New law trials

[Ymx]

I know it’s been brought up in the Supe Thread. But there are more on trial than the two which were discussed. And open it up to the full bored.

Notably they’ve taken our advice with Red card 20 mins replacement.

https://www.ruck.co.uk/radical-new-laws ... ble-again/

RUGBY LAW TRIALS:

RED CARD – ability to replace red-carded player after 20 minutes

GOAL-LINE DROP-OUT for held-up, knock-in in goal or forcing/grounding a ball which is kicking into in-goal. Reward defensive team with a drop-out anywhere on goal-line

NO MARK IN 22M – for kicks which originate in attacking 22m. The kick can be marked in goal. Restart with a 22m drop-out

50:22 AND 22:50 – reward indirect free-kicks to touch with the lineout throw

GOLDEN POINT/TRY – If the match is drawn at full-time, the match goes to extra-time with the winner determined by either first try or points scored

CAPTAIN’S CHALLENGE – Team allowed one captain’s challenge but only for try-scoring, foul play or last five minutes of each half. Retain challenge if successful

KICK-OFF AND RESTARTS – Opposition team restarts with a drop-out and within 30 seconds of conversion or penalty-kick/drop goal

[laurent]

Seriously you guys should start playing league rather than Union, there would hardly need rule changes.


Golden point is shite (was played in the autumn nations) if you need a tie breaker for whatever shite reason give it to away team.

[Sinkers]

I quite liked that bit last year where they actually enforced the existing rules around the ruck. Had a great positive impact on the game once everybody got used to it.

That was enough frankly and I’m having difficulty understanding why they don’t implement that instead of a constant cycle of trials that then seem to go nowhere.

[Ymx]

Bits which bother me

50/22 rule. Cool more kicking to touch. Great.

Held up over line suggests a defender kick out from goal line as opposed to 5m scrum to the attacking team. Plus these guys can hoof the crap out of a droppy so feels a bit backward in this scenario. But fine on the scenarios where it replaces 22 drop out.

And agree re golden point. Stupid and arbitrary.

As to the others

Red card is a welcome change. Less ruined games.

Captain challenge. I don’t see much difference. The ref pretty much always goes to TMO if captain or crowd or local broadcaster complains about something.

I like the sounds of the no mark in 22. Some interesting cross kick attacks will result in this. Something we might find a use for Jordie Barrett on the wing for.

Restart time. I didn’t see the need for this. Not really noticed much slow down in this area. And presumably refs have such authority anyway to get game underway for time wasting.

[laurent]

Bits which bother me

50/22 rule. Cool more kicking to touch. Great.

Held up over line suggests a defender kick out from goal line as opposed to 5m scrum to the attacking team. Plus these guys can hoof the crap out of a droppy so feels a bit backward in this scenario. But fine on the scenarios where it replaces 22 drop out.

And agree re golden point. Stupid and arbitrary.

As to the others

Red card is a welcome change. Less ruined games.

Captain challenge. I don’t see much difference. The ref pretty much always goes to TMO if captain or crowd or local broadcaster complains about something.

I like the sounds of the no mark in 22. Some interesting cross kick attacks will result in this. Something we might find a use for Jordie Barrett on the wing for.

Restart time. I didn’t see the need for this. Not really noticed much slow down in this area. And presumably refs have such authority anyway to get game underway for time wasting.

Should apply the 30 sec rule to penalties / conversion if they really want to speed the game up.

[average joe]

Seriously you guys should start playing league rather than Union, there would hardly need rule changes.


Golden point is shite (was played in the autumn nations) if you need a tie breaker for whatever shite reason give it to away team.

So a team who lost to the other team in an earlier game and/or who is placed lower on the overall log gets to be declared the winner just because they're not playing at home? That would have meant that the Sharks would have won the Currie Cup instead of the Bulls. Utterly moronic seeing as the Bull's was the "flagship" team of this Currie Cup and deserved winners. You might as well just draw straws or through a dice or even worse let every player kick for goal.

[Slick]

Captains challenge can piss of as well. It's a fundamental of rugby that the ref is correct. I know we have TMO, but at least it's still a ref correcting a ref.

I hate pro rugby.

[Ymx]

Captains challenge can piss of as well. It's a fundamental of rugby that the ref is correct. I know we have TMO, but at least it's still a ref correcting a ref.

I hate pro rugby.

I’m pretty sure it’s just the ability to have it referred upstairs if it wasn’t, and the captain has seen something. Like with cricket, tennis. Like I say I don’t think it will make much difference as the refs are pretty much always checking something if there’s a slight gripe. It just formalises what’s been happening

[laurent]

Seriously you guys should start playing league rather than Union, there would hardly need rule changes.


