Page 2 of 3

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 2:48 pm
by Grandpa
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:35 pm
Too many assumptions... Heysel was the fault of Liverpool fans. Totally unrelated to last night... 20,000 fans herded through one turn style... legitimate tickets rejected... a perfect storm of organisational incompetence...

Disabled and blind Liverpool fans tear-gassed by French police at Champions League final

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... champions/

The Stade holds 80k. There are at least 16 "gates" at which there are very many turnstiles per gate. I call BS on 20k passing through 1 turnstile.

Maybe legit tickets were rejected but how many illegal tickets were there?
And the spraying in faces with pepper spray? Also BS despite the videos?

20,000 Liverpool fans were only allowed in one section... this has all the hallmarks of the Hillsborough Disaster for organisational incompetence... wait for the UEFA cover up...

Journalist shows what really happened to fans in Paris – bottlenecks, tear gas and “bad actors”

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/05/j ... ad-actors/

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:28 pm
by Blackmac
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:48 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:35 pm
Too many assumptions... Heysel was the fault of Liverpool fans. Totally unrelated to last night... 20,000 fans herded through one turn style... legitimate tickets rejected... a perfect storm of organisational incompetence...

Disabled and blind Liverpool fans tear-gassed by French police at Champions League final

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... champions/

The Stade holds 80k. There are at least 16 "gates" at which there are very many turnstiles per gate. I call BS on 20k passing through 1 turnstile.

Maybe legit tickets were rejected but how many illegal tickets were there?
And the spraying in faces with pepper spray? Also BS despite the videos?

20,000 Liverpool fans were only allowed in one section... this has all the hallmarks of the Hillsborough Disaster for organisational incompetence... wait for the UEFA cover up...

Journalist shows what really happened to fans in Paris – bottlenecks, tear gas and “bad actors”

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/05/j ... ad-actors/
He kind of lost my interest when he wrote "the truth became evident through updates on social media".

That and the fact he writes for This is Anfield, so hardly a neutral observer. 😂😂

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:34 pm
by Grandpa
Blackmac wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:28 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:48 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 pm

The Stade holds 80k. There are at least 16 "gates" at which there are very many turnstiles per gate. I call BS on 20k passing through 1 turnstile.

Maybe legit tickets were rejected but how many illegal tickets were there?
And the spraying in faces with pepper spray? Also BS despite the videos?

20,000 Liverpool fans were only allowed in one section... this has all the hallmarks of the Hillsborough Disaster for organisational incompetence... wait for the UEFA cover up...

Journalist shows what really happened to fans in Paris – bottlenecks, tear gas and “bad actors”

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/05/j ... ad-actors/
He kind of lost my interest when he wrote "the truth became evident through updates on social media".

That and the fact he writes for This is Anfield, so hardly a neutral observer. 😂😂
True... but a lot of other sources saying similar... and as for those cops just randomly spraying pepper spray in faces of fans getting tickets checked... :shifty:

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:37 pm
by Grandpa
Anyway... the benchmark for journalism...

UEFA fails in attempt to organise successful ‘brewery-based piss-up’

https://newsthump.com/2022/05/29/uefa-f ... K80jh1_98I

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pm
by C69
On the face of it those Police looked like they were randomly spraying the fans tbh.
We know there were undercover English police there monitoring the situation for hooliganism etc
Perhaps they will be asked their opinion

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 5:47 pm
by Blackmac
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:34 pm
Blackmac wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:28 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:48 pm

And the spraying in faces with pepper spray? Also BS despite the videos?

20,000 Liverpool fans were only allowed in one section... this has all the hallmarks of the Hillsborough Disaster for organisational incompetence... wait for the UEFA cover up...

Journalist shows what really happened to fans in Paris – bottlenecks, tear gas and “bad actors”

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/05/j ... ad-actors/
He kind of lost my interest when he wrote "the truth became evident through updates on social media".

