Tier 2 Nations in AIs

[Biffer]

Not certain but this seems a better spread of games for Tier 2 countries than in past years?

Vs Tier 1
USA v New Zealand
USA v Ireland
Scotland v Tonga
Spain v Italy
England v Tonga
France v Georgia
Wales v Fiji
Italy v Uruguay

Vs each other
Romania v Uruguay
Spain v Fiji
Tonga v Uruguay
Romania v Tonga
Spain v Samoa

Plus the BaaBaas v Samoa at Twickenham. USA no doubt paying through the nose, but Tonga and Spain seem to be really well scheduled, Uruguay a good set, Samoa and Fiji a game short and Georgia lacking a couple of games. Georgia and Fiji playing each other in the South of France on 20th November would seem a logical addition if someone could get a bit of sponsorship together for them. I'd like to see World Rugby finding a way to support all the Tier 2 teams being in Europe for three weeks in November. Stick some Friday night games on the night before some of the headline internationals and such.

[tabascoboy]

In past years there have been some tours in late autumn such as Hong Kong to Europe and Portugal to South America but I guess COVID's messed up things like that

[assfly]

Is there a reason why Namibia never seem to tour or get any games during the Autumn window?

[Sandstorm]

Romania v Uruguay
Spain v Fiji
Tonga v Uruguay
Romania v Tonga
Spain v Samoa

I'd like to see World Rugby finding a way to support all the Tier 2 teams being in Europe for three weeks in November. Stick some Friday night games on the night before some of the headline internationals and such.

I'd pay a tenner to go watch the above matches at smaller stadiums like The Stoop, Welford Road or Select Car Leasing Stadium Reading on a Friday evening.

[Biffer]

Is there a reason why Namibia never seem to tour or get any games during the Autumn window?

I don't know, but I'd guess money.

[tabascoboy]

Is there a reason why Namibia never seem to tour or get any games during the Autumn window?

Namibia did have a short tour of Europe in November 2018 ( Russia, Spain Portugal ). World Cup in 2019 and COVID in 2020 since then, they don't seem to have anything for this Nov/Dec

[assfly]

Ah yes, you're both probably right. Seems a shame, as the second best team on the continent you'd think they'd get more opportunities away from the usual Africa Gold Cup.

[Biffer]

Romania v Uruguay
Spain v Fiji
Tonga v Uruguay
Romania v Tonga
Spain v Samoa

I'd like to see World Rugby finding a way to support all the Tier 2 teams being in Europe for three weeks in November. Stick some Friday night games on the night before some of the headline internationals and such.

I'd pay a tenner to go watch the above matches at smaller stadiums like The Stoop, Welford Road or Select Car Leasing Stadium Reading on a Friday evening.

Exactly. Or at the Arms Park, RDS, Minifield the night before an AI. Absolutely certain you'd get a decent crowd if it's priced in that kind of region.

[tabascoboy]

I know Wales staged a couple of neutral matches in Colwyn Bay many years ago featuring touring sides I think, trying to promote the game in the north. Think they were reasonably well attended.

Looking it up, one of those was Canada vs Namibia ( 17 - 13 to the Canucks)

[tabascoboy]

Spanish media reports Samoa cancelled their November tour due to Covid restrictions in NZ/Aus stopping too many players. That means matches with Spain & Georgia cancelled, but apparently could still play Barbarians Twickenham fixture. Not officially confirmed though

[Yr Alban]

I know Wales staged a couple of neutral matches in Colwyn Bay many years ago featuring touring sides I think, trying to promote the game in the north. Think they were reasonably well attended.

Looking it up, one of those was Canada vs Namibia ( 17 - 13 to the Canucks)

Must have missed that. Parc Eirias is only 15 min from my house.

The Wales U21 matches always draw a decent crowd there too (though granted I’ve only personally attended when they were playing v Scotland)

[tabascoboy]

Not strictly speaking AIs but rather than have a separate thread...

Two narrow victories for the North American nations in the Rugby World Cup Qualifiers this weekend that leaves the matches very intriguingly poised for the return games south of the equator.

