So, coronavirus...

[Saint]

I suspect that relaxing restictions, to the extent that pubs etc can open freely, will also depend on how well we manage the mutations or how dangerous they turn out to be. That may require us trying to force infections levels down further than we otherwise would have. It's essential that we keep a lid on mutations that the vaccines are less able to combat.

AZ have said they expect to have a modified vaccine by the autumn, to enable another round of jabs/boosters to cope with next winter's virus season and the variants that have sprung up.

Which is a more succinct version of what I wrote - but without timescales

One of the things that I really pissing me off at the moment is journalists pushing for detailed timescales. They're close enough to the frontline that they know that's simply not possible and yet they keep on asking

[Ovals]

I suspect that relaxing restictions, to the extent that pubs etc can open freely, will also depend on how well we manage the mutations or how dangerous they turn out to be. That may require us trying to force infections levels down further than we otherwise would have. It's essential that we keep a lid on mutations that the vaccines are less able to combat.

AZ have said they expect to have a modified vaccine by the autumn, to enable another round of jabs/boosters to cope with next winter's virus season and the variants that have sprung up.

Which is a more succinct version of what I wrote - but without timescales

One of the things that I really pissing me off at the moment is journalists pushing for detailed timescales. They're close enough to the frontline that they know that's simply not possible and yet they keep on asking

Me too. As soon as they start talking about ending the lockdown, people will lose focus on the lockdown - even if it is with a caveats. And there's still too many variables to put a timescale to it. They've already stated that they'll hold a review mid Feb - let's see where we are at that point - things should be getting clearer by then - as long as everyone maintains the lockdown disciplines.

[shaggy]

The reason for wanting dates is so they can build more headlines and clicks around the failure to meet said deadline. It is not journalism for the truth, it is about carefully and manufactured storylines for entertainment.

[eldanielfire]

The reason for wanting dates is so they can build more headlines and clicks around the failure to meet said deadline. It is not journalism for the truth, it is about carefully and manufactured storylines for entertainment.

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

[Biffer]

There's a lot of misunderstanding about this. AZ have now published evidence that a larger gap improves efficacy. Given that all the vaccine are producing the same immune response, it's actually almost impossible that the same isn't true of all Covid19 vaccines - the delivery mechanism is irrelevant, it's about how the immune system responds. Relatively small differences in% efficacy for down to the numbers of people infected in the trials. 1 person can change the efficacy by 5% in some cases.

As for the US trial, I'm coming to the opinion that it will be irrelevant. Pfizer and Moderna will likely challenge AZ in court as long as it is being sold at cost

So AZ just stick a quid on each dose, 25% profit is an acceptable margin, and it's still a big whack cheaper than Pfizer or Moderna.

If they do take AZ to court because they're selling at cost, they're just ramming how me the big pharma line that people scream about all the time.

At that point they're in breach with Oxford

Easy to put a contract variation in place for that, given the purpose of the zero profit condition was primarily to ease access for poor countries

[dpedin]

The reason for wanting dates is so they can build more headlines and clicks around the failure to meet said deadline. It is not journalism for the truth, it is about carefully and manufactured storylines for entertainment.

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

Or because of the Blonde Bumblecunt previous utterings of 'it'll all be over in 12 weeks/by Easter/by Summer/by Christmas' the journalists expect to hear the same from him again? He has form and will struggle to hold his tongue and the journalists know it.

I find it staggering that where there is still over 1,000 death a day and over 23,000 cases a day (7 day averages) folk are focused on a date for easing of lock down. I understand folk are desperate but have we become immune to the number of deaths still happening every day? We are still in the midst of winter with bad weather on the way and it will be a struggle for many folk to just eat and keep warm. 1,322 deaths yesterday, over 109k so far and not one question on this to the PM at his 'eh, um, ah' briefing yesterday. Feck the dead, the dying and those struggling to survive, all everyone wants to know is when they can have a pint and a burger.

