So, coronavirus...

[Lobby]

The dumb, stupid and dirty Europeans have forced the UK to recommend under 30s get offered a vaccine other than our glorious Astrazeneca vaccine.

Aren't they stupid these dumb dirty Europeans. Fu.cking Von dumb Lieden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Just being a little skeptical here, but could that not also be a step towards trying to ensure people continue getting vaccinated? Offering an alternative is a long way from not allowing AZ to be given. PR more than anything no?

EMA still recommending that it should continue to be used for all groups, but that blood clots should also now be listed as a very rare side effect.

[SaintK]

The dumb, stupid and dirty Europeans have forced the UK to recommend under 30s get offered a vaccine other than our glorious Astrazeneca vaccine.

Aren't they stupid these dumb dirty Europeans. Fu.cking Von dumb Lieden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Just being a little skeptical here, but could that not also be a step towards trying to ensure people continue getting vaccinated? Offering an alternative is a long way from not allowing AZ to be given. PR more than anything no?

EMA still recommending that it should continue to be used for all groups, but that blood clots should also now be listed as a very rare side effect.

MHRA saying the same with a proviso for the under 30's

People should get the AZ vaccine according to schedule, he says.
But he says people aged 18 to 29 who do not have an underlying health condition that puts them at greater risk from Covid should be offered an alternative to the AZ vaccine if one is available.

[Raggs]

Just being a little skeptical here, but could that not also be a step towards trying to ensure people continue getting vaccinated? Offering an alternative is a long way from not allowing AZ to be given. PR more than anything no?

EMA still recommending that it should continue to be used for all groups, but that blood clots should also now be listed as a very rare side effect.

MHRA saying the same with a proviso for the under 30's

People should get the AZ vaccine according to schedule, he says.
But he says people aged 18 to 29 who do not have an underlying health condition that puts them at greater risk from Covid should be offered an alternative to the AZ vaccine if one is available.

Should be offered an alternative, rather than should be given? I know it seems petty, but it's exactly the sort of wording that is important. If there was a genuine fear it would be "given".

[Biffer]

EMA still recommending that it should continue to be used for all groups, but that blood clots should also now be listed as a very rare side effect.

MHRA saying the same with a proviso for the under 30's

People should get the AZ vaccine according to schedule, he says.
But he says people aged 18 to 29 who do not have an underlying health condition that puts them at greater risk from Covid should be offered an alternative to the AZ vaccine if one is available.

Should be offered an alternative, rather than should be given? I know it seems petty, but it's exactly the sort of wording that is important. If there was a genuine fear it would be "given".

They said 'offered'.

[Raggs]

MHRA saying the same with a proviso for the under 30's

Should be offered an alternative, rather than should be given? I know it seems petty, but it's exactly the sort of wording that is important. If there was a genuine fear it would be "given".

They said 'offered'.

Yes. Offered. Offered is very different from Given. Offered means a choice. Given when available, means there's a clear concern, and not given AZ, would mean there's actually some worrying evidence.

Both MHRA and EMA are saying the same thing. There's not really anything to be properly concerned about. MHRA are putting in place a PR campaign to try and ensure those people who were on the fence, come in for their vaccinations, and we don't end up with a situation like some countries, where seemingly half their population is pro-plague.

[Biffer]

Good visuals of relative risk here

[Calculon]

Why would the AZ increase the risk of blood clots to a greater extent than the other covid vaccines, especially the other adenovirus vector ones?

[Raggs]

Why would the AZ increase the risk of blood clots to a greater extent than the other covid vaccines, especially the other adenovirus vector ones?

We still don't know if it really does. The numbers are so tiny that it's tough to really tell. It's why EMA and MHRA still say it's fine for everyone.

[TheNatalShark]

The dumb, stupid and dirty Europeans have forced the UK to recommend under 30s get offered a vaccine other than our glorious Astrazeneca vaccine.

Aren't they stupid these dumb dirty Europeans. Fu.cking Von dumb Lieden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Just being a little skeptical here, but could that not also be a step towards trying to ensure people continue getting vaccinated? Offering an alternative is a long way from not allowing AZ to be given. PR more than anything no?

