain, but only if you project so far into the future it's a complete guessing game. Thusly it's a fantasy. It cannot possibly be the case we're looking at a decade or two of adjustment and by the end of that period things will have corrected, the disparities in our trading volumes around the world are simply too vast, and you'd have to think even allowing for us being better able to direct compliance and organise trade deals that suit us more than the EU's deals do that's only tinkering on the margins anyway, it'll be useful tinkering of itself one hopes, but we should be under no illusions.

I think that once there is a bit of dummy spitting and posturing things will go back to pretty normal pretty quickly. (For the convenience of both sides) If however as I expect we are not the only ones to leave as there are rumblings in quite a few countries we will be ahead of the game.

[The Druid]

Oh, and any of you truckers out there make sure you eat up all your sarnies before you get to the Dutch border

A Dutch TV network has filmed border officials confiscating ham sandwiches and other foods from drivers arriving in the Netherlands from the UK, under post-Brexit rules.
The officials were shown explaining import regulations imposed since the UK formalised its separation from the EU.
Under EU rules, travellers from outside the bloc are banned from bringing in meat and dairy products.
The rules appeared to bemuse one driver.
"Since Brexit, you are no longer allowed to bring certain foods to Europe, like meat, fruit, vegetables, fish, that kind of stuff," a Dutch border official told the driver in footage broadcast by TV network NPO 1.
In one scene, a border official asked the driver whether several of his tin-foil wrapped sandwiches had meat in them.
When the driver said they did, the border official said: "Okay, so we take them all."
Surprised, the driver then asked the officials if he could keep the bread, to which one replied: "No, everything will be confiscated - welcome to the Brexit, sir. I'm sorry."

So this is the end of the poor old French onion seller .Time for them to retire the bicycle.

Can actually remember them. (Johnny Onions)

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

They just need to believe harder

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I am not claiming a fantasy version, I fully expected short term pain for long term gain.

There is the possibility of long term gain, but only if you project so far into the future it's a complete guessing game. Thusly it's a fantasy. It cannot possibly be the case we're looking at a decade or two of adjustment and by the end of that period things will have corrected, the disparities in our trading volumes around the world are simply too vast, and you'd have to think even allowing for us being better able to direct compliance and organise trade deals that suit us more than the EU's deals do that's only tinkering on the margins anyway, it'll be useful tinkering of itself one hopes, but we should be under no illusions.

I think that once there is a bit of dummy spitting and posturing things will go back to pretty normal pretty quickly. (For the convenience of both sides) If however as I expect we are not the only ones to leave as there are rumblings in quite a few countries we will be ahead of the game.

Sigh. As so often Brexit is a belief system that reality only lightly touches upon.

[Insane_Homer]

I once smuggled a Ham Sandwich into Holland

[I like neeps]

But, fish

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/new ... pression=t

Fisheries Minister didn't even read the trade deal

[Hellraiser]

I am not claiming a fantasy version, I fully expected short term pain for long term gain.

There is the possibility of long term gain, but only if you project so far into the future it's a complete guessing game. Thusly it's a fantasy. It cannot possibly be the case we're looking at a decade or two of adjustment and by the end of that period things will have corrected, the disparities in our trading volumes around the world are simply too vast, and you'd have to think even allowing for us being better able to direct compliance and organise trade deals that suit us more than the EU's deals do that's only tinkering on the margins anyway, it'll be useful tinkering of itself one hopes, but we should be under no illusions.

I think that once there is a bit of dummy spitting and posturing things will go back to pretty normal pretty quickly. (For the convenience of both sides) If however as I expect we are not the only ones to leave as there are rumblings in quite a few countries we will be ahead of the game.

Do you regard reality as simply being what you believe to be true?

[SaintK]

As £100,000's of shellfish and fish lie rotting on the quaysides around the country another one of this government's finest makes a complete arse of herself
She obviously didn't even bother to read the chapter in the Idiot's Guide to being a Minister: "If in Doubt Just Lie"
Wonder when the first lorry load of rotting fish will be dumped outside DEFRA's front door?

The fisheries minister Victoria Prentis has admitted not reading the post-Brexit trade deal with Brussels when it was agreed because she was busy organising a nativity trail. Asked for her reaction when she saw the deal with the EU on Christmas Eve, Prentis told the Lords EU environment subcommittee: “No, the agreement came when we were all very busy on Christmas Eve, in my case organising the local nativity trail.”

[sockwithaticket]

As £100,000's of shellfish and fish lie rotting on the quaysides around the country another one of this government's finest makes a complete arse of herself
She obviously didn't even bother to read the chapter in the Idiot's Guide to being a Minister: "If in Doubt Just Lie"
Wonder when the first lorry load of rotting fish will be dumped outside DEFRA's front door?