[tabascoboy]

Next week's weather could put a bit of a brake on progress, widespread snow and ice possible with transport disruption leading to vaccination cancellations. Hopefully won't last too long though as it's not what we need right now.

[GogLais]

The reason for wanting dates is so they can build more headlines and clicks around the failure to meet said deadline. It is not journalism for the truth, it is about carefully and manufactured storylines for entertainment.

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

Damn right. Tv news loves to start off with a new mutation causing concern followed eventually by "But probably the existing vaccines will still be effective".

[Slick]

The reason for wanting dates is so they can build more headlines and clicks around the failure to meet said deadline. It is not journalism for the truth, it is about carefully and manufactured storylines for entertainment.

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

Damn right. Tv news loves to start off with a new mutation causing concern followed eventually by "But probably the existing vaccines will still be effective".

Agree, we need a public enquiry into the media at the end of this as well.

[I like neeps]

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

Damn right. Tv news loves to start off with a new mutation causing concern followed eventually by "But probably the existing vaccines will still be effective".

Agree, we need a public enquiry into the media at the end of this as well.

There have been public inquiries into the media. Leveson comes to mind, but the media have their friends in politics make those go away quite quickly with no changes to how they operate.

[Raggs]

Israeli data suggesting Pfizer could be 90% effective after a single dose, but only after 21 days or more. No protection for the first 14 days, then a steady increase seemingly upto the 90%. So the longer delay put in place by the UK is looking good again.

[dpedin]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/2/e042034

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-55919040

Interesting study here Ive copied the BBC article and link to paper itself? Has its limitations but looks at a range of factors that might impact on number of deaths and spread of virus i.e. pop density, obesity, deprivation, demographics etc across a number of countries. Found that strongest correlation was with international travel. Some other interesting findings which would need more research i.e. links with BCG vaccination levels. However more research that suggests it is Gov policies and implementation that determines level of virus spread and deaths. The causation v correlation debate will continue but the evidence is mounting. Looks like Blonde Bumblecunt is slow of the mark again!

[tc27]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/2/e042034

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-55919040

Interesting study here Ive copied the BBC article and link to paper itself? Has its limitations but looks at a range of factors that might impact on number of deaths and spread of virus i.e. pop density, obesity, deprivation, demographics etc across a number of countries. Found that strongest correlation was with international travel. Some other interesting findings which would need more research i.e. links with BCG vaccination levels. However more research that suggests it is Gov policies and implementation that determines level of virus spread and deaths. The causation v correlation debate will continue but the evidence is mounting. Looks like Blonde Bumblecunt is slow of the mark again!

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

[JM2K6]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/2/e042034

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-55919040

Interesting study here Ive copied the BBC article and link to paper itself? Has its limitations but looks at a range of factors that might impact on number of deaths and spread of virus i.e. pop density, obesity, deprivation, demographics etc across a number of countries. Found that strongest correlation was with international travel. Some other interesting findings which would need more research i.e. links with BCG vaccination levels. However more research that suggests it is Gov policies and implementation that determines level of virus spread and deaths. The causation v correlation debate will continue but the evidence is mounting. Looks like Blonde Bumblecunt is slow of the mark again!

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

[GogLais]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/2/e042034

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-55919040

Interesting study here Ive copied the BBC article and link to paper itself? Has its limitations but looks at a range of factors that might impact on number of deaths and spread of virus i.e. pop density, obesity, deprivation, demographics etc across a number of countries. Found that strongest correlation was with international travel. Some other interesting findings which would need more research i.e. links with BCG vaccination levels. However more research that suggests it is Gov policies and implementation that determines level of virus spread and deaths. The causation v correlation debate will continue but the evidence is mounting. Looks like Blonde Bumblecunt is slow of the mark again!

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

This was on the news last night - questions like should they be allowed to open the windows, security guards, fencing round the sites, etc. Perfectly reasonable questions but surely we could start hotel quarantining now and bring in those further measures later if and when they're needed?