Golden point is shite (was played in the autumn nations) if you need a tie breaker for whatever shite reason give it to away team.

So a team who lost to the other team in an earlier game and/or who is placed lower on the overall log gets to be declared the winner just because they're not playing at home? That would have meant that the Sharks would have won the Currie Cup instead of the Bulls. Utterly moronic seeing as the Bull's was the "flagship" team of this Currie Cup and deserved winners. You might as well just draw straws or through a dice or even worse let every player kick for goal.

The tie breaker is stupid to start with most are. see the final of the autumn cup for a golden score.

I had to sit through a drawn final where tie breaker was first try scored (amounts to team that had the wind in the first half) so coin toss pregame in that case.

only decent tie break is overtime / kicks in finals. the golden score is rubbish especially when done in standard season as planned in that competition.

[Slick]

Captains challenge can piss of as well. It's a fundamental of rugby that the ref is correct. I know we have TMO, but at least it's still a ref correcting a ref.

I hate pro rugby.

I’m pretty sure it’s just the ability to have it referred upstairs if it wasn’t, and the captain has seen something. Like with cricket, tennis. Like I say I don’t think it will make much difference as the refs are pretty much always checking something if there’s a slight gripe. It just formalises what’s been happening

You are probably right that it won't make much material difference, but I think it makes a big difference in the ethos of rugby which I think is important. There is already too much chat from captains and players, I can quite easily see more of this and also little huddles after each stop in play while the players suggest things to moan about to the captain.

[Kiap]

Bits which bother me

50/22 rule. Cool more kicking to touch. Great.

As you know, there's more to it.

[Hal Jordan]

Red card replacement and captain's challenge are the stupidest in this list. Don't want a ruined game? Don't get sent off, you stupid twat. Don't like the ref's decision? STFU, this isn't NFL and you can't whip a flag out of your sock and chuck it on the ground.

[JM2K6]

Reds cards frequently make for compelling matches.

[Slick]

Red card replacement and captain's challenge are the stupidest in this list. Don't want a ruined game? Don't get sent off, you stupid twat. Don't like the ref's decision? STFU, this isn't NFL and you can't whip a flag out of your sock and chuck it on the ground.

It would be like a ticker tape parade every time Ireland played.

[Slick]

Reds cards frequently make for compelling matches.

Nah, that's bollocks.

[average joe]

The tie breaker is stupid to start with most are. see the final of the autumn cup for a golden score.

I had to sit through a drawn final where tie breaker was first try scored (amounts to team that had the wind in the first half) so coin toss pregame in that case.

only decent tie break is overtime / kicks in finals. the golden score is rubbish especially when done in standard season as planned in that competition.

Sure it's stupid but so is just giving it to the away team. If you want to go that route why not just give it to the home team. I mean normally a team "wins" the right to play a final at home because they are top of the log meaning they won more games and/or scored more points.

And before we even go there, I prefer there to be a winner in finals. This old school nonsense of sharing the cup can fok right off.

[JM2K6]

Reds cards frequently make for compelling matches.

Nah, that's bollocks.

Every time this argument comes up I point to many matches we've had in the last 5-6 years where a red card has altered things but not made the result a foregone conclusion and instead just added to the drama.

[laurent]

The tie breaker is stupid to start with most are. see the final of the autumn cup for a golden score.

I had to sit through a drawn final where tie breaker was first try scored (amounts to team that had the wind in the first half) so coin toss pregame in that case.

only decent tie break is overtime / kicks in finals. the golden score is rubbish especially when done in standard season as planned in that competition.

Sure it's stupid but so is just giving it to the away team. If you want to go that route why not just give it to the home team. I mean normally a team "wins" the right to play a final at home because they are top of the log meaning they won more games and/or scored more points.

And before we even go there, I prefer there to be a winner in finals. This old school nonsense of sharing the cup can fok right off.

There is no home final in properly run competition. :p
This tie break is for regular games.

[average joe]

The tie breaker is stupid to start with most are. see the final of the autumn cup for a golden score.

I had to sit through a drawn final where tie breaker was first try scored (amounts to team that had the wind in the first half) so coin toss pregame in that case.

only decent tie break is overtime / kicks in finals. the golden score is rubbish especially when done in standard season as planned in that competition.

Sure it's stupid but so is just giving it to the away team. If you want to go that route why not just give it to the home team. I mean normally a team "wins" the right to play a final at home because they are top of the log meaning they won more games and/or scored more points.

And before we even go there, I prefer there to be a winner in finals. This old school nonsense of sharing the cup can fok right off.

There is no home final in properly run competition. :p
This tie break is for regular games.

