So, coronavirus...

[Sandstorm]

Suggestion was End of June for Scotland

Stay with them? 90 mins in the pub beer garden would be enough for me.

End of April then

Ace

[Lobby]

It seems that not every country has gone mad.

Poland will carry on using #AstraZeneca accused others of giving in to “disinformation”

PM’s chief of staff:

“Most countries that have temporarily suspended (AstraZeneca) vaccinations have given in to panic caused by media-fuelled information about alleged complications”

And

Canada National Advisory Committee on Immunization NOT suspending use of the #AstraZeneca vaccine after reports of serious blood clots following vaccination

Health Canada official said clots look to be less common, not more common, among people who have been vaccinated

[Rinkals]

I hope the EU keep delaying AZ rollout. Allow the UK time to vaccinate all our adults before Europeans get their head out of their arses.

I saw a figure (which I can't find: sorry), which suggested that, at the rate South Africans are currently getting the jab, it will be another twenty years before 60% of the population is inoculated.

So, I don't think you have to worry on that score: we should have bred enough resistant variants in that time to keep your hospitals busy in perpetuity.

[Sandstorm]

I hope the EU keep delaying AZ rollout. Allow the UK time to vaccinate all our adults before Europeans get their head out of their arses.

I saw a figure (which I can't find: sorry), which suggested that, at the rate South Africans are currently getting the jab, it will be another twenty years before 60% of the population is inoculated.

So, I don't think you have to worry on that score: we should have bred enough resistant variants in that time to keep your hospitals busy in perpetuity.

Don’t be silly. Every country starts slowly and then ramps up the rollout.

[Saint]

It seems that not every country has gone mad.

Poland will carry on using #AstraZeneca accused others of giving in to “disinformation”

PM’s chief of staff:

“Most countries that have temporarily suspended (AstraZeneca) vaccinations have given in to panic caused by media-fuelled information about alleged complications”

And

Canada National Advisory Committee on Immunization NOT suspending use of the #AstraZeneca vaccine after reports of serious blood clots following vaccination

Health Canada official said clots look to be less common, not more common, among people who have been vaccinated

Good for them. From a personally selfish perspective I intend to be in BC by mid Jan 22 so I hope they keep cracking on.

Also was reading an interesting article today about a Canadian developed vaccine candidate about to enter Phase III - using "virus-like" particles that are grown in plants. Really interesting stuff

[Sandstorm]

It seems that not every country has gone mad.

Poland will carry on using #AstraZeneca accused others of giving in to “disinformation”

PM’s chief of staff:

“Most countries that have temporarily suspended (AstraZeneca) vaccinations have given in to panic caused by media-fuelled information about alleged complications”

And

Canada National Advisory Committee on Immunization NOT suspending use of the #AstraZeneca vaccine after reports of serious blood clots following vaccination

Health Canada official said clots look to be less common, not more common, among people who have been vaccinated

Good for them. From a personally selfish perspective I intend to be in BC by mid Jan 22 so I hope they keep cracking on.

Also was reading an interesting article today about a Canadian developed vaccine candidate about to enter Phase III - using "virus-like" particles that are grown in plants. Really interesting stuff

Ooohhh, the vegan vaccine. Should prove really popular.

[Saint]

It seems that not every country has gone mad.

Poland will carry on using #AstraZeneca accused others of giving in to “disinformation”

PM’s chief of staff:

“Most countries that have temporarily suspended (AstraZeneca) vaccinations have given in to panic caused by media-fuelled information about alleged complications”

And

Canada National Advisory Committee on Immunization NOT suspending use of the #AstraZeneca vaccine after reports of serious blood clots following vaccination

Health Canada official said clots look to be less common, not more common, among people who have been vaccinated

Good for them. From a personally selfish perspective I intend to be in BC by mid Jan 22 so I hope they keep cracking on.

Also was reading an interesting article today about a Canadian developed vaccine candidate about to enter Phase III - using "virus-like" particles that are grown in plants. Really interesting stuff

Ooohhh, the vegan vaccine. Should prove really popular.

