NPR

Ted. wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:23 pm

Niegs wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:53 pm

Ted. wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:12 pm

Why do you feel compelled to encourage them to get rid of their stuff, Neig? Who is it harming?

That's a fair point, it's no 'harm'. Maybe it's the millennial in me, but I don't see the point in keeping unused/non-sentimental that are just gathering dust. I get if you have something on display and it's decor, or a cherished heirloom to be passed down (most is not, and neither my bro nor I would want any more than one or two things... maybe his kids might be interested in the rest when they're older?).

If your father is a potterer or has a hobby, I can fully understand why he would want to keep stuff around. My father did so, as do I. I concede it's not something that can/should be done in a flat, though.

No, auto restoration is his hobby. Part of 'their' idea to move is that he wants a bigger garage. (But also a single story house with a bit more space for when they get older and less mobile.)

Ymx wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:50 am Gen X
Shut the fvck up the two of you.

I concur with my fellow X-er.

Niegs wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:53 pm On your last point, I know all of my friends with young ones are determined to raise them as they were raised (late 70s, early 80s babies, raised by parents whose parents went through the Great Depression). Tough love, earn things through chores and good behaviour, an appreciation for work and self-sufficiency, limited screen time + max outside time, etc.

Broadly speaking that is what my wife and I have been aiming for with our teenage kids.

I think that screen time has massively infringed upon other extra curricula pursuits for many kids such as cycling, impromptu sporting activities, reading, board games and such and we strive to strike a reasonable balance between sedentary and outdoors activities.

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:18 pm

Niegs wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:53 pm On your last point, I know all of my friends with young ones are determined to raise them as they were raised (late 70s, early 80s babies, raised by parents whose parents went through the Great Depression). Tough love, earn things through chores and good behaviour, an appreciation for work and self-sufficiency, limited screen time + max outside time, etc.

Broadly speaking that is what my wife and I have been aiming for with our teenage kids.

I think that screen time has massively infringed upon other extra curricula pursuits for many kids such as cycling, impromptu sporting activities, reading, board games and such and we strive to strike a reasonable balance between sedentary and outdoors activities.

Plus smoking and shoplifting

My family is gen X vs Zoomers. One of my daughter listens to Pearl Jam and Soundgarden and thinks it achingly cool. I approve of her choice. The other one practices Tiktok dances all day and looks like a complete lunatic. I've started buying CD's at thrift shops and growing a handle bar mustache. I've ordered a Pixies t-shirt and now don't give a fuck about what people think of me. Gen X is the greatest post war generation.

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:18 pm

Niegs wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:53 pm On your last point, I know all of my friends with young ones are determined to raise them as they were raised (late 70s, early 80s babies, raised by parents whose parents went through the Great Depression). Tough love, earn things through chores and good behaviour, an appreciation for work and self-sufficiency, limited screen time + max outside time, etc.

Broadly speaking that is what my wife and I have been aiming for with our teenage kids.

I think that screen time has massively infringed upon other extra curricula pursuits for many kids such as cycling, impromptu sporting activities, reading, board games and such and we strive to strike a reasonable balance between sedentary and outdoors activities.

Actually, on that note I think I am going to take further steps this year to de-digitize my own life. I got rid of facebook a few years ago and have been happy that I did so. I deleted twitter at the turn of the year and I think I am going to start using cash more frequently and plastic only as a last resort.

A lot of technology is just unhelpful and gives you more stress and anxiety.

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:22 am One of the things I have observed is that boomers tend to like a drink. In contrast millenials seem to be more into coffee.

The legacy the boomers are leaving is an interesting one to consider - collectively they did not treat the nuclear family and marriage with the kind of reverence that prior generations did and I fear that has had far reaching consequences for society. Personally speaking both my wife and I's parents divorced and subsequently remarried and we see it as our parental duty to restore our families back to the traditional "till death do us part" type of marriage dynamic. In addition to the expected step parent challenges the eight grandparents thing is a bit of a mess if I'm being honest.

that is quite an interesting take, I am not sure reverence is correct. I think people realised they weren't trapped like they used to be. Although I agree it has a big effect on society.

Openside wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 am

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:22 am One of the things I have observed is that boomers tend to like a drink. In contrast millenials seem to be more into coffee.