USA 19 - 16 Uruguay ( this game gives direct qualification as Americas to the winners )
Canada 22 - 21 Chile ( gives direct qualification as Americas 2 to the winners )

Could Chile make the finals for the first time?

[Sinkers]

Seriously wtf has happened to Canada?

[tabascoboy]

Seriously wtf has happened to Canada?

I don't know but up until about 5 years ago I recognized at least half of the names in the Canucks roster, now it's more like only 1 or 2.

[Biffer]

Not strictly speaking AIs but rather than have a separate thread...

Two narrow victories for the North American nations in the Rugby World Cup Qualifiers this weekend that leaves the matches very intriguingly poised for the return games south of the equator.

USA 19 - 16 Uruguay ( this game gives direct qualification as Americas to the winners )
Canada 22 - 21 Chile ( gives direct qualification as Americas 2 to the winners )

Could Chile make the finals for the first time?

Long way to go - if they win the tie, they play the loser of the USA v Uruguay tie, and winning that gets them into the repechage.

Edit - appears I got that wrong. If they win the tie against the loser of USA v Uruguay, they qualify. Loser of that tie to the repechage, along with an African team, a European team and an Asia-PAC team.

[tabascoboy]

Not strictly speaking AIs but rather than have a separate thread...

Two narrow victories for the North American nations in the Rugby World Cup Qualifiers this weekend that leaves the matches very intriguingly poised for the return games south of the equator.

USA 19 - 16 Uruguay ( this game gives direct qualification as Americas to the winners )
Canada 22 - 21 Chile ( gives direct qualification as Americas 2 to the winners )

Could Chile make the finals for the first time?

Long way to go - if they win the tie, they play the loser of the USA v Uruguay tie, and winning that gets them into the repechage.

Edit - appears I got that wrong. If they win the tie against the loser of USA v Uruguay, they qualify. Loser of that tie to the repechage, along with an African team, a European team and an Asia-PAC team.

( gives direct qualification as Americas 2 to the winners )

And I got that bit wrong!

[Paddington Bear]

Seriously wtf has happened to Canada?

Very sad decline. Couldn’t hack the transfer to professionalism and seems like the sport has been slowly dying there since

[Niegs]

Seriously wtf has happened to Canada?

Very sad decline. Couldn’t hack the transfer to professionalism and seems like the sport has been slowly dying there since

My not fully informed, biased opinion is that our big wigs continually focus on a narrower and narrower group of athletes while the grassroots game and whatever else falls in between suffers.

If any Canucks think these aren't reasons or I'm missing anything, happy for them to correct me: 14 Super League (1998-2008) teams go down to 4 regional teams. Fewer sides per club, clubs merging, school programs dropping off, a few 'have' schools dominating (others falling off and/or not giving the good schools competition to get any better), junior rep sides picking from the ones with money who turn up rather than properly scouting and developing genuine potential talent. I hear from friends who coach school and post-secondary that the bounce back from Covid hasn't fully happened yet, and for secondary schools, next spring doesn't even look good.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Romania v Uruguay
Spain v Fiji
Tonga v Uruguay
Romania v Tonga
Spain v Samoa

I'd like to see World Rugby finding a way to support all the Tier 2 teams being in Europe for three weeks in November. Stick some Friday night games on the night before some of the headline internationals and such.

I'd pay a tenner to go watch the above matches at smaller stadiums like The Stoop, Welford Road or Select Car Leasing Stadium Reading on a Friday evening.

Exactly. Or at the Arms Park, RDS, Minifield the night before an AI. Absolutely certain you'd get a decent crowd if it's priced in that kind of region.

Does that actually help Tier 2 nations though? That's very likely going to raise less money than they'd get at home, disenfranchise their fans from watching them, and give them additional travel costs just to round out the penalty

[Paddington Bear]

I'd pay a tenner to go watch the above matches at smaller stadiums like The Stoop, Welford Road or Select Car Leasing Stadium Reading on a Friday evening.