[FalseBayFC]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/2/e042034

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-55919040

Interesting study here Ive copied the BBC article and link to paper itself? Has its limitations but looks at a range of factors that might impact on number of deaths and spread of virus i.e. pop density, obesity, deprivation, demographics etc across a number of countries. Found that strongest correlation was with international travel. Some other interesting findings which would need more research i.e. links with BCG vaccination levels. However more research that suggests it is Gov policies and implementation that determines level of virus spread and deaths. The causation v correlation debate will continue but the evidence is mounting. Looks like Blonde Bumblecunt is slow of the mark again!

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It shouldn't strike you as spectacular. This is a country who voted Brexit and then thought it would be a good idea to make Bojo supreme leader. I suspect you're a far cry from the country that fought the battle of Britain and rescues the troops from Dunkirk. A country so fat and lazy they can't even bend down to pick their own strawberries. They have to bring in fitter people from Poland and Slovakia to do it.

[Biffer]

I.
just.
can't

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... re_twitter

[eldanielfire]

The reason for wanting dates is so they can build more headlines and clicks around the failure to meet said deadline. It is not journalism for the truth, it is about carefully and manufactured storylines for entertainment.

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

Or because of the Blonde Bumblecunt previous utterings of 'it'll all be over in 12 weeks/by Easter/by Summer/by Christmas' the journalists expect to hear the same from him again? He has form and will struggle to hold his tongue and the journalists know it.

This behaviour predates Boris. Also I'm sure Boris said they would follow the Science. It was reasonable sensible to assume this wouldn't last a year.

I find it staggering that where there is still over 1,000 death a day and over 23,000 cases a day (7 day averages) folk are focused on a date for easing of lock down. I understand folk are desperate but have we become immune to the number of deaths still happening every day? We are still in the midst of winter with bad weather on the way and it will be a struggle for many folk to just eat and keep warm. 1,322 deaths yesterday, over 109k so far and not one question on this to the PM at his 'eh, um, ah' briefing yesterday. Feck the dead, the dying and those struggling to survive, all everyone wants to know is when they can have a pint and a burger.

Probably (as polls suggest) most people don't blame Boris for it. They believe Boris may not have made the right decisions but this was akin to a natural disaster that isn't his fault. In fact polls suggest the blame is more heavily weighted to people not following COVID guidelines well enough.

Also just because most people want out of this, that doesn't mean they are going "feck the dead". It's not just about the dead people. People know their mental health is in bad shape. They may be living with health conditions or health fears they aren't being seen to by doctors. They don't want to live in fear. These are also valid things to be concerned about and to want to desire the end of lockdowns.

[eldanielfire]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/2/e042034

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-55919040

Interesting study here Ive copied the BBC article and link to paper itself? Has its limitations but looks at a range of factors that might impact on number of deaths and spread of virus i.e. pop density, obesity, deprivation, demographics etc across a number of countries. Found that strongest correlation was with international travel. Some other interesting findings which would need more research i.e. links with BCG vaccination levels. However more research that suggests it is Gov policies and implementation that determines level of virus spread and deaths. The causation v correlation debate will continue but the evidence is mounting. Looks like Blonde Bumblecunt is slow of the mark again!

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It's not that we can't, it's that, weirdly, like many other countries we won't do much on the issue of borders. This unwillingness is the major difference between Europe and Australia and New Zealand. It's obviously a cultural political issue.

[FalseBayFC]

I.
just.
can't

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... re_twitter

Why don' they create a Manus Island type facility on say Jersey and quarantine people there.

[Biffer]

I agree. An issue of modern news media is the desire for narratives and sensationalism over those narratives.

Or because of the Blonde Bumblecunt previous utterings of 'it'll all be over in 12 weeks/by Easter/by Summer/by Christmas' the journalists expect to hear the same from him again? He has form and will struggle to hold his tongue and the journalists know it.

This behaviour predates Boris. Also I'm sure Boris said they would follow the Science. It was reasonable sensible to assume this wouldn't last a year.

