Another mass shooting in the US

[Marylandolorian]

You don't think that the US is irrevocably divided?

Not at all. Not much more so than say labour and conservative supporters in the UK. Or the National Front and Socialists and Macrons crowd in France. .

The US is also powering ahead in the most important area which is technology and human capital.

Sorry but this is BS.

This country has never been so divided maybe since 1864. When you see the hate between people and pro trump's "patriots " wearing t-shirts with I rather be Russian than democrat, you know that things will get worse.

[Tichtheid]

I can understand possesing maybe 3 different guns - one each of a pistol, shotgun and some kind of rifle. These stockpiles that could supply a battalion are fucking weird.

I could understand having one gun if I needed to protect my livestock from natural predators or put down a beast or two - I've had to do this with sheep, I used the farm's shotgun.

I've shot rabbits that were still there after gassing the warrens on several farms, but I've never owned a gun.

There is no reason to own a gun other than as a tool, if your workplace doesn't need it, then you shouldn't have it.

[fishfoodie]

I can understand possesing maybe 3 different guns - one each of a pistol, shotgun and some kind of rifle. These stockpiles that could supply a battalion are fucking weird.

I could understand having one gun if I needed to protect my livestock from natural predators or put down a beast or two - I've had to do this with sheep, I used the farm's shotgun.

I've shot rabbits that were still there after gassing the warrens on several farms, but I've never owned a gun.

There is no reason to own a gun other than as a tool, if your workplace doesn't need it, then you shouldn't have it.

I can't agree with that.

There's plenty of legitimate sport shooting; & target shooting is quite fun, even to someone who isn't a gun nut; but the types of guns for sport & target shooting aren't the problem; the problem with gun violence is predominantly handguns; & in mass shootings, it's military weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't be allow anything more deadly than bad breath.

[Tichtheid]

I can understand possesing maybe 3 different guns - one each of a pistol, shotgun and some kind of rifle. These stockpiles that could supply a battalion are fucking weird.

I could understand having one gun if I needed to protect my livestock from natural predators or put down a beast or two - I've had to do this with sheep, I used the farm's shotgun.

I've shot rabbits that were still there after gassing the warrens on several farms, but I've never owned a gun.

There is no reason to own a gun other than as a tool, if your workplace doesn't need it, then you shouldn't have it.

I can't agree with that.

There's plenty of legitimate sport shooting; & target shooting is quite fun, even to someone who isn't a gun nut; but the types of guns for sport & target shooting aren't the problem; the problem with gun violence is predominantly handguns; & in mass shootings, it's military weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't be allow anything more deadly than bad breath.

Couldn't the same fulfilment in target shooting be met with archery? In fact I would say there is far more to archery than shooting at a target with any kind of gun.

Why is shooting at a target with an air rifle different, if it's really about the marksmanship?

[Raggs]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

[Tichtheid]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

To my mind archery is more like playing a violin and having to deal with the bow and where to place your fingers on the instrument - it's very difficult.
Shooting a gun at a target is way less challenging, and perhaps more attractive to those not prepared to work at it.

I know it's not the same. I've shot rifles and shotguns, but if we are talking about ways to stop murders, then giving up the recoil and sense of power to focussing on the marksmanship is worthwhile imo

[Kawazaki]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

You touch on the only way I can see the USA getting itself out of the mess they're in. Don't go after the guns, that horse has bolted. Just go after the gunpowder. Restrict/ban it, whatever but throttling the manufacture of bullets will eventually lower gun deaths in the US.

A mate of mine used to be a serious crime officer in the Met and he said that in London getting hold of a gun was relatively easy if you were a criminal and new the right places to ask. The real struggle was getting hold of any ammunition to load them with.

Of course the above relies on Americans becoming as repulsed by mass shootings as the rest of the world is.

[Raggs]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

To my mind archery is more like playing a violin and having to deal with the bow and where to place your fingers on the instrument - it's very difficult.
Shooting a gun at a target is way less challenging, and perhaps more attractive to those not prepared to work at it.

I know it's not the same. I've shot rifles and shotguns, but if we are talking about ways to stop murders, then giving up the recoil and sense of power to focussing on the marksmanship is worthwhile imo

Archery is too different to be accessible to many. The physical requirements alone produce very different requirements from the shooter. I don't think it's a reasonable replacement.