That and the fact he writes for This is Anfield, so hardly a neutral observer. 😂😂
True... but a lot of other sources saying similar... and as for those cops just randomly spraying pepper spray in faces of fans getting tickets checked... :shifty:
It's difficult to establish what is going on from those scenes. The official narrative is Liverpool fans caused the backlogs by presenting fake tickets and refusing to move from the turnstiles. That could easily be what we are seeing here and the French cops actions are well, French cops being French cops. British cops might try to negotiate the situation and persuade the fans to move away peacefully but European cops in these situations are rarely so restrained.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 5:52 pm
by Blackmac
C69 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pm On the face of it those Police looked like they were randomly spraying the fans tbh.
We know there were undercover English police there monitoring the situation for hooliganism etc
Perhaps they will be asked their opinion
The official Police Scotland report into the policing and organisation at the Manchester cup final was horrifically critical but was virtually dismissed out of hand by the Manchester authorities as not having a sufficient overview. I doubt the Liverpool cops opinions will be treated any differently and to be honest the tweet they have already made is disgracefully unprofessional.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 6:00 pm
by Insane_Homer
Good to know absolutely nothing was learned after this...

Image

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 6:25 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Blackmac wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 5:47 pm British cops might try to negotiate the situation and persuade the fans to move away peacefully but European cops in these situations are rarely so restrained.
Quite. And everyone knows it. Aside from English football followers it seems.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 6:42 pm
by JM2K6
Blackmac wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:28 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:48 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 pm

The Stade holds 80k. There are at least 16 "gates" at which there are very many turnstiles per gate. I call BS on 20k passing through 1 turnstile.

Maybe legit tickets were rejected but how many illegal tickets were there?
And the spraying in faces with pepper spray? Also BS despite the videos?

20,000 Liverpool fans were only allowed in one section... this has all the hallmarks of the Hillsborough Disaster for organisational incompetence... wait for the UEFA cover up...

Journalist shows what really happened to fans in Paris – bottlenecks, tear gas and “bad actors”

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/05/j ... ad-actors/
He kind of lost my interest when he wrote "the truth became evident through updates on social media".

That and the fact he writes for This is Anfield, so hardly a neutral observer. 😂😂
He means the videos people were posting to social media.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:00 am
by Paddington Bear
Seems to be an issue with just about any showcase football match atm, from pitch invasions to this.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am
by Paddington Bear
Insane_Homer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:00 pm Good to know absolutely nothing was learned after this...

Image
Hmm - strikes me as pretty much a direct reaction to it. French police clearly expected thousands of people to turn up without tickets and prepared accordingly.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 4:21 pm
by Blackmac
Paddington Bear wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am
Insane_Homer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:00 pm Good to know absolutely nothing was learned after this...

Image
Hmm - strikes me as pretty much a direct reaction to it. French police clearly expected thousands of people to turn up without tickets and prepared accordingly.

Exactly. all the criticism aimed at UEFA is also misplaced. The match would be organised by the stadium management, Paris city authorities and the local police using well established and tried and tested SOP's which will have proved effective at all the previous large scale events at the stadium.
They would only deviate from them if they had intelligence regarding a specific threat which in this case seems to have been the fake tickets.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:48 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Claims that 70% of Scousers with illegal tickets. Wonder how many Spaniards tried to fraudulently enter the stadium?
30,000 to 40,000 Liverpool fans with fake tickets or without tickets outside the stadium

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:29 pm
by laurent
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:48 pm Claims that 70% of Scousers with illegal tickets. Wonder how many Spaniards tried to fraudulently enter the stadium?
30,000 to 40,000 Liverpool fans with fake tickets or without tickets outside the stadium
French Gov is full of shit

There was an accumulation of problems the fake ticket is a silly distraction to the real issues :
  • Strike at RER B causing transport and overloadind 1 side of the stadium.
    Short prep (this was planned in russia).
    Stupid French police who thinks if you fart they can assault you.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:38 pm
by petej
Paddington Bear wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:00 am Seems to be an issue with just about any showcase football match atm, from pitch invasions to this.
Not feeling massively sympathetic. Don't buy dodgy tickets and don't turn up at the stadium without a ticket. Yes the French police might not have been great but there is a bit of not being a bellend and taking ownership that seems to have been lost. I hope Liverpool as a club have messaged heavily on only going if you have ticket and only buy tickets from official sources. There has been lots of events at that stadium with bugger all issue's until this.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 2:29 am
by Deepsouth
English soccer scumbags doing what they do best innit.