No, any discussion around reviews or investigations of AZ is stupidity and purely politically motivated by "the EU" due to Anglophobia and to cover for their procurement failures. Any public announcements by out of touch and stupid regulators only serves to erode public confidence. There is no nuance, only demonstrable stupidity by the Euros. We don't even have to leave this thread for our own perceptions of it.

Whilst I'm disappointed this may make my own getting of a jab (28) a tiny bit more complicated or delayed, I'm very grateful for both our scientists and those across the ponds for doing work to promote the safety of drugs and vaccines - and aren't just dismissing raised concerns as 'stupid', 'ignoring data', 'no evidence', 'no good reason'.

Ireland become the latest country to suspend the use of AZ based on what is effectively anecdotal evidence. Completely ignoring the data from now 17 million doses delivered with so signs at all of any increase in blood clotting events

Utterly bonkers

What is going on here? Political cover for delivery delays?

And now Germany halting AZ.

Absolutely nuts. There's absolutely no evidence for this, nor is there even any theoretical explanation how the vaccine might cause it anyway

If the UK govt had any sense (pffft), they'd put Europe on the no-travel list for Summer 2021.

And now Spain jumps onboard the stupidity bandwagon

I wonder how many lives will be lost through this pandemic of stupidity.

France start using the AZ vaccine again today, but having previously restricted its use to those under 65, for no good reason, and then suspending its use for no good reason, they are now restricting its use to those over 55, again for no good reason.

Some EU countries are going to end up pouring AZ vaccines down the drain, aren't they?

[Raggs]

You'll be reassured no doubt by the fact that both the EMA and the MHRA have decreed that it's perfectly safe then, and that there's still not enough evidence to suggest that there's any identifiable risk factors (such as age/sex) to suggest that a group could be more vulnerable.

So yes, countries continuing to ignore the medical advice from their own bloody agencies, in terms of not halting or restricting usage of the AZ vaccine, are being bloody stupid. EMA has continuously said that such restrictions should not be in place.

[TheNatalShark]

You'll be reassured no doubt by the fact that both the EMA and the MHRA have decreed that it's perfectly safe then, and that there's still not enough evidence to suggest that there's any identifiable risk factors (such as age/sex) to suggest that a group could be more vulnerable.

So yes, countries continuing to ignore the medical advice from their own bloody agencies, in terms of not halting or restricting usage of the AZ vaccine, are being bloody stupid. EMA has continuously said that such restrictions should not be in place.

That is categorically not true though. It is an outright lie that national regulators in Europe did not provide advice to their governments regarding pauses to investigate.

The closest it got to it was when Italian and French reps publicly announced they would await the EMA's further comment, and thereafter still recommended to governments about age group restrictions on their own basis.

It is an outright and demonstrable lie, evidenced by national regulators own press releases.

Unless the national regulators are under big bad Ursula's thumb.

[Raggs]

You'll be reassured no doubt by the fact that both the EMA and the MHRA have decreed that it's perfectly safe then, and that there's still not enough evidence to suggest that there's any identifiable risk factors (such as age/sex) to suggest that a group could be more vulnerable.

So yes, countries continuing to ignore the medical advice from their own bloody agencies, in terms of not halting or restricting usage of the AZ vaccine, are being bloody stupid. EMA has continuously said that such restrictions should not be in place.

That is categorically not true though. It is an outright lie that national regulators in Europe did not provide advice to their governments regarding pauses to investigate.

The closest it got to it was when Italian and French reps publicly announced they would await the EMA's further comment, and thereafter still recommended to governments about age group restrictions on their own basis.

It is an outright and demonstrable lie, evidenced by national regulators own press releases.

Unless the national regulators are under big bad Ursula's thumb.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern ... y-2256950/

The director general of Italy's medicines authority, Nicola Magrini, told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica that the decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout was a "political one".

"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," he said, adding that the vaccine was safe.

The WHO, the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the EMA have all said there is no evidence the jab causes the problems.

And today, they've once again said that it's safe.

[TheNatalShark]

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern ... y-2256950/

The director general of Italy's medicines authority, Nicola Magrini, told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica that the decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout was a "political one".

"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," he said, adding that the vaccine was safe.

The WHO, the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the EMA have all said there is no evidence the jab causes the problems.

And today, they've once again said that it's safe.