[Kawazaki]

Nerf guns

[TB63]

[mat the expat]

Archery is too different to be accessible to many. The physical requirements alone produce very different requirements from the shooter. I don't think it's a reasonable replacement.

No it isn't - it's a very varied sport - I practice two different variants and there are all body types involved. Disabled Archery is huge.

[Raggs]

Archery is too different to be accessible to many. The physical requirements alone produce very different requirements from the shooter. I don't think it's a reasonable replacement.

No it isn't - it's a very varied sport - I practice two different variants and there are all body types involved. Disabled Archery is huge.

My error then. Do you get blind archery? I would imagine it's possible but wonder how it's done exactly.

If you are unable to draw the bow, is there a huge difference between disabled archery and shooting a rifle?

[sockwithaticket]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

You touch on the only way I can see the USA getting itself out of the mess they're in. Don't go after the guns, that horse has bolted. Just go after the gunpowder. Restrict/ban it, whatever but throttling the manufacture of bullets will eventually lower gun deaths in the US.

A mate of mine used to be a serious crime officer in the Met and he said that in London getting hold of a gun was relatively easy if you were a criminal and new the right places to ask. The real struggle was getting hold of any ammunition to load them with.

Of course the above relies on Americans becoming as repulsed by mass shootings as the rest of the world is.

Chris Rock has an old stand up bit about making bullets $5000 each. With the number of guns out there, ammunition control probably is one of the easier (relatively speaking) things to attempt. I'm sure some of these nutters have plenty stockpiled, though.

[Rinkals]

You don't think that the US is irrevocably divided?

Not at all. Not much more so than say labour and conservative supporters in the UK. Or the National Front and Socialists and Macrons crowd in France. .

The US is also powering ahead in the most important area which is technology and human capital.

Sorry but this is BS.

This country has never been so divided maybe since 1864. When you see the hate between people and pro trump's "patriots " wearing t-shirts with I rather be Russian than democrat, you know that things will get worse.

My Twitter feeds are inundated with Trump supporters saying "Trump was right".

It's hard to know whether there are that many Trump supporters or whether it's bots, but 74 million voters voted for the fucker and a large percentage of them cannot bring themselves to believe that he lost the election.

Given the inclination for gun violence, surely what Trump is doing is at least as serious as the trope of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded cinema?

Still, I'm not American and if they want to burn their own house down, I suppose it's up to them.

It does have implications for Western Democracy, though.

[Tichtheid]

Archery is too different to be accessible to many. The physical requirements alone produce very different requirements from the shooter. I don't think it's a reasonable replacement.

No it isn't - it's a very varied sport - I practice two different variants and there are all body types involved. Disabled Archery is huge.

My error then. Do you get blind archery? I would imagine it's possible but wonder how it's done exactly.

If you are unable to draw the bow, is there a huge difference between disabled archery and shooting a rifle?

There is a large care home for blind veterans just outside Brighton. I’ve seen them doing archery.

[FalseBayFC]

I can understand possesing maybe 3 different guns - one each of a pistol, shotgun and some kind of rifle. These stockpiles that could supply a battalion are fucking weird.

I could understand having one gun if I needed to protect my livestock from natural predators or put down a beast or two - I've had to do this with sheep, I used the farm's shotgun.

I've shot rabbits that were still there after gassing the warrens on several farms, but I've never owned a gun.

There is no reason to own a gun other than as a tool, if your workplace doesn't need it, then you shouldn't have it.

I have several shotguns and rifles for hunting . I also carry one for self defence, have done for twenty years. My job takes me to remote rural areas and when I am back on the family farm we are always not far from a firearm.

[Raggs]

No it isn't - it's a very varied sport - I practice two different variants and there are all body types involved. Disabled Archery is huge.

My error then. Do you get blind archery? I would imagine it's possible but wonder how it's done exactly.

If you are unable to draw the bow, is there a huge difference between disabled archery and shooting a rifle?

There is a large care home for blind veterans just outside Brighton. I’ve seen them doing archery.

I'm sure but I'm wondering how. A bell on the target? The rifle shooting method of different sounds depending on where on the target you are pointing wouldn't work on a weapon that experiences a large amount of drop.

[Tichtheid]

My error then. Do you get blind archery? I would imagine it's possible but wonder how it's done exactly.

If you are unable to draw the bow, is there a huge difference between disabled archery and shooting a rifle?

There is a large care home for blind veterans just outside Brighton. I’ve seen them doing archery.