I find it staggering that where there is still over 1,000 death a day and over 23,000 cases a day (7 day averages) folk are focused on a date for easing of lock down. I understand folk are desperate but have we become immune to the number of deaths still happening every day? We are still in the midst of winter with bad weather on the way and it will be a struggle for many folk to just eat and keep warm. 1,322 deaths yesterday, over 109k so far and not one question on this to the PM at his 'eh, um, ah' briefing yesterday. Feck the dead, the dying and those struggling to survive, all everyone wants to know is when they can have a pint and a burger.

Probably (as polls suggest) most people don't blame Boris for it. They believe Boris may not have made the right decisions but this was akin to a natural disaster that isn't his fault. In fact polls suggest the blame is more heavily weighted to people not following COVID guidelines well enough.

Also just because most people want out of this, that doesn't mean they are going "feck the dead". It's not just about the dead people. People know their mental health is in bad shape. They may be living with health conditions or health fears they aren't being seen to by doctors. They don't want to live in fear. These are also valid things to be concerned about and to want to desire the end of lockdowns.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think they don't blame him for the pandemic happening as that would be dumb. But they have observed how much of a useless bumbling fuckwit he really is under pressure, and are very much aware of how his 'leadership' has not been a good thing during the crisis.

[Sandstorm]

Tories have been woeful at controlling the virus, but they have done two things very well: furlough monies and securing the vaccine. Most people I talk to have forgotten about all the bullshit & back-tracking in 2020 and are focusing on the positive future in the Springtime.

Of course everyone is still pretending the 100k+ dead people is just some obscure number on the news at 6pm....

[GogLais]

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It's not that we can't, it's that, weirdly, like many other countries we won't do much on the issue of borders. This unwillingness is the major difference between Europe and Australia and New Zealand. It's obviously a cultural political issue.

But we voted to restrict immigration didn’t we?

[Rinkals]

And of course the leaders of the devolved admins who have being almost as tardy at restricting travel (something that's always being within their legislative competence). Hopefully the right people get held to account.

Anyway the UK government is currently being pathetic in introducing quarantine for passengers arriving in England - apparently its 'too hard' to arrange to keep people in a hotel for two weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55932464

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It shouldn't strike you as spectacular. This is a country who voted Brexit and then thought it would be a good idea to make Bojo supreme leader. I suspect you're a far cry from the country that fought the battle of Britain and rescues the troops from Dunkirk. A country so fat and lazy they can't even bend down to pick their own strawberries. They have to bring in fitter people from Poland and Slovakia to do it.

Jesus, Boet!

Say what you really think!



Just to add, that I disagree with JMK's assessment: I think that Britain's strengths are the ingenuity of the population, particularly in engineering and science.

[Sandstorm]

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It shouldn't strike you as spectacular. This is a country who voted Brexit and then thought it would be a good idea to make Bojo supreme leader. I suspect you're a far cry from the country that fought the battle of Britain and rescues the troops from Dunkirk. A country so fat and lazy they can't even bend down to pick their own strawberries. They have to bring in fitter people from Poland and Slovakia to do it.

Jesus, Boet!

Say what you really think!

Says the blokes living in a country where middle class people are too lazy to pick up their own bath towel.

[Biffer]

Tories have been woeful at controlling the virus, but they have done two things very well: furlough monies and securing the vaccine. Most people I talk to have forgotten about all the bullshit & back-tracking in 2020 and are focusing on the positive future in the Springtime.

Of course everyone is still pretending the 100k+ dead people is just some obscure number on the news at 6pm....

Yeah, however, the stench of all the incompetence will, I think, hang around in this case. Similar effect to Black Wednesday.

[Rinkals]

It shouldn't strike you as spectacular. This is a country who voted Brexit and then thought it would be a good idea to make Bojo supreme leader. I suspect you're a far cry from the country that fought the battle of Britain and rescues the troops from Dunkirk. A country so fat and lazy they can't even bend down to pick their own strawberries. They have to bring in fitter people from Poland and Slovakia to do it.

Jesus, Boet!

Say what you really think!

