Mike Tindall - dodges tax better than he dodged defenders.

[Kawazaki]

ROYAL husband Mike Tindall has been claiming furlough cash for his business even though he is reportedly worth more than £15million.

The ex-England rugby star, 42 — married to the Queen’s grand-daughter Zara — sought government aid for the firm which manages his speaking engagements after they dried up.

Last year the England World Cup winner was named the globe’s fourth-richest rugby player — worth an estimated £15.7million — by Ruck magazine.

Accounts for his firm Kimble Trading Ltd, filed in December, state: “The outbreak of Covid-19 and subsequent restrictions imposed have led to a number of events in 2020 being cancelled.

“The company has taken advantage of all available government aid in order to support the business and its employees through the crisis.”

According to the accounts, the company has only one member of staff — believed to be Tindall himself.

It also appears on a government list of firms using the furlough scheme, which pays 80 per cent of a worker’s salary.

Tory MP Nigel Mills said: “It’s a bit rich for Mike Tindall to be taking money from the public purse.”

Tindall’s business accounts are published every year. Forensic accountant Steve Hale, of Perrys, examined them for The Sun.

He said: “Under normal circumstances, Mike Tindall appears to make most of his money through share dividends and interest-free loans from his company. Over the years he has ‘borrowed’ nearly £330,000, and every year he adds to this ‘debt’.

“It’s a way of taking money out of the business while paying less tax in the short term.

“He will also pay himself a small salary — small enough that he won’t have to pay National Insurance on it, probably around £730 a month.

[SaintK]

Spoiler

Show

ROYAL husband Mike Tindall has been claiming furlough cash for his business even though he is reportedly worth more than £15million.

The ex-England rugby star, 42 — married to the Queen’s grand-daughter Zara — sought government aid for the firm which manages his speaking engagements after they dried up.

Last year the England World Cup winner was named the globe’s fourth-richest rugby player — worth an estimated £15.7million — by Ruck magazine.

Accounts for his firm Kimble Trading Ltd, filed in December, state: “The outbreak of Covid-19 and subsequent restrictions imposed have led to a number of events in 2020 being cancelled.

“The company has taken advantage of all available government aid in order to support the business and its employees through the crisis.”

According to the accounts, the company has only one member of staff — believed to be Tindall himself.

It also appears on a government list of firms using the furlough scheme, which pays 80 per cent of a worker’s salary.

Tory MP Nigel Mills said: “It’s a bit rich for Mike Tindall to be taking money from the public purse.”

Tindall’s business accounts are published every year. Forensic accountant Steve Hale, of Perrys, examined them for The Sun.

He said: “Under normal circumstances, Mike Tindall appears to make most of his money through share dividends and interest-free loans from his company. Over the years he has ‘borrowed’ nearly £330,000, and every year he adds to this ‘debt’.

“It’s a way of taking money out of the business while paying less tax in the short term.

“He will also pay himself a small salary — small enough that he won’t have to pay National Insurance on it, probably around £730 a month.

Blimey, how's he earned that much over the years?
Not sure why a Tory MP should be complaining, he might want to check on what some of his wealthy colleagues have been doing to support their own businesses during the pandemic.............and of course what they are all still doing on expenses which come from the public purse.
The Tindall's receive zero from the Civil List

[tc27]

Jeez - that a lot of cash for flogging RWC 2003 anecdotes.

[Paddington Bear]

When I first read this I assumed it was a hack job on him furloughing some staff, but being on it himself is pretty shameless.

[Hal Jordan]

Given the (unsurprising) revelations coming out concerning his wife's granny interfering to hide the extent of her wealth from the prying eyes of we filthy peasants (as well as sticking her oar in elsewhere), he's just joining in the Ruritanian bullshit of our beloved Royal Family.

[Torquemada 1420]

Jeez - that a lot of cash for flogging RWC 2003 anecdotes.

Was about to say it was hard to imagine anyone paying him enough for anything to get him above the tax threshold.

Oh. And I see he's another EBT scammer.