You mean like a World Cup? Because it's basically played on neutral ground unless you're the host nation.
Why would you need a tie break for regular games? It's a fokon draw, both teams get the same fokon points.

[Raggs]

Reds cards frequently make for compelling matches.

Nah, that's bollocks.

Every time this argument comes up I point to many matches we've had in the last 5-6 years where a red card has altered things but not made the result a foregone conclusion and instead just added to the drama.

Yep, astounding how many red card games actually go on to be fascinating battles.

[GogLais]

Not replacing a sent off player deters teams from maiming the opposition star player knowing that with this proposal they would not go down to fourteen. I think that sanction needs to stay, twenty minutes with fourteen men isn't enough.

[laurent]

Sure it's stupid but so is just giving it to the away team. If you want to go that route why not just give it to the home team. I mean normally a team "wins" the right to play a final at home because they are top of the log meaning they won more games and/or scored more points.

And before we even go there, I prefer there to be a winner in finals. This old school nonsense of sharing the cup can fok right off.

There is no home final in properly run competition. :p
This tie break is for regular games.

You mean like a World Cup? Because it's basically played on neutral ground unless you're the host nation.
Why would you need a tie break for regular games? It's a fokon draw, both teams get the same fokon points.

That's the issue really ...

[sockwithaticket]

The only one I'm interest in is the goal line drop out for holding up over the line. I think the defence actually deserves more of a reward than defending a 5m scrum in those situations. Kicking possession (back to the opposition) might fit the bill.

Nah, that's bollocks.

Every time this argument comes up I point to many matches we've had in the last 5-6 years where a red card has altered things but not made the result a foregone conclusion and instead just added to the drama.

Yep, astounding how many red card games actually go on to be fascinating battles.

+1

They only 'ruin' a game when there's a quality gulf between the teams. Closely matched teams make it work and the reduced team often wins.

[Sinkers]

I like the defending team getting the reward for holding up over the line.
But the 5m scrum going to the defending team seems like a good balance of rewarding that while also rewarding the attacking team for gaining the field position in the first place?

[Niegs]

50:22 AND 22:50 – reward indirect free-kicks to touch with the lineout throw

'indirect free-kicks' ... what's this? Does it just mean kicks to touch that land in-field first?

And does the 22:50 apply when a ball is passed back over the 22m line?

[Kiap]

50:22 AND 22:50 – reward indirect free-kicks to touch with the lineout throw

'indirect free-kicks' ... what's this? Does it just mean kicks to touch that land in-field first?

And does the 22:50 apply when a ball is passed back over the 22m line?

1. Yes
2. No

Imo, while it does what's intended, it should be a bit harder ... 40:22.

[Lemoentjie]

World Rugby: We need to protect players, not enough is being done about high tackles, straight red for contact to the head

Also World Rugby: Reduced impact of a red card

You couldn't make it up. Who are these fucking morons

[Sandstorm]

World Rugby: We need to protect players, not enough is being done about high tackles, straight red for contact to the head

Also World Rugby: Reduced impact of a red card

You couldn't make it up. Who are these fucking morons

Yeah, but "destroying the contest..."

[Tichtheid]

I'm not a fan of the drop from the goal line, as has been said the modern ball can be cleared back over the half way line easily enough. If they go to a scrum, as happens now, the attacking team is rewarded by the fact the defending team will probably give a up a lineout at best 30m from the goal line.

The no mark from a kick in the 22 - "hoof it, get it in the fackin mixer" is going to become pretty dull fare after a short while.

[JM2K6]

The no mark from a kick in the 22 - "hoof it, get it in the fackin mixer" is going to become pretty dull fare after a short while.

And probably dangerous, too. Players are going to get absolutely monstered having caught the ball, and an increase in contested 22m kicks means higher rates of dodgy air collisions.

[Slick]

The only one I'm interest in is the goal line drop out for holding up over the line. I think the defence actually deserves more of a reward than defending a 5m scrum in those situations. Kicking possession (back to the opposition) might fit the bill.

Every time this argument comes up I point to many matches we've had in the last 5-6 years where a red card has altered things but not made the result a foregone conclusion and instead just added to the drama.

Yep, astounding how many red card games actually go on to be fascinating battles.

+1

They only 'ruin' a game when there's a quality gulf between the teams. Closely matched teams make it work and the reduced team often wins.

Blah blah blah i'm not listening.

[Yr Alban]

Captains challenge can piss of as well. It's a fundamental of rugby that the ref is correct. I know we have TMO, but at least it's still a ref correcting a ref.

I hate pro rugby.

I’ll be absolutely fine with Captain’s challenge as long as there is a crackdown on players who think they are the ref and spend half the game moaning to the actual ref. Ireland especially bad for this.

