England lost because they thought Scotland were sh*t

[Torquemada 1420]

From Martin Corry

if you’re five per cent off, then you’re half the side in terms of threat.

Let’s just get back to the question of intensity; when England are at their best, they’re playing like they did against New Zealand in 2019 – fast, committed gain line rugby, played with close off-loads and with power runners. Intensity is a mindset and when you’re faced with the challenge of New Zealand, there’s a natural and huge motivation to get those emotions up to their height.

Do agree with his 1st line............. which begs question why 5 Sarries players were selected.

[Margin__Walker]

Probably a good reminder that however bad things get, it could be worse.

We could be in the place we were in the mid 00s with an honest plodder like Corry as our back row lynchpin.

[Ovals]

Probably a good reminder that however bad things get, it could be worse.

We could be in the place we were in the mid 00s with an honest plodder like Corry as our back row lynchpin.

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

[Tichtheid]

Sean Maitland was one of the best players on the park last weekend, Itoje was pretty good too.

[Biffer]

From Martin Corry

if you’re five per cent off, then you’re half the side in terms of threat.

Let’s just get back to the question of intensity; when England are at their best, they’re playing like they did against New Zealand in 2019 – fast, committed gain line rugby, played with close off-loads and with power runners. Intensity is a mindset and when you’re faced with the challenge of New Zealand, there’s a natural and huge motivation to get those emotions up to their height.

Do agree with his 1st line............. which begs question why 5 Sarries players were selected.

Is there a full article? There are better takes than what’s above - squidgy highlights the commonalities of the defeats England have had in the last couple of years, which could be summed up as exposing the fact that England have no plan B. If you find a way to stop or negate the way they want to play, they don’t have on pitch adjustments or an alternative way to deal with what’s in front of them. The players are very coachable, but they have become so used to playing to a set plan that reacting to what’s in front of them is something they find difficult. This could be considered something of a trait of the English Premiership, although obviously there are plenty of teams who can react and play what’s ahead of them. It’s noticeable though that Jones doesn’t select many from those teams, and the ones he does aren’t the thinkers.

[JM2K6]

From Martin Corry

if you’re five per cent off, then you’re half the side in terms of threat.

Let’s just get back to the question of intensity; when England are at their best, they’re playing like they did against New Zealand in 2019 – fast, committed gain line rugby, played with close off-loads and with power runners. Intensity is a mindset and when you’re faced with the challenge of New Zealand, there’s a natural and huge motivation to get those emotions up to their height.

Do agree with his 1st line............. which begs question why 5 Sarries players were selected.

Is there a full article? There are better takes than what’s above - squidgy highlights the commonalities of the defeats England have had in the last couple of years, which could be summed up as exposing the fact that England have no plan B. If you find a way to stop or negate the way they want to play, they don’t have on pitch adjustments or an alternative way to deal with what’s in front of them. The players are very coachable, but they have become so used to playing to a set plan that reacting to what’s in front of them is something they find difficult. This could be considered something of a trait of the English Premiership, although obviously there are plenty of teams who can react and play what’s ahead of them. It’s noticeable though that Jones doesn’t select many from those teams, and the ones he does aren’t the thinkers.

The theory I've been espousing for ages is that Eddie basically doesn't rate English rugby or its players (rightly or wrongly), which explains his love affair with anyone who's been to NZ/Australia, his complete distrust of anyone who might play off-the-cuff, and his desire for "grit" and "intensity" (and size) which he thinks are the only things we can provide. And his dismissal of club form / long term performances.

[Torquemada 1420]

The theory I've been espousing for ages is that Eddie basically doesn't rate English rugby or its players (rightly or wrongly), which explains his love affair with anyone who's been to NZ/Australia, his complete distrust of anyone who might play off-the-cuff, and his desire for "grit" and "intensity" (and size) which he thinks are the only things we can provide. And his dismissal of club form / long term performances.