The fisheries minister Victoria Prentis has admitted not reading the post-Brexit trade deal with Brussels when it was agreed because she was busy organising a nativity trail. Asked for her reaction when she saw the deal with the EU on Christmas Eve, Prentis told the Lords EU environment subcommittee: “No, the agreement came when we were all very busy on Christmas Eve, in my case organising the local nativity trail.”

On the one hand, she's to be commended for not lying through her teeth to us.

On the other, that's so far beyond incompetent it's almost come back around on itself. But not quite. Should be fired instantly, though they'll probably take from that that they shouldn't tell the truth rather than they should ensure that they've done their jobs.

[SaintK]

As £100,000's of shellfish and fish lie rotting on the quaysides around the country another one of this government's finest makes a complete arse of herself
She obviously didn't even bother to read the chapter in the Idiot's Guide to being a Minister: "If in Doubt Just Lie"
Wonder when the first lorry load of rotting fish will be dumped outside DEFRA's front door?

The fisheries minister Victoria Prentis has admitted not reading the post-Brexit trade deal with Brussels when it was agreed because she was busy organising a nativity trail. Asked for her reaction when she saw the deal with the EU on Christmas Eve, Prentis told the Lords EU environment subcommittee: “No, the agreement came when we were all very busy on Christmas Eve, in my case organising the local nativity trail.”

On the one hand, she's to be commended for not lying through her teeth to us.

On the other, that's so far beyond incompetent it's almost come back around on itself. But not quite. Should be fired instantly, though they'll probably take from that that they shouldn't tell the truth rather than they should ensure that they've done their jobs.

Quite!

[Sandstorm]

As £100,000's of shellfish and fish lie rotting on the quaysides around the country another one of this government's finest makes a complete arse of herself
She obviously didn't even bother to read the chapter in the Idiot's Guide to being a Minister: "If in Doubt Just Lie"
Wonder when the first lorry load of rotting fish will be dumped outside DEFRA's front door?

The fisheries minister Victoria Prentis has admitted not reading the post-Brexit trade deal with Brussels when it was agreed because she was busy organising a nativity trail. Asked for her reaction when she saw the deal with the EU on Christmas Eve, Prentis told the Lords EU environment subcommittee: “No, the agreement came when we were all very busy on Christmas Eve, in my case organising the local nativity trail.”

On the one hand, she's to be commended for not lying through her teeth to us.

On the other, that's so far beyond incompetent it's almost come back around on itself. But not quite. Should be fired instantly, though they'll probably take from that that they shouldn't tell the truth rather than they should ensure that they've done their jobs.

Would it make the slightest bit of difference to fishmongers if she had read the report 4 times cover to cover?

[Insane_Homer]

[Hal Jordan]

It's almost as if these people were lied to time and again about how easy the deal would be and how we could have frictionless trade with the EU (whose fault it no doubt is, along with Remoaners, traitor judges, Gina Miller, the liberal elite, Lefties, out of touch MPs, probably Greta Thunberg, the Americans for not reelecting our friend Big Donny T and civil servants who need to find out what the real world is like).

[SaintK]

It's almost as if these people were lied to time and again about how easy the deal would be and how we could have frictionless trade with the EU (whose fault it no doubt is, along with Remoaners, traitor judges, Gina Miller, the liberal elite, Lefties, out of touch MPs, probably Greta Thunberg, the Americans for not reelecting our friend Big Donny T and civil servants who need to find out what the real world is like).

No worries, useless Eustice (another arse-licker of the PM who has been promoted way beyond his abilities) says it's just "teething toubles"

If Boris Johnson thought he was going to spend the first few weeks of 2021 basking in praise from MPs grateful that Brexit has now finally happened, he will have been disappointed. At the first PMQs of the year yesterday he faces strong complaints about the impact of the deal on Northern Ireland and on fishing communities, this morning the complaints from the DUP are only getting louder (see 10.48am and 11.41am) and this morning George Eustice, the environment secretary, spent a torrid hour or more at the despatch box in the Commons responding to an urgent question about the impact of the Brexit deal on the fishing industry.

Using exactly the same phrase that Johnson used at PMQs yesterday to play down the Northern Ireland border problems, Eustice said the difficulties faced by people in the fishing industry - including export delays, cancelled contracts, and falling prices, all the result of post-Brexit regulations - were just “teething problems”. He told MPs
Eustice suggested traders would manage much more easily once they were used to the new paperwork.

