Eddie Jones: 'We need to reset the team. It's a transition period'

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ion-period

What the actual ***k? Surely this blows his credibility entirely? This is the man of micro-changes to personnel and he is talking "transition"?!!

7 months to Eng's next game? Now interesting to see if wholesale changes do occur.

[Slick]

He’s certainly got chutzpah.

It will be the usual couple of easy escapegoats but the same old senior players

[laurent]

Any sumlmary (can't access the article)

[Kawazaki]

Jones is a sociopath.

He's totally unsuited to being a head coach.

He's Donald Trump with less charm and less self-awareness.

He doesn't just damage the England national team, he undermines everything that serves English rugby.

He's a malignant tumor growing in the heart of English rugby.

The cost to get rid of this disease immediately will be nothing compared to the cost if he remains for another 30+ months in charge.

[Slick]

I’m sensing you’re not a fan?

[OomStruisbaai]

England has gone backwards since 2019 WC final.

Eddie is right, they need to chop old wood.

[Torquemada 1420]

Any sumlmary (can't access the article)

Spoiler

Show

Eddie Jones will not be considering his position as head coach after England suffered their third defeat of the Six Nations to finish one off the bottom of the table.

“The issue is not me getting through to the players,” said Jones, who took charge of England after the 2015 World Cup. “If it was, I would not be coaching the team. There were a number of positive things to take from the game but we need to assess where we are going.
Sexton masterminds dominant win for Ireland against lacklustre England
Read more

“The main thing we are missing is consistency of performance, which sometimes happens. We showed a high level against France the week before and we have honest players who work hard. We started well but then dropped our intensity and allowed them to get to us. I don’t know why. There was a lot of space against France but this was always going to be a more attritional game.”

[Paddington Bear]

At some point it’ll come out what happened at the world cup final. We haven’t been the same level since.

What’s frustrating is that this is a good side with potential, not a repeat of the Corry led lot.

There’s a lot of time until we play again and I suspect the England boys will have a quiet summer.

[Lemoentjie]

Hasn't he been saying this since 2016, excluding the RWC?

Complete fraudster!

[JM2K6]

England has gone backwards since 2019 WC final.

Eddie is right, they need to chop old wood.

Yeah well Eddie said the same after the world cup then failed to do it. He had every opportunity to do so: we had an autumn series during Covid that was perfect for it (look at France) and instead he played his favourites and made them play eye bleeding, negative rugby. He slated the media for reporting it as such, and clung to the tightest and jammiest of victories against France C.

Then he had the perfect reason to freshen up the squad this 6N with all the Saracens players not having played for months (and their form before hadn't torn up trees), but instead doubled down and picked them en masse with the occasional nod to form by selecting other players who then got virtually no game time.

We continued with the bollocks tactical approach. It continued to lose.

Then came France where almost as a fuck-you, England kept the ball in hand and guys like George Ford were allowed to show what made them so exciting to watch originally, and we beat the best side in the tournament.

Then Eddie lashed out at the media again for putting "rat poison" in the players heads for daring to point out when they were playing poorly. He also predicted it would be an attritional game against Ireland, which made every regular England watcher go "for fucks sake, he's going to get them to just kick the ball away constantly and England will lose without firing a shot in anger" which is Eddie's regular away day plan. And so it came about.

Ben Youngs should not be playing for England. He showed this many times over the last five years, even in the world cup final.

Owen Farrell is a handbrake on the team more often than not. He is a good rugby player but has a lot of negatives. He should never be playing 10, and his record for England at 10 is dire compared to Ford's, but still Eddie tries it now and then. Farrell is a decent ball playing 12 and a good defender who should be in the mix for selection, but he should never be captain and should never be undroppable.

Elliot Daly is a man who was shoehorned into the 15 shirt and it shows. Eddie did a good job picking him on the wing to begin with. He's a wing/13 and should be treated as such. He's not international class at 15.

Charlie Ewels has been picking up caps for years and no one can explain why. He's a fucking empty shirt.

Mako Vunipola at his best is a freakish ball playing forward with an incredible engine. When he's not at his best he's a liability.

Billy Vunipola used to be an exciting attacking talent. For several years now he's been just a battering ram. His form deserted him, he had a poor world cup, and we've seen bare flickers since then. Another handbrake on the team.

