So, coronavirus...

[Dogbert]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tudy-finds

Researchers said results highlight the need to continue with face coverings, social distancing and handwashing alongside vaccine programmes

Public health or non-pharmaceutical interventions are known to be beneficial in fighting respiratory infections like flu, and countries around the world have tried using them to curb the spread of Covid.

However, until now, reviews have not been robust enough to allow experts to make firm conclusions about the effectiveness of such measures in tackling Covid.

Results from more than 30 studies from around the world were analysed in detail, showing a statistically significant 53% reduction in the incidence of Covid with mask wearing and a 25% reduction with physical distancing.

Handwashing also indicated a substantial 53% reduction in Covid incidence, although this was not statistically significant after adjusting for the small number of handwashing studies included.

Jesus Guys , Just wear a fucking mask

[Ymx]

I got pinged today. Lateral flow negative. Did a drive through PCR so I guess tomorrow will find out. Family friends of daughters school we saw in weekend.

Not been asked to isolate as double jabbed. And clearly it’s not Omicron.

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

[Slick]

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

[FalseBayFC]

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

NZ have done brilliantly to sustain the containment effort for so long. Our population very quickly got fatigued and lost interest. Very different circumstances though. But the buy in to vaccination and the levels of social and political trust is super impressive.

[Gumboot]

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

NZ have done brilliantly to sustain the containment effort for so long. Our population very quickly got fatigued and lost interest. Very different circumstances though. But the buy in to vaccination and the levels of social and political trust is super impressive.

That, and no land borders.

[petej]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tudy-finds

Researchers said results highlight the need to continue with face coverings, social distancing and handwashing alongside vaccine programmes

Public health or non-pharmaceutical interventions are known to be beneficial in fighting respiratory infections like flu, and countries around the world have tried using them to curb the spread of Covid.

However, until now, reviews have not been robust enough to allow experts to make firm conclusions about the effectiveness of such measures in tackling Covid.

Results from more than 30 studies from around the world were analysed in detail, showing a statistically significant 53% reduction in the incidence of Covid with mask wearing and a 25% reduction with physical distancing.

Handwashing also indicated a substantial 53% reduction in Covid incidence, although this was not statistically significant after adjusting for the small number of handwashing studies included.

Jesus Guys , Just wear a fucking mask

Please read the paper not the guardian article of which the author should be ashamed. 6 studies in the mask wearing section and "Risk of bias across the six studies ranged from moderate to serious or critical". I loath the reporting of the single number 53% as well.

[Ymx]

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

Indeed. My first brush with it. The text you get also gives you a fright and pretty much tells you you have to isolate. It’s only when you click through and enter details it says you don’t.


rain animated gif

It’s utter shite as it actually asks you how many doses you’ve had, and asks you the dates. It doesn’t look up your records.

[JM2K6]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

[Paddington Bear]

Don't know about anyone else but Omnicron has taken an absolute hatchet to Christmas socialising already. Feel really bad for pubs and restaurants who have probably already ordered a lot of their stock.

[dpedin]

Don't know about anyone else but Omnicron has taken an absolute hatchet to Christmas socialising already. Feel really bad for pubs and restaurants who have probably already ordered a lot of their stock.

Gov has really wasted time and resources over the last 18 months and have now got all the messaging completely confused again. For example it might have been useful to have supported/funded bars and restaurants over last 12 months getting some proper HEPA ventilation in place during the summer in preparation for the winter months. If they had a coherent communications strategy, maintained the simple PH mitigations that everyone knows work and got covid rates down lower when they could have then the public perception might have been different and confidence in Gov guidance might be higher. As it is no-one really knows what the Blonde Bumblecunt's strategy is, his Norman Collier style briefings have been disastrous and usually end up with ministers and others scrambling to clarify and correct him in the hours and days afterwards. As a result the public have sussed out that the BB's guidance is just a nonsense and have lost confidence in them. End result is the reaction we are seeing now with public fear over Omicron and folk retreating into their homes. Sad but fully understandable.

[Biffer]

My understanding of masks, other than high-grade medical ones, is that they protect other people more than the wearer. So I wear mine as a sort of I’ll look after you if you look after me thing. Fat load of good it does sometimes.

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

To claim for certain that anything is clear about the new variant is a massive misunderstanding of the science.

[Marylandolorian]

Karma! An other christian conservative vax opponent gooone.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 820884002/

[Biffer]

Karma! An other christian conservative vax opponent gooone.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 820884002/

There’s a whole thread of these guys on the Herman Cain Award subreddit.

This guy is particularly prominent though - his broadcasting has probably cost hundreds of lives.

[Ymx]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

[JM2K6]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

[dpedin]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

We use PH mitigations to slow down the community transmission of infectious diseases and ultimately to try and get it down to as low as possible so as to eliminate it or, as you say, to buy time and minimise harm whilst we develop and roll out vaccinations or medications/therapeutic interventions that will minimise harm and death. For example NHS England have a published strategy for the elimination of measles and rubella that was published in 2019. Whilst a different virus and one that has been around a long time it is far more transmissible than covid - it has an r of 16 to 18. For some populations it decimated them when first introduced and there was no immunity ie many of the south sea islands. Problem with covid is it is novel and we need to do the many decades of work we did for measles in a matter of months! Good news is we have the science and technology to have been pretty successful and we need to continue to protect the population ie wearing masks, until we extend roll out of the vaccines - as we do now with the MMR vaccine which has c95% coverage and is sufficient to control community transmission - unless you have some Wakefield anti- vexer twats not immunising their kids!