I'm sure but I'm wondering how. A bell on the target? The rifle shooting method of different sounds depending on where on the target you are pointing wouldn't work on a weapon that experiences a large amount of drop.

https://www.bbsarchery.org.uk/

[Kawazaki]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

You touch on the only way I can see the USA getting itself out of the mess they're in. Don't go after the guns, that horse has bolted. Just go after the gunpowder. Restrict/ban it, whatever but throttling the manufacture of bullets will eventually lower gun deaths in the US.

A mate of mine used to be a serious crime officer in the Met and he said that in London getting hold of a gun was relatively easy if you were a criminal and new the right places to ask. The real struggle was getting hold of any ammunition to load them with.

Of course the above relies on Americans becoming as repulsed by mass shootings as the rest of the world is.

Chris Rock has an old stand up bit about making bullets $5000 each. With the number of guns out there, ammunition control probably is one of the easier (relatively speaking) things to attempt. I'm sure some of these nutters have plenty stockpiled, though.

Doesn't gunpowder lose its potency with age though?

[FalseBayFC]

You touch on the only way I can see the USA getting itself out of the mess they're in. Don't go after the guns, that horse has bolted. Just go after the gunpowder. Restrict/ban it, whatever but throttling the manufacture of bullets will eventually lower gun deaths in the US.

A mate of mine used to be a serious crime officer in the Met and he said that in London getting hold of a gun was relatively easy if you were a criminal and new the right places to ask. The real struggle was getting hold of any ammunition to load them with.

Of course the above relies on Americans becoming as repulsed by mass shootings as the rest of the world is.

Chris Rock has an old stand up bit about making bullets $5000 each. With the number of guns out there, ammunition control probably is one of the easier (relatively speaking) things to attempt. I'm sure some of these nutters have plenty stockpiled, though.

Doesn't gunpowder lose its potency with age though?

Nope, if kept dry and in dark cool conditions it lasts decades.

[fishfoodie]

Archery, no.

Air guns vs regular is also different. But if you're a target shooter there's no reason for the weapon to be anywhere but locked up at the range.

Or potentially all ammo at ranges so you can take your weapon to a variety of locations.

To my mind archery is more like playing a violin and having to deal with the bow and where to place your fingers on the instrument - it's very difficult.
Shooting a gun at a target is way less challenging, and perhaps more attractive to those not prepared to work at it.

I know it's not the same. I've shot rifles and shotguns, but if we are talking about ways to stop murders, then giving up the recoil and sense of power to focussing on the marksmanship is worthwhile imo

I'd go with a crossbow so; the AR-15 of archery

[tabascoboy]

WTAF

San Jose shooting: Guns, petrol and 22,000 rounds of ammunition found

[fishfoodie]

WTAF

San Jose shooting: Guns, petrol and 22,000 rounds of ammunition found

They've updated it to 25,000 rounds now.That's ~300kg if they're 9mm, & tens of thousands of dollars worth of ammo this nutjob had.

I hope California just go straight out & defy the fucking idiocy of the 2nd amendment, & require a Psyc evaluation for gun owners.

A "well regulated Militia"; doesn't cover fuckers like this !; & to ensure a "well regulated Militia", a Psyc evaluation seems a reasonable first step; before selling someone any weapon beyond a rifle, or shotgun.

[mat the expat]

Archery is too different to be accessible to many. The physical requirements alone produce very different requirements from the shooter. I don't think it's a reasonable replacement.

No it isn't - it's a very varied sport - I practice two different variants and there are all body types involved. Disabled Archery is huge.

My error then. Do you get blind archery? I would imagine it's possible but wonder how it's done exactly.

If you are unable to draw the bow, is there a huge difference between disabled archery and shooting a rifle?

Yes, wheelchair and also people with missing/no limbs are all involved. I'm pretty sure I've seen a paraplegic person do Horse archery as well

My mum still shoots a bow after a doctor told her she would never draw a bow again

Rifle shooting is simple in comparison (I've done plenty of that as well)

[Raggs]

It's definitely simpler but it's a different discipline. I'm not trying to argue one better or worse than the other. Merely that i don't think it's a reasonable replacement sport.