Exactly. Or at the Arms Park, RDS, Minifield the night before an AI. Absolutely certain you'd get a decent crowd if it's priced in that kind of region.

Does that actually help Tier 2 nations though? That's very likely going to raise less money than they'd get at home, disenfranchise their fans from watching them, and give them additional travel costs just to round out the penalty

Very few of them draw 10,000+ for their home games regularly, assuming there's equitable splits of the gate it should work.

[tabascoboy]

Spain's games will be at the Estadio Central de la UCM, Madrid, which has a capacity of just over 12 000. All things being well with minimal COVID restrictions I would think the Fiji game could get 10 000. Still looks as if the Samoa Europe mini tour has been cancelled though as the game is no longer in Ferugby's list of fixtures.

Also Spain vs Italy is actually vs Italy 'A'.

As an aside the Spain U18 team recently trounced Romania in the U18 European Championships...

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Exactly. Or at the Arms Park, RDS, Minifield the night before an AI. Absolutely certain you'd get a decent crowd if it's priced in that kind of region.

Does that actually help Tier 2 nations though? That's very likely going to raise less money than they'd get at home, disenfranchise their fans from watching them, and give them additional travel costs just to round out the penalty

Very few of them draw 10,000+ for their home games regularly, assuming there's equitable splits of the gate it should work.

At £10 a ticket?

Just how poor do you think Romanians and Spaniards are?

[Paddington Bear]

Does that actually help Tier 2 nations though? That's very likely going to raise less money than they'd get at home, disenfranchise their fans from watching them, and give them additional travel costs just to round out the penalty

Very few of them draw 10,000+ for their home games regularly, assuming there's equitable splits of the gate it should work.

At £10 a ticket?

Just how poor do you think Romanians and Spaniards are?

I don't think they are, I know Romania very well. I also know that their home crowds are nothing to write home about so the odd game in front of a larger one may well be appealing.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Very few of them draw 10,000+ for their home games regularly, assuming there's equitable splits of the gate it should work.

At £10 a ticket?

Just how poor do you think Romanians and Spaniards are?

I don't think they are, I know Romania very well. I also know that their home crowds are nothing to write home about so the odd game in front of a larger one may well be appealing.

They got 6,000 for Argentina, they could (would) have had 30k but for Covid restrictions and had they used Stadionul Steaua, and not at £10 a ticket. Most of their games will not use Steaua and have a capacity of say 8k (maybe 9) but again at more than £10 a ticket. And in the scenario they come to play matches at RDS or Welford Road there was talk of splitting gate receipts, which could in effect draw comparisons with tickets at £5 a pop.

I'm not saying the idea is wholly unworkable, but the idea as stated isn't going to help Tier 2 nations, and almost certainly would penalise them further

[Paddington Bear]

At £10 a ticket?

Just how poor do you think Romanians and Spaniards are?

I don't think they are, I know Romania very well. I also know that their home crowds are nothing to write home about so the odd game in front of a larger one may well be appealing.

They got 6,000 for Argentina, they could (would) have had 30k but for Covid restrictions and had they used Stadionul Steaua, and not at £10 a ticket. Most of their games will not use Steaua and have a capacity of say 8k (maybe 9) but again at more than £10 a ticket. And in the scenario they come to play matches at RDS or Welford Road there was talk of splitting gate receipts, which could in effect draw comparisons with tickets at £5 a pop.

I'm not saying the idea is wholly unworkable, but the idea as stated isn't going to help Tier 2 nations, and almost certainly would penalise them further

New stadium in Bucharest looks nice as well.

They're not the only example here though - would say Canada/Namibia/PIs etc be more interested? I'd guess yes.

[tabascoboy]

Jesus, what the hell are those jerseys?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't think they are, I know Romania very well. I also know that their home crowds are nothing to write home about so the odd game in front of a larger one may well be appealing.

They got 6,000 for Argentina, they could (would) have had 30k but for Covid restrictions and had they used Stadionul Steaua, and not at £10 a ticket. Most of their games will not use Steaua and have a capacity of say 8k (maybe 9) but again at more than £10 a ticket. And in the scenario they come to play matches at RDS or Welford Road there was talk of splitting gate receipts, which could in effect draw comparisons with tickets at £5 a pop.