Henry Slade is sometimes a lovely player to watch but he misses tackles for fun and doesn't scare teams with his running. There's a future for him, but Ford/Farrell/Slade just means you have lots of passers, a ten who can run but isn't particularly quick and isn't big, two centres who don't scare defences, and a lack of personal try scoring.

That's too many players in the spine of the team who are treated like they are Dan fucking Carter when all too often they're Shane Geraghty.

[Biffer]

Jones is a sociopath.

He's totally unsuited to being a head coach.

He's Donald Trump with less charm and less self-awareness.

He doesn't just damage the England national team, he undermines everything that serves English rugby.

He's a malignant tumor growing in the heart of English rugby.

The cost to get rid of this disease immediately will be nothing compared to the cost if he remains for another 30+ months in charge.

Which is why we're growing to like him in the Celtic Nations.

[Lemoentjie]

England has gone backwards since 2019 WC final.

Eddie is right, they need to chop old wood.

Yeah well Eddie said the same after the world cup then failed to do it. He had every opportunity to do so: we had an autumn series during Covid that was perfect for it (look at France) and instead he played his favourites and made them play eye bleeding, negative rugby. He slated the media for reporting it as such, and clung to the tightest and jammiest of victories against France C.

Then he had the perfect reason to freshen up the squad this 6N with all the Saracens players not having played for months (and their form before hadn't torn up trees), but instead doubled down and picked them en masse with the occasional nod to form by selecting other players who then got virtually no game time.

We continued with the bollocks tactical approach. It continued to lose.

Then came France where almost as a fuck-you, England kept the ball in hand and guys like George Ford were allowed to show what made them so exciting to watch originally, and we beat the best side in the tournament.

Then Eddie lashed out at the media again for putting "rat poison" in the players heads for daring to point out when they were playing poorly. He also predicted it would be an attritional game against Ireland, which made every regular England watcher go "for fucks sake, he's going to get them to just kick the ball away constantly and England will lose without firing a shot in anger" which is Eddie's regular away day plan. And so it came about.

Ben Youngs should not be playing for England. He showed this many times over the last five years, even in the world cup final.

Owen Farrell is a handbrake on the team more often than not. He is a good rugby player but has a lot of negatives. He should never be playing 10, and his record for England at 10 is dire compared to Ford's, but still Eddie tries it now and then. Farrell is a decent ball playing 12 and a good defender who should be in the mix for selection, but he should never be captain and should never be undroppable.

Elliot Daly is a man who was shoehorned into the 15 shirt and it shows. Eddie did a good job picking him on the wing to begin with. He's a wing/13 and should be treated as such. He's not international class at 15.

Charlie Ewels has been picking up caps for years and no one can explain why. He's a fucking empty shirt.

Mako Vunipola at his best is a freakish ball playing forward with an incredible engine. When he's not at his best he's a liability.

Billy Vunipola used to be an exciting attacking talent. For several years now he's been just a battering ram. His form deserted him, he had a poor world cup, and we've seen bare flickers since then. Another handbrake on the team.

Henry Slade is sometimes a lovely player to watch but he misses tackles for fun and doesn't scare teams with his running. There's a future for him, but Ford/Farrell/Slade just means you have lots of passers, a ten who can run but isn't particularly quick and isn't big, two centres who don't scare defences, and a lack of personal try scoring.

That's too many players in the spine of the team who are treated like they are Dan fucking Carter when all too often they're Shane Geraghty.

Genuine question: Would you have preferred that England lose to France?

[Paddington Bear]

Worst part is that of the players listed there, Youngs had the best tournament IMHO. Loyalty is a good quality within reason, but we’re still holding out for Billy to steamroller people like it’s 2016.

I’m an Eddie fan. For me the 4 year cycle up to the 2019 World cup was the most enjoyable time as an England fan since 03. The Grand Slam and the Aussie whitewash after the fiasco in 2015 gave English rugby it’s pride back. We’ll talk for a long time about the NZ semi. But it’s going wrong and there’s no point pretending otherwise. It was clear that Ireland and Scotland knew exactly what was coming, had good plans to stop it and executed them perfectly.

