NPR

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:41 pm Marx shows it's hardly just about playing. And the thing about being a rugby player anyway is it involves playing.

True, but front-rowers are more likely to get injured at training. 9s just run about on Tuesday yapping and box-kicking.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:18 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:27 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:14 am France have paid the price for showboating.

A real pity for the tournament

Err, bit harsh, it was the 45th minute, he wouldn't have been on for much longer and he paid the price for a fucking horrible "tackle"/headbutt.

20/20 hindsight is great.

Torq had called this before it happened and they were already 50 points up. Had it happened at the same point in the Uruguay game I’d agree with you. The only thing he was doing on the pitch, bar entertaining the crowd. Was offering himself up to be injured. Not sure I’d have played him at all in their position but he’d have certainly been hooked at half time once it became clear Namibia weren’t causing problems.

I called it at HT too, I also wanted Danty hooked, so what?

The term showboating is bollocks, Dupont runs the whole show, France’s second string were poor in the last game but they were purring last night, mainly down to their captain.

That shite excuse for a tackle could have happened in the fifth minute, the thirty fifth or the forty fifth, should they just not play him at all?

Like I say 20/20 hindsight is easy/lazy

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:33 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:09 am I've just had a look at the tackle again, it wasn't remotely legal, leading with the head, slightly bent at the hips, far too high at all times. It's exactly the sort of collision the game is trying to get rid of.

We'll get to see if a long term injury to the World Cup poster boy prompts use of aggravating factors. All too little for Dupont, and in this the IRB may care to reflect on the laxity they've shown around high tackles for the past few weeks, they've set the cultural standards, just very bad ones

Sad but true. The Kriel incident could so easily have been the same outcome.

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:04 am

Slick wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:44 am FFS. This is such a shame, I'm really quite sad.

Me too. We want to see the best playing in every RWC.

No argument there. Hence we will all applaud Farrell's return.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:10 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:04 am

Slick wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:44 am FFS. This is such a shame, I'm really quite sad.

Me too. We want to see the best playing in every RWC.

No argument there. Hence we will all applaud Farrell's return.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:14 am France have paid the price for showboating.

A real pity for the tournament

That's too strong. We've all moaned about the poor, defensive rugby being played and so I have no issue with France playing some high "risk" stuff (we had two potential, Russell-esque interception tries as a result). The issue is over the personnel to do that with and, as has been pointed out, hindsight is wonderful............ and yet I'd already got the yips (and posted such) about keeping the key players on beyond half time. Specifically because of the injury risk (to both sides).

Galthie now looks like a friggin' idiot and, IMHO, rightly so.

France has a history of self-inflicted injuries to key players at RWCs: both Marconnet and de Villiers missed comps due to cycling accidents IIRC.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:53 pm That shite excuse for a tackle could have happened in the fifth minute, the thirty fifth or the forty fifth, should they just not play him at all?

It might have done so. But it was more likely to happen as Namibia's players got tired and, who knows, frustrated even. I am with you: I had no problem with Dupont et al starting but I had a massive problem with them staying on
when the game was well and truly dusted.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:53 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:18 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:27 am



Err, bit harsh, it was the 45th minute, he wouldn't have been on for much longer and he paid the price for a fucking horrible "tackle"/headbutt.

20/20 hindsight is great.

Torq had called this before it happened and they were already 50 points up. Had it happened at the same point in the Uruguay game I’d agree with you. The only thing he was doing on the pitch, bar entertaining the crowd. Was offering himself up to be injured. Not sure I’d have played him at all in their position but he’d have certainly been hooked at half time once it became clear Namibia weren’t causing problems.

I called it at HT too, I also wanted Danty hooked, so what?

The term showboating is bollocks, Dupont runs the whole show, France’s second string were poor in the last game but they were purring last night, mainly down to their captain.

That shite excuse for a tackle could have happened in the fifth minute, the thirty fifth or the forty fifth, should they just not play him at all?