Actually hadn't thought of it like that. Was more impressed by the efficacy and potential production rates

[laurent]

Well hopefuly it's only 3 days lost with EMA telling the idiots to fuck off tomorrow.

and in better news a Variant from Brittany not detected by PCR test ...

[dpedin]

We really need to drive case numbers and community transmission to as low a level as possible before we get carried away with easing lock downs too far too quickly otherwise we will see another wave. This can be done relatively quickly with rate of vaccination programme etc but the last thing we need is another 'Eat out to help out' scheme or the likes to help create another wave.

Did eat out to help out cause a second wave? Thought it was at least contested.

Are you still an advocate of '(not actually) zero' Covid?

Interestingly it looks like Devi Shridar has being side-lined - Scotland on broadly the same unlocking trajectory as the rest of the UK. Looks like Professor Woolhouse has won the argument of the special advisors. Will prof Shridar be on the news channels denouncing the Scottish Government?

I thought the case around the Eat out to Help out was pretty well accepted now?

I still think pursuing an elimination strategy, that is getting community transmission to as low as possible, (I presume your use of the term 'zero covid' refers to an eradication strategy, which has never been achieved for any virus apart from smallpox) particularly now we have a very effective vaccine is the best option. The UK record of one of the highest death rates per million compared with similar countries would suggest our previous strategy wasn't the best one? Treating it like measles which we can vaccinate against rather than the flu, for which current vaccines are far less effective, would seem a far more sensible option. Achieving herd immunity through high levels of vaccination and then keeping community transmission as low as possible with an effective Test, Track and Trace system and better control over borders is now achievable. The emerging evidence that the vaccine also prevents transmission in the majority of cases strengthens this option.

Not sure what your fixation on Devi Shridar is all about?

[Hong Kong]

I’m getting the BioNTech vaccination: first on 31 March, 2nd on 21 April

[Enzedder]

I’m getting the BioNTech vaccination: first on 31 March, 2nd on 21 April

Can I have your porn collection and bagpipes?

[Slick]

Is there any indication when we might be able to stay with family?

Looking at the unlock, it looks like possibly Phase III (May 17th), but that will need more detail closer to the time

Thanks, and Biffer. Getting a bit of pressure from my mum, who lives in England, to head down on the 26th April when we can move again. She will be fully vaccinated and says we can form a bubble

[Saint]

Is there any indication when we might be able to stay with family?

Looking at the unlock, it looks like possibly Phase III (May 17th), but that will need more detail closer to the time

Thanks, and Biffer. Getting a bit of pressure from my mum, who lives in England, to head down on the 26th April when we can move again. She will be fully vaccinated and says we can form a bubble

Bubble rules are different and provided you qualify you've been able to stay overnight through the whole lockdown

[TB63]

I’m getting the BioNTech vaccination: first on 31 March, 2nd on 21 April

Can I have your porn collection?

You've not got enough time left on this earth to go through them all..

[Slick]

Looking at the unlock, it looks like possibly Phase III (May 17th), but that will need more detail closer to the time

Thanks, and Biffer. Getting a bit of pressure from my mum, who lives in England, to head down on the 26th April when we can move again. She will be fully vaccinated and says we can form a bubble

Bubble rules are different and provided you qualify you've been able to stay overnight through the whole lockdown

Yes, but with the travel restrictions it made it difficult to justify. My mum is currently in a bubble with my sister who lives locally but is intending to break that bubble before we go down and form it with us. All within rules as I read them, as long is there is sufficient time between bubbles. To be honest it's really difficult to say no now that she will be fully vaccinated even though we want to stick to the rules - I know it's not 100% protection.

[Saint]

Thanks, and Biffer. Getting a bit of pressure from my mum, who lives in England, to head down on the 26th April when we can move again. She will be fully vaccinated and says we can form a bubble

Bubble rules are different and provided you qualify you've been able to stay overnight through the whole lockdown

Yes, but with the travel restrictions it made it difficult to justify. My mum is currently in a bubble with my sister who lives locally but is intending to break that bubble before we go down and form it with us. All within rules as I read them, as long is there is sufficient time between bubbles. To be honest it's really difficult to say no now that she will be fully vaccinated even though we want to stick to the rules - I know it's not 100% protection.