The legacy the boomers are leaving is an interesting one to consider - collectively they did not treat the nuclear family and marriage with the kind of reverence that prior generations did and I fear that has had far reaching consequences for society. Personally speaking both my wife and I's parents divorced and subsequently remarried and we see it as our parental duty to restore our families back to the traditional "till death do us part" type of marriage dynamic. In addition to the expected step parent challenges the eight grandparents thing is a bit of a mess if I'm being honest.

that is quite an interesting take, I am not sure reverence is correct. I think people realised they weren't trapped like they used to be. Although I agree it has a big effect on society.

My take would be there was a confluence of realising you weren't trapped combined with there still being the family pressure to marry. I don't think as a rule millennials are as a rule under huge pressure to settle down and have kids (not least because not that many of us have the assets that come with settling down traditionally).

Openside wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 am

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:22 am One of the things I have observed is that boomers tend to like a drink. In contrast millenials seem to be more into coffee.

The legacy the boomers are leaving is an interesting one to consider - collectively they did not treat the nuclear family and marriage with the kind of reverence that prior generations did and I fear that has had far reaching consequences for society. Personally speaking both my wife and I's parents divorced and subsequently remarried and we see it as our parental duty to restore our families back to the traditional "till death do us part" type of marriage dynamic. In addition to the expected step parent challenges the eight grandparents thing is a bit of a mess if I'm being honest.

that is quite an interesting take, I am not sure reverence is correct. I think people realised they weren't trapped like they used to be. Although I agree it has a big effect on society.

We (my gf and I, both early/mid 30s) are still working towards the concept of a "nuclear family" but we don't see marriage as a neccesary part of that. Both sets of parents are seperated so we look at marriage mostly as a large money sink (probably more so on the way out, if it comes to that).

Housing is probably the biggest issue for our generation and although weddings can be done on the cheap, we're choosing to concentrate our finances on creating a home for ourselves an, hopefully, our family.

The only realy benefit we see to marriage (as opposed to a wedding and the pomp that goes with it) is for the minimal financial benefits. If we're fortunate enough to need to manage inheritance tax or something then we would probably get married on paper, but aside from that we think there's better ways to benefit our family.

I suppose that's the biggest difference I've seen in my social group compared to our parents. Particularly when weddings have been continually postponed over the last year, more people are starting to question if there's really any point in it at all (aside from your kids being called bastards!).

MoreOrLess wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:11 am

Openside wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 am

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:22 am One of the things I have observed is that boomers tend to like a drink. In contrast millenials seem to be more into coffee.

The legacy the boomers are leaving is an interesting one to consider - collectively they did not treat the nuclear family and marriage with the kind of reverence that prior generations did and I fear that has had far reaching consequences for society. Personally speaking both my wife and I's parents divorced and subsequently remarried and we see it as our parental duty to restore our families back to the traditional "till death do us part" type of marriage dynamic. In addition to the expected step parent challenges the eight grandparents thing is a bit of a mess if I'm being honest.

that is quite an interesting take, I am not sure reverence is correct. I think people realised they weren't trapped like they used to be. Although I agree it has a big effect on society.

We (my gf and I, both early/mid 30s) are still working towards the concept of a "nuclear family" but we don't see marriage as a neccesary part of that. Both sets of parents are seperated so we look at marriage mostly as a large money sink (probably more so on the way out, if it comes to that).

Housing is probably the biggest issue for our generation and although weddings can be done on the cheap, we're choosing to concentrate our finances on creating a home for ourselves an, hopefully, our family.


The only realy benefit we see to marriage (as opposed to a wedding and the pomp that goes with it) is for the minimal financial benefits. If we're fortunate enough to need to manage inheritance tax or something then we would probably get married on paper, but aside from that we think there's better ways to benefit our family.

I suppose that's the biggest difference I've seen in my social group compared to our parents. Particularly when weddings have been continually postponed over the last year, more people are starting to question if there's really any point in it at all (aside from your kids being called bastards!).

If you have kids that won't be changed by not being married.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am

Openside wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 am

Hugo wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:22 am One of the things I have observed is that boomers tend to like a drink. In contrast millenials seem to be more into coffee.

The legacy the boomers are leaving is an interesting one to consider - collectively they did not treat the nuclear family and marriage with the kind of reverence that prior generations did and I fear that has had far reaching consequences for society. Personally speaking both my wife and I's parents divorced and subsequently remarried and we see it as our parental duty to restore our families back to the traditional "till death do us part" type of marriage dynamic. In addition to the expected step parent challenges the eight grandparents thing is a bit of a mess if I'm being honest.

that is quite an interesting take, I am not sure reverence is correct. I think people realised they weren't trapped like they used to be. Although I agree it has a big effect on society.