On the plus side for you
you were right
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/6-nation ... tory.shtml

On the minus side
Mako back which is another Sarries player with no rugby under his belt.

If you are right about your opening sentence then that's a horribly negligent piece of recruiting by the RFU.
- "Why do you want the England job"
- "Well, to be honest maaaaaaaaaate, I think you are sh*t but the money is great.

[JM2K6]

The theory I've been espousing for ages is that Eddie basically doesn't rate English rugby or its players (rightly or wrongly), which explains his love affair with anyone who's been to NZ/Australia, his complete distrust of anyone who might play off-the-cuff, and his desire for "grit" and "intensity" (and size) which he thinks are the only things we can provide. And his dismissal of club form / long term performances.

On the plus side for you
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56024122

On the minus side
Mako back which is another Sarries player with no rugby under his belt.

If you are right about your opening sentence then that's a horribly negligent piece of recruiting by the RFU.
- "Why do you want the England job"
- "Well, to be honest maaaaaaaaaate, I think you are sh*t but the money is great.

He's clearly a very good coach and the RFU are probably very happy with the returns. His record compared to Lancaster prior to getting the job is a no-contest. His results since then are insanely better. But he clearly distrusts the entire concept of English flair no matter how good the players are, and thinks our natural game is big bullying forwards mauling and the backs kicking and chasing - regardless of the sorts of players we're actually developing. Historically conservative nation meets eagerly conservative coach.

The only not-Eddie call in his selections is LCD ahead of George. Should've happened this time last year but there you go.

[Torquemada 1420]

He's clearly a very good coach and the RFU are probably very happy with the returns. His record compared to Lancaster prior to getting the job is a no-contest. His results since then are insanely better. But he clearly distrusts the entire concept of English flair no matter how good the players are, and thinks our natural game is big bullying forwards mauling and the backs kicking and chasing - regardless of the sorts of players we're actually developing. Historically conservative nation meets eagerly conservative coach.

The only not-Eddie call in his selections is LCD ahead of George. Should've happened this time last year but there you go.

I had never considered this from your angle i.e. a stance of distrust as opposed to believing that is the strength (ahem) of England. With Japan, he went with that flair.

Someone made the point earlier about wasting a generation of players and I guess it doesn't matter whether your rationale is correct or not if the outcome is to dispense with talent.
Whilst it's funny to watch England losing playing this stereotypical way (esp after Eddie's "we're gonna duff you up" pronouncements), from a wider rugby perspective, it is sh*t to watch
and is doing the game no favours at all.

And I'm aware that this might sound contradictory given my views on Russell but then I think Russell is a net loss player so maybe Eddie thinks anyone who exhibits any flair is de facto the same!

[laurent]

To be honest the 2 Conferences prior to the French Games do point to quite a bit of arrogance.

The one prior to last year six nations should have been sufficient warning.

However it was not; and potentially won't stop.

[Torquemada 1420]

To be honest the 2 Conferences prior to the French Games do point to quite a bit of arrogance.

The one prior to last year six nations should have been sufficient warning.

However it was not; and potentially won't stop.

Yes. Should have been beaten by a France 3rd team but seems Eddie convinced himself his side won the game and not Mr Brace.

[Paddington Bear]

Probably a good reminder that however bad things get, it could be worse.

We could be in the place we were in the mid 00s with an honest plodder like Corry as our back row lynchpin.

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

[JM2K6]

Probably a good reminder that however bad things get, it could be worse.

We could be in the place we were in the mid 00s with an honest plodder like Corry as our back row lynchpin.

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

I think Ovals has forgotten most of 2005-2011 tbh

[Margin__Walker]

Probably a good reminder that however bad things get, it could be worse.

We could be in the place we were in the mid 00s with an honest plodder like Corry as our back row lynchpin.

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

Glory days

England: Lewsey; Cueto, Noon, Tindall, Cohen; Hodgson, Ellis; Sheridan, Thompson, White; Borthwick, Grewcock; Worsley, Moody, Corry (capt).
Replacements: Chuter, Freshwater, Shaw, Dallaglio, Dawson, Goode, Voyce.