I'm half joking but what one would pay for a couple of flamethrowers and an MG 42 in these situations....

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 7:24 am
by Torquemada 1420
laurent wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:29 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:48 pm Claims that 70% of Scousers with illegal tickets. Wonder how many Spaniards tried to fraudulently enter the stadium?
30,000 to 40,000 Liverpool fans with fake tickets or without tickets outside the stadium
French Gov is full of shit

There was an accumulation of problems the fake ticket is a silly distraction to the real issues :
  • Strike at RER B causing transport and overloadind 1 side of the stadium.
    Short prep (this was planned in russia).
    Stupid French police who thinks if you fart they can assault you.
Yeah. Heard that B was closed last night but D was still okay and along with St Denis Porte. on the Metro (my preferred route when not driving) should have been plenty. Those 2 alone provide way better access than Twickenham. Looks like many were funnelled through one of the underpasses which was not smart if that's where they were trying to do the checking because that would bottleneck. Note that it's now being said that the gates around the ground were almost deserted i.e. the supporters weren't even getting that far but also confirms my BS call earlier on the claims that the supporters were being forced through one turnstile.

French police are known c**ts but maybe it's less well known outside France not to give them any excuse to go all Gestapo.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 7:27 am
by Torquemada 1420
petej wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:38 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:00 am Seems to be an issue with just about any showcase football match atm, from pitch invasions to this.
Not feeling massively sympathetic. Don't buy dodgy tickets and don't turn up at the stadium without a ticket. Yes the French police might not have been great but there is a bit of not being a bellend and taking ownership that seems to have been lost. I hope Liverpool as a club have messaged heavily on only going if you have ticket and only buy tickets from official sources. There has been lots of events at that stadium with bugger all issue's until this.
I'm not sure what TF 000s were doing turning up outside the stadium with no ticket at all. Unclear so far why it seems only Liverpool fans had masses of illegal tickets and sure that one will run but as an observation in general, I hate touts and all events should be forced to sell tickets only directly or through authorised agents.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:45 am
by Paddington Bear
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:27 am
petej wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:38 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:00 am Seems to be an issue with just about any showcase football match atm, from pitch invasions to this.
Not feeling massively sympathetic. Don't buy dodgy tickets and don't turn up at the stadium without a ticket. Yes the French police might not have been great but there is a bit of not being a bellend and taking ownership that seems to have been lost. I hope Liverpool as a club have messaged heavily on only going if you have ticket and only buy tickets from official sources. There has been lots of events at that stadium with bugger all issue's until this.
I'm not sure what TF 000s were doing turning up outside the stadium with no ticket at all. Unclear so far why it seems only Liverpool fans had masses of illegal tickets and sure that one will run but as an observation in general, I hate touts and all events should be forced to sell tickets only directly or through authorised agents.
They are, it's just the touts are smarter. Hence why someone like myself hasn't got a single RWC ticket and within seconds of a window opening I could buy the tickets I was looking for for 5x the price second hand, or how I was offered two tickets to England Ireland for £900 each. I have a suspicion that there's some back handers to ticket office staff going on as well.

RE: French police. It generally seems as if British police are more willing to tolerate, in inverted commas "banter" with fans than continental police forces are. If you go to a football match here you'll pretty regularly see the usual types chancing their luck and generally the worst that will happen to them is either get videoed or shoed along.

Hard to know what to think about exactly what happened. I don't trust info coming from UEFA, the French Police or Liverpool and their outriders, and none of it seems to give the full picture.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 11:39 am
by Torquemada 1420
Paddington Bear wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:45 am
They are, it's just the touts are smarter. Hence why someone like myself hasn't got a single RWC ticket and within seconds of a window opening I could buy the tickets I was looking for for 5x the price second hand, or how I was offered two tickets to England Ireland for £900 each. I have a suspicion that there's some back handers to ticket office staff going on as well.