I'm not saying the idea is wholly unworkable, but the idea as stated isn't going to help Tier 2 nations, and almost certainly would penalise them further

New stadium in Bucharest looks nice as well.

They're not the only example here though - would say Canada/Namibia/PIs etc be more interested? I'd guess yes.

Namibia, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji seem more likely to benefit when they have even less in the way of stadia and home games to charge for. Though Spain and Romania were listed in the original idea.

I'm not sure actually what you'd need to charge to cover costs at somewhere like Welford Road, it's a nice idea to drop tickets down to £10, but you might end up with remarkably Iittle profit even for a full-house, if any, especially when covering off travel costs. I'm all for helping the tier 2 nations, I'm just not sure charity at the level of some beer tokens is especially useful. I guess if we stood the costs of hiring somewhere like the RDS or Kingsholm (facilities, energy and staff) and then let the tier 2 nations split the gates that would be something.

It'd surely be more useful to actually send an England or France side to play in Spain, Canada, Georgia and what have you. They'd love an England even during a BiL summer when it might in effect be England A. But we're rather protective of the Tier 1nations, and unless we're willing to do something that costs the Tier 1 nations, whether taking a smaller slice of the pie or opening the fixture lists up, we're not going to help much. Difficult to see any shift from the status quo wherein Tier 1 nations spending their time playing with each other

[tabascoboy]

Looks like Uruguay have got their place in the RWC finals, narrowly losing the first leg away 19 - 16 to the Eagles, they are 34 - 15 up in their home leg with about a quarter hour left

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/watch-live

[tabascoboy]

Canada goooonnneeee from the RWC.

Chile 33 - 24 Canada (54-46 ON AGGREGATE)

First ever win for Chile over Canada. They will meet USA home-and-away next year, for the Americas 2 slot

[boere wors]

Canada goooonnneeee from the RWC.

Chile 33 - 24 Canada (54-46 ON AGGREGATE)

First ever win for Chile over Canada. They will meet USA home-and-away next year, for the Americas 2 slot

That is quite the upset, first ever RWC without Canada.

[Paddington Bear]

Strikes me as potentially the best thing to happen for Canada. Can't escape the issue now and ought to lead to significant change. Remarkable drop off particularly since the 90s but even in the last decade or so. Hope it's rectifiable.

Fascinating to think that in 2011 Japan clinched a last gasp draw against Canada and thought it a great result, how their fortunes have diverged.

[clydecloggie]

As rotten as it is for Canada, it's great for rugby to have new nations making a real case for a RWC spot.

Would be great if Chile beat USA next year and claimed that Americas 2 spot.

[assfly]

Africa qualifiers are to be played in France next year.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/france-t ... ualifiers/

This has pissed off a lot of the teams who would have wanted the games to be played across the continent.

[tabascoboy]

A bit late to post it but an interesting video

[assfly]

Kenya heading down to SA to play a few games. Great to see them finally get some decent matches under their belt.

[Slick]

Africa qualifiers are to be played in France next year.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/france-t ... ualifiers/

This has pissed off a lot of the teams who would have wanted the games to be played across the continent.

So it should piss them off.

[tabascoboy]

Italy A squad for Spain tomorrow, just 4 players with full caps. Spain selection not announced yet but the training squad seemingly had fewer than normal players based in France than usual so maybe due to the game being played outside the window...