[eldanielfire]

Given the (unsurprising) revelations coming out concerning his wife's granny interfering to hide the extent of her wealth from the prying eyes of we filthy peasants (as well as sticking her oar in elsewhere), he's just joining in the Ruritanian bullshit of our beloved Royal Family.

From analysis I've read of the Guardian story, it's not a revelation, it was in fact reported at the time in the 1970s. The reason given why it was raised was actually about her investments could distort the market. The Guardian omitted all this as they framed the story as new. We've no real proof she actually sticks her oar in elsewhere either. It's rather like when the Guardian spent 15 years claiming Charles letters should be public because he's clearly using his position to influence parliament. Then when published they were all rather mundane and shown no indication of real influence over parliament or abuse of power or position.

Also since when has the public not known she was extremely rich? Richer than the Queen has been a phrase to demonstrate massive wealth for decades.

[Openside]

ROYAL husband Mike Tindall has been claiming furlough cash for his business even though he is reportedly worth more than £15million.

The ex-England rugby star, 42 — married to the Queen’s grand-daughter Zara — sought government aid for the firm which manages his speaking engagements after they dried up.

Last year the England World Cup winner was named the globe’s fourth-richest rugby player — worth an estimated £15.7million — by Ruck magazine.

Accounts for his firm Kimble Trading Ltd, filed in December, state: “The outbreak of Covid-19 and subsequent restrictions imposed have led to a number of events in 2020 being cancelled.

“The company has taken advantage of all available government aid in order to support the business and its employees through the crisis.”

According to the accounts, the company has only one member of staff — believed to be Tindall himself.

It also appears on a government list of firms using the furlough scheme, which pays 80 per cent of a worker’s salary.

Tory MP Nigel Mills said: “It’s a bit rich for Mike Tindall to be taking money from the public purse.”

Tindall’s business accounts are published every year. Forensic accountant Steve Hale, of Perrys, examined them for The Sun.

He said: “Under normal circumstances, Mike Tindall appears to make most of his money through share dividends and interest-free loans from his company. Over the years he has ‘borrowed’ nearly £330,000, and every year he adds to this ‘debt’.

“It’s a way of taking money out of the business while paying less tax in the short term.

“He will also pay himself a small salary — small enough that he won’t have to pay National Insurance on it, probably around £730 a month.

Unless Tindall is not a director of his company he would not be entitled to furlough himself.

Borrowing money from your company is a short term measure as in the Company accounts if your directors loan account is in Debit you will be taxed on the loan amount.

[Ymx]

He will have just nodded to his accountants recommendations

[Openside]

He will have just nodded to his accountants recommendations

Indeed, and minimising ones exposure to tax is just about top of everyones wish list except for virtue signalling numpties.

[Bimbowomxn]

Unless Tindall is not a director of his company he would not be entitled to furlough himself.

Yes he can be a director and receive furlough.

[SaintK]

Unless Tindall is not a director of his company he would not be entitled to furlough himself.

Yes he can be a director and receive furlough.

I can't see th issue with what he's done. He certainly won'tr be ther only wealthy individual to have done so

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Fucking dole bludgers though, right?

[Openside]

Unless Tindall is not a director of his company he would not be entitled to furlough himself.

Yes he can be a director and receive furlough.

Has it changed from the first furlough?

[stemoc]

4th richest Rugby player is wroth £15million..on the other hand, 500th richest soccer player is worth £15m :(

[Ymx]

Unless Tindall is not a director of his company he would not be entitled to furlough himself.

Yes he can be a director and receive furlough.

I can't see th issue with what he's done. He certainly won'tr be ther only wealthy individual to have done so

Plus it’s a limited company business, which can’t operate, has its own cash flow and bank accounts, irrespective of who the share holders are.

[duke]

Unless Tindall is not a director of his company he would not be entitled to furlough himself.

Yes he can be a director and receive furlough.

Has it changed from the first furlough?