RE: French police. It generally seems as if British police are more willing to tolerate, in inverted commas "banter" with fans than continental police forces are. If you go to a football match here you'll pretty regularly see the usual types chancing their luck and generally the worst that will happen to them is either get videoed or shoed along.

Hard to know what to think about exactly what happened. I don't trust info coming from UEFA, the French Police or Liverpool and their outriders, and none of it seems to give the full picture.
Last RWC in France was a ticketing farce. I only got mine because a former player was Presi of a club at the time. This time round has been zero chance because he retired. As usual, genuine fans have f**k all chance and it's all the cronies and corporates who get priority.

2 extremes. British police are virtually comatose now: paralysed by ineptitude, red tape, loathing of paperwork, a hopeless CPS, an ambivalent/hostile public and fear of ambulance chasers. France is the reverse. The police are unanswerable to anyone and get to act like the Met 1980s style on steroids.

Agree on your last point i.e. everyone is lying and running on his own agenda.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 11:49 am
by OomStruisbaai
Look like the argument for the 6 nations regarding travelling supporters don't have value in France. Sound like a vokop.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 1:39 pm
by laurent
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:49 am Look like the argument for the 6 nations regarding travelling supporters don't have value in France. Sound like a vokop.
Football is very different to Rugby.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 2:37 pm
by Torquemada 1420
laurent wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 1:39 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:49 am Look like the argument for the 6 nations regarding travelling supporters don't have value in France. Sound like a vokop.
Football is very different to Rugby.
This. Even French police are generally relatively light handed when it comes to rugby**.

** Asides from a certain incident involving yt, Odval and Donbilly.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 2:38 pm
by SaintK
Paddington Bear wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:45 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:27 am
petej wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:38 pm

Not feeling massively sympathetic. Don't buy dodgy tickets and don't turn up at the stadium without a ticket. Yes the French police might not have been great but there is a bit of not being a bellend and taking ownership that seems to have been lost. I hope Liverpool as a club have messaged heavily on only going if you have ticket and only buy tickets from official sources. There has been lots of events at that stadium with bugger all issue's until this.
I'm not sure what TF 000s were doing turning up outside the stadium with no ticket at all. Unclear so far why it seems only Liverpool fans had masses of illegal tickets and sure that one will run but as an observation in general, I hate touts and all events should be forced to sell tickets only directly or through authorised agents.
They are, it's just the touts are smarter. Hence why someone like myself hasn't got a single RWC ticket and within seconds of a window opening I could buy the tickets I was looking for for 5x the price second hand, or how I was offered two tickets to England Ireland for £900 each. I have a suspicion that there's some back handers to ticket office staff going on as well.

RE: French police. It generally seems as if British police are more willing to tolerate, in inverted commas "banter" with fans than continental police forces are. If you go to a football match here you'll pretty regularly see the usual types chancing their luck and generally the worst that will happen to them is either get videoed or shoed along.

Hard to know what to think about exactly what happened. I don't trust info coming from UEFA, the French Police or Liverpool and their outriders, and none of it seems to give the full picture.
Hmm! I managed to get the RWC tickets I wanted without any fuss via an official supplier as did two of my mates and my son!
Your club should receive notification of their 6N ticket allocation at least 4 months before the event takes place. Best to buy them then, or a least get your name into the ballot.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 5:12 pm
by Slick
laurent wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 1:39 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:49 am Look like the argument for the 6 nations regarding travelling supporters don't have value in France. Sound like a vokop.
Football is very different to Rugby.
I actually find going to the game in Paris incredibly easy and well organised once you arrive near the stadium. Out really quickly as well.