[JM2K6]

Frankly I can't believe that Charlie Hodgson wasn't able to turn that team into an attacking force to be reckoned with. What a spoofer!

[Ovals]

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

I think Ovals has forgotten most of 2005-2011 tbh

I'm trying to. I certainly don't remember us getting beaten, at home, by the Scotch during that period

[Torquemada 1420]

Frankly I can't believe that Charlie Hodgson wasn't able to turn that team into an attacking force to be reckoned with. What a spoofer!

Careful. Braz will be after you with rusty shears.

[JM2K6]

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

I think Ovals has forgotten most of 2005-2011 tbh

I'm trying to. I certainly don't remember us getting beaten, at home, by the Scotch during that period

No, that's a new low. Playing dead-end rugby was a common sight though!

[Woddy]

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

Glory days

England: Lewsey; Cueto, Noon, Tindall, Cohen; Hodgson, Ellis; Sheridan, Thompson, White; Borthwick, Grewcock; Worsley, Moody, Corry (capt).
Replacements: Chuter, Freshwater, Shaw, Dallaglio, Dawson, Goode, Voyce.

Weird thing is, all those in bold were great players and those in italics were very good. Collectively, should have done better even if not at the zenith of their individual powers at the time.

[Margin__Walker]

Some of them were great a few years earlier. Cohen especially was trash by 2006. Had bulked up and was playing like an auxiliary back row.

[Torquemada 1420]

Some of them were great a few years earlier. Cohen especially was trash by 2006. Had bulked up and was playing like an auxiliary back row.

Worst handler of a ball on the wing I can recall.

[JM2K6]

Some of them were great a few years earlier. Cohen especially was trash by 2006. Had bulked up and was playing like an auxiliary back row.

Worst handler of a ball on the wing I can recall.

You should watch Naiyaravoro.

[Torquemada 1420]

Some of them were great a few years earlier. Cohen especially was trash by 2006. Had bulked up and was playing like an auxiliary back row.

Worst handler of a ball on the wing I can recall.

You should watch Naiyaravoro.

Calling him a winger is a crime. He makes CauCau after too many pies look like me.

[tc27]

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

Glory days

England: Lewsey; Cueto, Noon, Tindall, Cohen; Hodgson, Ellis; Sheridan, Thompson, White; Borthwick, Grewcock; Worsley, Moody, Corry (capt).
Replacements: Chuter, Freshwater, Shaw, Dallaglio, Dawson, Goode, Voyce.

Weird thing is, all those in bold were great players and those in italics were very good. Collectively, should have done better even if not at the zenith of their individual powers at the time.

Most of the highlighted were shit in 2006

[Paddington Bear]

Cohen and Thompson got very fat on the after dinner circuit after 2003, were never the same player again IMHO. Lewsey was the only one who maintained his standards throughout.

[Openside]

TBF to Corry - I don't think any of those sides were as bereft of ideas as we were against Scotland. No line breaks, awful discipline, handling errors, zero flair, no offloads, poor srcum, almost no jackalling, beaten in the lineout, errors under high balls, poor kicking and inability to retain possession, no leadership. It was a shockingly poor display.

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

I think Ovals has forgotten most of 2005-2011 tbh

Was that when the most commented on feature of the game was Borthwicks nasal scab??

[Enzedder]

England achieved something last weekend that the ABs have never managed.

[Ymx]

England achieved something last weekend that the ABs have never managed.

Play a game in the six nations? Not sure what this has to do with NZ Enz.

In fact, despite being in the comp, I was also wondering why the French have been going so loony on this bored as game neutrals. I’ve only just remembered they were pretty butt hurt about the Autumn nations.