Yeah, well in that case you're going to be legal. You need 2 weeks between one bubble ending and another starting, so as soon as you're allowed to cross the border then it's allowed

[Line6 HXFX]

Had the vaccine yesterday.

Woke with back pain, neck pain, jaw pain, finger aches and a high temperature.

But hey, had the vaccine, super happy.

[sturginho]

Had the vaccine yesterday.

Woke with back pain, neck pain, jaw pain, finger aches and a high temperature.

But hey, had the vaccine, super happy.

Which one did you have?

[Slick]

Had the vaccine yesterday.

Woke with back pain, neck pain, jaw pain, finger aches and a high temperature.

But hey, had the vaccine, super happy.

You've always been woke

[Saint]

NHS now accepting requests for all over 50s. Login and pick your dates + location for 1st and 2nd jab today. No need to wait for your letter.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ccination/

My wife booked her first jab for next Friday, then mid June.

They take a while, but finally got round to updating the front page

[Rinkals]

I hope the EU keep delaying AZ rollout. Allow the UK time to vaccinate all our adults before Europeans get their head out of their arses.

I saw a figure (which I can't find: sorry), which suggested that, at the rate South Africans are currently getting the jab, it will be another twenty years before 60% of the population is inoculated.

So, I don't think you have to worry on that score: we should have bred enough resistant variants in that time to keep your hospitals busy in perpetuity.

Don’t be silly. Every country starts slowly and then ramps up the rollout.

First of all, I was being facetious. As I took you to be.

And secondly, I believe we are having difficulty securing supply of the vaccination.

Underlying my facetious remark was a serious point, namely that Nations that secure their own populations at the expense of poorer nations risk reinfection through the virus being allowed to thrive outside of their orbit.

[Saint]

I saw a figure (which I can't find: sorry), which suggested that, at the rate South Africans are currently getting the jab, it will be another twenty years before 60% of the population is inoculated.

So, I don't think you have to worry on that score: we should have bred enough resistant variants in that time to keep your hospitals busy in perpetuity.

Don’t be silly. Every country starts slowly and then ramps up the rollout.

First of all, I was being facetious. As I took you to be.

And secondly, I believe we are having difficulty securing supply of the vaccination.

Underlying my facetious remark was a serious point, namely that Nations that secure their own populations at the expense of poorer nations risk reinfection through the virus being allowed to thrive outside of their orbit.

As mor vaccines are approved and more production comes on line, and more programmes are completed, more becomes available for all

[Raggs]

I saw a figure (which I can't find: sorry), which suggested that, at the rate South Africans are currently getting the jab, it will be another twenty years before 60% of the population is inoculated.

So, I don't think you have to worry on that score: we should have bred enough resistant variants in that time to keep your hospitals busy in perpetuity.

Don’t be silly. Every country starts slowly and then ramps up the rollout.

First of all, I was being facetious. As I took you to be.

And secondly, I believe we are having difficulty securing supply of the vaccination.

Underlying my facetious remark was a serious point, namely that Nations that secure their own populations at the expense of poorer nations risk reinfection through the virus being allowed to thrive outside of their orbit.

That's only a serious complaint once nations start to sit on stockpiles of vaccine, whilst others go without. As of now, no country has finished it's own vaccine program, and they mostly seem to be stabbing about as fast as they're getting (or close enough that the leftover is relative pocket change on a global scale). And it is in a country's benefit to vaccinate it's own population before others. A single jab can only vaccinate one person, whether it's in a rich or poor country.

[Sandstorm]

Had the vaccine yesterday.

Woke with back pain, neck pain, jaw pain, finger aches and a high temperature.

But hey, had the vaccine, super happy.

Which one did you have?

Downtrodden one

[tabascoboy]

[Rinkals]

Don’t be silly. Every country starts slowly and then ramps up the rollout.

First of all, I was being facetious. As I took you to be.

And secondly, I believe we are having difficulty securing supply of the vaccination.