Like I say 20/20 hindsight is easy/lazy

It’s not lazy at all - when you’re 50 points up you hook your best players and wrap them in cotton wool. Sure they were purring but it’s Namibia ffs, half their players are amateur or play in lower tiers. With all respect to them they’re barely offering a contested training run to the best player in the world. I can get him starting to ensure they didn’t have any jitters but his job was done, he was only still on to entertain a raucous crowd.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:23 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:53 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:18 pm

Torq had called this before it happened and they were already 50 points up. Had it happened at the same point in the Uruguay game I’d agree with you. The only thing he was doing on the pitch, bar entertaining the crowd. Was offering himself up to be injured. Not sure I’d have played him at all in their position but he’d have certainly been hooked at half time once it became clear Namibia weren’t causing problems.

I called it at HT too, I also wanted Danty hooked, so what?

The term showboating is bollocks, Dupont runs the whole show, France’s second string were poor in the last game but they were purring last night, mainly down to their captain.

That shite excuse for a tackle could have happened in the fifth minute, the thirty fifth or the forty fifth, should they just not play him at all?

Like I say 20/20 hindsight is easy/lazy

It’s not lazy at all - when you’re 50 points up you hook your best players and wrap them in cotton wool. Sure they were purring but it’s Namibia ffs, half their players are amateur or play in lower tiers. With all respect to them they’re barely offering a contested training run to the best player in the world. I can get him starting to ensure they didn’t have any jitters but his job was done, he was only still on to entertain a raucous crowd.

Yeah, I wouldn't have risked him at all tbh. If anyone could stand to sit out ;til the knockouts it's Dupont given the way he's been flogged for club and country the last few years.

With the cushion they had by half time there was really no point in sending him back out. Given how poor the second string were previously it was time to give one of the other 9s a solid half to try and prove that was a blip

EnergiseR2 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:45 am

Slick wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:39 am Pressure getting to the Irish

Ah come on. I remember the joking when POC and SOB were ruled out. Dupont hasn't died

people like Dupont

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:52 pm Dupont has his surgery today .

Someone tweeted that Brad Barritt had similar and was back in a week or so?

This incident: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/barritt- ... -leinster/

Ymx wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:09 am I've just had a look at the tackle again, it wasn't remotely legal, leading with the head, slightly bent at the hips, far too high at all times. It's exactly the sort of collision the game is trying to get rid of.

It was a horrible collision. You could even see Du Pont grimace as he knew it was about to happen in slow-mo.

Such a shame to ruin a player in his peaks’ RWC. Chance in lifetime gone !

He's only 26; this injury hardly destines him to the knackers yard. He has at least one more RWC in him, albeit not at home.

Just seen the tackle. I presume the Namibian got a straight red for that. Shocking tackle.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:23 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:53 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:18 pm

Torq had called this before it happened and they were already 50 points up. Had it happened at the same point in the Uruguay game I’d agree with you. The only thing he was doing on the pitch, bar entertaining the crowd. Was offering himself up to be injured. Not sure I’d have played him at all in their position but he’d have certainly been hooked at half time once it became clear Namibia weren’t causing problems.

I called it at HT too, I also wanted Danty hooked, so what?

The term showboating is bollocks, Dupont runs the whole show, France’s second string were poor in the last game but they were purring last night, mainly down to their captain.

That shite excuse for a tackle could have happened in the fifth minute, the thirty fifth or the forty fifth, should they just not play him at all?

Like I say 20/20 hindsight is easy/lazy

It’s not lazy at all - when you’re 50 points up you hook your best players and wrap them in cotton wool. Sure they were purring but it’s Namibia ffs, half their players are amateur or play in lower tiers. With all respect to them they’re barely offering a contested training run to the best player in the world. I can get him starting to ensure they didn’t have any jitters but his job was done, he was only still on to entertain a raucous crowd.

Your ire is completely misplaced, it wasn't French arrogance, playing to the crowd or showboating that caused the injury, it was a ridiculously poor attempt at a tackle, the very kind of collision that WR say they are trying to prevent, the kind that tier one players have been banned for in recent months and weeks, so I'm not buying the idea from others that it was "poor old tiring tier two players, what do you expect?".

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:51 pm

Ymx wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:09 am I've just had a look at the tackle again, it wasn't remotely legal, leading with the head, slightly bent at the hips, far too high at all times. It's exactly the sort of collision the game is trying to get rid of.