Directors were able to have furlough claimed on their behalf from the start. The interesting part for me is that the article says correctly that the company can claim 80% of his salary and then goes on to say that he will be drawing a small salary of about £730 per month but doesn't link the two together. 80% of £730 is just under £600 per month, not exactly stripping the Exchequer bare compared to some of the stories doing the rounds of companies furloughing workers then getting them to carry on with their jobs.

[Torquemada 1420]

Borrowing money from your company is a short term measure as in the Company accounts if your directors loan account is in Debit you will be taxed on the loan amount.

That is not what is happening here. In effect
- the loans are made for life (they are actually for a term so long that the borrower will be dead or the company folded before demand for repayment arises)
- the tax is at HMRC's loan interest rate x the size of the loan. That's a sh*t load less than paying the Income Tax, employer and employee NI on the same sum as salary or bonus (or dividend which incurs no NI)

Many of these were nailed in 2019 when HMRC dictated that the loans were repaid or treated as income = pay the tax and NI but plenty of dodgers still out there. HMRC wrote of £ gazillions owed from the n earlier versions of such schemes.

[Torquemada 1420]

Yes he can be a director and receive furlough.

Has it changed from the first furlough?

Directors were able to have furlough claimed on their behalf from the start. The interesting part for me is that the article says correctly that the company can claim 80% of his salary and then goes on to say that he will be drawing a small salary of about £730 per month but doesn't link the two together. 80% of £730 is just under £600 per month, not exactly stripping the Exchequer bare compared to some of the stories doing the rounds of companies furloughing workers then getting them to carry on with their jobs.

There are some deeper nuances here. Not all directors are employees of their own companies and some who think they are have no formal contract of employment (although HMRC doesn't care here because these ones are paying tax and NI).

[Dan54]

He will have just nodded to his accountants recommendations

Yep as most do. Although I was on a pittance in OZ with my little Pty Ltd company, when my accountant said you get this or that from Gov't I just went with her. What most of us pay accountants for.

[Ymx]

Has it changed from the first furlough?

Directors were able to have furlough claimed on their behalf from the start. The interesting part for me is that the article says correctly that the company can claim 80% of his salary and then goes on to say that he will be drawing a small salary of about £730 per month but doesn't link the two together. 80% of £730 is just under £600 per month, not exactly stripping the Exchequer bare compared to some of the stories doing the rounds of companies furloughing workers then getting them to carry on with their jobs.

There are some deeper nuances here. Not all directors are employees of their own companies and some who think they are have no formal contract of employment (although HMRC doesn't care here because these ones are paying tax and NI).

Not aware of the loan thing. That’s naughty.

But say it’s 2.5%, which I think it is. That’s per year. So eventually it will match income tax no?
Or is it just planned that the company closes down with the debt unpaid.

[Torquemada 1420]

Not aware of the loan thing. That’s naughty.

But say it’s 2.5%, which I think it is. That’s per year. So eventually it will match income tax no?
Or is it just planned that the company closes down with the debt unpaid.

For simplicity

1) £100 k salary would result in approx £40k in deductions (Income Tax and both employer and employee NI). I've simplified because all these rates and bands change as does the personal allowance.

2) Take it as a loan and HMRC applied the official rate of interest to the loan (assuming the employing company isn't charging a commercial rate greater....... which it won't) of say 5%. 5% x £100k = £5k. Tax and NI on £5k = worst case £2k

3) Next year do the same and use £2k of your £100k to pay the previous year's requirement.

And you kick the balls down the line...

[duke]

The company should also deposit the equivalent of income tax @32.5% with HMRC for the duration of the loan which is only recoverable after the loan is repaid.

[Ymx]

My point is that it is not just 1 year you pay the 5%, it is perpetual.

You’ll pay 5% on the year 1 loan first year.

But in year 2 you’ll also need to pay £5k on it, as well even before another loan trench is considered.

After 8 years you’ll have paid 40%. After 20 years the whole 100%, but still owe the money.

So it doesn’t work out, unless and which was my question Tindall never repays anything not even interest, and let’s the debt accrue. And the company keeps issuing loans and paying £2k to the HMRC on the paper interest it accrues.

