Game of Thrones / Is Winter Coming?

[tabascoboy]

Continued from the old place - you know the score, throw shit at seasons 7 & 8 and GRRM for being a slow writer.




Spoiler tagging discretionary, but not really needed by now for the show.

[Jb1981]

Seasons 7 and 8 were rubbish and if GRRM Martin is going to do anything with a finger he needs to pull it and finish something.

Spoiler

Show

That’s how you do it, right?

[New guy]

Brilliant
Season 1
Season 2
Season 3

Very good
Season 4

Mixed bag
Season 6

Surprisingly poor
Season 5

Very bad
Season 7

Wow...
Season 8

[Paddington Bear]

It is amazing how thoroughly season 8 killed the show. I was among the huge amount of people absolutely obsessed but now if GRRM did bring out the next book... meh.

[tabascoboy]

I still want to read TWoW and hope it comes out within a year, but I have feeling the book will be a long slog. GRRM was still talking about Braavos very recently, so it sounds as if Arya is there forever...well we know one chapter is set there from the sample chapters revealed eons ago but maybe she only has a couple of chapters a long way apart in the book again.

[LandOTurk]

It is amazing how thoroughly season 8 killed the show. I was among the huge amount of people absolutely obsessed but now if GRRM did bring out the next book... meh.

Yep

[BnM]

This is the 3rd iteration of this thread, I started one, then we changed to the current PR and someone else (Fester? yep too lazy to check) created and now we have a 3rd.

Agree, story telling and building went down the toilet in season 8, lazy writing, crap ending, badly paced. Saying that Tyrion's script and plot had been off for at least 3 seasons.

[Paddington Bear]

The problem with show Tyrion is that he became too popular so couldn't go down the book route without a major backlash. The problem with the rest is that D&D wanted out and phoned it in to an extent that I was genuinely laughing at the plot towards the end.

[tabascoboy]

It'll be interesting to see how the story develops in GRRM's own vision, a couple of the sample chapters were encouraging but most of them (e.g. Arianne) were "oh Jeez, more of this? Really?"

[lemonhead]

Liking the idea of the throne changing hands a few more times with FAegon facing off Dany etc. Hopefully the long drawn out shite from Feast and Dance gets trimmed.

Off topic, starting back through a fair few Pratchett audiobooks at work. Aside from the turtle homages there's a lot of stuff Martin's either coincidentally doubled up on or lovingly ripped off over the years:

The failing Night's Watch/Assassin's Guild/Dragons
Borrowing/Warging- losing your human essence
The glamour of Elves
Love/Hate of Iron
71hr Ahmed and violating guest right
The Red Wedding Table plan
'We shall never see his like again'
The sex of dwarves/giants joke
Euron trying to fly/King of the Pyramids
Vampire Vargo and Igor's sthpeecth pattern
There's loads more

[Yeeb]

What was your final series biggest dissapointment ?
For me there were 2 utter wtf moments

1. Those heat seeking WMD dragon slaying crossbow bolts - if they were that good than the burning of kings landing just wouldn’t have happened , just give the baddie guy on the ship some ammo. Very lazy writing.

2. The main battle at the end - wasting your light cavalry dolthrathi in a head on charge opening move, and stationing your trebuchets in front of your army so they get smashed after one volley.

Just utter shite, especially compared to LoR battles

[HighKingLeinster]

that useless cripple getting the throne in the end. he was my most hated of the main characters and then he ends up winning the game of thrones rather than being thrown from cliff for being weak and sickly

[Paddington Bear]

There's too much and I've blanked a lot out. For me though:
- Turns out it was actually really easy to defeat the White Walkers. Kinda an anti-climax
- Dany getting less time and story around her death than Euron
- Arya 'the lone wolf dies but the pack survives' Stark deciding to go and have a western gap yah in the final episode

Embarrassingly poor story telling

[Yeeb]

that useless cripple getting the throne in the end. he was my most hated of the main characters and then he ends up winning the game of thrones rather than being thrown from cliff for being weak and sickly

Irish person in ranting at physically challenged person shocked

//testarossa
#”cappers”

[Yeeb]

There's too much and I've blanked a lot out. For me though:
- Turns out it was actually really easy to defeat the White Walkers. Kinda an anti-climax
- Dany getting less time and story around her death than Euron
- Arya 'the lone wolf dies but the pack survives' Stark deciding to go and have a western gap yah in the final episode

Embarrassingly poor story telling

Arya has discovered cocks now so wants to rack up some notches Kontiki style before getting back to friend zoned gendry

[eldanielfire]

Brilliant
Season 1
Season 2
Season 3

Very good
Season 4

Mixed bag
Season 6

Surprisingly poor
Season 5

Very bad
Season 7

Wow...
Season 8

I thought Season 4 was better than 2. Season 2 kicks off very slowly and gets better. 4 was good all the way. Season 5 wasn't poor and Hardholme was one of the bets ever episodes.