[Rinkals]

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

I was careful not to say that you were anti-mask, but you have repeated a claim I hear quite often; namely that masks are only useful in that they show that the wearer is an obedient and compliant sheep.

[SaintK]

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

I was careful not to say that you were anti-mask, but you have repeated a claim I hear quite often; namely that masks are only useful in that they show that the wearer is an obedient and compliant sheep.

Copyright: Bimboman Planet Rugby Forum

[Sandstorm]

Shit! Girl who sits opposite me at work has tested positive. Confirmed by PCR this afternoon.

[Rinkals]

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

I was careful not to say that you were anti-mask, but you have repeated a claim I hear quite often; namely that masks are only useful in that they show that the wearer is an obedient and compliant sheep.

Copyright: Bimboman Planet Rugby Forum

I don't know if you remember, but I had endless discussions on the efficacy of masks with Raggs (and others) on PR back in the day.

I suppose he was reluctant to embrace the theory without backup evidence. I'm pleased to say that he is now firmly behind mask as preventative measure.

[dpedin]

Over 50,000 cases and 141 deaths today in UK. Trend over last few days is not a good one!

[Ymx]

petej continuing his crusade I see.



It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

[JM2K6]

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

[fishfoodie]

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

The problem is that it's essentially impossible to prove a negative; so no-one can say that wearing masks saved a million lives; or whatever.

... and lets face it; even if the could; these contrarian dickheads would find some other excuse.

[Slick]

No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

The problem is that it's essentially impossible to prove a negative; so no-one can say that wearing masks saved a million lives; or whatever.

... and lets face it; even if the could; these contrarian dickheads would find some other excuse.

That last sentence is bang on. It’s the utter confidence these people have that does my head in

[petej]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

The mitigations will slow the spread but to what end, more and more mitigations for a disease that is less and less harmful? For me the balance/risk has shifted and mitigations that were worthwhile pre vaccines and delta & omicron increasingly aren't worth it now, though the masking doesn't really bother me. Anyone suggesting shutting down schools or nurseries or making people test or mask 4 year olds and younger can fuck right off. The end is obviously the virus being endemic and that we are all going to get it multiple times in our lifetimes. The biggest risk is when we first get it and are immune naive. I can appreciate governments being cautious (shame that ours wasn't more so when it really should have been).

The out competing delta is interesting considering the SA delta wave had peaked ages go meaning it is likely that it's pure Rcurrent will be considerably different its R0 value or whatever you wish to call it. Omicron could have a lower R0 value than delta but a higher Rcurrent value due to its immunity evasion. If the omicron Rcurrent ends up being lower in highly vaccinated countries it is a bit of blow to the natural immunity is superior lot as SA has low vaccination and more "natural" immunity.

By R0 I mean how it would spread in a population that had no immunity at all.

[Ymx]

The early data had shown the omicron to be much steeper than the delta first wave.

COVID-19: Emerging picture from South Africa suggests Omicron variant could be real cause for concern

New data shows that the Omicron wave is much steeper than the Delta wave that hit South Africa - and hospitalisations are now rising in Gauteng province.

by Tom Clarke, Science and technology editor @aTomClarke
Thursday 2 December 2021 13:08, UK
The variant was first detected in South Africa
Image:

The variant was first detected in South Africa

Don't be distracted by headlines saying the Omicron variant might be less deadly than Delta. More worrying pictures are starting to emerge from South Africa.

…

However … and at odds with above … but also sky

COVID-19: South Africa doctors see 'skyrocketing' cases in vaccinated and unvaccinated but symptoms 'mild' in Omicron hotspot

GPs confirm the observations of World Health Organisation officials that, so far, the new variant of COVID-19 presents mainly mild symptoms but say it is too early to know if the virus will not be more severe in its later stages.

By Philip Whiteside, international news reporter, and Mukelwa Hlatshwayo, Africa producer
Thursday 2 December 2021 20:43, UK

People queue to be vaccinated against COVID-19 at a hospital near Johannesburg, in the Omicron hotspot of Gauteng province, South Africa. Pic: AP
Image:
People queue to be vaccinated against COVID-19 at a hospital near Johannesburg, in the Omicron hotspot of Gauteng province. Pic: AP
Doctors treating people in the region of South Africa where Omicron is surging have told Sky News they have seen a rise in the number of patients being reinfected and vaccinated patients catching COVID-19.

Rates in the Gauteng region, particularly around Pretoria, have rocketed in the last few weeks as the Omicron variant has started to replace Delta nationwide.

But the GPs Sky spoke to confirmed reports from the World Health Organisation that in most cases, so far, those affected by South Africa's fourth wave of COVID are presenting "mild" symptoms, rather than severe ones.