An outright lie and demonstrably false - here is the press release from the Paul Ehrlich Institut

https://www.pei.de/SharedDocs/FAQs/EN/c ... ended.html

Go ahead, tell me they lied and the decision was a political one.


I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep restating that it is safe.

[Raggs]

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern ... y-2256950/

The director general of Italy's medicines authority, Nicola Magrini, told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica that the decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout was a "political one".

"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," he said, adding that the vaccine was safe.

The WHO, the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the EMA have all said there is no evidence the jab causes the problems.

And today, they've once again said that it's safe.

An outright lie and demonstrably false - here is the press release from the Paul Ehrlich Institut

https://www.pei.de/SharedDocs/FAQs/EN/c ... ended.html

Go ahead, tell me they lied and the decision was a political one.


I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep restating that it is safe.

Fine, the german's advised for the pause, the italians stated it was political, and the european health agency consistently stated it was safe, and still do.

I feel the need to keep saying that, because otherwise people may start to believe that it's been found to not be safe, and I don't want that to happen, because it's important for me that as many people as possible get vaccinated.

[TheNatalShark]

Fine, the german's advised for the pause, the italians stated it was political, and the european health agency consistently stated it was safe, and still do.

I feel the need to keep saying that, because otherwise people may start to believe that it's been found to not be safe, and I don't want that to happen, because it's important for me that as many people as possible get vaccinated.

The Italian comment is grossly, grossly misstated as being plainly "political" - Draghi did not pitch up and pressure for an Italian pause. It was a 'political' decision by their own authorities to review in unison with other regulators - not simply a top down one on the regulator. Here is the actual interview where the situation is fully described.

https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/ ... 292405820/

"The precautionary stop arises from constant discussions with the Minister of Health and other countries, and matured after the meeting at the EMA. The option had already been discussed a week ago, but it was preferred to act by simply withdrawing the stocks. . We are now convinced that a comprehensive review of all data and a more detailed analysis is better. "


And by continuously insisting that pauses were made for political reasoning and not scientific ones, and that the national regulators of these countries are 'stupid' does not exactly render a reader to believe that they are being well looked after by the "stupid" decisions of their regulators.

[Biffer]

Exactly. The EMA and MHRA still recommend it for all adults.

[Glaston]

EU's constant bleating about UK not exporting vaccines may be incorrect.

"The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.
The first 300,000 UK-made doses landed at Sydney Airport on February 28 – one month after the European Commission introduced new curbs limiting the export of vaccines produced on the continent.
Another large batch arrived on an Emirates passenger plane in March, well after Italy and the European Commission formally blocked an application by AstraZeneca to ship 250,000 doses to Australia."

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/ ... 57hcl.html

[Glaston]

The dumb, stupid and dirty Europeans have forced the UK to recommend under 30s get offered a vaccine other than our glorious Astrazeneca vaccine.

Aren't they stupid these dumb dirty Europeans. Fu.cking Von dumb Lieden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Just to point out Brits are European too

[Saint]

EU's constant bleating about UK not exporting vaccines may be incorrect.

"The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.
The first 300,000 UK-made doses landed at Sydney Airport on February 28 – one month after the European Commission introduced new curbs limiting the export of vaccines produced on the continent.
Another large batch arrived on an Emirates passenger plane in March, well after Italy and the European Commission formally blocked an application by AstraZeneca to ship 250,000 doses to Australia."

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/ ... 57hcl.html

Ursula will go ballistic. They should have gone to the EU (in her mind)

[Rinkals]

The dumb, stupid and dirty Europeans have forced the UK to recommend under 30s get offered a vaccine other than our glorious Astrazeneca vaccine.

Aren't they stupid these dumb dirty Europeans. Fu.cking Von dumb Lieden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Just to point out Brits are European too

I thought the whole point of Brexit is that they aren't?

[Rinkals]

EU's constant bleating about UK not exporting vaccines may be incorrect.

"The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.
The first 300,000 UK-made doses landed at Sydney Airport on February 28 – one month after the European Commission introduced new curbs limiting the export of vaccines produced on the continent.
Another large batch arrived on an Emirates passenger plane in March, well after Italy and the European Commission formally blocked an application by AstraZeneca to ship 250,000 doses to Australia."