[eldanielfire]

that useless cripple getting the throne in the end. he was my most hated of the main characters and then he ends up winning the game of thrones rather than being thrown from cliff for being weak and sickly

To me the most obvious Throne winner from the books should be Young Griff. He's actually been trained to be a good king and matches GRRMs historical influences and is in a good position to nick the throne. Bran actually makes no sense, he should be more tied to the 'The Others' story progression which I'm certain GRRM intends to be a much more complicated resolution..

[HighKingLeinster]

that useless cripple getting the throne in the end. he was my most hated of the main characters and then he ends up winning the game of thrones rather than being thrown from cliff for being weak and sickly

To me the most obvious Throne winner from the books should be Young Griff. He's actually been trained to be a good king and matches GRRMs historical influences and is in a good position to nick the throne. Bran actually makes no sense, he should be more tied to the 'The Others' story progression which I'm certain GRRM intends to be a much more complicated resolution..

Bran should have just fucked off and become a tree somewhere

and then chopped down and used as firewood

[And 1 guest]

Thrones was a story that had to have an end. I rewatched Breaking Bad recently and felt it could have ended two episodes earlier.

[CrazyIslander]

I'm still disappointed with season 8. They should re-do it again.

[BnM]

Charles Dance.

https://tvline.com/2020/08/18/game-of-t ... ve-signed/

[tabascoboy]

Fear not, GRRM is still working on the books - it's just taken pandemic and lockdown to force him to park his arse in front of the computer and write.

AUGUST 15, 2020

I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER.

It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while.

Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and…

Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin.

My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare.

I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July.

But it is good for the writing.

[ScarfaceClaw]

He sounds like a total dick.

[tabascoboy]

He sounds like a total dick.

[Uncle fester]

What was your final series biggest dissapointment ?
For me there were 2 utter wtf moments

1. Those heat seeking WMD dragon slaying crossbow bolts - if they were that good than the burning of kings landing just wouldn’t have happened , just give the baddie guy on the ship some ammo. Very lazy writing.

2. The main battle at the end - wasting your light cavalry dolthrathi in a head on charge opening move, and stationing your trebuchets in front of your army so they get smashed after one volley.

Just utter shite, especially compared to LoR battles

The battle of winterfell by a million miles.
They had done good legwork in the two episodes previously to set the battle up as a bloodbath and rip our hearts out ala red wedding but they completely wussed out.

[Caley_Red]

Thrones was a story that had to have an end. I rewatched Breaking Bad recently and felt it could have ended two episodes earlier.

'The Wire' was bang-on in this respect, perfect ending.

[tabascoboy]

Another update - still doesn't sound like it's anywhere near finished of course!

Sometimes I do get the feeling that most of you reading my posts here care more about what is happening in Westeros than what is happening in the United States.

So let me assure you that, when not sweating out election returns or brooding over other real world problems, I have continued to work on THE WINDS OF WINTER.

No, sorry, still not done, but I do inch closer. It is a big big book. I try not to dwell on that too much. I write a chapter at a time, a page at a time, a sentence at a time, a word at a time. It is the only way. And sometimes I rewrite.

Of late I have been spending a lot of time with the Lannisters. Cersei and Tyrion in particular. I’ve also paid a visit to Dorne, and dropped in to Oldtown a time or three. In addition to turning out new chapters, I’ve been revising some old ones (some very old)… including, yes, some stuff I read at cons ages ago, or even posted online as samples. I tweak stuff constantly, and sometimes go beyond tweaking, moving things around, combining chapters, breaking chapters in two, reordering stuff.

None of this is even remotely new. It is how the first five books were written.

I was really on a roll back in June and July. Progress has continued since then, but more slowly… I suffered a gut punch in early August that really had me down for a time, and another, for different reasons, in early September. But I slogged on, and of late I am picking up steam again.

...

So that’s where all that stands. Or at least, that’s as much as I am allowed to tell you right now.

Hang in there, friends.

[yermum]

Like many others I was obsessed with the tv show and the books. Season 8 though ... I am really unsure if I will bother with the books now.

[Yeeb]

Like many others I was obsessed with the tv show and the books. Season 8 though ... I am really unsure if I will bother with the books now.

Just watch the tv for the fights, hound saying cunt, and most of the female cast showing their cunt.

[stemoc]

they canceleld the other spinoff they were making after teh pilot got made, now they are trying something else......
House of the Dragon with Paddy Considine as mad king might suck ass, they could have cast a much bigger/known actor..

[Yr Alban]

The final season just got ridiculous. Some of the visuals were amazing, but it was embarrassingly clear that they just wanted it all to be over as quickly as possible.

My favourite ‘WTF?’ moments were the enormous anticlimax of the white walkers (hyped up for 7 seasons), Arya abandoning her revenge quest at the very end after a quick pep-talk from the Hound, and above all the sudden ability of major characters to teleport from one end of the continent to the other.

[Woddy]

I was a massive GoT tragic. Loved it: both books and show. IMO, there were two main drawbacks to Series 8 (and 7 before it):

1. It needed at least another series to draw out some of the plot lines properly. That would have given us much more pleasure in seeing some great storylines (like Little Finger's denouement, Dani's and Cirse's mental descents) pan out rather than Just Happen, abruptly. It would also have avoided the need for people and whole armies seemingly to teleport around the known world.