Says the blokes living in a country where middle class people are too lazy to pick up their own bath towel.

Speak for yourself, buddy.

Things have changed a bit since you lived here.

[JM2K6]

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It shouldn't strike you as spectacular. This is a country who voted Brexit and then thought it would be a good idea to make Bojo supreme leader. I suspect you're a far cry from the country that fought the battle of Britain and rescues the troops from Dunkirk. A country so fat and lazy they can't even bend down to pick their own strawberries. They have to bring in fitter people from Poland and Slovakia to do it.

Jesus, Boet!

Say what you really think!



Just to add, that I disagree with JMK's assessment: I think that Britain's strengths are the ingenuity of the population, particularly in engineering and science.

I am talking about things on a national & government scale rather than individual or corporate (although in the latter case I have no idea if we're better or worse than many other countries).

[Biffer]

over 45,000 vaccinated yesterday in Scotland.

Suggests the ramp up is going as intended.

That's 1.3% of the 9 priority groups in a day.

[Lobby]

Or because of the Blonde Bumblecunt previous utterings of 'it'll all be over in 12 weeks/by Easter/by Summer/by Christmas' the journalists expect to hear the same from him again? He has form and will struggle to hold his tongue and the journalists know it.

This behaviour predates Boris. Also I'm sure Boris said they would follow the Science. It was reasonable sensible to assume this wouldn't last a year.

I find it staggering that where there is still over 1,000 death a day and over 23,000 cases a day (7 day averages) folk are focused on a date for easing of lock down. I understand folk are desperate but have we become immune to the number of deaths still happening every day? We are still in the midst of winter with bad weather on the way and it will be a struggle for many folk to just eat and keep warm. 1,322 deaths yesterday, over 109k so far and not one question on this to the PM at his 'eh, um, ah' briefing yesterday. Feck the dead, the dying and those struggling to survive, all everyone wants to know is when they can have a pint and a burger.

Probably (as polls suggest) most people don't blame Boris for it. They believe Boris may not have made the right decisions but this was akin to a natural disaster that isn't his fault. In fact polls suggest the blame is more heavily weighted to people not following COVID guidelines well enough.

Also just because most people want out of this, that doesn't mean they are going "feck the dead". It's not just about the dead people. People know their mental health is in bad shape. They may be living with health conditions or health fears they aren't being seen to by doctors. They don't want to live in fear. These are also valid things to be concerned about and to want to desire the end of lockdowns.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think they don't blame him for the pandemic happening as that would be dumb. But they have observed how much of a useless bumbling fuckwit he really is under pressure, and are very much aware of how his 'leadership' has not been a good thing during the crisis.

And yet the Tories have increased their lead over Labour to 6 points in the latest polls. The success of the vaccine roll out is clearly having an impact.

[Paddington Bear]

I guess one element of the Tory lead is that Starmer has increasingly become seemingly as indecisive as Boris - his numbers are well down.

Not to mention you should expect to hear 'Starmer would have kept us in the EU vaccine scheme' every day until the next election.

tl;dr - Labour are still a joke and unless and until that changes the Tories will struggle to be much below 35%.

[Margin__Walker]

6 point lead is an outlier at this point. Redfield and ComRes had 2 and 3 point leads for the same fieldwork dates. Yougov had Labour leading the week before.

That said, the vaccination performance is definitely a political problem for Labour (although clearly great news generally). Looks reasonably possible that the Government could have mostly had a shocker of a pandemic, but be remembered for a strong end to it.

[Lobby]

I guess one element of the Tory lead is that Starmer has increasingly become seemingly as indecisive as Boris - his numbers are well down.

Not to mention you should expect to hear 'Starmer would have kept us in the EU vaccine scheme' every day until the next election.

tl;dr - Labour are still a joke and unless and until that changes the Tories will struggle to be much below 35%.

Yes, at present the vaccine roll out is the gift that keeps on giving for the Tories:

It is a success in and of itself.