The France game is a tantalising look at what could be. We can play fast, aggressive rugby and win doing it against quality sides. We can, and should, be in position to win Grand Slams and compete for the World Cup. At the moment though if I were Japan or Argentina I’d be sizing up a scalp.

Eddie’s running out of road. The RFU won’t sack him so hopefully a longish break without England games gives him enough time to climb down and make some changes. It doesn’t need to be particularly radical for us to be in very good shape.

[JM2K6]

Genuine question: Would you have preferred that England lose to France?

No, because we played a decent style of rugby and won, whereas our cancerous style of rugby has been losing. Any other coach would take that as a sign.

I realise there's the fear that it convinced Eddie he was right to keep picking the same players but he was long convinced of that anyway. He's extraordinarily stubborn.

One of England's biggest problems is that Eddie is a massive cunt to the players and grinds them into the dirt with his training and preparation, and so anyone who isn't 100% up for that gets ditched.

[Ymx]

Just putting the whole thing there

Eddie Jones: 'We need to reset the team. It's a transition period'

-England coach threatens shake-up following defeat to Ireland

-Tactics and personnel will change in buildup to World Cup
England players look despondent following the 32-18 defeat to Ireland in Dublin.


Paul Rees
Sat 20 Mar 2021 22.47 GMT
11
Eddie Jones will not be considering his position as head coach after England suffered their third defeat of the Six Nations to finish one off the bottom of the table.

The result was virtually a reverse of the one when England last played at the Aviva Stadium and won 32-20. They were 26-6 down when the Ireland centre Bundee Aki was sent off 17 minutes from the end for a high tackle on Billy Vunipola and the home side finished with 13 men with Conor Murray in the sin-bin.

“The issue is not me getting through to the players,” said Jones, who took charge of England after the 2015 World Cup. “If it was, I would not be coaching the team. There were a number of positive things to take from the game but we need to assess where we are going.


Sexton masterminds dominant win for Ireland against lacklustre England
Read more
“The main thing we are missing is consistency of performance, which sometimes happens. We showed a high level against France the week before and we have honest players who work hard. We started well but then dropped our intensity and allowed them to get to us. I don’t know why. There was a lot of space against France but this was always going to be a more attritional game.”

England finished fifth in 2018 when they were again defending their title. It prompted Jones to shake up his squad and the following year they overwhelmed New Zealand in the World Cup semi-final.

“It is a transition period and it is natural for that to happen in terms of tactics and personnel two years before a World Cup,” said Jones. “There will be a change of personnel after the Lions tour and we need to reset the team.” Asked whether he still expected more than 20 of his players to be selected for the trip he replied: “I am not sure how many we will have. I do not control that.”

Ireland enjoyed their most significant victory since Andy Farrell, who was part of the England set-up that preceded Jones, took over as head coach after the last World Cup. “We have come in for a lot of stick but we knew we had this performance in us,” said Farrell. “We beat a very good side and we have given Warren Gatland [the Lions head coach], who was at a training session with us this week, one or two problems.”


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Farrell added he had spoken to the referee Mathieu Raynal about the red card shown to Aki, who was sent off in the last World Cup against Samoa for a similar challenge. “It is a tough one. Billy seemed to be dropping into the challenge, but the rules are the rules. Bundee is gutted because he is good friends with Billy.”

[Slick]

Wonder what the ref thought when Farrell went up to him to discuss the high shoulder tackle?

[SaintK]

At some point it’ll come out what happened at the world cup final. We haven’t been the same level since.

What’s frustrating is that this is a good side with potential, not a repeat of the Corry led lot.

There’s a lot of time until we play again and I suspect the England boys will have a quiet summer.

Nope! Tour to US and Canada in July. Not sure how many matches
Jones should use that to play the fringe players and pick a "Saxon" squad. There will be a few unavailibilities due to Lions selection

[Torquemada 1420]

At some point it’ll come out what happened at the world cup final. We haven’t been the same level since.

What’s frustrating is that this is a good side with potential, not a repeat of the Corry led lot.

There’s a lot of time until we play again and I suspect the England boys will have a quiet summer.

Nope! Tour to US and Canada in July. Not sure how many matches
Jones should use that to play the fringe players and pick a "Saxon" squad. There will be a few unavailibilities due to Lions selection

That not been scratched?

[sockwithaticket]

At some point it’ll come out what happened at the world cup final. We haven’t been the same level since.

