So, coronavirus...

[Ovals]

I think in the long term for the UK, the move with AZ still makes sense for all the short term wrangling and pain. At the end of the day AZ is still going to be the most widely deployed vaccine in the world, admittedly in part due to the efforts of SII.

But the work with AZ, when seen in conjunction with the investments in the VMIC in Harwell and CGT Catapult in Braintree are part of a far broader investment and development strategy for the UK, both for long term security but also inwards capital investment

Now if you could just stop exporting death machines to bloodthirsty regimes and shut down the London money laundering machine, you may start reclaiming some moral ground.

What moral high ground am I trying to claim? Pretty much everything I've mentioned there is for the benefit of the UK, either political leverage, national security, or economic investment. None of it is really altruistic

Let's go with 'enlightened self interest'.

[FalseBayFC]

I think in the long term for the UK, the move with AZ still makes sense for all the short term wrangling and pain. At the end of the day AZ is still going to be the most widely deployed vaccine in the world, admittedly in part due to the efforts of SII.

But the work with AZ, when seen in conjunction with the investments in the VMIC in Harwell and CGT Catapult in Braintree are part of a far broader investment and development strategy for the UK, both for long term security but also inwards capital investment

Now if you could just stop exporting death machines to bloodthirsty regimes and shut down the London money laundering machine, you may start reclaiming some moral ground.

What moral high ground am I trying to claim? Pretty much everything I've mentioned there is for the benefit of the UK, either political leverage, national security, or economic investment. None of it is really altruistic

I'm talking about your country and the government. Unless you're a London estate agent/banker, work for BAE Systems plc or own plantations in the West Indies or vast tracts of Uruguay cattle land.

[Biffer]

Now if you could just stop exporting death machines to bloodthirsty regimes and shut down the London money laundering machine, you may start reclaiming some moral ground.

What moral high ground am I trying to claim? Pretty much everything I've mentioned there is for the benefit of the UK, either political leverage, national security, or economic investment. None of it is really altruistic

I'm talking about your country and the government. Unless you're a London estate agent/banker, work for BAE Systems plc or own plantations in the West Indies or vast tracts of Uruguay cattle land.

Assigning national traits to individuals is a dangerous path to go down.

[tabascoboy]

Leaving aside grandstanding for a moment

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'
Close
Reece caught coronavirus during the first wave of the pandemic in March 2020, but like many twenty-somethings, he wasn't hospitalised overnight.

What he thought would be a mild illness became a protracted nightmare with his partner Alice becoming his carer.

Months after his initial infection, he was diagnosed with CFS/ME (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) by his GP and referred to a specialist. His CFS/ME consultant later confirmed his CFS/ME symptoms were a form of 'long Covid' and referred him to a long Covid clinic.

(Oh that should be a simple link, not an embed fail...)

Let's hope the age limit for general vaccination starts to move downwards soon.

[Uncle fester]

Leaving aside grandstanding for a moment

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'
Close
Reece caught coronavirus during the first wave of the pandemic in March 2020, but like many twenty-somethings, he wasn't hospitalised overnight.

What he thought would be a mild illness became a protracted nightmare with his partner Alice becoming his carer.

Months after his initial infection, he was diagnosed with CFS/ME (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) by his GP and referred to a specialist. His CFS/ME consultant later confirmed his CFS/ME symptoms were a form of 'long Covid' and referred him to a long Covid clinic.

(Oh that should be a simple link, not an embed fail...)

Let's hope the age limit for general vaccination starts to move downwards soon.

We probably need to start thinking about refocusing efforts on getting vaccinations going elsewhere in the world. If a vaccine-resistant comes out of a country where it's not under control, all the hard work will have been for nothing.

[Raggs]

Leaving aside grandstanding for a moment

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'
Close
Reece caught coronavirus during the first wave of the pandemic in March 2020, but like many twenty-somethings, he wasn't hospitalised overnight.