2. It failed to knit together at all well the two main overarching themes: the supernatural battle of Ice and Fire (involving the WWs, Bran et al, but also the Red Lady, the Red Monk and even the Spider), and the "real", human Machiavellian battle for the Throne.

Particularly with the benefit of hindsight and knowing that they had been seduced by Lucas/Disney, the first can quite largely be blamed on the directors. However, you must remember that the show had become a victim of its own success. Such was the intense interest paid by huge numbers of people in deciphering and predicting plotlines (our discussions on PR being a good example), they were finding it increasingly difficult to film and release seasons before being gazumped through the internet - hence the farce of filming different endings (apparently). It was understood at the time to be one reason why they telescoped the last two seasons; another being that some of the main actors were tiring of the whole experience and wanted to go and do other things than being in NI / Croatia for 5 months of the year.

The second is not so much their fault at all. First, they got slaughtered by GoT nerds like me for stepping away from what we thought the story should be: so for anything. Secondly, I am not sure how it will be possible in any event and it will be interesting to see if GRRM manages it himself. His approach to story-telling meant that plots went off in so many different directions that it is not a given they can be threaded back together again and retain full integrity. Viz the eagles in LotR for similar context.

Overall, we expected too much of it and should try to focus on the good points. The charge of the Dothraki (and subsequent panicked return) at Winterfell is one of the best battle scenes I have ever seen for pathos and tension, and I wish it was not tarnished by criticisms from armchair generals who would never have been defeated at Bosworth Field or lost their legions in the Teutoberg Forest.

[tabascoboy]

Well, well looks like no WoW in 2021 then...

I wrote hundreds and hundreds of pages of THE WINDS OF WINTER in 2020. The best year I’ve had on WOW since I began it. Why? I don’t know. Maybe the isolation. Or maybe I just got on a roll. Sometimes I do get on a roll.

I need to keep rolling, though. I still have hundreds of more pages to write to bring the novel to a satisfactory conclusion.

That’s what 2021 is for, I hope.

I will make no predictions on when I will finish. Every time I do, assholes on the internet take that as a “promise,” and then wait eagerly to crucify me when I miss the deadline. All I will say is that I am hopeful.

[lemonhead]

If you're desperate there's a whole heap of backstory videos on In Deep Geek.

Personally switched over to the free audiobooks. There's only so much plot spoiling you can take from a fandom with sod all better to do.

[BnM]

Mwahahahahaha

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/ ... of-thrones

George RR Martin signs five-year, eight-figure deal for more HBO projects

Game of Thrones author also has a Netflix film on the way, but there is still no word of his finishing the fantasy series that made his name

[Uncle fester]

He's not going to finish them. We'll be lucky to get the next book.
Have made my peace with it.

[Enzedder]

that useless cripple getting the throne in the end. he was my most hated of the main characters and then he ends up winning the game of thrones rather than being thrown from cliff for being weak and sickly

To me the most obvious Throne winner from the books should be Young Griff. He's actually been trained to be a good king and matches GRRMs historical influences and is in a good position to nick the throne. Bran actually makes no sense, he should be more tied to the 'The Others' story progression which I'm certain GRRM intends to be a much more complicated resolution..

Bran should have just fucked off and become a tree somewhere

and then chopped down and used as firewood

You are all wrong - Bran won because he knew what was going to happen and used that to his advantage. Brilliant strategy. That also makes him the best leader you could imagine.

I thought the sacrifice of the Dothraki was also brilliant - too unreliable to leave them as a force post battle.

The Battle with the Ice King could not end any other way if you think it through. That blue bastard just kept increasing the size of his forces.

[Grandpa]

To me the most obvious Throne winner from the books should be Young Griff. He's actually been trained to be a good king and matches GRRMs historical influences and is in a good position to nick the throne. Bran actually makes no sense, he should be more tied to the 'The Others' story progression which I'm certain GRRM intends to be a much more complicated resolution..

Bran should have just fucked off and become a tree somewhere

and then chopped down and used as firewood

You are all wrong - Bran won because he knew what was going to happen and used that to his advantage. Brilliant strategy. That also makes him the best leader you could imagine.

I thought the sacrifice of the Dothraki was also brilliant - too unreliable to leave them as a force post battle.

The Battle with the Ice King could not end any other way if you think it through. That blue bastard just kept increasing the size of his forces.

Is it true that Bran foresaw the Meghan Markle and Harry debacle and if so, does this mean that Harry as per Jon Snow, will end up killing Meghan to save the world?

[Niegs]

Mwahahahahaha

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/ ... of-thrones

George RR Martin signs five-year, eight-figure deal for more HBO projects

Game of Thrones author also has a Netflix film on the way, but there is still no word of his finishing the fantasy series that made his name

Is one of them this? I'd be more interested in it than a GoT spinoff.

[tabascoboy]

This is one of them



https://www.tor.com/2021/03/03/gore-ver ... s-netflix/