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/ ... 57hcl.html

Ursula will go ballistic. They should have gone to the EU (in her mind)

She has definitely been a disastrous appointment.

It's all very well wanting diversity in governance, but a modicum of competence is also needed.

[Ovals]

The dumb, stupid and dirty Europeans have forced the UK to recommend under 30s get offered a vaccine other than our glorious Astrazeneca vaccine.

Aren't they stupid these dumb dirty Europeans. Fu.cking Von dumb Lieden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Just to point out Brits are European too

I thought the whole point of Brexit is that they aren't?

Europe is a Geographical identity. The UK left the European Union which is a political/trading identity.

[Ovals]

Just to point out Brits are European too

I thought the whole point of Brexit is that they aren't?

Europe is a Geographical entity. The UK left the European Union which is a political/trading entity.

[Rinkals]

Just to point out Brits are European too

I thought the whole point of Brexit is that they aren't?

Europe is a Geographical identity. The UK left the European Union which is a political/trading identity.

I suppose I'm making the point that the Brits themselves (or 52% of them*) don't regard themselves as European.

*probably a lot less now, considering the impact of the pandemic on that demographic

[TheNatalShark]

EU's constant bleating about UK not exporting vaccines may be incorrect.

"The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.
The first 300,000 UK-made doses landed at Sydney Airport on February 28 – one month after the European Commission introduced new curbs limiting the export of vaccines produced on the continent.
Another large batch arrived on an Emirates passenger plane in March, well after Italy and the European Commission formally blocked an application by AstraZeneca to ship 250,000 doses to Australia."

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/ ... 57hcl.html

Excellent to read, gives me hope similar arrangements were made for harder hit regions and Covax, and bodes well for UK gov's dependability to allow company freedom on any potential future pandemics.

[TheNatalShark]

Just to point out Brits are European too

I thought the whole point of Brexit is that they aren't?

Europe is a Geographical identity. The UK left the European Union which is a political/trading identity.

We aren't European. Europeans are a homogeneous group of people living under a single political bloc which behaves in a uniform fashion. Any attempted distinction between the people, national governments or bodies and the EU is pretty much meaningless.

[Ovals]

I thought the whole point of Brexit is that they aren't?

Europe is a Geographical identity. The UK left the European Union which is a political/trading identity.

We aren't European. Europeans are a homogeneous group of people living under a single political bloc which behaves in a uniform fashion. Any attempted distinction between the people, national governments or bodies and the EU is pretty much meaningless.

Of course we're European - we live in the continent that is Europe. Just as Canadians are North American. Not all countries in Europe are part of the EU -

Albania*
Andorra
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina**
Georgia
Iceland
Kosovo**
Liechtenstein
Moldova
Monaco
Montenegro*
North Macedonia*
Norway
Russia
San Marino
Serbia*
Switzerland
Turkey*
Ukraine
United Kingdom (left EU on January 31, 2020)
Vatican City
* Countries that are in the process of integrating the EU legislation into national law.
** Potential candidate countries that do not yet fulfil the requirements for EU membership.

[TheNatalShark]

Okay, in future I will italicise my sarcasm. Apologies for confusion and thank you for engaging in good faith.

[Saint]

NI opens up for vaccinating 40-44 age group

[tc27]

EU's constant bleating about UK not exporting vaccines may be incorrect.

"The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.
The first 300,000 UK-made doses landed at Sydney Airport on February 28 – one month after the European Commission introduced new curbs limiting the export of vaccines produced on the continent.
Another large batch arrived on an Emirates passenger plane in March, well after Italy and the European Commission formally blocked an application by AstraZeneca to ship 250,000 doses to Australia."

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/ ... 57hcl.html

Ursula will go ballistic. They should have gone to the EU (in her mind)

Its entirely possible the UK agreed to meet Australia's AZ order from its own stocks as part of the deal to avoid an export ban on PZ from the EU - no-one is discussing details though.

[Saint]

EU's constant bleating about UK not exporting vaccines may be incorrect.

"The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal Australia’s early rollout has been propped up by 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK rather than from factories in Europe as widely believed.
The first 300,000 UK-made doses landed at Sydney Airport on February 28 – one month after the European Commission introduced new curbs limiting the export of vaccines produced on the continent.
Another large batch arrived on an Emirates passenger plane in March, well after Italy and the European Commission formally blocked an application by AstraZeneca to ship 250,000 doses to Australia."