Underlying my facetious remark was a serious point, namely that Nations that secure their own populations at the expense of poorer nations risk reinfection through the virus being allowed to thrive outside of their orbit.

As mor vaccines are approved and more production comes on line, and more programmes are completed, more becomes available for all

There is currently a discussion on whether there might be a moratorium on IP restrictions on these vaccines to allow their production in India. South Africa, too, has a competent medical industry capable of producing medicines and vaccines, despite disparaging remarks made earlier on this thread.

However, without getting too Q-Anon, it is obviously in the drug companies' interests to prevent that from happening. Not only is there a strong imperative to defend their IP, but it obviously hurts the bottom line if treatment works too well. Sorry to sound a little conspiratorial, but these companies do not exist as entirely philanthropic entities.

That is probably neither here nor there, but the end result is probably going to be against opening up the IP.

But, to make my point again, if the virus is allowed to thrive in poorer countries, then it will probably resurface in wealthier nations in divers variants.

[Saint]

First of all, I was being facetious. As I took you to be.

And secondly, I believe we are having difficulty securing supply of the vaccination.

Underlying my facetious remark was a serious point, namely that Nations that secure their own populations at the expense of poorer nations risk reinfection through the virus being allowed to thrive outside of their orbit.

As mor vaccines are approved and more production comes on line, and more programmes are completed, more becomes available for all

There is currently a discussion on whether there might be a moratorium on IP restrictions on these vaccines to allow their production in India. South Africa, too, has a competent medical industry capable of producing medicines and vaccines, despite disparaging remarks made earlier on this thread.

However, without getting too Q-Anon, it is obviously in the drug companies' interests to prevent that from happening. Not only is there a strong imperative to defend their IP, but it obviously hurts the bottom line if treatment works too well. Sorry to sound a little conspiratorial, but these companies do not exist as entirely philanthropic entities.

That is probably neither here nor there, but the end result is probably going to be against opening up the IP.

But, to make my point again, if the virus is allowed to thrive in poorer countries, then it will probably resurface in wealthier nations in divers variants.

It's far from clear how much capacity there actually is, particularly if we intend to keep up manufacturing cpacity for all those other pesky viruses like Smallpox. Additionally, few few of these vaccines are actually manufactured in a single facility - the supply chains are complex with many limiting factors. For instance even if you could spin up a final production facility for Pfizer in SA, there's a core component to it that is currently only manufactured in 2 factories in the world, and I've seen estimates that it could take between 6 and 18 months to bring any other facility on line.

As much as anything, this is why it's important to have many vaccines of different types so as to best utilise what manufacturing capacity we have

[JM2K6]

The defence force out on TV today:



Ah yes, no-one could possibly have known the virus was deadly or that Boris was being irresponsible, it is only with the benefit of hindsight and not, you know, HAVING LOOKED AT CHINA AND ITALY AND HAVING A FUCKING HEAD START ON EVERYONE ELSE AND BLINDLY REFUSING TO PAY ATTENTION

[Calculon]

First of all, I was being facetious. As I took you to be.

And secondly, I believe we are having difficulty securing supply of the vaccination.

Underlying my facetious remark was a serious point, namely that Nations that secure their own populations at the expense of poorer nations risk reinfection through the virus being allowed to thrive outside of their orbit.

As mor vaccines are approved and more production comes on line, and more programmes are completed, more becomes available for all

There is currently a discussion on whether there might be a moratorium on IP restrictions on these vaccines to allow their production in India. South Africa, too, has a competent medical industry capable of producing medicines and vaccines, despite disparaging remarks made earlier on this thread.

However, without getting too Q-Anon, it is obviously in the drug companies' interests to prevent that from happening. Not only is there a strong imperative to defend their IP, but it obviously hurts the bottom line if treatment works too well. Sorry to sound a little conspiratorial, but these companies do not exist as entirely philanthropic entities.

That is probably neither here nor there, but the end result is probably going to be against opening up the IP.

But, to make my point again, if the virus is allowed to thrive in poorer countries, then it will probably resurface in wealthier nations in divers variants.