What he thought would be a mild illness became a protracted nightmare with his partner Alice becoming his carer.

Months after his initial infection, he was diagnosed with CFS/ME (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) by his GP and referred to a specialist. His CFS/ME consultant later confirmed his CFS/ME symptoms were a form of 'long Covid' and referred him to a long Covid clinic.

(Oh that should be a simple link, not an embed fail...)

Let's hope the age limit for general vaccination starts to move downwards soon.

We probably need to start thinking about refocusing efforts on getting vaccinations going elsewhere in the world. If a vaccine-resistant comes out of a country where it's not under control, all the hard work will have been for nothing.

Vaccinating a whole country gives it a chance of at least isolating itself. Vaccinating 10% all over the world will have no effect. Now as soon as a country is closing in on being properly vaccinated, then they should absolutely be working towards helping other countries get upto the same status, rather than simply sitting on a stockpile.

[Uncle fester]

Then you're looking at an extended lockdown on international travel.
Fine if you're on an island like us but not very practical for everybody else.

[laurent]

Leaving aside grandstanding for a moment

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'

Long Covid: 'It's like someone has piled sandbags on top of me'
Close
Reece caught coronavirus during the first wave of the pandemic in March 2020, but like many twenty-somethings, he wasn't hospitalised overnight.

What he thought would be a mild illness became a protracted nightmare with his partner Alice becoming his carer.

Months after his initial infection, he was diagnosed with CFS/ME (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) by his GP and referred to a specialist. His CFS/ME consultant later confirmed his CFS/ME symptoms were a form of 'long Covid' and referred him to a long Covid clinic.

(Oh that should be a simple link, not an embed fail...)

Let's hope the age limit for general vaccination starts to move downwards soon.

We probably need to start thinking about refocusing efforts on getting vaccinations going elsewhere in the world. If a vaccine-resistant comes out of a country where it's not under control, all the hard work will have been for nothing.

Bolsonaro thinks you're a wimp. He is effectively murdering his population.

In better news French vaccination efforts are now acceptable (March has seen 5 M vaccination)

Bad news is that the government lost the race between vaccine and English Variant. (90% + prevalent)

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/ar ... 55770.html

The Hospitals have reached Max capacity and the last 4 month without confinment with Curfew have also meant that the Hospital staff never rested since the November wave/ confinment.

[Raggs]

Then you're looking at an extended lockdown on international travel.
Fine if you're on an island like us but not very practical for everybody else.

Being on an island makes it easier, but no more or less practical. Travel can occur, but quarantine periods would need to be enforced, perhaps not for people from well vaccinated countries, who take a test before and on arrival.

[tabascoboy]

Problem is, as we know a very small number of arrivals can have a huge impact on bringing a virus or mutation in undetected. How many billions are we talking about throughout the world yet to vaccinate? That's not a valid reason not to engage with a program of worldwide vaccination supplies and assistance of course, but it's harder to control that than your own situation first.

This is something, unfortunately where we have to win one game at a time.

[Glaston]

FFS, the youngsters in Nottingham.
What a bunch of tards.

[BnM]

FFS, the youngsters in Nottingham.
What a bunch of tards.

I kinda feel closer/a shared affinity to Europe because as much as we denigrate the UK it's sadly heartening to realise that every country has its fuckwits.

[Biffer]

Leaving aside grandstanding for a moment


(Oh that should be a simple link, not an embed fail...)

Let's hope the age limit for general vaccination starts to move downwards soon.

We probably need to start thinking about refocusing efforts on getting vaccinations going elsewhere in the world. If a vaccine-resistant comes out of a country where it's not under control, all the hard work will have been for nothing.

Vaccinating a whole country gives it a chance of at least isolating itself. Vaccinating 10% all over the world will have no effect. Now as soon as a country is closing in on being properly vaccinated, then they should absolutely be working towards helping other countries get upto the same status, rather than simply sitting on a stockpile.