[sorCrer]

Another. Men opened fire on a banquet hall in Miami killing 2 and injuring 25+

[ScarfaceClaw]

Always tip your waiter. Thoughts and prayers etc. If the maitre d’ was armed and so on…

[Tichtheid]

Judge rules California's ban on assault weapons unconstitutional


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ju ... l-n1269725


‘“Like the Swiss Army Knife, the popular AR-15 rifle is a perfect combination of home defense weapon and homeland defense equipment," he wrote in Friday's decision.’

Like the humble toaster, a flame thrower is an invaluable kitchen implement

[fishfoodie]

Technically not a mass shooting; but illustrative of the non-existent control of deadly weapons.

DEKALB COUNTY, GA. — A triple shooting at a DeKalb County grocery store in Georgia has left a cashier dead and a deputy and the gunman injured

...

The incident started when a man walked into the store and refused to put on a mask.

“I have a friend who works in this store and I think it was her who got shot and it’s just really sad,” witness Marquisha White said. “I don’t know what the world is coming to -- period.”

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said the cashier told Victor Lee Tucker, Jr., 30, of Palmetto, to put on a mask and that’s when the chaos unfolded.

“Tucker left the store without making his purchase, but immediately returned inside. Tucker walked directly back to the cashier, pulled out a handgun and shot her,” the GBI said in a news release.

“The deputy returned fire, shooting the suspect who has also been transported to a local hospital,” said DeKalb County Sherriff Melody Maddox.

The GBI said two DeKalb County police officers arrested Tucker as he was attempting to crawl out the front door of the store.

Fernandes spoke with owner of Big Bear, who did not give his name.

He said he hired and off-duty deputy to help enforce the mask policy at the store.

After Monday’s triple shooting, he said he may not allow customers to carry any guns inside the store anymore.

“How come they carry all the guns in a public place like that?” he asked, calling the practice “bad.”

People who frequent the store say the gunman is well known at Big Bear and they believe he may have some mental health issues.

Tucker was taken to Grady Memorial Hospital where he was last listed as being in stable condition.

Another cashier was also grazed by a bullet. She was treated at the scene.

The deputy was taken to Atlanta Medical Center where he was last listed as being in stable condition.

So everyone knew he was disturbed; but it was still able to get a gun, & the locals are such cunts; that the store owner felt it necessary to hire armed guards to make them wear masks.

[Rinkals]

Not a mass shooting, but another example of bad behaviour by American cops.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... i-20210616

Myeni's family's lawyer, Bridget Morgan-Bickerton, said the Honolulu Police Department (HPD) received and reviewed the Ring Video Doorbell recordings of the night Myeni was killed.

"They show a very different story from the one [the] HPD has disseminated to the public. [The] HPD fought the release of these recordings and even tried to block Myeni's widow, Lindsay, from subpoenaing the videos directly from the owner of 91 Coelho Way [where the shooting occurred].

"HPD has tried to convince the public that this was a burglary and that Myeni was acting erratically, but the doorbell video we have now obtained from the owner shows that HPD knew all along these stories were untrue."

[fishfoodie]

Not a mass shooting, but another example of bad behaviour by American cops.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... i-20210616

Myeni's family's lawyer, Bridget Morgan-Bickerton, said the Honolulu Police Department (HPD) received and reviewed the Ring Video Doorbell recordings of the night Myeni was killed.

"They show a very different story from the one [the] HPD has disseminated to the public. [The] HPD fought the release of these recordings and even tried to block Myeni's widow, Lindsay, from subpoenaing the videos directly from the owner of 91 Coelho Way [where the shooting occurred].

"HPD has tried to convince the public that this was a burglary and that Myeni was acting erratically, but the doorbell video we have now obtained from the owner shows that HPD knew all along these stories were untrue."

It seems to be the default response of Police across the world to getting caught, fucking up. Blame the victim, & do their level best to destroy, or conceal the evidence; & they're aided & abetted by reporters, who depend on a friendly relationship with those same Police, for their living.

Cressida Dick is loathsome example of how well the tactic works

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Not a mass shooting, but another example of bad behaviour by American cops.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... i-20210616

Myeni's family's lawyer, Bridget Morgan-Bickerton, said the Honolulu Police Department (HPD) received and reviewed the Ring Video Doorbell recordings of the night Myeni was killed.

"They show a very different story from the one [the] HPD has disseminated to the public. [The] HPD fought the release of these recordings and even tried to block Myeni's widow, Lindsay, from subpoenaing the videos directly from the owner of 91 Coelho Way [where the shooting occurred].