Hope these kids doing a spot of mugging and stealing is also just for the footie though

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 5:45 pm
by OomStruisbaai
Slick wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:12 pm
laurent wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 1:39 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:49 am Look like the argument for the 6 nations regarding travelling supporters don't have value in France. Sound like a vokop.
Football is very different to Rugby.
I actually find going to the game in Paris incredibly easy and well organised once you arrive near the stadium. Out really quickly as well.

Hope these kids doing a spot of mugging and stealing is also just for the footie though
Can you braai close to the stadium?

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 7:06 pm
by JM2K6
Only 2800 fake tickets apparently. This is going to be a great century for absolute bullshit being pedalled as the truth and breathlessly regurgitated by people online

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 7:09 pm
by Slick
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:45 pm
Slick wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:12 pm
laurent wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 1:39 pm

Football is very different to Rugby.
I actually find going to the game in Paris incredibly easy and well organised once you arrive near the stadium. Out really quickly as well.

Hope these kids doing a spot of mugging and stealing is also just for the footie though
Can you braai close to the stadium?
Lots of picnics going on, can’t remember braais.

Plenty of vans selling those hamburger and chips in a baguette thing, mmmm

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 9:49 pm
by Enzedder
JM2K6 wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:06 pm Only 2800 fake tickets apparently. This is going to be a great century for absolute bullshit being pedalled as the truth and breathlessly regurgitated by people online
You mean Donald Trump was right all along?? :shock:

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 10:14 pm
by Grandpa
JM2K6 wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:06 pm Only 2800 fake tickets apparently. This is going to be a great century for absolute bullshit being pedalled as the truth and breathlessly regurgitated by people online
At least someone in the French govt has now apologised to Liverpool. Ticket scanning machines weren't working... police attacking blind, disabled, children and pregnant women with tear gas... meanwhile French youths from local estate were attacking fans and stealing what they could... Real Madrid fans also targeted.

https://news.sky.com/story/champions-le ... s-12624991

Image


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... gniter-rhr

I feared another Hillsborough was unfolding before my eyes at Stade de France

It was a miracle nobody died on Saturday, and it really is this simple: the Stade de France in Saint-Denis should never be handed a showpiece sporting event again.

My family's ordeal is just one of thousands of horror stories, but, as we wade through the lies and cover-ups from French ministers, hopefully it helps to describe exactly what I saw.

There's two parts to my story: my front row view of the complete disorganisation and lack of safety provisions that made the build-up as worrying as the beginnings of Hillsborough. And then, afterwards, the horror of being called to find out my wife and son had been ambushed in separate attacks.

Before kick-off and 'shades of Hillsborough'
The evening had started off so well. Like all other games this season, I had been on duty for Liverpool TV. I arrived at Gate Y at 5pm, five hours before kick-off and an hour before we were due to start our broadcast. We were up on a 10ft broadcast platform and were having a bit of banter with everybody while we were waiting to go on air.

All was great, but as we went on air at 6pm, you could feel something was not right. Initially the crowd had been no bigger than a passport queue at an airport, yet when I turned around minutes later there were fans lined against the fence about five or six deep.

Your first reaction is that this is a normal build-up to a big match. But as time went on, it was obvious from our vantage point that it was getting uncomfortable. People started complaining and shouting up to me on the gantry asking me to do something. I'm thinking, 'What do they want me to do?' We eventually went to a broadcast break when fans started telling me that a gate further up had been closed and it had all gone off, with tear gas fired.

My first reaction was there must have been trouble with the fans, maybe a fight with Real Madrid or the locals. But it turns out that police and stewards just couldn't handle the traffic of people coming through. Due to the tear gas, the crowd dispersed and they all came down to where I was at Gate Y.

Now, suddenly, we're up to 20 to 25 people deep, and the closer we got to kick-off, the more dangerous it was. At its worst I counted more than 30 people deep. It was then that there was a squash and crush up the front where they had opened one of 10 potential turnstiles.

It was just sheer incompetence by the stewards. The police were not doing anything. People were shouting, 'We're getting crushed - push back.' They just had nowhere to go. It was shades of Hillsborough.