Yeah, I think that's right. Entirely practical to get 90%+ vaccinated in all of Europe, USA + Canada, Australasia, and probably China and Russia before the end of this year though. And likely a big slab of India. If you take all those vaccinations and distribute them across the world, there's still a worldwide pandemic with regular lockdowns. Smallpox was eradicated country by country. Same with Polio (not eradicated but we're getting close to the disease no longer affecting people). In fact every previous vaccination programme. There are rights and wrongs that can be criticised in that, obviously, but that's the way it will happen.

My key hope from this is that emergent diseases provoke far more rapid global reactions in future. International efforts to contain, rapid vaccine production, preventative measures to stop a situation like this happening again.

[Fangle]

If you choose not to vaccinate your whole population in favour of sending vaccines to other countries, which group/groups in your country are you going to leave unvaccinated?

[Paddington Bear]

FFS, the youngsters in Nottingham.
What a bunch of tards.

There's more to this than just 'bloody kids'.

This has been a horrendous lockdown and most people under 30 have either exceptionally limited, or no, outdoor space. Where are people supposed to go when it gets warm? Who doesn't enjoy a beer or two in the sun?
There is also of course almost no evidence of transmission from crowded outdoor areas.

Obviously the litter left over is disgraceful and shouldn't happen.

[Margin__Walker]

Yep, agree with that to an extent.

Clearly any behavioural issues and litter are a problem and lets them down, but the beach/park shaming thing generally puts a lot of focus on something that isn't massively high risk.

[Paddington Bear]

Right. A key part of the rationale for public parks was and is to provide r&r space for those who don't have their own.

[Glaston]

There is only ONE Park in the whole of Nottingham?

Feck right off with simping for such hard done by "youngsters"
They werent't just taking a wander in a green space .

[tc27]

Canada and Germany now restricting AZ to OVER 60s.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... sage_share

[Glaston]

The Austrian PM !!
I presume he has elections this year

[Paddington Bear]

There is only ONE Park in the whole of Nottingham?

Feck right off with simping for such hard done by "youngsters"
They werent't just taking a wander in a green space .

Right, so let’s start off with 1) I fit into the upper end of the cohort, and 2) rent a smallish flat and have been slowly losing my mind since Christmas being stuck in what increasingly resembles a surprisingly expensive box. So people stuck into shitty student houses (I assume most of them are from the unis) have my sympathy.

Then let’s move onto the fact that they don’t have to use the park to go for a walk anymore, the vast majority who weren’t fighting and being general dicks were well within their rights to sit down and have a beer.

And we can finish with the fact that we now know that for all of the moral outrage about packed parks and beaches last year, there is no evidence of any link between them and a rise in cases, and we know that transmission outside is highly limited.

Obviously the idiots fighting or littering can do one and should be dealt with, but the vast, vast majority in that park did nothing wrong at all.

[Raggs]

Canada and Germany now restricting AZ to OVER 60s.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... sage_share

Isn't this the vaccine that they were limited to under 65s not so long ago?

[Saint]

Canada and Germany now restricting AZ to OVER 60s.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... sage_share

Isn't this the vaccine that they were limited to under 65s not so long ago?

And people wonder why there's a lack of trust in vaccines.

[eldanielfire]

Canada and Germany now restricting AZ to OVER 60s.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... sage_share

Isn't this the vaccine that they were limited to under 65s not so long ago?

And people wonder why there's a lack of trust in vaccines.

As well as politics.

[sockwithaticket]

There is only ONE Park in the whole of Nottingham?

Feck right off with simping for such hard done by "youngsters"
They werent't just taking a wander in a green space .

Right, so let’s start off with 1) I fit into the upper end of the cohort, and 2) rent a smallish flat and have been slowly losing my mind since Christmas being stuck in what increasingly resembles a surprisingly expensive box. So people stuck into shitty student houses (I assume most of them are from the unis) have my sympathy.