My take would be there was a confluence of realising you weren't trapped combined with there still being the family pressure to marry. I don't think as a rule millennials are as a rule under huge pressure to settle down and have kids (not least because not that many of us have the assets that come with settling down traditionally).

This is an article on precisely what you are talking about (if I am reading it correctly). According to the article marriage is the preserve of overachievers and the wealthy but out of the question for people of more moderate means in the modern era:
https://time.com/5434949/divorce-rate-c ... -benefits/

Fascinating thread by the way, thanks for starting it Enzedder.

In this country, one vast difference I have noted is that of state pensions. The boomers, no strangers to getting stuff for nothing, just about all feel entitled to their State Pension from age 65.

I know both of my Millennial kids think it isn't sustainable and have been saving for their retirement since they were in their early 20s.

Enzedder wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:54 pm In this country, one vast difference I have noted is that of state pensions. The boomers, no strangers to getting stuff for nothing, just about all feel entitled to their State Pension from age 65.

I know both of my Millennial kids think it isn't sustainable and have been saving for their retirement since they were in their early 20s.

A big group of my friends (my included) figure we'll die on the job... maybe go back to the way it was with my great(great) grandparents who were born in the late 1800s and have to move in with kids? (I'm hoping for the former, still holding out on the kids thing.)

Niegs wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:31 am

Enzedder wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:54 pm In this country, one vast difference I have noted is that of state pensions. The boomers, no strangers to getting stuff for nothing, just about all feel entitled to their State Pension from age 65.

I know both of my Millennial kids think it isn't sustainable and have been saving for their retirement since they were in their early 20s.

A big group of my friends (my included) figure we'll die on the job... maybe go back to the way it was with my great(great) grandparents who were born in the late 1800s and have to move in with kids? (I'm hoping for the former, still holding out on the kids thing.)

I'm just smashing it for a few more years to sell up and buy a place on the coast.

It's a balancing act to make sure our Super is high enough after that.

I'd not be averse to working a few days a week once I move but I'm done with Wage-Slavery

Enzedder wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:54 pm In this country, one vast difference I have noted is that of state pensions. The boomers, no strangers to getting stuff for nothing, just about all feel entitled to their State Pension from age 65.

I know both of my Millennial kids think it isn't sustainable and have been saving for their retirement since they were in their early 20s.

Luxury!!

The Strayan age pension's bottom bound is currently 66, becoming 66.5 mid-year. A home-owning couple with combined assets* >$876,500 will see none of it, tho'. Which I why I never bothered to submit an application when I called it quits in mid 2019.



*The actual home ('principal place of dwelling') isn't included

MungoMan wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:57 am
*The actual home ('principal place of dwelling') isn't included

Therin lies the rub - if you have large assets, you should be using them in retirement. Literally, the only point to owning your own home

Niegs wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:31 am

Enzedder wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:54 pm In this country, one vast difference I have noted is that of state pensions. The boomers, no strangers to getting stuff for nothing, just about all feel entitled to their State Pension from age 65.

I know both of my Millennial kids think it isn't sustainable and have been saving for their retirement since they were in their early 20s.

A big group of my friends (my included) figure we'll die on the job... maybe go back to the way it was with my great(great) grandparents who were born in the late 1800s and have to move in with kids? (I'm hoping for the former, still holding out on the kids thing.)

Yep. I actively resent having to pay money towards my pension each pay cheque as I don't think I'll ever get to use it. It's almost 40 years until I'd be able to access it and the state retirement age will probably go up if not cease to exist in that time unless some sort of economic and demographic miracle occurs.

mat the expat wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:01 am

MungoMan wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:57 am
*The actual home ('principal place of dwelling') isn't included

Therin lies the rub - if you have large assets, you should be using them in retirement. Literally, the only point to owning your own home

'kenoath. Our house - we own only one - is our home and its monetary worth is a tad irrelevant.

In fact, lemme just say I abominate the central role the real estate market plays in 'wealth strategies' and the way governments have made this so. (A snarlier emoticon than is available should go here). The upshot of that shitshow is a whole bunch of young folk who will truly struggle to buy a home, with many never succeeding.

I hate it also but this is Oz, as I discovered when I moved here, if you aren't in it, you'll not have a pension worth living off of.