With no help from authorities, people started taking things into their own hands to get safe. They started climbing the fence, they were shouting help, passing kids back and a woman came on to our platform, shaking, crying and struggling to breathe. There was another fella the same. It was just absolute chaos.

From our view, we couldn't see the outer perimeter but we were being told how badly that was being policed and stewarded too. But we knew people were just walking through, whether they showed tickets or not. As a result, loads of locals were hanging around the gates. Those climbing over, that I saw, definitely looked like locals rather than fans.

There was a genuine risk of life here and we did come off half an hour before we planned because we knew what was going on and we wanted to help people. The shots just weren't right to go out. The footage is there but we couldn't report on it live.

Of course your thoughts start turning to your own family too. About an hour before kick-off, I called my wife Lucy and said: 'Listen, you need to get in the ground - there's a lot of people turning up at the gates now. It's getting uncomfortable. You need to get in now."

She initially said her gate seemed quite clear, but by the time she had met my son Harry, 22, and a couple of club officials, it was chaos for her too. It all felt like the aftermath of a motorway crash. Within seconds the queue was massive. She then rang me, and said: "Listen, I'm getting squashed. It's really uncomfortable."

Thankfully, they squeezed in fine. Others were less fortunate. One of my best mates didn't get in until 10 minutes into the second half. The game, of course, was a non-event, overshadowed by what happened. I've never seen a Liverpool crowd so quiet on a big night.

Attacked by gangs
Amid all the chaos, it was decided our post-match programme would be canned. Instead, the broadcast team was told to stay in position and leave together, and then go back to the coach that had been put on for us by the club.

Lucy, however, had left 10 minutes after full-time with Harry. Unknown to them at the time, the coach they were due to get on had been moved to a different spot because someone had thrown a brick at it.

As a result, Lucy and Harry met one of the club officials and they started walking 200 yards up the road to where it had been parked. It was at some point after this that five young men came out of the crowd, behind Lucy and ripped her blouse open at the buttons so she was left exposed.

Her arms came up, they grabbed them and then twisted her wrists. She was being dragged back and thinking the absolute worst. As she was dragged, she screamed at Harry, who turned around and ran at them and then they just took off.

Bruised arm
I got a phone call from her immediately afterwards and she was crying her eyes out, saying "I've just been mugged - my watch is gone." It was a wedding present and had huge sentimental value. She then said Harry had run after them, and I immediately thought: 'What the f---?'

She went off with a guy from the club to get on the coach while I tried ring Harry. Eventually, 10 minutes later, I got a call from him and he was crying his eyes too as they had kicked the s--- out of him. He had run after them and he got about 150 yards when he felt he lost them through the crowd.

But when he stopped and took his phone out of his pocket to call Lucy, the same five lads set upon him. They tripped him up and he dropped his phone. As he reached out to grab it they gave him a kicking. Harry managed to land a punch but it was actually Real Madrid fans that jumped in and helped him.

He then rings me and obviously I'm now extremely worried. I tell him to ping me his location and try to track down a police officer to stand next to. When I got down onto the street where he was, I couldn't believe my eyes - there was not one policeman, not one police car, no stewards or any Uefa officials.

There was nothing in that street apart from Liverpool, Real Madrid fans and gangs of these horrible rats attacking people. There were sirens in the background but by now we were 350 yards from the ground in the outer perimeter.
When I eventually found Harry, he pointed me in the direction of where he assumed the coach was going to be and we eventually saw a club official who grabbed us and threw us on a coach.

Eventually, we all gave statements to the police and the club brought Harry to his hotel in a car they put on. He had cut his arm and his hand and elbow but he didn't need any medical assistance. He was just a little bit shook up.

Politicians have failed
The fact that this is just one story among thousands is just disgusting. We've made football a family game where women and kids feel safe. It's still got that tribalism but the game has been made like this by Uefa, by Fifa, by all the governing bodies.

Emmanuel Macron wanted this game on because he wanted to show the world what France can do. Well the first priority should be to just look after the fans, make sure that they get on buses safe and can actually get into the ground. It's not just about making people pay Uefa £500, £900 or £1,500 for a ticket.