All valid points but South Africa would have a stronger argument if they didn't turn away 1.5 million AZ vaccine despite WHO recommendations not to do so. I believe this is the first time the SA government has gone against WHO advice and as I've stated previously, I think it is a terrible case of CYA, principly by the scientists in the Ministerial Advisory Committee on COVID-19, and secondly by the politicians that don't have the balls to overrule their scientific advisors.
- all because of the remote chance that the AZ will prove ineffective against severe disease caused by covsars 2- SA varient, and thus people will have to be vaccinated twice. The SA government was also late in starting to procure vaccines even as it became clear that those vaccines will be effective.

[Rinkals]

^^^

Nobody claimed that the SA Government was logical

[Rinkals]

It's far from clear how much capacity there actually is, particularly if we intend to keep up manufacturing cpacity for all those other pesky viruses like Smallpox. Additionally, few few of these vaccines are actually manufactured in a single facility - the supply chains are complex with many limiting factors. For instance even if you could spin up a final production facility for Pfizer in SA, there's a core component to it that is currently only manufactured in 2 factories in the world, and I've seen estimates that it could take between 6 and 18 months to bring any other facility on line.

As much as anything, this is why it's important to have many vaccines of different types so as to best utilise what manufacturing capacity we have

In which case, why the reticence in offering a limited moratorium on the IP involved?

[Saint]

It's far from clear how much capacity there actually is, particularly if we intend to keep up manufacturing cpacity for all those other pesky viruses like Smallpox. Additionally, few few of these vaccines are actually manufactured in a single facility - the supply chains are complex with many limiting factors. For instance even if you could spin up a final production facility for Pfizer in SA, there's a core component to it that is currently only manufactured in 2 factories in the world, and I've seen estimates that it could take between 6 and 18 months to bring any other facility on line.

As much as anything, this is why it's important to have many vaccines of different types so as to best utilise what manufacturing capacity we have

In which case, why the reticence in offering a limited moratorium on the IP involved?

Because while the USE of the IP can be limited for this specific vaccine, the actual knowledge shared won't be forgotten - which in turn could have serious commercial impact somewhere down the road on a different project. Whilst for a more traditional vaccine that's probably not an issue as everyone more or less knows how to develop and produce them, for the newer platforms there's a huge amount of investment in the general technology and development that the various companies need to protect

[Rinkals]

In other words, it's more important to make profits than to save lives.

I understand perfectly.

[Saint]

In other words, it's more important to make profits than to save lives.

I understand perfectly.

I'm of two minds to this, but actually it's the long term ability of Pharma to make profits that enables their long term ability to develop new vaccines and technologies.

[Lobby]

I see Ursula is back on the warpath

[Raggs]

We're going to stop others having vaccines whilst simultaneously not using all the vaccines we have! Well done them...

[Saint]

Great. Time for a bit more posturing. It can;t really go anywhere as a core Pfizer component is manufactured in the UK, and no-one really wants this to get that ugly

I'm curious as to what Ursula means about recieving exports from the USA though, when the USA has a blanket ban on any exports of any Covid vaccine, whether it's certified for use in the USA or not (see 70million odd doses of AZ sitting in warehouses)

[Lobby]

Great. Time for a bit more posturing. It can;t really go anywhere as a core Pfizer component is manufactured in the UK, and no-one really wants this to get that ugly

I'm curious as to what Ursula means about recieving exports from the USA though, when the USA has a blanket ban on any exports of any Covid vaccine, whether it's certified for use in the USA or not (see 70million odd doses of AZ sitting in warehouses)

I think she means that there is reciprocity with the US because no EU manufactured vaccines have gone to the US; hence the US ban doesn’t affect the EU (despite there being a surfeit of unused AZ vaccines in the US).

As the UK has received 9m Pfizer vaccines from EU plants, in line with our contracts, she thinks we should reciprocate and provide the EU with AZ vaccines, despite the lack of any contractual basis for us doing so.

[tc27]

The Commissions decision to prioritise price over speed of delivery was bad enough but its the various cack handed attempts to try and placate amd distract from the consequences that are far worse.

[tc27]

PS 530k vaccinations given yesterday.