Because the EU screwed up their own procurement, and had such a spectacular melt down about comparisons with the UK, it is also being seen (rightly or wrongly) as a Brexit success

And, as you say, because we would probably have been part of the EU scheme if Labour had been in charge, it also portrays Labour as a worse option than the Tories.

[eldanielfire]

Or because of the Blonde Bumblecunt previous utterings of 'it'll all be over in 12 weeks/by Easter/by Summer/by Christmas' the journalists expect to hear the same from him again? He has form and will struggle to hold his tongue and the journalists know it.

This behaviour predates Boris. Also I'm sure Boris said they would follow the Science. It was reasonable sensible to assume this wouldn't last a year.

I find it staggering that where there is still over 1,000 death a day and over 23,000 cases a day (7 day averages) folk are focused on a date for easing of lock down. I understand folk are desperate but have we become immune to the number of deaths still happening every day? We are still in the midst of winter with bad weather on the way and it will be a struggle for many folk to just eat and keep warm. 1,322 deaths yesterday, over 109k so far and not one question on this to the PM at his 'eh, um, ah' briefing yesterday. Feck the dead, the dying and those struggling to survive, all everyone wants to know is when they can have a pint and a burger.

Probably (as polls suggest) most people don't blame Boris for it. They believe Boris may not have made the right decisions but this was akin to a natural disaster that isn't his fault. In fact polls suggest the blame is more heavily weighted to people not following COVID guidelines well enough.

Also just because most people want out of this, that doesn't mean they are going "feck the dead". It's not just about the dead people. People know their mental health is in bad shape. They may be living with health conditions or health fears they aren't being seen to by doctors. They don't want to live in fear. These are also valid things to be concerned about and to want to desire the end of lockdowns.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think they don't blame him for the pandemic happening as that would be dumb. But they have observed how much of a useless bumbling fuckwit he really is under pressure, and are very much aware of how his 'leadership' has not been a good thing during the crisis.

I'm not so sure. Maybe people into politics on the internet and in chattering classes. But such people tend to relate everything to political decisions being right or wrong. However most people don't. As I said the surveys on the matter suggest differently, that Boris didn't do a good job, but it's not his fault in unprecedented circumstances and times and that the public are largely to blame for the spread of COVID. Healthcare workers even agree on this. That is what the data most likely shows.

Britons say the public is more to blame than the government for recent increases in COVID cases – and healthcare workers agree

HEALTHCARE WORKERS (22-31 Jan)
Public - 50%
Government - 35%

GENERAL POPULATION (11 Jan)
Public - 58%
Government - 28%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/arti ... kers_blame

And are a few opinion polls over the last number of months which also show this.

[eldanielfire]

It's quite spectacular just how fucking hopeless we are at things that take a little bit of ingenuity, effort, and compromise. Other countries can manage it, but it's too hard for dear old Blighty.

It's not that we can't, it's that, weirdly, like many other countries we won't do much on the issue of borders. This unwillingness is the major difference between Europe and Australia and New Zealand. It's obviously a cultural political issue.

But we voted to restrict immigration didn’t we?

That's what Remainers and metropolitan Labour voters then to push. The data suggests Immigration controls is what people actually desire. Which may mean restriction where needed, or it may mean expanding where needed.

[Biffer]

This behaviour predates Boris. Also I'm sure Boris said they would follow the Science. It was reasonable sensible to assume this wouldn't last a year.





Probably (as polls suggest) most people don't blame Boris for it. They believe Boris may not have made the right decisions but this was akin to a natural disaster that isn't his fault. In fact polls suggest the blame is more heavily weighted to people not following COVID guidelines well enough.

Also just because most people want out of this, that doesn't mean they are going "feck the dead". It's not just about the dead people. People know their mental health is in bad shape. They may be living with health conditions or health fears they aren't being seen to by doctors. They don't want to live in fear. These are also valid things to be concerned about and to want to desire the end of lockdowns.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think they don't blame him for the pandemic happening as that would be dumb. But they have observed how much of a useless bumbling fuckwit he really is under pressure, and are very much aware of how his 'leadership' has not been a good thing during the crisis.