What’s frustrating is that this is a good side with potential, not a repeat of the Corry led lot.

There’s a lot of time until we play again and I suspect the England boys will have a quiet summer.

Nope! Tour to US and Canada in July. Not sure how many matches
Jones should use that to play the fringe players and pick a "Saxon" squad. There will be a few unavailibilities due to Lions selection

Could be wrong, but I think he was alluding to many of them having played themselves out of Lions contention.

[Uncle fester]

Tempting and all that it is to insist that England keep Eddie, the players looked fairly disinterested yesterday. Eddie is a decent coach but has a finite lifespan and he's well beyond that now.

[SaintK]

At some point it’ll come out what happened at the world cup final. We haven’t been the same level since.

What’s frustrating is that this is a good side with potential, not a repeat of the Corry led lot.

There’s a lot of time until we play again and I suspect the England boys will have a quiet summer.

Nope! Tour to US and Canada in July. Not sure how many matches
Jones should use that to play the fringe players and pick a "Saxon" squad. There will be a few unavailibilities due to Lions selection

That not been scratched?

Don't think so as it's been mentioned in the press a few times
Club England supporters travel has been cancelled for obvious reasons

[SaintK]

At some point it’ll come out what happened at the world cup final. We haven’t been the same level since.

What’s frustrating is that this is a good side with potential, not a repeat of the Corry led lot.

There’s a lot of time until we play again and I suspect the England boys will have a quiet summer.

Nope! Tour to US and Canada in July. Not sure how many matches
Jones should use that to play the fringe players and pick a "Saxon" squad. There will be a few unavailibilities due to Lions selection

Could be wrong, but I think he was alluding to many of them having played themselves out of Lions contention.

I would imagine some may well have played themselves out of ccontention but I reckon 5 or 6 will still be selected

[Uncle fester]

Who do you reckon will make it?

[JM2K6]

LCD, Itoje, Watson, Underhill, Sinckler, Curry will all likely travel. Gatland may still hold a candle for Mako and Farrell, and maybe George.

[Uncle fester]

LCD, Itoje, Watson, Underhill, Sinckler, Curry will all likely travel. Gatland may still hold a candle for Mako and Farrell, and maybe George.

Underhill and Curry should be excellent lions.
Itoje should be able to get his form back in different surroundings.

Recon he might chance Billy as well?
Gatland can be as stubborn as Eddie

[Paddington Bear]

LCD, Itoje, Watson, Underhill, Sinckler, Curry will all likely travel. Gatland may still hold a candle for Mako and Farrell, and maybe George.

Underhill and Curry should be excellent lions.
Itoje should be able to get his form back in different surroundings.

Recon he might chance Billy as well?
Gatland can be as stubborn as Eddie

Faletau is so far ahead of Billy and Gats knows him better

[SaintK]

Who do you reckon will make it?

See JM's suggestions plus George, Marler may even be in with a shout even though not appearing in the 6N
Can't see any bolters

[fishfoodie]

The thing that gets me, is that Eddies MO was well known; & the Ozzie posters on PR predicted very accurately, how things would play out.

If they could; why couldn't the blazers in the RFU ?

The whole point of stooping to hire a foreign coach, was to use the time to develop an English one, to take over from Eddie; when he inevitably went rogue. The time is now up, so where's the Englishman waiting to take over ?

[OomStruisbaai]

Wales haven't replace many from 2019.

Only the coach

The difference is that they have a winning culture
and playing with confidence.

[fishfoodie]

Wales haven't replace many from 2019.

Only the coach

The difference is that they have a winning culture
and playing with confidence.

I think the key is the Welsh teams play a similar brand of rugby in the clubs, as they do Nationally. The Irish are evolving that way; but the central contracting & the limited number of teams, mean the National coach has a great deal of influence over the players, & tactics.

In England you have a larger number of teams, & your players are spread all over creation. The two best performing teams play the a very limited brand of Rugby; & quelle surprise; Eddie decided to use this as the basis for the National tactics.

[OomStruisbaai]

England still play the same brand of rugby for ages. Will be stupid to try and change it.