Then let’s move onto the fact that they don’t have to use the park to go for a walk anymore, the vast majority who weren’t fighting and being general dicks were well within their rights to sit down and have a beer.

And we can finish with the fact that we now know that for all of the moral outrage about packed parks and beaches last year, there is no evidence of any link between them and a rise in cases, and we know that transmission outside is highly limited.

Obviously the idiots fighting or littering can do one and should be dealt with, but the vast, vast majority in that park did nothing wrong at all.

I have the luxury of a garden bigger than a postage stamp and being in a relatively rural area so regular walks and things are viable yet I'm still been feeling incredibly hemmed in since Christmas. I have no idea how people with less living space and fewer options for stepping outdoors are coping. All my sympathy.

Litterers should be put in the stocks, though.

[Saint]

There is only ONE Park in the whole of Nottingham?

Feck right off with simping for such hard done by "youngsters"
They werent't just taking a wander in a green space .

Right, so let’s start off with 1) I fit into the upper end of the cohort, and 2) rent a smallish flat and have been slowly losing my mind since Christmas being stuck in what increasingly resembles a surprisingly expensive box. So people stuck into shitty student houses (I assume most of them are from the unis) have my sympathy.

Then let’s move onto the fact that they don’t have to use the park to go for a walk anymore, the vast majority who weren’t fighting and being general dicks were well within their rights to sit down and have a beer.

And we can finish with the fact that we now know that for all of the moral outrage about packed parks and beaches last year, there is no evidence of any link between them and a rise in cases, and we know that transmission outside is highly limited.

Obviously the idiots fighting or littering can do one and should be dealt with, but the vast, vast majority in that park did nothing wrong at all.

I have the luxury of a garden bigger than a postage stamp and being in a relatively rural area so regular walks and things are viable yet I'm still been feeling incredibly hemmed in since Christmas. I have no idea how people with less living space and fewer options for stepping outdoors are coping. All my sympathy.

Litterers should be put in the stocks, though.

Very much this. In the company I work for, I;m the rarity of having a large home in the sticks, with space , garden etc. This last lockdown has been pretty tough, even with all those advantages. How on earth the 20-somethings in the cities who are flat sharing with 1-2 others have got through this is beyond me. I'm not going to begrudge them taking the first opportunity they have to get a few cans out in the park with some mates. But I would expect/hope that they would deal with their trash.....

[sockwithaticket]

Right, so let’s start off with 1) I fit into the upper end of the cohort, and 2) rent a smallish flat and have been slowly losing my mind since Christmas being stuck in what increasingly resembles a surprisingly expensive box. So people stuck into shitty student houses (I assume most of them are from the unis) have my sympathy.

Then let’s move onto the fact that they don’t have to use the park to go for a walk anymore, the vast majority who weren’t fighting and being general dicks were well within their rights to sit down and have a beer.

And we can finish with the fact that we now know that for all of the moral outrage about packed parks and beaches last year, there is no evidence of any link between them and a rise in cases, and we know that transmission outside is highly limited.

Obviously the idiots fighting or littering can do one and should be dealt with, but the vast, vast majority in that park did nothing wrong at all.

I have the luxury of a garden bigger than a postage stamp and being in a relatively rural area so regular walks and things are viable yet I'm still been feeling incredibly hemmed in since Christmas. I have no idea how people with less living space and fewer options for stepping outdoors are coping. All my sympathy.

Litterers should be put in the stocks, though.

Very much this. In the company I work for, I;m the rarity of having a large home in the sticks, with space , garden etc. This last lockdown has been pretty tough, even with all those advantages. How on earth the 20-somethings in the cities who are flat sharing with 1-2 others have got through this is beyond me. I'm not going to begrudge them taking the first opportunity they have to get a few cans out in the park with some mates. But I would expect/hope that they would deal with their trash.....

