NPR

charltom wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:59 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:30 pm

charltom wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:16 pm
So a Conservative candidate failed to condemn a racist slogan as fascist, 60 years ago (when most people in the country were a little bit racist)? Shocking.

You might want to read some history and context before making an arse of yourself.

Good try.

It's 2021.

?
The context of the rest of the behaviour around that election idiot.

It is funny watching you youngsters seeing Conservatism in the flesh, having previously thought it was all Gentlemanly, and Patriarchal.

First they came after the poor and unemployed, and I said nothing as I and neither,
Then they came after the sick and I said nothing because I was well,.
Then they went after the poor sick and unemployed again, because their contempt is self serving and it can never be satisfied, (and they wanted another taxcut) ..and I said nothing.. because I want a taxcut too, and 135 thousand deaths is a price worth paying.. for my taxcut.
Then they came after single mothers and illegal immigrants, hey taxcut time coming around again, soo soon? whoopeeeee..
Then they went after poor school kids and I said nothing because I wasn't a school kid, who also wanted a taxcut.

Then they went after me.

LOL.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:12 am It is funny watching you youngsters seeing Conservatism in the flesh, having previously thought it was all Gentlemanly, and Patriarchal.

First they came after the poor and unemployed, and I said nothing as I and neither,
Then they came after the sick and I said nothing because I was well,.
Then they went after the poor sick and unemployed again, because their contempt is self serving and it can never be satisfied, (and they wanted another taxcut) ..and I said nothing.. because I want a taxcut too, and 135 thousand deaths is a price worth paying.. for my taxcut.
Then they came after single mothers and illegal immigrants, hey taxcut time coming around again, soo soon? whoopeeeee..
Then they went after poor school kids and I said nothing because I wasn't a school kid, who also wanted a taxcut.

Then they went after me.

LOL.

That’s a simplification.

Conservatives aren’t a homogenous monolith. There are small businesses a plenty, there are social conservatives, there are patriotic brits in there. Essentially, there are thousands of reasons that people vote conservative.

And almost none of the elections over the last 20 years were about tax. The one where tax was made a significant issue, it was actually the conservatives that proposed it! (Dementia tax).

There are also plenty of rich people who vote to limit tax. But they still only get one vote come election time.

Political tribalism is just as bad as any other tribalism. Thinking the other side is malign just because of your prejudices is just prejudiced.

It’s another example of intellectual laziness for me - to assume bad intent of a mass of different people and to just dismiss them is just a classic ad homenim attack, but at a corporate level.

Attack the policy.

Not the tribe.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Random1 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:24 pm

charltom wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:16 pm

I only agree with this in one dimension. We are socially more "left" than 50 years ago (more liberal, with Labour policies). We are also economically more "right" than 50 years ago (more classical liberal, with Conservative - as opposed to conservative - policies).

I don't get why people think in terms of left and right other than that it suits the two big partoes. In fact we are more libertarian (social left, economic right) and less authoritarian (although nowhere near enough, at times!). Fascists tend to be the latter.

I agree that referring to left and right axis's alone is not nuanced enough; that’s why I said left, right and liberal (granted, didn’t mention authoritarian, but not even neeps would argue we’ve gone down that axis)

So, I agree we’ve gone more liberal as opposed to authoritarian

But You genuinely think we’re further right in terms of classic economic right and left compared to 50 years ago?

50 years ago we had stricter capital controls and much much much higher tax rates. Now we have low tax and money/transactions are borderless.

There's good and bad but we're hardly moving left of the economy.

Yeah, fair enough on that - different angle to what is was looking at.

My focus was on what the tax is spent on. More of it goes on the welfare state. Health, pensions, housing etc. Compared to 50 Years ago.

To compound my feeling, the one area of public spend the traditional right wing supports, defence, has dropped off a cliff.

That’s why I felt we’d shifted to the left.

But I get where you’re coming from.