[fishfoodie]

It's almost as if these people were lied to time and again about how easy the deal would be and how we could have frictionless trade with the EU (whose fault it no doubt is, along with Remoaners, traitor judges, Gina Miller, the liberal elite, Lefties, out of touch MPs, probably Greta Thunberg, the Americans for not reelecting our friend Big Donny T and civil servants who need to find out what the real world is like).

No worries, useless Eustice (another arse-licker of the PM who has been promoted way beyond his abilities) says it's just "teething toubles"

If Boris Johnson thought he was going to spend the first few weeks of 2021 basking in praise from MPs grateful that Brexit has now finally happened, he will have been disappointed. At the first PMQs of the year yesterday he faces strong complaints about the impact of the deal on Northern Ireland and on fishing communities, this morning the complaints from the DUP are only getting louder (see 10.48am and 11.41am) and this morning George Eustice, the environment secretary, spent a torrid hour or more at the despatch box in the Commons responding to an urgent question about the impact of the Brexit deal on the fishing industry.

Using exactly the same phrase that Johnson used at PMQs yesterday to play down the Northern Ireland border problems, Eustice said the difficulties faced by people in the fishing industry - including export delays, cancelled contracts, and falling prices, all the result of post-Brexit regulations - were just “teething problems”. He told MPs
Eustice suggested traders would manage much more easily once they were used to the new paperwork.

They'll get easier too when the UK hires the 50,000 customs agents it needs.

But then it'll get considerably harder once the UK starts inspecting imports in the Mid-Year.

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 87270.html

Boris Johnson has not read text of Brexit trade deal, Downing Street signals

but he's aware that we signed a deal

[Rhubarb & Custard]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 87270.html

Boris Johnson has not read text of Brexit trade deal, Downing Street signals

but he's aware that we signed a deal

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 87270.html

Boris Johnson has not read text of Brexit trade deal, Downing Street signals

but he's aware that we signed a deal

Uh, ok, probably not.

[Ymx]

All threads are Tory Scum threads now?

[JM2K6]

Not officially, but feel free to post anywhere you wish regardless.

[Openside]

There is the possibility of long term gain, but only if you project so far into the future it's a complete guessing game. Thusly it's a fantasy. It cannot possibly be the case we're looking at a decade or two of adjustment and by the end of that period things will have corrected, the disparities in our trading volumes around the world are simply too vast, and you'd have to think even allowing for us being better able to direct compliance and organise trade deals that suit us more than the EU's deals do that's only tinkering on the margins anyway, it'll be useful tinkering of itself one hopes, but we should be under no illusions.

I think that once there is a bit of dummy spitting and posturing things will go back to pretty normal pretty quickly. (For the convenience of both sides) If however as I expect we are not the only ones to leave as there are rumblings in quite a few countries we will be ahead of the game.

Do you regard reality as simply being what you believe to be true?

Where in my statement have I suggested anything other than what I think will happen. Obviously reality is what actually happens. They may be poles apart or one and the same . Time will tell.

[Openside]

All threads are Tory Scum threads now?

Ain't that the truth. 80 seat majority was it??

[JM2K6]

"They can't be scum, because people voted for them" is a blinding observation

[fishfoodie]

"They can't be scum, because people voted for them" is a blinding observation

OS can acknowledge that Blairs war in Iraq was totally constitutional & legitimate

[Insane_Homer]

My little Brexit story import from Europe story,

So I ordered a new Fanatec Steering Wheel. It shipped from Germany and I was charged in Euros. (I've ordered twice from them before before Brexshit and the items arrived in no time and vat was charge at checkout).

When I placed this order, I was not charge VAT Fanatec.

A Few days later it shipped, via UPS.

On the tracking Android app I got a notification

you must pay.JPG (19.29 KiB) Viewed 1695 times

The UPS app give no option or method to pay (I try the help bot, that says there should be a pay now option. There isn't one), or do I pay on delivery, since the message sort of implies this (Not ideal since I won't be home on scheduled day, my kids will be). There's no indication of how much duty is due to be paid.

So I login the UPS website with my tracking information. These details show no hint or mention of the above message or Duty to be paid, just a warning triangle saying there's a delay and it should be delivered Tuesday Afternoon.

So this morning I call UPS, I get transferred 3 times before I get through to someone who will accept the payment.(Weirdly he takes payment and then verified who I was...)

I owe £72.04 in Duty - I pay, item is now released for delivery. The item was £306.27 on my credit card. Vat @ 20% is 61.20, what's the extra £10.84 duty, EU or UK charge?

UPS are not geared up for this. The information they provided was unclear and devoid of detail, contradictory and inconsistent.