[Paddington Bear]

I don’t think that’s fair. The running theme of successful England sides is winning up front and winning line out ball, beyond that gameplans vary a lot

[Torquemada 1420]

In England you have a larger number of teams, & your players are spread all over creation. The two best performing teams play the a very limited brand of Rugby; & quelle surprise; Eddie decided to use this as the basis for the National tactics.

The whole advantage of a bigger league should be more players and a greater diversity of playing styles. There is no requirement to select only from the top 2 teams. France has been selecting 3 players from a side in the relegation zone.

[JM2K6]

Wales haven't replace many from 2019.

Only the coach

The difference is that they have a winning culture
and playing with confidence.

I think the key is the Welsh teams play a similar brand of rugby in the clubs, as they do Nationally. The Irish are evolving that way; but the central contracting & the limited number of teams, mean the National coach has a great deal of influence over the players, & tactics.

In England you have a larger number of teams, & your players are spread all over creation. The two best performing teams play the a very limited brand of Rugby; & quelle surprise; Eddie decided to use this as the basis for the National tactics.

The... two best performing teams?

England play nothing like Exeter, who might have a limited gameplan but want ball in hand all the time. England play nothing like Bristol, who fling it about willy-nilly.

[fishfoodie]

Wales haven't replace many from 2019.

Only the coach

The difference is that they have a winning culture
and playing with confidence.

I think the key is the Welsh teams play a similar brand of rugby in the clubs, as they do Nationally. The Irish are evolving that way; but the central contracting & the limited number of teams, mean the National coach has a great deal of influence over the players, & tactics.

In England you have a larger number of teams, & your players are spread all over creation. The two best performing teams play the a very limited brand of Rugby; & quelle surprise; Eddie decided to use this as the basis for the National tactics.

The... two best performing teams?

England play nothing like Exeter, who might have a limited gameplan but want ball in hand all the time. England play nothing like Bristol, who fling it about willy-nilly.

I was referring to Sarries, & Exeter :)

[JM2K6]

Sarries last season, if you ignored the points deduction, finished 5th. They lost their opening match in the Championship.

[Torquemada 1420]

I was referring to Sarries, & Exeter :)

[fishfoodie]

Sarries last season, if you ignored the points deduction, finished 5th. They lost their opening match in the Championship.

I judge the English teams solely by their HEC records

[Kawazaki]

If you look at Eddie Jones's CV, he's achieved his best results as a coach when he's reporting to a head coach. In short, Jones simply isn't a very good number one, in fact, he's a disaster. He's got serious personality shortcomings that simply make him a very poor option to lead and formulate management and leadership plans. No question in my mind that he likes 'yes' men in his squad and when you reconcile that with the huge playing fee that England pay, you can see why there's no shortage of players prepared to keep saying yes to stay on the gravy-train once they reach the squad. Jones's selection policy has been an absolute nonsense ever since he started and we can see now that his chickens are well and truly coming home to roost. Behind closed doors he'll panic and make knee-jerk cuts to the squad here and there but nothing will be done as part of a planned and sustained continuity plan to bring in new players and refresh the team. Change terrifies Jones. Developing new relationships, changing tactics, long-term strategising have long left the Jones skillset.

And the worse thing? I think he knows he's past it but he knows there's nobody in the RFU who have a clue how to manage him, let alone have the wherewithal to review his performance properly. He stands to 'earn' another £2m knocking this dress out for the next 30 months or so and he fully intends to collect.

[assfly]

As an outsider, I think Eddie is an amazing coach and England should stick with him.

But he's definitely become too comfortable with certain players. After the world cup was a great time to blood some young players (of which England has so many) but as a fan I've become so familiar with the same old faces.

The Youngs Ford Farrell axis has become very predictable. Deinitely time to hand the 10 jersey to someone else like Simmonds or Smith, even though I actually think Ford is a decent player.
I've never rated Jamie George that much, LCD brings a lot more to the team.
Billy Vunipola has been out of form for quite some time, probably since 2019.
Daly must be one of the worst fullbacks I've ever seen, I cannot understand why he's selected week after week. Yes, he's out of position at 15, but he really struggles with the basics.
I've nothing against Saracens, but it's just how I see certain players performing. If Eddie is told to let go of his obsession with these players and blood some new ones I think he would go into 2023 RWC with an incredibly strong team.

Having said that; players like Itoje, Curry and May are world class and it's worth watching just for them alone.