MungoMan wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:23 am

mat the expat wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:01 am

MungoMan wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:57 am
*The actual home ('principal place of dwelling') isn't included

Therin lies the rub - if you have large assets, you should be using them in retirement. Literally, the only point to owning your own home

'kenoath. Our house - we own only one - is our home and its monetary worth is a tad irrelevant.

In fact, lemme just say I abominate the central role the real estate market plays in 'wealth strategies' and the way governments have made this so. (A snarlier emoticon than is available should go here). The upshot of that shitshow is a whole bunch of young folk who will truly struggle to buy a home, with many never succeeding.

The rise in prices genuinely has me thinking about a move again. I'm on my best salary ever but can't afford more than a fixer-upper (with no skills to do so) or a tiny place in the roughest of neighbourhoods (there's a cool, affordable cabin on a nudist resort nearby that's cheap, but I hear they're VERY insistent on everyone following their way of life ).

My parents sold a three bedroom house on 33 acres of land five years ago for $325000 (and there were only three bidders, not a lot of interest at all for months when it was at $350k). Just heard from mum that the owners are moving to the east coast (lot cheaper out there) and have the house up for $619k. Their old neighbour said there's been a steady stream of lookers. In five years, value has nearly doubled and not even a growth area. Don't think it'll ever be as the drive to the city is too far, rapid transit will never go that far north either. ... and it's not just this year, prices jumped maybe two years after they sold.

Inner city, I don't know how people do it. Friends pay more for monthly childcare than I do for rent.

... that said, if any of the Kiwis who live rural or small town are looking for a live-in handyman/butler/top notch rugby coach for your local club, give me a ring. Might just be easier to live in someone else's dream home!

I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

We'll look at the stamp duty cut as one more of Dishy Rishi's policy disasters. All it did was allow already asset rich people to afford their investment houses at a cheaper price.

I like neeps wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

We'll look at the stamp duty cut as one more of Dishy Rishi's policy disasters. All it did was allow already asset rich people to afford their investment houses at a cheaper price.

was it available for everyone or only first homes??

Openside wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:08 pm

I like neeps wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

We'll look at the stamp duty cut as one more of Dishy Rishi's policy disasters. All it did was allow already asset rich people to afford their investment houses at a cheaper price.

was it available for everyone or only first homes??

All under 500k with cuts more generous for if it was "residential" but also cuts for BTLs. To "stimulate" the housing market but as with Help To Buy that's for first time housebuyers both policies really benefit the asset owners. Almost as if the Tory party has a vested interest in asset owners.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

Without reading into why, I'd put a tenner on No stamp duty = oh prospective buyers can afford more

Edit: per above

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

Give it a few months - I suspect we are due a crash.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:31 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

Give it a few months - I suspect we are due a crash.

yup

Openside wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:31 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

Give it a few months - I suspect we are due a crash.

yup

Hmmn, might we worth buying something back in Blighty

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

At the risk of melchetting again; that’ll just be short term won’t it?

The exodus of office workers to working from home will be permanent from what I’m seeing. That’ll be even more-so in the more expensive areas as the demand just won’t be there.

That’ll have to bring prices down.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:31 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

Give it a few months - I suspect we are due a crash.

There won't be a crash, as government will take extreme measures to prevent one - the entire economic model depends on high and ever increasing property prices. They'll introduce all sorts of measures and schemes which will end up with the market stagnating instead of going into free fall. So they'll waste all manner of taxpayer money to leave us in a pointless limbo of an economic system.

Random1 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:57 am

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:53 pm I was vaguely hoping that one of the few upsides to the combo of Brexit and pandemic might mean I can afford to buy in London. ahaha no, turns out that in 2020 house prices rose dramatically. Woohoo!

At the risk of melchetting again; that’ll just be short term won’t it?

The exodus of office workers to working from home will be permanent from what I’m seeing. That’ll be even more-so in the more expensive areas as the demand just won’t be there.

That’ll have to bring prices down.

I honestly have no idea what to expect. House prices seem to be immune to events beyond "supply is much lower than demand" and "houses make for great investment vehicles for people whose financial situation doesn't give a shit about current events".

We're an hour West of London. Prices are going up here every week as Londoners snap up properties with gardens to work at home permanently. Doing that in a 1 bed flat in London sucked in 2020, so they're getting out.

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am We're an hour West of London. Prices are going up here every week as Londoners snap up properties with gardens to work at home permanently. Doing that in a 1 bed flat in London sucked in 2020, so they're getting out.

Unacceptable and to be robustly discouraged.

Shoot one, educate a thousand...