"HPD has tried to convince the public that this was a burglary and that Myeni was acting erratically, but the doorbell video we have now obtained from the owner shows that HPD knew all along these stories were untrue."

It seems to be the default response of Police across the world to getting caught, fucking up. Blame the victim, & do their level best to destroy, or conceal the evidence; & they're aided & abetted by reporters, who depend on a friendly relationship with those same Police, for their living.

Cressida Dick is loathsome example of how well the tactic works

And to reinforce that, a couple of years ago I was talking to a friend about the Menezes killing and he said "Well, he shouldn't have jumped the barriers then, should he"

That piece of misinformation has survived for far too long, but explains why the default position of the police, when they have fucked up, is to lie through their teeth.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Did he not? I’ll admit my larger ignorance but it was fairly widely presented that he’d skipped through the barrier if not physically jumped them. It’s a genuine comment as I haven’t ever seen anything presented saying that he didn’t. Probably due to me largely just going on what was in the media at the time so I’ll freely admit that I’m not hugely aware of all the details.

[Niegs]

Nerf guns

Airsoft for me! I wouldn't want to look like a geek with the brightly coloured guns and foam darts.

[fishfoodie]

Did he not? I’ll admit my larger ignorance but it was fairly widely presented that he’d skipped through the barrier if not physically jumped them. It’s a genuine comment as I haven’t ever seen anything presented saying that he didn’t. Probably due to me largely just going on what was in the media at the time so I’ll freely admit that I’m not hugely aware of all the details.

Nope, he used his Oyster card; but you like everyone else heard within hours from the media, that he vaulted the barriers; & it took months for some, partial, version of the truth to come out.

The leaked statements from witnesses to the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes refute the account spun to a compliant press in the immediate aftermath of his killing (Reports, August 17). It was claimed he was wearing a heavy jacket, implying he could have been concealing bombs on his body, that he vaulted a barrier, ran from the police and refused to stop.

Now we learn he was wearing a light denim jacket, used his oyster card at Stockwell station, descended to the platform by escalator, had time to pick up a paper and, most damning of all, was being restrained by a surveillance officer when police officers pumped him full of bullets. In addition we are told surveillance broke down when one officer went to relieve himself, that mysteriously and culpably no CCTV cameras were working on Stockwell station just two weeks after 7/7. This is appalling.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/aug ... tionpolicy

And the last line is, probably, one of the biggest lies still in circulation.

The Met seized all the CC coverage, & then after they had it all, they claimed it was all blank, & the only footage was the one camera on the train. The tube operator said they had no indications that there were any issues with the cctv, & given that there would have been people sitting in an office watching the feeds 24x7, I find it rather difficult to believe that they wouldn't know if dozens of cameras failed !

Are you seeing a pattern here ?

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Did he not? I’ll admit my larger ignorance but it was fairly widely presented that he’d skipped through the barrier if not physically jumped them. It’s a genuine comment as I haven’t ever seen anything presented saying that he didn’t. Probably due to me largely just going on what was in the media at the time so I’ll freely admit that I’m not hugely aware of all the details.

From the Stockwell 2 report :

"The footage showed
that Mr de Menezes had walked to the barrier, picked up a newspaper,
used his Oyster card to go though the barrier and had then gone down
an escalator and out of sight"

[Happyhooker]

I had genuinely missed that

[mat the expat]

Nerf guns

Airsoft for me! I wouldn't want to look like a geek with the brightly coloured guns and foam darts.

Some of the airsoft shops in Tokyo are immense - complete with Miniguns, Barret .50 Cal rifles etc.

Oddly, legal in the UK but banned in Oz

[Niegs]

Some of the airsoft shops in Tokyo are immense - complete with Miniguns, Barret .50 Cal rifles etc.

Oddly, legal in the UK but banned in Oz

Is it because the look very realistic? I think some states/provinces on this side of the pond don't even require the orange tip to say it's not a real gun (or do for sale/transport, but not when you're the owner)

[mat the expat]

Some of the airsoft shops in Tokyo are immense - complete with Miniguns, Barret .50 Cal rifles etc.

Oddly, legal in the UK but banned in Oz

Is it because the look very realistic? I think some states/provinces on this side of the pond don't even require the orange tip to say it's not a real gun (or do for sale/transport, but not when you're the owner)

It's weird as the UK has much stricter gun laws than Oz

There is some epic YouTube if WW2 GIs Vs Jerries in a Scottish pine forest out there