It was a horrible collision. You could even see Du Pont grimace as he knew it was about to happen in slow-mo.

Such a shame to ruin a player in his peaks’ RWC. Chance in lifetime gone !

He's only 26; this injury hardly destines him to the knackers yard. He has at least one more RWC in him, albeit not at home.

Players don’t tend to retain peak superpower form for that long.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:21 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:23 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:53 pm

I called it at HT too, I also wanted Danty hooked, so what?

The term showboating is bollocks, Dupont runs the whole show, France’s second string were poor in the last game but they were purring last night, mainly down to their captain.

That shite excuse for a tackle could have happened in the fifth minute, the thirty fifth or the forty fifth, should they just not play him at all?

Like I say 20/20 hindsight is easy/lazy

It’s not lazy at all - when you’re 50 points up you hook your best players and wrap them in cotton wool. Sure they were purring but it’s Namibia ffs, half their players are amateur or play in lower tiers. With all respect to them they’re barely offering a contested training run to the best player in the world. I can get him starting to ensure they didn’t have any jitters but his job was done, he was only still on to entertain a raucous crowd.

Your ire is completely misplaced, it wasn't French arrogance, playing to the crowd or showboating that caused the injury, it was a ridiculously poor attempt at a tackle, the very kind of collision that WR say they are trying to prevent, the kind that tier one players have been banned for in recent months and weeks, so I'm not buying the idea from others that it was "poor old tiring tier two players, what do you expect?".

Yes, the only thing that was going to happen in terms of the tournament from Dupont being on that pitch past half time was him getting hurt. There was no rugby reason for him to be there, as I keep trying to explain.

Say what you like about Sir Clive but Jonny didn’t get hurt trying to make a world record number of conversions when we put 100 past Uruguay. This is tournament management and France have just failed at it

Ok, it's the internet, it not about what happened on the park and who committed the foul play.

Let's move on now.

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:58 pm I agree with PB, it was stupid to put not only Dupont but also Jalibert, Penaud and Olivon ( the last three are above average prone to injuries).

Like I said earlier, I was calling for Danty to be hooked at HT, he is particularly prone to injury and absolutely vital to France's chances.

The issue I have is with the term "showboating", it was wrong.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:05 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:58 pm I agree with PB, it was stupid to put not only Dupont but also Jalibert, Penaud and Olivon ( the last three are above average prone to injuries).

Like I said earlier, I was calling for Danty to be hooked at HT, he is particularly prone to injury and absolutely vital to France's chances.

The issue I have is with the term "showboating", it was wrong.

What else would you call keeping the world’s best player on the pitch after half time in a game where you’re leading 50-0, when you have potentially four huge games coming up?

He was entertaining the crowd, hell he was entertaining me, but his loss could be fatal and was totally avoidable if they hadn’t got carried away in the occasion. There was no reason, none, for him being on the pitch

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:05 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:58 pm I agree with PB, it was stupid to put not only Dupont but also Jalibert, Penaud and Olivon ( the last three are above average prone to injuries).

Like I said earlier, I was calling for Danty to be hooked at HT, he is particularly prone to injury and absolutely vital to France's chances.

The issue I have is with the term "showboating", it was wrong.

What else would you call keeping the world’s best player on the pitch after half time in a game where you’re leading 50-0, when you have potentially four huge games coming up?

He was entertaining the crowd, hell he was entertaining me, but his loss could be fatal and was totally avoidable if they hadn’t got carried away in the occasion. There was no reason, none, for him being on the pitch

I'd call it a misjudgement from the coaches, with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight

I have no idea of Galthié's motivation, neither do you. My guess would be based around how poor the second string were in the previous game and that suggests to me that the coaches wanted France to absolutely lay down a very big marker before getting the main spirit of the team off the park - if he'd come off two minutes later without being victim of a jaw-breaking head butt this exchange would not be happening.
But here we are.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:22 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:05 pm


Like I said earlier, I was calling for Danty to be hooked at HT, he is particularly prone to injury and absolutely vital to France's chances.

The issue I have is with the term "showboating", it was wrong.

What else would you call keeping the world’s best player on the pitch after half time in a game where you’re leading 50-0, when you have potentially four huge games coming up?