[eldanielfire]

I was at Murrayfield when he skippered and he lost. This comment is a personalised hate crime

Glory days

England: Lewsey; Cueto, Noon, Tindall, Cohen; Hodgson, Ellis; Sheridan, Thompson, White; Borthwick, Grewcock; Worsley, Moody, Corry (capt).
Replacements: Chuter, Freshwater, Shaw, Dallaglio, Dawson, Goode, Voyce.

Weird thing is, all those in bold were great players and those in italics were very good. Collectively, should have done better even if not at the zenith of their individual powers at the time.

True but most of them were far from their best at this period and many had lost the edge after 2003 due to many, many a good dinner as England/GB hardly had huge sporting success in those days.

[laurent]

England achieved something last weekend that the ABs have never managed.

Play a game in the six nations? Not sure what this has to do with NZ Enz.

In fact, despite being in the comp, I was also wondering why the French have been going so loony on this bored as game neutrals. I’ve only just remembered they were pretty butt hurt about the Autumn nations.

We tend to side with anyone playing against England

on the autumn cup The equalising English 'try' has a big fat knock-on in the build up which is particularly annoying. /Eddie is a cock/

Spoiler

Show

Lose to Scotland

[Biffer]

It also has to be highlighted that for the most part Scotland were utter dogshit at that point.

[JM2K6]

England achieved something last weekend that the ABs have never managed.

Play a game in the six nations? Not sure what this has to do with NZ Enz.

In fact, despite being in the comp, I was also wondering why the French have been going so loony on this bored as game neutrals. I’ve only just remembered they were pretty butt hurt about the Autumn nations.

We tend to side with anyone playing against England

on the autumn cup The equalising English 'try' has a big fat knock-on in the build up which is particularly annoying. /Eddie is a cock/

Spoiler

Show

Lose to Scotland

And the opening French try came from an absurd squint throw at the lineout...

[tc27]

It also has to be highlighted that for the most part Scotland were utter dogshit at that point.

Pretty good in 2006 though? Decent win against France too if I recall?

[Biffer]

It also has to be highlighted that for the most part Scotland were utter dogshit at that point.

Pretty good in 2006 though? Decent win against France too if I recall?

Good performance against France (we were always capable of one off great games), outkicked England in a storm, scraped an away win in Italy. And that was the peak of that team. Mainly Paterson and Blair dragging other players with them, with the help of a capable back row.

[Torquemada 1420]

And the opening French try came from an absurd squint throw at the lineout...

Let's not start this again. Lineouts are frequently squint just as scrum feeds are. Many refs (incorrectly) allow them to slide.

No-one lets knock-ons slide. And in this instance the mass of opinion is against you including former pros (e.g. Nichol and Foode) who stated the officials robbed France. End of.

[JM2K6]

And the opening French try came from an absurd squint throw at the lineout...

Let's not start this again. Lineouts are frequently squint just as scrum feeds are. Many refs (incorrectly) allow them to slide.

No-one lets knock-ons slide. And in this instance the mass of opinion is against you including former pros (e.g. Nichol and Foode) who stated the officials robbed France. End of.

Refs do not let lineouts like that slide. The scrum is a totally different story - lineouts are simply not refereed the same way. It was an egregious error completely at odds with how the game is reffed in every professional match, and your claim was immediately proven wrong in the same match (and basically every following match).

French whining about the ref is thoroughly undermined when you fail to accept the one big call that went your way and led to a try. Simple as that!

[Ovals]

And the opening French try came from an absurd squint throw at the lineout...

Let's not start this again. Lineouts are frequently squint just as scrum feeds are. Many refs (incorrectly) allow them to slide.

No-one lets knock-ons slide. And in this instance the mass of opinion is against you including former pros (e.g. Nichol and Foode) who stated the officials robbed France. End of.

[Ymx]

Oh no they’ve started again.

[Ovals]

Oh no they’ve started again.

Imagine how much whining there's going to be on the match thread for Ireland v France - with an English ref

[C69]

Oh no they’ve started again.

Imagine how much whining there's going to be on the match thread for Ireland v France - with an English ref

That was born in Wales