15 Ange CAPUOZZO (Rugby Grenoble)
14 Jacopo TRULLA (Zebre Parma, 7 caps)*
13 Tommaso MENONCELLO (Benetton Rugby)*
12 Filippo DRAGO (Mogliano Rugby 1969/Benetton Rugby)*
11 Simone GESI (HBS Colorno)
10 Leonardo MARIN (Benetton Rugby)*
9 Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Parma, 21 caps)*
8 Riccardo FAVRETTO (Benetton Rugby, 1 cap)*
7 Lorenzo CANNONE (Benetton Rugby)*
6 Giovanni PETTINELLI (Benetton Rubgy)* - capitano
5 Andrea ZAMBONIN (Zebre Parma)*
4 Leonard KRUMOV (Zebre Parma)*
3 Jacobus Christoffel SWANEPOEL (FEMI-CZ Rovigo)
2 Epalahame FAIVA (Benetton Rugby)
1 Cherif TRAORE’ (Benetton Rugby, 11 caps)*

A disposizione
16 Giacomo NICOTERA (FEMI-CZ Rovigo/Benetton Rugby)
17 Damiano BOREAN (Petrarca Padova)
18 Ion NECULAI (Zebre Parma)*
19 Matteo CANALI (Petrarca Rugby)*
20 Alessandro IZEKOR (Rugby Transvecta Calvisano)
21 Nicolò CASILIO (Zebre Parma)*
22 Giacomo DA RE (FEMI-CZ Rovigo/Benetton Rugby)*
23 Enrico LUCCHIN (Zebre Parma)*

[Torquemada 1420]

Seriously wtf has happened to Canada?

Focused too much on 7s.

[sturginho]

Italy A squad for Spain tomorrow, just 4 players with full caps. Spain selection not announced yet but the training squad seemingly had fewer than normal players based in France than usual so maybe due to the game being played outside the window...

15 Ange CAPUOZZO (Rugby Grenoble)
14 Jacopo TRULLA (Zebre Parma, 7 caps)*
13 Tommaso MENONCELLO (Benetton Rugby)*
12 Filippo DRAGO (Mogliano Rugby 1969/Benetton Rugby)*
11 Simone GESI (HBS Colorno)
10 Leonardo MARIN (Benetton Rugby)*
9 Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Parma, 21 caps)*
8 Riccardo FAVRETTO (Benetton Rugby, 1 cap)*
7 Lorenzo CANNONE (Benetton Rugby)*
6 Giovanni PETTINELLI (Benetton Rubgy)* - capitano
5 Andrea ZAMBONIN (Zebre Parma)*
4 Leonard KRUMOV (Zebre Parma)*
3 Jacobus Christoffel SWANEPOEL (FEMI-CZ Rovigo)
2 Epalahame FAIVA (Benetton Rugby)
1 Cherif TRAORE’ (Benetton Rugby, 11 caps)*

A disposizione
16 Giacomo NICOTERA (FEMI-CZ Rovigo/Benetton Rugby)
17 Damiano BOREAN (Petrarca Padova)
18 Ion NECULAI (Zebre Parma)*
19 Matteo CANALI (Petrarca Rugby)*
20 Alessandro IZEKOR (Rugby Transvecta Calvisano)
21 Nicolò CASILIO (Zebre Parma)*
22 Giacomo DA RE (FEMI-CZ Rovigo/Benetton Rugby)*
23 Enrico LUCCHIN (Zebre Parma)*

Spagna: 15 John W. Bell, 14 Joan Losada, 13 Richard Stewart, 12 Alvar Guimeno, 11 Gauthier Minguillon, 10 Bautista Guemes, 9 Kerman Aurrekoetxea, 8 Kalokalo Gavidi, 7 Brice Ferrer, 6 Facundo Domínguez, 5 Victor Sanchez, 4 Kawa Leauma, 3 Jon Zabala, 2 Santiago Ovejero, 1 Fernando Lopez (c).
A disposizione: 16 Bastien Dedieu, 17 Pablo Meijmolle, 18 Bittor Abiotiz, 19 David Barrera, 20 Michael Hogg, 21 Facundo Munilla, 22 Javier Carrion, 23 Federico Castiglioni

[tabascoboy]

... Georgia and Fiji playing each other in the South of France on 20th November would seem a logical addition if someone could get a bit of sponsorship together for them....

Well such a game has been arranged now but they will be playing in Aranjuez, Spain on the 20th November at El Estadio Municipal El Deleite which has a capacity of only 5 000 but selling all tickets shouldn't be a problem.