I'm absolutely disgusted by the subsequent words from politicians. I have spoken at length with Billy Hogan, the club's chief executive, and he agrees. How can these politicians quote these statistics when we haven't even had an independent inquiry?

Talk of tens and tens of thousands of fake tickets is utter lies and cover-up. They're saying this because they put lives at risk, and I saw it first hand. That's why the Stade de France should never have a match on this scale again.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:56 pm
by sefton
No surprise to see the usual bitter, sad twats weighing in with an uniformed opinion based on nothing more than their own bigotry.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:47 am
by Blackmac
sefton wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:56 pm No surprise to see the usual bitter, sad twats weighing in with an uniformed opinion based on nothing more than their own bigotry.
Hold your horses there tonto. Any pre conceived ideas about Liverpool fans behaviour are bloody well founded and their reputation well deserved. Only the Liverpool propaganda machine is absolving them of all responsibility and all we are hearing from the authorities is some element of regret about how the French responded to events, which is clearly badly and heavy handed, but then it's the French (oh look more bigotry)
Over 2800 fake tickets recovered at the turnstiles is about 10 to 15 % of tickets issued to each side, if you imagine the pandemonium each "fan" makes at the turnstile when he is turned away, its clear that that would cause significant problems and have a huge influence on how the problems unfolded. Getting 80000 fans safely into a stadium is a very high stress situation in the first place and it doesn't take much for that to go pear shaped. 2800 fans with a fake ticket is a significant amount of twats with a total disregard for their fellow supporter and cannot be ignored.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:08 am
by Grandpa
Blackmac wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:47 am
sefton wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:56 pm No surprise to see the usual bitter, sad twats weighing in with an uniformed opinion based on nothing more than their own bigotry.
Hold your horses there tonto. Any pre conceived ideas about Liverpool fans behaviour are bloody well founded and their reputation well deserved. Only the Liverpool propaganda machine is absolving them of all responsibility and all we are hearing from the authorities is some element of regret about how the French responded to events, which is clearly badly and heavy handed, but then it's the French (oh look more bigotry)
Over 2800 fake tickets recovered at the turnstiles is about 10 to 15 % of tickets issued to each side, if you imagine the pandemonium each "fan" makes at the turnstile when he is turned away, its clear that that would cause significant problems and have a huge influence on how the problems unfolded. Getting 80000 fans safely into a stadium is a very high stress situation in the first place and it doesn't take much for that to go pear shaped. 2800 fans with a fake ticket is a significant amount of twats with a total disregard for their fellow supporter and cannot be ignored.
2,589, to be exact... a lot less than 40,000 as claimed by French authorities. But this was compounded by legitimate tickets being rejected as fakes...

New York Times view...
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/spor ... ckets.html

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:33 pm
by Blackmac
Grandpa wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:08 am
Blackmac wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:47 am
sefton wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:56 pm No surprise to see the usual bitter, sad twats weighing in with an uniformed opinion based on nothing more than their own bigotry.
Hold your horses there tonto. Any pre conceived ideas about Liverpool fans behaviour are bloody well founded and their reputation well deserved. Only the Liverpool propaganda machine is absolving them of all responsibility and all we are hearing from the authorities is some element of regret about how the French responded to events, which is clearly badly and heavy handed, but then it's the French (oh look more bigotry)
Over 2800 fake tickets recovered at the turnstiles is about 10 to 15 % of tickets issued to each side, if you imagine the pandemonium each "fan" makes at the turnstile when he is turned away, its clear that that would cause significant problems and have a huge influence on how the problems unfolded. Getting 80000 fans safely into a stadium is a very high stress situation in the first place and it doesn't take much for that to go pear shaped. 2800 fans with a fake ticket is a significant amount of twats with a total disregard for their fellow supporter and cannot be ignored.
2,589, to be exact... a lot less than 40,000 as claimed by French authorities. But this was compounded by legitimate tickets being rejected as fakes...