Pretty much all my mates are still late 20s/early 30 somethings renting shoe boxes in London and I don't know how they haven't lost their minds. I've had conversations with a couple who needed some geeing up and to have a moan, but most of them seem to coping admirably. They are all gagging to finally roam free, though.

[BnM]

London has loads of parks at least. In Pimlico I had private gardens and Battersea nearby and East Finchley Highgate woods. But today I went to Nidd Gorge, walk along the river, through the woods, was able to let the dog run around a big field and look over the viaduct. Definitely better than the same park month after month.

[shaggy]

London has loads of parks at least. In Pimlico I had private gardens and Battersea nearby and East Finchley Highgate woods. But today I went to Nidd Gorge, walk along the river, through the woods, was able to let the dog run around a big field and look over the viaduct. Definitely better than the same park month after month.

It’s not the open spaces that the younger section of society is missing, they seem to hardly use it during the winter months, it’s the pubs and bars.

[Calculon]

London has loads of parks at least. In Pimlico I had private gardens and Battersea nearby and East Finchley Highgate woods. But today I went to Nidd Gorge, walk along the river, through the woods, was able to let the dog run around a big field and look over the viaduct. Definitely better than the same park month after month.

It’s not the open spaces that the younger section of society is missing, they seem to hardly use it during the winter months, it’s the pubs and bars.

That's a bit unfair. When I was living in London, if it was a sunny winter's day, there would be loads of young people in the parks. On weekends at least.

[eldanielfire]

London has loads of parks at least. In Pimlico I had private gardens and Battersea nearby and East Finchley Highgate woods. But today I went to Nidd Gorge, walk along the river, through the woods, was able to let the dog run around a big field and look over the viaduct. Definitely better than the same park month after month.

That's a long walk from Pimlico.....

[Saint]

Isn't this the vaccine that they were limited to under 65s not so long ago?

And people wonder why there's a lack of trust in vaccines.

As well as politics.

So, in Germany they've seen 31 cases in 2.7 million AZ recipients. In the UK we have 5 cases in 11 million. Seems like a massive disparity in the numbers that doesn't make much sense, not to mention that no-one has yet come up with any sort of plausible process how the vaccine could cause the blood clotting

[Sandstorm]

And people wonder why there's a lack of trust in vaccines.

As well as politics.

So, in Germany they've seen 31 cases in 2.7 million AZ recipients. In the UK we have 5 cases in 11 million. Seems like a massive disparity in the numbers that doesn't make much sense, not to mention that no-one has yet come up with any sort of plausible process how the vaccine could cause the blood clotting

Sauerkraut?

[shaggy]

London has loads of parks at least. In Pimlico I had private gardens and Battersea nearby and East Finchley Highgate woods. But today I went to Nidd Gorge, walk along the river, through the woods, was able to let the dog run around a big field and look over the viaduct. Definitely better than the same park month after month.

It’s not the open spaces that the younger section of society is missing, they seem to hardly use it during the winter months, it’s the pubs and bars.

That's a bit unfair. When I was living in London, if it was a sunny winter's day, there would be loads of young people in the parks. On weekends at least.

Maybe, but we have returned to large amounts of litter most of which seem to be beer bottles and the common theme is not ‘outdoors’ it is alcohol. Not being critical, just stating facts, I’m sure I would be driven by the same desires at that age but without the littering.

[Biffer]

I have the luxury of a garden bigger than a postage stamp and being in a relatively rural area so regular walks and things are viable yet I'm still been feeling incredibly hemmed in since Christmas. I have no idea how people with less living space and fewer options for stepping outdoors are coping. All my sympathy.

Litterers should be put in the stocks, though.

Very much this. In the company I work for, I;m the rarity of having a large home in the sticks, with space , garden etc. This last lockdown has been pretty tough, even with all those advantages. How on earth the 20-somethings in the cities who are flat sharing with 1-2 others have got through this is beyond me. I'm not going to begrudge them taking the first opportunity they have to get a few cans out in the park with some mates. But I would expect/hope that they would deal with their trash.....