[Tichtheid]

My daughter's friend works two jobs in a care home, one as a part time carer and one in the kitchen. She also volunteers for St John's Ambulance.

She wasn't eligible for furlough because of her hours, so her flatmate had to cover the rent. She works in a nursery fulltime, so qualified for a furlough payment.

Still, it's nice to know the someone worth fifteen mill can claim some dosh to tide them over.

[sockwithaticket]

My daughter's friend works two jobs in a care home, one as a part time carer and one in the kitchen. She also volunteers for St John's Ambulance.

She wasn't eligible for furlough because of her hours, so her flatmate had to cover the rent. She works in a nursery fulltime, so qualified for a furlough payment.

Still, it's nice to know the someone worth fifteen mill can claim some dosh to tide them over.

Sounds like she needs to grab those bootstraps nice and tight. She's clearly not working as hard as a rich person /s

That's a pretty profound example of how fucked societal valuations of labour contributions have become.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

He will have just nodded to his accountants recommendations

Yep as most do. Although I was on a pittance in OZ with my little Pty Ltd company, when my accountant said you get this or that from Gov't I just went with her. What most of us pay accountants for.

Fucking hell that's quite the bonus to be fucking your accountant.

[Torquemada 1420]

My point is that it is not just 1 year you pay the 5%, it is perpetual.

You’ll pay 5% on the year 1 loan first year.

But in year 2 you’ll also need to pay £5k on it, as well even before another loan trench is considered.

After 8 years you’ll have paid 40%. After 20 years the whole 100%, but still owe the money.

So it doesn’t work out, unless and which was my question Tindall never repays anything not even interest, and let’s the debt accrue. And the company keeps issuing loans and paying £2k to the HMRC on the paper interest it accrues.

In the absence of other income, an Income Tax allowance of £12k means no tax is due (theoretically) until the loans become sufficiently cumulative. Wind the company up --> write off the debt --> start again.

[Ymx]

Surely that tax evasion under the more recent definitions?

Disguised remuneration??

[Ymx]

https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... muneration

[duke]

My point is that it is not just 1 year you pay the 5%, it is perpetual.

You’ll pay 5% on the year 1 loan first year.

But in year 2 you’ll also need to pay £5k on it, as well even before another loan trench is considered.

After 8 years you’ll have paid 40%. After 20 years the whole 100%, but still owe the money.

So it doesn’t work out, unless and which was my question Tindall never repays anything not even interest, and let’s the debt accrue. And the company keeps issuing loans and paying £2k to the HMRC on the paper interest it accrues.

In the absence of other income, an Income Tax allowance of £12k means no tax is due (theoretically) until the loans become sufficiently cumulative. Wind the company up --> write off the debt --> start again.

Company will have suffered tax at 32.5% on the overdrawn loan - how do you get that back if you liquidate the company?

[Torquemada 1420]

Surely that tax evasion under the more recent definitions?

Disguised remuneration??

HMRC has always argued most of these types of schemes were evasion and have brought in a raft of laws to try and combat it
- DOTAS
- "disguised remuneration"
- the extremely dodgy APNs

but it doesn't stop a raft of new ones popping up each year. It's like whack-a-mole. If you have £1m in earnings, you might think it worthwhile taking a punt on 10 schemes (£100k each) on the basis that
- one might succeed
- HMRC might miss one
- HMRC might settle for a reduced payment (happens a lot) rather than go into a lengthy court battle....... because it's a new scheme and so no precedent exists

Thing is once HMRC retired all the smart people they had in Nottingham, they were left with thickies versus smart and highly paid legal firms and so they don't like court cases.

[Dan54]

He will have just nodded to his accountants recommendations

Yep as most do. Although I was on a pittance in OZ with my little Pty Ltd company, when my accountant said you get this or that from Gov't I just went with her. What most of us pay accountants for.

Fucking hell that's quite the bonus to be fucking your accountant.

Mate she got me quite a bit I had no idea I could get. As long as I got a lot more than she cost me I happy. Or was I retired as of 4 months ago.