New York Times view...
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/spor ... ckets.html
From what we have seen of the tickets on TV, that is certainly somewhere that UEFA need to up their game. There didn't seem to be any obvious security features on them at all, and yes you can certainly see how problems would arise.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:04 am
by sefton
Blackmac wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:47 am
sefton wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:56 pm No surprise to see the usual bitter, sad twats weighing in with an uniformed opinion based on nothing more than their own bigotry.
Hold your horses there tonto. Any pre conceived ideas about Liverpool fans behaviour are bloody well founded and their reputation well deserved. Only the Liverpool propaganda machine is absolving them of all responsibility and all we are hearing from the authorities is some element of regret about how the French responded to events, which is clearly badly and heavy handed, but then it's the French (oh look more bigotry)
Over 2800 fake tickets recovered at the turnstiles is about 10 to 15 % of tickets issued to each side, if you imagine the pandemonium each "fan" makes at the turnstile when he is turned away, its clear that that would cause significant problems and have a huge influence on how the problems unfolded. Getting 80000 fans safely into a stadium is a very high stress situation in the first place and it doesn't take much for that to go pear shaped. 2800 fans with a fake ticket is a significant amount of twats with a total disregard for their fellow supporter and cannot be ignored.
Well if that was the standard of evidence on the police for a ranking officer then no wonder it is full of institutional racism and corruption.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:20 am
by Blackmac
sefton wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:04 am
Blackmac wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:47 am
sefton wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:56 pm No surprise to see the usual bitter, sad twats weighing in with an uniformed opinion based on nothing more than their own bigotry.
Hold your horses there tonto. Any pre conceived ideas about Liverpool fans behaviour are bloody well founded and their reputation well deserved. Only the Liverpool propaganda machine is absolving them of all responsibility and all we are hearing from the authorities is some element of regret about how the French responded to events, which is clearly badly and heavy handed, but then it's the French (oh look more bigotry)
Over 2800 fake tickets recovered at the turnstiles is about 10 to 15 % of tickets issued to each side, if you imagine the pandemonium each "fan" makes at the turnstile when he is turned away, its clear that that would cause significant problems and have a huge influence on how the problems unfolded. Getting 80000 fans safely into a stadium is a very high stress situation in the first place and it doesn't take much for that to go pear shaped. 2800 fans with a fake ticket is a significant amount of twats with a total disregard for their fellow supporter and cannot be ignored.
Well if that was the standard of evidence on the police for a ranking officer then no wonder it is full of institutional racism and corruption.
You never really come up with much of a worthwhile response other than insults do you. Maybe try playing the ball and not the man for once.
Also a pretty hysterical response for someone accusing others of bigotry but then that seems to be your standard response.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:25 am
by Margin__Walker
Banging on about thousands of scousers storming the turnstiles on the day was a touch hysterical too tbf.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:34 am
by Blackmac
Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:25 am Banging on about thousands of scousers storming the turnstiles on the day was a touch hysterical too tbf.
Agreed, however there was an element of mischief involved in that. The majority of my posts have been much more measured.
Sefton as usual responds in the only manner he knows. As for his own hugely bigoted suggestion that I am somehow racist maybe he shouldn't throw stones in glass houses as the education system has hardly come off unscathed in that respect.

Re: Champions league (soccer) Liverpool v Real Madrid

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:42 am
by Margin__Walker
Blackmac wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:34 am
Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:25 am Banging on about thousands of scousers storming the turnstiles on the day was a touch hysterical too tbf.
Agreed, however there was an element of mischief involved in that. The majority of my posts have been much more measured.
Sefton as usual responds in the only manner he knows. As for his own hugely bigoted suggestion that I am somehow racist maybe he shouldn't throw stones in glass houses as the education system has hardly come off unscathed in that respect.
Fair enough.

Honestly, defending English football fans abroad isn't a hill I'd choose to die on usually. But all the footage and first hand reports from journalists I've seen isn't doing a lot to convince me that on balance the French authorities didn't have a bit of a shocker here.