[laurent]

Captains challenge can piss of as well. It's a fundamental of rugby that the ref is correct. I know we have TMO, but at least it's still a ref correcting a ref.

I hate pro rugby.

I’ll be absolutely fine with Captain’s challenge as long as there is a crackdown on players who think they are the ref and spend half the game moaning to the actual ref. Ireland especially bad for this.

It further separate pro from amateur Game where obviously there are no video camera to review the action.

[Niegs]

World Rugby: We need to protect players, not enough is being done about high tackles, straight red for contact to the head

Also World Rugby: Reduced impact of a red card

You couldn't make it up. Who are these fucking morons

Yeah, but "destroying the contest..."

It's further evidence fueling my belief that they make policies based upon trending social media. "Concussions are a threat to the future of the game!" but also "How is that a red?! Ref ruined the game! Game's gone soft!"

[Dan54]

Captains challenge can piss of as well. It's a fundamental of rugby that the ref is correct. I know we have TMO, but at least it's still a ref correcting a ref.

[Dan54]

I know it’s been brought up in the Supe Thread. But there are more on trial than the two which were discussed. And open it up to the full bored.

Notably they’ve taken our advice with Red card 20 mins replacement.

https://www.ruck.co.uk/radical-new-laws ... ble-again/

RUGBY LAW TRIALS:

RED CARD – ability to replace red-carded player after 20 minutes

GOAL-LINE DROP-OUT for held-up, knock-in in goal or forcing/grounding a ball which is kicking into in-goal. Reward defensive team with a drop-out anywhere on goal-line

NO MARK IN 22M – for kicks which originate in attacking 22m. The kick can be marked in goal. Restart with a 22m drop-out

50:22 AND 22:50 – reward indirect free-kicks to touch with the lineout throw

GOLDEN POINT/TRY – If the match is drawn at full-time, the match goes to extra-time with the winner determined by either first try or points scored

CAPTAIN’S CHALLENGE – Team allowed one captain’s challenge but only for try-scoring, foul play or last five minutes of each half. Retain challenge if successful

KICK-OFF AND RESTARTS – Opposition team restarts with a drop-out and within 30 seconds of conversion or penalty-kick/drop goal

Most of those are only in Aus I think, and were played there last year. And I might add to no great benefit to the game that I noticed. NZ haven't got the 50.22 shit or no mark in 22 that I know of.

[sorCrer]

Bits which bother me

50/22 rule. Cool more kicking to touch. Great.

Held up over line suggests a defender kick out from goal line as opposed to 5m scrum to the attacking team. Plus these guys can hoof the crap out of a droppy so feels a bit backward in this scenario. But fine on the scenarios where it replaces 22 drop out.

And agree re golden point. Stupid and arbitrary.

As to the others

Red card is a welcome change. Less ruined games.

Captain challenge. I don’t see much difference. The ref pretty much always goes to TMO if captain or crowd or local broadcaster complains about something.

I like the sounds of the no mark in 22. Some interesting cross kick attacks will result in this. Something we might find a use for Jordie Barrett on the wing for.

Restart time. I didn’t see the need for this. Not really noticed much slow down in this area. And presumably refs have such authority anyway to get game underway for time wasting.

Should apply the 30 sec rule to penalties / conversion if they really want to speed the game up.

Or call the ball playable as soon as the scrummie touches it. The refs all shouting 'use it. use it' which the scrummie completely ignore while a longer & longer tail is formed as he rolls the ball back does my head in.

[MungoMan]

I could cheerfully live with seeing none of the to-be-trialled law changes becoming permanent. Golden shower in particular is an abomination that I already loathe in league. You can stick captain's challenge up your fundamental as well.

[Openside]

The no mark from a kick in the 22 - "hoof it, get it in the fackin mixer" is going to become pretty dull fare after a short while.

And probably dangerous, too. Players are going to get absolutely monstered having caught the ball, and an increase in contested 22m kicks means higher rates of dodgy air collisions.

Totally agree its just going to encourage endless garryowens or cross field kicks with more people sent off because Biggar decides to jump on top of them.

[Niegs]

I don't think teams will try this regularly because you'd have to be accurate / you kick possession away, but there's an example right at the start of why the goal line drop out trial can be lame. 'Aimless' kick rolls just in goal and the defending team have to kick from goal... seems to reward 'negative' play when this sort of thing would be pounded back to half or further from a 22 drop out. Highlanders get into a good position on the return.




... I'm only halfway through, but there's also a moment where we might have seen no mark on kicks inside 22m but it was a penalty advantage. Looks a bit risky to the receiver. Can see players totally getting smashed/swarmed once they hit the ground.