I'm not so sure. Maybe people into politics on the internet and in chattering classes. But such people tend to relate everything to political decisions being right or wrong. However most people don't. As I said the surveys on the matter suggest differently, that Boris didn't do a good job, but it's not his fault in unprecedented circumstances and times and that the public are largely to blame for the spread of COVID. Healthcare workers even agree on this. That is what the data most likely shows.

Britons say the public is more to blame than the government for recent increases in COVID cases – and healthcare workers agree

HEALTHCARE WORKERS (22-31 Jan)
Public - 50%
Government - 35%

GENERAL POPULATION (11 Jan)
Public - 58%
Government - 28%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/arti ... kers_blame

And are a few opinion polls over the last number of months which also show this.

No doubt my opinion is coloured by being in Scotland

But if the Tories remain popular down south with this shower in charge, then the Union is only getting deader.

[eldanielfire]

6 point lead is an outlier at this point. Redfield and ComRes had 2 and 3 point leads for the same fieldwork dates. Yougov had Labour leading the week before.

That said, the vaccination performance is definitely a political problem for Labour (although clearly great news generally). Looks reasonably possible that the Government could have mostly had a shocker of a pandemic, but be remembered for a strong end to it.

Several polls have shown a small Tory lead. I know because every other week #starmerout or some variant of it trends and Corbynistas throw out sarcastic tweets about how it was claimed any non-Corbyn leader would be 20 points ahead and drone on about the 2017 election as if Corbyn did lose.

[eldanielfire]

No doubt my opinion is coloured by being in Scotland

But if the Tories remain popular down south with this shower in charge, then the Union is only getting deader.

We will see. The fact is the Tories won't offer another referendum and will use Sturgeon's own "2014 was once in a generation" words against her forever.

[Biffer]

No doubt my opinion is coloured by being in Scotland

But if the Tories remain popular down south with this shower in charge, then the Union is only getting deader.

We will see. The fact is the Tories won't offer another referendum and will use Sturgeon's own "2014 was once in a generation" words against her forever.

Let's not get into what a generation is, who said it and how much it applies when being used as political rhetoric on this thread.

[Openside]

This behaviour predates Boris. Also I'm sure Boris said they would follow the Science. It was reasonable sensible to assume this wouldn't last a year.





Probably (as polls suggest) most people don't blame Boris for it. They believe Boris may not have made the right decisions but this was akin to a natural disaster that isn't his fault. In fact polls suggest the blame is more heavily weighted to people not following COVID guidelines well enough.

Also just because most people want out of this, that doesn't mean they are going "feck the dead". It's not just about the dead people. People know their mental health is in bad shape. They may be living with health conditions or health fears they aren't being seen to by doctors. They don't want to live in fear. These are also valid things to be concerned about and to want to desire the end of lockdowns.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think they don't blame him for the pandemic happening as that would be dumb. But they have observed how much of a useless bumbling fuckwit he really is under pressure, and are very much aware of how his 'leadership' has not been a good thing during the crisis.

I'm not so sure. Maybe people into politics on the internet and in chattering classes. But such people tend to relate everything to political decisions being right or wrong. However most people don't. As I said the surveys on the matter suggest differently, that Boris didn't do a good job, but it's not his fault in unprecedented circumstances and times and that the public are largely to blame for the spread of COVID. Healthcare workers even agree on this. That is what the data most likely shows.

Britons say the public is more to blame than the government for recent increases in COVID cases – and healthcare workers agree

HEALTHCARE WORKERS (22-31 Jan)
Public - 50%
Government - 35%

GENERAL POPULATION (11 Jan)
Public - 58%
Government - 28%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/arti ... kers_blame

And are a few opinion polls over the last number of months which also show this.

of course its peoples fault, the Govt. has been a contributory factor but it is people abdicating all personal responsibility for their own actions that is the vast majority of responsibility for the spread. these days it is always someone else's fault!!