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/ ... 57hcl.html

Ursula will go ballistic. They should have gone to the EU (in her mind)

Its entirely possible the UK agreed to meet Australia's AZ order from its own stocks as part of the deal to avoid an export ban on PZ from the EU - no-one is discussing details though.

According to Ursula they aren't the UK's stocks; but Matt Hancock specifically denied the UK government shipped this - he said very specifically that it was AstraZeneca

[yermum]

Pure hearsay anecdotal etc so salt needed. My friend, a scottish renal consultant says her dept has had three deaths in the last couple of weeks. All young women within 2 weeks of AZ vaccination.

Her take is there is a bigger problem with AZ then we are seeing atm

[Saint]

Pure hearsay anecdotal etc so salt needed. My friend, a scottish renal consultant says her dept has had three deaths in the last couple of weeks. All young women within 2 weeks of AZ vaccination.

Her take is there is a bigger problem with AZ then we are seeing atm

So she's saying AZ is causing kidney failure?

[Torquemada 1420]

Pure hearsay anecdotal etc so salt needed. My friend, a scottish renal consultant says her dept has had three deaths in the last couple of weeks. All young women within 2 weeks of AZ vaccination.

Her take is there is a bigger problem with AZ then we are seeing atm

So she's saying AZ is causing kidney failure?

Friend been in hospital feeling unwell since last week. Diagnosed as arrhythmia. He had no symptoms before and cardiac consultant has told him yesterday that he believes it has been caused by his AZ vaccination.

[Saint]

Pure hearsay anecdotal etc so salt needed. My friend, a scottish renal consultant says her dept has had three deaths in the last couple of weeks. All young women within 2 weeks of AZ vaccination.

Her take is there is a bigger problem with AZ then we are seeing atm

So she's saying AZ is causing kidney failure?

Friend been in hospital feeling unwell since last week. Diagnosed as arrhythmia. He had no symptoms before and cardiac consultant has told him yesterday that he believes it has been caused by his AZ vaccination.

Dear god............

[Torquemada 1420]

So she's saying AZ is causing kidney failure?

Friend been in hospital feeling unwell since last week. Diagnosed as arrhythmia. He had no symptoms before and cardiac consultant has told him yesterday that he believes it has been caused by his AZ vaccination.

Dear god............

Yup. I told his missus to get the consultant to put that in writing. But whatever the truth, there are a lot of ugly pictures being painted at the moment which does not instil one with confidence.

[yermum]

Pure hearsay anecdotal etc so salt needed. My friend, a scottish renal consultant says her dept has had three deaths in the last couple of weeks. All young women within 2 weeks of AZ vaccination.

Her take is there is a bigger problem with AZ then we are seeing atm

So she's saying AZ is causing kidney failure?

Renal venous thrombosis I think

But again anecdotal so salt needed

[Lobby]

Although Slovakia ordered 200,000 doses of the Sputnik vaccine last month, it has not yet used any.

Reuters are reporting that the Slovak National drug agency SUKL has said it can't determine that the vaccine is safe because of "missing data, inconsistency of dosage forms, and (the) impossibility of mutually comparing batches used in various studies and countries,”

It is also being reported in Slovak media that the Slovak batch of Sputnik V is not identical to one used in a trial whose results were published in the Lancet magazine in February, and which Slovak experts had used as an argument for using the vaccine.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2BU1X7

If the Sputnik vaccines being delivered are different to those used in trials, it must raise concerns about its efficacy.

[Slick]

So she's saying AZ is causing kidney failure?

Friend been in hospital feeling unwell since last week. Diagnosed as arrhythmia. He had no symptoms before and cardiac consultant has told him yesterday that he believes it has been caused by his AZ vaccination.

Dear god............

My wife was speaking to her friend, a GP, at the weekend who was saying one of her best friends from Uni was part of the AZ vaccine team and wouldn't choose to have it himself....

[TheNatalShark]

Some good news, Germany sees the results of finally allowing GPs to administer doses and effectively doubles the previous highest rate of daily jabs. Hopefully they can work through the backlog before delivery rates increase