Pretty much all my mates are still late 20s/early 30 somethings renting shoe boxes in London and I don't know how they haven't lost their minds. I've had conversations with a couple who needed some geeing up and to have a moan, but most of them seem to coping admirably. They are all gagging to finally roam free, though.

Yeah, it must be hellish. I’m in a flat, but I’m right next to a golf course, five minutes walk from Corstorphine Hill and Edinburgh is quite a green city. I’ve also got an allotment, which was great last summer.

[Paddington Bear]

It’s not the open spaces that the younger section of society is missing, they seem to hardly use it during the winter months, it’s the pubs and bars.

That's a bit unfair. When I was living in London, if it was a sunny winter's day, there would be loads of young people in the parks. On weekends at least.

Maybe, but we have returned to large amounts of litter most of which seem to be beer bottles and the common theme is not ‘outdoors’ it is alcohol. Not being critical, just stating facts, I’m sure I would be driven by the same desires at that age but without the littering.

People who litter public spaces are a disgrace, I think we all agree on that. This conversation though started because given all social spaces are closed and almost everyone in that park will not own a garden of any size it was the only space available to them to have a beer with a few mates on the first nice day of the year, which incidentally timed with it being legal to do so.

[Saint]

As well as politics.

So, in Germany they've seen 31 cases in 2.7 million AZ recipients. In the UK we have 5 cases in 11 million. Seems like a massive disparity in the numbers that doesn't make much sense, not to mention that no-one has yet come up with any sort of plausible process how the vaccine could cause the blood clotting

Sauerkraut?

[shaggy]

That's a bit unfair. When I was living in London, if it was a sunny winter's day, there would be loads of young people in the parks. On weekends at least.

Maybe, but we have returned to large amounts of litter most of which seem to be beer bottles and the common theme is not ‘outdoors’ it is alcohol. Not being critical, just stating facts, I’m sure I would be driven by the same desires at that age but without the littering.

People who litter public spaces are a disgrace, I think we all agree on that. This conversation though started because given all social spaces are closed and almost everyone in that park will not own a garden of any size it was the only space available to them to have a beer with a few mates on the first nice day of the year, which incidentally timed with it being legal to do so.

Oh, I know. However those same green spaces were not half as popular a few short weeks ago when we had good weather but the meeting up was restricted. Alcohol has been a catalyst for poor behaviour and the outdoors was the victim!

[Biffer]

Maybe, but we have returned to large amounts of litter most of which seem to be beer bottles and the common theme is not ‘outdoors’ it is alcohol. Not being critical, just stating facts, I’m sure I would be driven by the same desires at that age but without the littering.

People who litter public spaces are a disgrace, I think we all agree on that. This conversation though started because given all social spaces are closed and almost everyone in that park will not own a garden of any size it was the only space available to them to have a beer with a few mates on the first nice day of the year, which incidentally timed with it being legal to do so.

Oh, I know. However those same green spaces were not half as popular a few short weeks ago when we had good weather but the meeting up was restricted. Alcohol has been a catalyst for poor behaviour and the outdoors was the victim!

Think you may have defeated your own point here.

[Lobby]

Grim stuff from Mexico as their Government has admitted the actual death count is way higher than the official toll (321,000 vs 201,000) and no way are they the only ones in this position.

A similar re-evaluation in Brazil would likely show 500,000+ (I would actually believe 1,000,000+)

In addition to Brazil's continuing Coronavirus disaster (every day seems to herald a new record death count, 3,700+ yesterday in the official figures), the heads of the army, navy and air force all resigned yesterday in protest at Bolsonaro's leadership. This follows the resignations last week of Brazil's Foreign and Defence Ministers. Its hard to see this as anything but the collapse of the state as a functioning polity.