He was entertaining the crowd, hell he was entertaining me, but his loss could be fatal and was totally avoidable if they hadn’t got carried away in the occasion. There was no reason, none, for him being on the pitch

I'd call it a misjudgement from the coaches, with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight

I have no idea of Galthié's motivation, neither do you. My guess would be based around how poor the second string were in the previous game and that suggests to me that the coaches wanted France to absolutely lay down a very big marker before getting the main spirit of the team off the park - if he'd come off two minutes later without being victim of a jaw-breaking head butt this exchange would not be happening.
But here we are.

It’s not 20/20 hindsight if it was blindingly obvious at the time and other coaches in similar positions avoid similar situations!

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:26 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:22 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:16 pm
What else would you call keeping the world’s best player on the pitch after half time in a game where you’re leading 50-0, when you have potentially four huge games coming up?

He was entertaining the crowd, hell he was entertaining me, but his loss could be fatal and was totally avoidable if they hadn’t got carried away in the occasion. There was no reason, none, for him being on the pitch

I'd call it a misjudgement from the coaches, with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight

I have no idea of Galthié's motivation, neither do you. My guess would be based around how poor the second string were in the previous game and that suggests to me that the coaches wanted France to absolutely lay down a very big marker before getting the main spirit of the team off the park - if he'd come off two minutes later without being victim of a jaw-breaking head butt this exchange would not be happening.
But here we are.

It’s not 20/20 hindsight if it was blindingly obvious at the time and other coaches in similar positions avoid similar situations!

This place is hilarious.

You said Galthié was showing off.

I don't think he was, it has proved to be a misjudgment, but who is to say Dupont wouldn't have been head butted in the tenth minute?
Would you be roaring and greeting about the decision to play him then?

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:31 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:26 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:22 pm


I'd call it a misjudgement from the coaches, with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight

I have no idea of Galthié's motivation, neither do you. My guess would be based around how poor the second string were in the previous game and that suggests to me that the coaches wanted France to absolutely lay down a very big marker before getting the main spirit of the team off the park - if he'd come off two minutes later without being victim of a jaw-breaking head butt this exchange would not be happening.
But here we are.

It’s not 20/20 hindsight if it was blindingly obvious at the time and other coaches in similar positions avoid similar situations!

This place is hilarious.

You said Galthié was showing off.

I don't think he was, it has proved to be a misjudgment, but who is to say Dupont wouldn't have been head butted in the tenth minute?
Would you be roaring and greeting about the decision to play him then?

I’ve been really clear about what I think was particularly dumb about their decision making and I’m not sure how I can get you to grasp it if you haven’t already

Yet again I'm wondering why people can't just reply with manners here

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:26 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:22 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:16 pm
What else would you call keeping the world’s best player on the pitch after half time in a game where you’re leading 50-0, when you have potentially four huge games coming up?

He was entertaining the crowd, hell he was entertaining me, but his loss could be fatal and was totally avoidable if they hadn’t got carried away in the occasion. There was no reason, none, for him being on the pitch

I'd call it a misjudgement from the coaches, with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight

I have no idea of Galthié's motivation, neither do you. My guess would be based around how poor the second string were in the previous game and that suggests to me that the coaches wanted France to absolutely lay down a very big marker before getting the main spirit of the team off the park - if he'd come off two minutes later without being victim of a jaw-breaking head butt this exchange would not be happening.
But here we are.

It’s not 20/20 hindsight if it was blindingly obvious at the time and other coaches in similar positions avoid similar situations!

This.

IMO though it was stupid from the second the lineup was posted, especially with another pool game in the offing that would have accomplished what playing him against Namibia was theoretically supposed to have done.

The point I'm trying to make is that showboating is the wrong term, it's needlessly derogative.

It has proved to be a misjudgement, but was it showing off?

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:38 pm Yet again I'm wondering why people can't just reply with manners here

You turned it up to 60 from the start and have kept doing so throughout whilst switching your arguments around, don’t complain about manners because you’re not making ground. I answered your point repeatedly

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:50 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:38 pm Yet again I'm wondering why people can't just reply with manners here

You turned it up to 60 from the start and have kept doing so throughout whilst switching your arguments around, don’t complain about manners because you’re not making ground. I answered your point repeatedly

My complaint has always been about the wrong term, "showboating", I've been consistent in that.