Dr Sheri Fanaroff, a GP at a private practice and founder of the Gauteng GPs Collective, said: "What we are seeing are a lot of patients getting infected again, both vaccinated and unvaccinated patients.

So far, the infections we are seeing are very mild. I am not aware of any patients with severe illness at the moment," said the doctor, whose patients are "mostly all vaccinated".

"I am sure there are some but on the ground, at the moment, people are presenting… with sore throats, coughing with fevers, with body pain… viral type of symptoms," she added.

"It is still too early to make an assumption because with other strains we saw… more severe illness [occurs] in the second or third week.

"I have an 80-year-old with underlying cardiac disease, he is not well generally. He is on day seven of COVID and doing quite well. All my elderly patients have something… so far they are mild which is the same as what I am hearing from other GPs on the ground in Johannesburg."

Her observations were echoed by Dr Bhadrashil Modi, another GP, whose practice is in downtown Johannesburg, another city in Gauteng.

He told Sky News: "There has been an increase week on week.
…

[Ymx]

Hmmm, reading the top article a bit more and this guys Twitter feed, I think he’s not reporting in a very balanced way.

The top article are his opinions, the second article is that of the doctors in the region.

Here’s the rise in hospitalisations from his article.

[petej]

Paper on boosters.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext

[Calculon]

petej continuing his crusade I see.



It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

The mitigations will slow the spread but to what end, more and more mitigations for a disease that is less and less harmful? For me the balance/risk has shifted and mitigations that were worthwhile pre vaccines and delta & omicron increasingly aren't worth it now, though the masking doesn't really bother me. Anyone suggesting shutting down schools or nurseries or making people test or mask 4 year olds and younger can fuck right off. The end is obviously the virus being endemic and that we are all going to get it multiple times in our lifetimes. The biggest risk is when we first get it and are immune naive. I can appreciate governments being cautious (shame that ours wasn't more so when it really should have been).

The out competing delta is interesting considering the SA delta wave had peaked ages go meaning it is likely that it's pure Rcurrent will be considerably different its R0 value or whatever you wish to call it. Omicron could have a lower R0 value than delta but a higher Rcurrent value due to its immunity evasion. If the omicron Rcurrent ends up being lower in highly vaccinated countries it is a bit of blow to the natural immunity is superior lot as SA has low vaccination and more "natural" immunity.

By R0 I mean how it would spread in a population that had no immunity at all.

Ro assumes complete susceptibility in a population so you are talking about R or Rt. The Rt of Omicron is extremely high in SA at the moment but the reasons it might be lower in somewhere like the UK is more complex than just vaccination rate. Many other factors in play, maybe also one of them the fact that omicron took of in SA when there were only a couple of hundred daily infections from Delta, while the UK has 50000 daily Delta infections at the time that Omicron is trying to establish itself there. Completely agree with your fist paragraph, I would add travel bans to the list of things that can fuck off. I have a friend here who has been unable to see her little girl for nearly two years thanks to a travel ban.

[Tichtheid]

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

The problem is that it's essentially impossible to prove a negative; so no-one can say that wearing masks saved a million lives; or whatever.

... and lets face it; even if the could; these contrarian dickheads would find some other excuse.

That last sentence is bang on. It’s the utter confidence these people have that does my head in

I have to admit to becoming fascinated with the covid thread on PR, I don't know why, I never posted there or even read the forum very often, I was put off whenever I did read it.

However reading the contortionist way some of them find to "back up" their claims which were proven to be false at the time and continue to be proven wrong, it jut amazes me how they can be so impervious to evidence.

dpedin posts good stuff and the character who is banned from here and others are like the wall you'd hit a tennis ball against.

[Tichtheid]

I just had my booster at a drop in vaccination centre, I say centre, it is a gazebo at the side of a church.

I read this article whilst I was in the queue, it's good news, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... rial-finds

[FalseBayFC]

I just had my booster at a drop in vaccination centre, I say centre, it is a gazebo at the side of a church.

I read this article whilst I was in the queue, it's good news, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... rial-finds

I'm cautiously optimistic that it will have the same effect against the Omicron variant. My daughter who is a health sciences student has just had her J&J booster here in Cape Town. In the new year she starts working on the wards with recovering Covid patients for her prac work. I'll get my booster as soon as they offer it to my cohort.

[tabascoboy]

Booster tomorrow

[Biffer]

Although the number of cases in Scotland has been broadly steady for weeks now, which isn't great, the numbers in hospital and ICU have fallen. About 650 in hospital and 45 in ICU across the country. Compares to about 1000 and 100 in September, and 2000 / 150 last winter.

[tc27]

Be interesting to see if anymore clarity about the outbreak of Omicron in Scotland comes forward - the first cluster all linked to a single event which cant be named for some reason.

At least its stop the dog whistles about it coming from England I guess.

[sturginho]

Booster tomorrow

me too

[Sandstorm]

Booster tomorrow

me too

+1

[convoluted]

covid politics.jpg (39.26 KiB) Viewed 1297 times

[JM2K6]