There was no showing off.

I'm really going to have to sit this out now, it's not funny any more.

I've got no issue with France keeping players on the park. Perhaps if they were playing next weekend you'd have been more inclined to give some players the hook, perhaps, but with 2 weeks until the next game then meh. It's just very unlucky, but accidents happen. As a mis management call it doesn't even rise to the level of POM and Earls riding a bike not wearing helmets but wearing crocs

Yes some people are right to identify in advance some players will get injured, but you'd hope even a moron could make that call given in training and in games rugby reliably injures people

EnergiseR2 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:04 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:37 pm I've got no issue with France keeping players on the park. Perhaps if they were playing next weekend you'd have been more inclined to give some players the hook, perhaps, but with 2 weeks until the next game then meh. It's just very unlucky, but accidents happen. As a mis management call it doesn't even rise to the level of POM and Earls riding a bike not wearing helmets but wearing crocs

Yes some people are right to identify in advance some players will get injured, but you'd hope even a moron could make that call given in training and in games rugby reliably injures people

I must say, I hadn’t considered this angle. We’re they also chomping on onions shouting aw he haw he haw?

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:23 pm he was only still on to entertain a raucous crowd.

That will have been the last reason Galthie would have kept him on.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:37 pm As a mis management call it doesn't even rise to the level of POM and Earls riding a bike not wearing helmets but wearing crocs

Marconnet and de Villiers in bike accidents too. Maybe it's a rugby player thing?

Ymx wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:51 pm

Ymx wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:27 am

It was a horrible collision. You could even see Du Pont grimace as he knew it was about to happen in slow-mo.

Such a shame to ruin a player in his peaks’ RWC. Chance in lifetime gone !

He's only 26; this injury hardly destines him to the knackers yard. He has at least one more RWC in him, albeit not at home.

Players don’t tend to retain peak superpower form for that long.

Rubbish, he'll be fine. Aaron Smith is well into his 30s and has actually improved his form over the last few years after slumping for a while.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:53 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:50 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:38 pm Yet again I'm wondering why people can't just reply with manners here

You turned it up to 60 from the start and have kept doing so throughout whilst switching your arguments around, don’t complain about manners because you’re not making ground. I answered your point repeatedly

My complaint has always been about the wrong term, "showboating", I've been consistent in that.

There was no showing off.

I'm really going to have to sit this out now, it's not funny any more.

Tictheid's spot on.

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:52 pm Dupont has his surgery today .

Not sure where you got that from. Before I left work this evening, the update I had was no decision had been taken.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:51 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:52 pm Dupont has his surgery today .

Not sure where you got that from. Before I left work this evening, the update I had was no decision had been taken.

As Yr Alban posted earlier, surely they'll have to wait for the swelling to go down?

Gumboot wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:55 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:51 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:52 pm Dupont has his surgery today .

Not sure where you got that from. Before I left work this evening, the update I had was no decision had been taken.

As Yr Alban posted earlier, surely they'll have to wait for the swelling to go down?

Yeah I don't thing any surgeon is going to go in until they have a very clear idea of what needs to happen during the surgery, & that won't be possible until the swelling goes down. The last thing they want to do is have to go back in again in a weeks time because they rushed the job.

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:11 am

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:51 am Waiting until the end of the game would have made no difference at all. Also, they probably won’t operate for a week or so, because there will be a load of swelling and they need that to settle to avoid wound breakdown. Zero chance of him taking any further part in the tournament, I’d say. Unfortunately.

Cheers Doc

This
BCUHB?

The more I think about it the more a tragedy I believe it is for him. This was supposed to be the year France won the RWC

Gumboot wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:55 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:51 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:52 pm Dupont has his surgery today .

Not sure where you got that from. Before I left work this evening, the update I had was no decision had been taken.

As Yr Alban posted earlier, surely they'll have to wait for the swelling to go down?

It seems it was misreported on Bernol:
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/2023/09/22/cou ... 472111.php